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Disclosing Age Demographic Before Booking


SWLinPHX

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Yeah, well then you didn't read it very well. As I stated before the demographic is already in their system and a child's spreadsheet program could figure it out. Do you think they sit there with an abacus or head count in 2010? I'm assuming since you are on a computer you realize it is no effort and is already known. We've discussed this and (if you've read the last 10 posts or so) no one else could understand what kind of comparison you were trying to make about your personal information vs. what we are discussing. Of course you are welcome to discuss the topic of this thread, but you had taken it into a whole crazy area with pedophiles and your God-given rights, etc. If you're now on the same page with us all then great! :)

 

The demographic may already be in the system, but it would still take the resources of at lest one person to collate, update, and issue to all affected parties. That would cost.

 

No, not an abacus, just someone who knows what they are doing. In light of the many complaints posted on these boards about other issues where Head Office has failed to accurately update staff further down the line, how much faith could you put in the analysis anyway?

 

Let's forget about calling my ideas crazy, just because you don't agree with them. Some of what you called "rambling on" was an attempt to explain them, but you weren't interested.

 

God-given rights? No. Legislated rights in my country. Let's leave God out of it, too.

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We were among the youngest, but there were a few people younger than us. It was not a big deal for us; the type of activities we enjoy while cruising such as lively conversations at dinner, having a few drinks at the martini bar or molecular bar, doing some of the activities such as trivia or sports games at the Lawn Club, playing poker, watching the Hot Glass show etc. are not dependent on age.

 

Of course, you're a couple. But if you were single and with a divorced buddy of yours, would you find a chance for any romantic interests or appeal regardless of age? I guess there's the whole "cougar" thing, but having only couples would be just as disappointing to me too. I want a mix; diversity, but I've beaten that horse to death by now.

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The demographic may already be in the system, but it would still take the resources of at lest one person to collate, update, and issue to all affected parties. That would cost.

 

No, not an abacus, just someone who knows what they are doing. In light of the many complaints posted on these boards about other issues where Head Office has failed to accurately update staff further down the line, how much faith could you put in the analysis anyway?

 

Let's forget about calling my ideas crazy, just because you don't agree with them. Some of what you called "rambling on" was an attempt to explain them, but you weren't interested.

 

God-given rights? No. Legislated rights in my country. Let's leave God out of it, too.

 

Except that your "legislated rights" have absolutely nothing to do with what we are saying, as so many on here have patiently tried to explain to you over and over ad nauseam. Honestly, if you tell someone over and over and they still don't understand their rights or the topic at hand, it becomes useless after a while.

 

And I'm sorry, but if you don't understand how painfully simple it is to compile information (they already do) about 2 or 3 thousand passengers on a ship and draw an age demographic, then that is another whole topic in "Computers 101" that doesn't belong here either. Taking hotel reservations is more complex than that -- this discussion forum is more complex than that. It is a matter of not wanting us to know... not expense, not difficulty, not rights, not all the other things you were talking about.

 

Let's lay this to rest now, okay?

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Are singles cruises considered chartered and more expensive for that reason though? After all, it is younger people and singles that probably don't have the extra money or disposable income to spend. If not, then maybe I should consider that. However, I like meeting couples and people of all ages too, but if the only choice is all seniors and/or couples only, then maybe I will try that.

 

I'd guess some chartered, expensive singles cruises with special activities. based on your posts, that might not be your thing. I wondered if some of the other forums here on cruise critic might be able to suggest which lines and itineraries might offer tend to offer a passenger mix that appeals to you. Also might have tips on better deals if you book solo. There is a singles cruises forum and also a solo cruisers forum. Probably more diversity on the latter. http://boards.cruisecritic.com/forumdisplay.php?f=373

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:(

I'd guess some chartered, expensive singles cruises with special activities. based on your posts, that might not be your thing. I wondered if some of the other forums here on cruise critic might be able to suggest which lines and itineraries might offer tend to offer a passenger mix that appeals to you. Also might have tips on better deals if you book solo. There is a singles cruises forum and also a solo cruisers forum. Probably more diversity on the latter. http://boards.cruisecritic.com/forumdisplay.php?f=373

 

Actually, it's usually more expensive to book solo right, usually 150% or more? That may be why the majority are couples or families, although for me it has always been traveling with a friend. I do know they have singles cabins now with no surcharge on ships like Norwegian Epic.

 

"Solo Cruisers" implies traveling by yourself though, right? There are people that travel with friends who aren't big families, couples or seniors. A lot of people in this forum seem to assume cruising is for a certain type of people (them) and cannot or do not want to put themselves in anyone else's shoes. I would do a singles cruise if it wasn't costing me extra, sure. I should not have to pay more than others just to meet people my own age. I guess people who are older and/or couples only care about what they want and are happy with the way it is because it suits them and that's all that matters. I love Celebrity though, and two back-to-back shorter cruises may be just the thing. Wish I'd thought of it sooner, oh well.

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Except that your "legislated rights" have absolutely nothing to do with what we are saying, as so many on here have patiently tried to explain to you over and over ad nauseam. Honestly, if you tell someone over and over and they still don't understand their rights or the topic at hand, it becomes useless after a while.

 

And I'm sorry, but if you don't understand how painfully simple it is to compile information (they already do) about 2 or 3 thousand passengers on a ship and draw an age demographic, then that is another whole topic in "Computers 101" that doesn't belong here either. Taking hotel reservations is more complex than that -- this discussion forum is more complex than that. It is a matter of not wanting us to know... not expense, not difficulty, not rights, not all the other things you were talking about.

 

Let's lay this to rest now, okay?

 

I understand about computers and spreadsheets. I work with them. I also understand about human error. I work with that, too.

 

Were you trying to put me down by implying that I am at Computer101 level? Sure seems like it.

 

The cruise lines will not issue the information you want, not because they don't want you to know, but because there is no profit for them in doing so.

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I understand about computers and spreadsheets. I work with them. I also understand about human error. I work with that, too.

 

Well by all means if you have so little faith in a huge corporations ability to compile data that they already have in their databanks, the definitely don't trust them to book your reservation correctly, handle your needs on board or even command a huge ocean liner because I mean, they "might" make a mistake! But then, running a huge ship and corporation and sea vessel is a lot easier than some numbers in a routine database. I mean, come on, seriously; where are you going with this? ?You're all over the place.

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.. it's usually more expensive to book solo right, usually 150% or more? That may be why the majority are couples or families, although for me it has always been traveling with a friend. I do know they have singles cabins now with no surcharge on ships like Norwegian Epic."Solo Cruisers" implies traveling by yourself though, right? There are people that travel with friends who aren't big families, couples or seniors. A lot of people in this forum seem to assume cruising is for a certain type of people (them) and cannot or do not want to put themselves in anyone else's shoes. I would do a singles cruise if it wasn't costing me extra, sure. I should not have to pay more than others just to meet people my own age. I guess people who are older and/or couples only care about what they want and are happy with the way it is because it suits them and that's all that matters. I love Celebrity though, and two back-to-back shorter cruises may be just the thing. Wish I'd thought of it sooner, oh well.[/font][/size][/color]

well, lots of people everywhere are poor at seeing things from another person's vantage. Not unique to these forums. I caught the reference to your divorsed friend after I mentioned the solos forum. I am glad you have a friend to share a cabin, as those single supplement fares would be painful. No doubt traveling with a friend makes the solo forum less relevant. I might read it if I were in your shoes as they might have some insights about passenger mix and meeting diverse people.

I think I understand and respect your point of view on the demographic info. I also respect posters who selectively ignore certain posts or phrases. Can you, please?

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Well by all means if you have so little faith in a huge corporations ability to compile data that they already have in their databanks, the definitely don't trust them to book your reservation correctly, handle your needs on board or even command a huge ocean liner because I mean, they "might" make a mistake! But then, running a huge ship and corporation and sea vessel is a lot easier than some numbers in a routine database. I mean, come on, seriously; where are you going with this? ?You're all over the place.

 

OK. To summarise, from my perspective:

 

 

  1. I do not want my personal data released without my permission.
  2. I understand that you (and others) are only wanting generalized, collated data released and that this does not violate my personal freedoms.
  3. I see some possible dangers in the release of even generalized data. You do not. We agree to differ.
  4. The cruise lines are unlikely to release this data, for a variety of reasons, including that it might put some people off cruising, that it might cost more to employ someone to collate and issue the data, and that there is no profit for them in doing so anyway.
  5. Even if the cruise lines did issue this data, it is unlikely to be up-to-date or accurate, because of failure to input data, human error, and poor communication between Head Office and down-line agents and staff. Examples of this (gleaned from CC boards) include b2b cruises not linked, pre-cruise purchases ordered but not delivered or delivered to the wrong place, pre-paid gratuities not credited to a passenger's account, and the apparent inability of ships to correct mistakes on board "because it's the weekend and we can't contact Head Office until Monday".

That summarizes the progression of my posts. I don't believe they are "all over the place".

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But if you were single and with a divorced buddy of yours, would you find a chance for any romantic interests or appeal regardless of age?

 

If I was single I would have been making the moves on the staff at the spa; there were some hotties there. :D

 

On a more serious note, if I was single and interested in "romantic interests" on a cruise, Celebrity would not be my line of choice; I'd likely be on RCI or Carnival. However even on those lines there are generally not a lot of singles. Definitely younger average age, but most people still travelling with a spouse/significant other. When I was single I did look into doing an organized singles cruise; yet you pay a premium, but you are guaranteed to have lots of singles and organized activities to meet them.

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Uh, actually it is true. If you are so confident as to deny facts then you might care to elaborate.

 

Okay, maybe this will help:

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/articles.cfm?ID=1164#celebrity

 

http://www.fodors.com/cruises/celebrity-cruises-676542/noteworthy-624/

 

http://cruises.lovetoknow.com/wiki/Celebrity_Cruises

 

 

Perhaps you'd like to provide some sources for your definition? I notice you haven't, even though you've asked for mine.

 

 

Ahhhh, well then that's where my problem is. I didn't realize the only option was everyone senior citizen or else "young, pushy, Gen Y passengers and their kids." Imagine all this time I didn't realize there weren't any other choices besides those. Thanks for enlightening me, you're so very wise! :D

 

 

Funny, I don't recall saying these were the only two choices. I was only relating my experience and giving my opinion, which is what you asked for.....right? In fact, you said, "How many of you are single and would want to be on a cruise with only people much older?" And again, later, "I'm curious how many young singles wouldn't agree with me."

 

But I guess you're not really interested in gathering opinions......unless they agree with yours....

 

 

 

 

See above. By the way, sarcasm is an affectation that becomes increasingly less attractive as one matures.

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On a more serious note, if I was single and interested in "romantic interests" on a cruise, Celebrity would not be my line of choice; I'd likely be on RCI or Carnival. However even on those lines there are generally not a lot of singles. Definitely younger average age, but most people still travelling with a spouse/significant other. When I was single I did look into doing an organized singles cruise; yet you pay a premium, but you are guaranteed to have lots of singles and organized activities to meet them.

 

Right, well then you see how it may be of no concern or of no thought to someone coupled or older. But I just found the intolerance for someone to dare have interests other than senior cruising, families or couples to be very unwelcoming. It's as if you should be punished or pay a higher price or just not cruise. It just didn't come off as "all-inclusive" by any means, and instead of taking a second to understand that people are in different situations, I was met with the attitude that "you must hate old people!" or "how elitist!" or "it works for us so you should shut up and not try to present others' points of view!" Maybe the tone is friendlier in the singles (not solos) section, but it has been years since I first used this forum so I was unprepared for the backlash at people who have different needs. Is this forum mostly for seniors and couples and families? If so I apologize for once again, being in the wrong place. They are for sure the majority, but that is a different issue. Handicap people are the minority too, but we go out of our way to accommodate them (even on cruises).

 

Hmmm... What made me think being out of place in a demographic would be anything but welcoming? Maybe the reaction here? :confused:

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I do not want my personal data released without my permission.

 

Good, because it wouldn't involve any personal data; no problem there.

 

I understand that you (and others) are only wanting generalized, collated data released and that this does not violate my personal freedoms.

 

Well it sounded like you completely did not understand that, to me and many others.

 

I see some possible dangers in the release of even generalized data. You do not. We agree to differ.

 

No, if you can show no good account of "danger" than it is not about agreeing, it is about having no factual basis or even remotely as dangerous as everyday things we encounter anywhere. It came off as paranoid and you made no case for how it is "dangerous". Your examples are what sounded ludicrous and damaged credibility. Go back and read others' reactions to them, not just mine.

 

The cruise lines are unlikely to release this data, for a variety of reasons, including that it might put some people off cruising, that it might cost more to employ someone to collate and issue the data, and that there is no profit for them in doing so anyway.

 

I said over and over it is probably not in their best interest, or at least they expect not. But I also showed how it would be for passengers and how it could actually help cruise lines gain passenger confidence, and bookings.

 

Even if the cruise lines did issue this data, it is unlikely to be up-to-date or accurate, because of failure to input data, human error, and poor communication between Head Office and down-line agents and staff. Examples of this (gleaned from CC boards) include b2b cruises not linked, pre-cruise purchases ordered but not delivered or delivered to the wrong place, pre-paid gratuities not credited to a passenger's account, and the apparent inability of ships to correct mistakes on board "because it's the weekend and we can't contact Head Office until Monday".

 

That's where you lost me. I said over and over there are clerical mistakes in life. So we should not provide data because there's a chance that occasionally it may be inaccurate or not up to date? Why provide any data about anything at all (until humans are infallible that is)? Having that info and maybe having their records not be as updated occasionally is somehow worse than being left in the dark? Not.

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My guess: if you are taking a 10 day Celebrity cruise from FL in late January, I think you should expect an older crowd.

On my first X cruise there were many middle aged people, but that was shortly after 9/11, and cancellations probably alter that demographic. Since then when schools were in session, I have seen lots of seniors, fair number of middle aged, some young adults, few school age children, few pre-school children.

Just a guess because the cruise line will not publish the data.

If you want a younger crowd, select shorter cruises. You would likely see more diverse ages taking 2 back to back 5 day cruises than on a ten day cruise. also think about the cruise line, X tends to draw an older crowd than her sister line Royal Caribbean.

 

Have a great cruise. I'd love to be on that one ( I am perfectly fine with an older crowd).

 

My first impulse was to disagree with you, since we always cruise the Caribbean in Jan. or Feb. to escape the nasty cold weather here. Then it occurred to me that I am the older demographic! LOL!

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If I were in your shoes as they might have some insights about passenger mix and meeting diverse people.

 

I think I understand and respect your point of view on the demographic info. I also respect posters who selectively ignore certain posts or phrases. Can you, please?

 

Agreed, but how many posts now have I said "enough" or "can we please move on". You can see the tone goes into the proper place and back on track and then some of these people come back with nasty tones to start something up again.

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Well I've been reading this thread since yesterday. Sometimes it doesn't matter what you say or ask..people will agree to disagree in regards to almost any topic.

The one person I saw who might have answered your question to the best of their knowledge, I believe is right about Celebrity mostly consisting of older people/couples. It would be nice also if they did have an age demographic because as a 25 year old single I wouldn't want to get on a ship, go dancing and realize that either nobody is in there or it's older people I can't really relate too..I like to dance to more modern also not so much disco. lol. But with that being said, sometimes you just have to take your chances, sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't. But I do understand what you mean...a lot of folks here on cruise critic are married or older but not everyone..guess your answers just depended on who saw your thread and wanted to answer.

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Okay, maybe this will help:

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/articles...1164#celebrity

 

http://www.fodors.com/cruises/celebr...oteworthy-624/

 

http://cruises.lovetoknow.com/wiki/Celebrity_Cruises

 

 

Perhaps you'd like to provide some sources for your definition? I notice you haven't, even though you've asked for mine.

 

Had you explained what you meant instead of just bluntly saying "you're wrong" and then leaving it at that it would be different. What I said about Christ and Christmas and the "X" is not wrong. If you are saying that I said the brothers used the X (the Greek letter "chi") for Christ in their cruise line then you misunderstood me. I was making two statements: 1) It was a Greek cruise line and that is why they used the "X" and there are still mostly Greek captains. And 2) That the backlash about the term "Xmas" was unfounded and based on ignorance. You sounded as if you were saying I was wrong about those two statements.

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Well I've been reading this thread since yesterday. Sometimes it doesn't matter what you say or ask..people will agree to disagree in regards to almost any topic.

The one person I saw who might have answered your question to the best of their knowledge, I believe is right about Celebrity mostly consisting of older people/couples. It would be nice also if they did have an age demographic because as a 25 year old single I wouldn't want to get on a ship, go dancing and realize that either nobody is in there or it's older people I can't really relate too..I like to dance to more modern also not so much disco. lol. But with that being said, sometimes you just have to take your chances, sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't. But I do understand what you mean...a lot of folks here on cruise critic are married or older but not everyone..guess your answers just depended on who saw your thread and wanted to answer.

 

Thanks, I totally agree. The thing is I didn't expect people for whom this did not concern or apply to or were not interested to answer. I was asking people who could be of help (like many of you were, thanks!) and give me some insight. But what I did not expect was for those people it did not concern to not only answer but to start lashing out at me starting as early as Post #4. You can see the thread was totally civil and attempts were then made to steer it back in that direction over and over, only to have it digress into something unpleasant. How about people who have something to add or help answer, and those who can only be hostile or to whom the topic does not apply not answer?? Sounds good to me. :)

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I guess... depending on what you mean by that. If you're saying wanting to be around some people of your own generation and mindset is only for sex, then no. I think I've been painfully clear over the past 2 dozen posts though. If there is a part you don't understand I'd be happy to elaborate. Just tell me what you're referring to.

I wasn't referring to anything---just injecting a bit of levity into the discussion. I really would not care one way or another if the cruise lines were to release the type of information you seek.

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I wasn't referring to anything---just injecting a bit of levity into the discussion. I really would not care one way or another if the cruise lines were to release the type of information you seek.

 

Oh okay, gotcha; Lord knows we can use some levity here. Wasn't trying to accuse you but in the midst of fielding jabs it is hard to know who is joking sometimes, LOL. Actually, I'm a very nice guy that's great with all ages, and get along well with older people. I was just talking about being on a cruise with only a demographic completely different than your own, but I think by now most people understand that. :)

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Actually, StudMuffin, as per the Captain of Solstice, with whom I dined last week, the X of Celebrity is from the original owners of Celebrity Cruise Line, the Chandris family. He told us the CH of Chandris is where the X came from

 

While I understand your concerns, there have always been general rules for determining the age demographic of a cruise or cruise line. Most have been discussed here such as length of cruise, itinerary, time of year and so on. Longer itineraries always have a much higher demographic if you cruise from September through April, excluding holidays. If you take a Panama Canal cruise, you'll probably have a pretty high average age. If you cruise when school is in session, even the short cruises have a higher age demographic. Then you have the cruise lines themselves. No matter how the try and spin it, HAL and Celebrity do attract an older clientele, along with the luxury lines like Crystal, Seabourn and Silversea. So, I guess I'm saying that if a younger age demographic is your primary goal, then you need to stay with lines like Carnival, RCI, NCL----cruise when school is out like in summer or holidays---or take those party till you drop three and four day cruises.

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Actually, StudMuffin, as per the Captain of Solstice, with whom I dined last week, the X of Celebrity is from the original owners of Celebrity Cruise Line, the Chandris family. He told us the CH of Chandris is where the X came from

 

Yes I understand that. I wasn't saying that in the two statements I made above in Post #67. There is no disagreement on this issue, just miscommunication or misunderstanding.

 

No matter how the try and spin it, HAL and Celebrity do attract an older clientele, along with the luxury lines like Crystal, Seabourn and Silversea. So, I guess I'm saying that if a younger age demographic is your primary goal, then you need to stay with lines like Carnival, RCI, NCL----cruise when school is out like in summer or holidays---or take those party till you drop three and four day cruises.

 

Well no, I think it is extreme to say you want everyone to be older than you (seniors) or else you want college kids and to "party until you drop". Is it so hard for people to think in terms other than extremes?? I can't for the life of me see why what I've been saying over and over is hard to understand. I don't want all extremes and frankly, I would question anyone who doesn't want diversity. And I don't think you should have to go during crowded vacations when kiddies are onboard just so that you are not surrounded by only the geriatric set. My word, isn't there something in between these extremes? What about two 5- or 7-day back-to-backs on the same ship during cheap season (school in session)? I'm not looking for anyone who's still in school. I'm not that young!

 

I was under the impression that Celebrity was just RCCL with one step up (premium). Less kids but not necessarily a seniors line like Holland America and the luxury lines. Is Celebrity the same crowd as Holland America? I'll just have to go and find out I guess and if necessary, book two short back-to-backs next time.

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StudMuffin ask about the expected Demographics on a Celebrity cruise in late Jan. Well this is where some common cruise sense might provide a clue that it will be an older crowd. There are several factors including that most schools are in session and most parents don't pull school aged kids out of school in late Jan since its between two major holiday periods (when they do pull kids out of school). During the winter FL also swells with many snowbirds...quite a few of whom take advantage of cruise opportunities....so this adds to the aged demographic (remember that I am a senior so we think this is a good thing:). Celebrity also seems to be attracting an older group (similar to HA) because of its image (which we do not think is accurate). If you are traveling with kids on a cruise you are probably going to focus on the mega-ships of RCI or Princess or perhaps Disney. HA and X fall to the bottom of the list for many families. As to 10 day cruises, much depends on whether its over 2 weekends (attracts more younger cruisers) or requires nearly 2 weeks off of work (attracts more retired folks).

 

We could easily get into the discussion about where the "X" comes from, but it has been accurately explained that its simply from the name of the Chandris family. This story is often told on X cruises in the daily program.

 

Hank

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I was under the impression that Celebrity was just RCCL with one step up (premium). Less kids but not necessarily a seniors line like Holland America and the luxury lines. Is Celebrity the same crowd as Holland America? I'll just have to go and find out I guess and if necessary, book two short back-to-backs next time.

 

I think Royal Caribbean Incorporated is trying to give each of their brands certain image, so they tend to appeal to different passengers. I like both and sail both regularly, so I feel fairly comfortable with the differences. Royal Caribbean cruiseships are tend to be a bit larger. Their newer ships have features not found on Celebrity such as flow rider, ice skating, rock climbing walls, etc. I'm middle aged and have enjoyed all of the above, but those features seem to really draw active young people (preteen, teens, young adults). In contrast, the corporation seems to be trying to give Celebrity a bit more polished, more sedate, more upscale image. It is subjective, but I find the service on X to be a bit more attentive and refined, the ingredient quality seems a bit better. The menu choices a bit fancier. smoking policy is more restrictive.

 

I only cruised HAL once and that was several years ago. That time the age was much older. I think HAL has been trying to reach some newer cruisers before they become obsolete.

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I think Kitty 9 hit the nail on the head. The demographics will change with the time of the year and the destinations. The Berlitz Cruise book has a section for each ship called "Your Fellow Passengers", which gives a general taste for your fellow cruisers.

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