Birth Certificates- Be Aware, it's VERY particular!

[chicy724]

[quote name='misguidedangel']

Besides, anyone with a passort has a much quicker trip through customs...[/quote]

:) Unless you are going through customs to get back through to US from New Orleans. Took us 3-4 hrs to get ON the boat to go to Mexico but took us 2 minutes to get back into the US with the same documentation. Not even sure he really looked at it and saw what it was! I said it in a post previously on here- he looked at my stuff, glanced at his, asked if we were married, if we had alcohol and sent us on our way.

It's tougher to get OUT of the US than it is to get IN. :eek:

[B and C Blake]

[quote name='chicy724']Just to be clear-- it's not that we didn't *want* to spend the $110 or whatever it costs for a passport. We simply didn't have enough time once we realized it was best to have them.. and since we had what we were told and thought was required, we didn't worry about it.
We are starting the process once hubby's "state" bc arrives. Whether he can get one with his city issued one or not, we are waiting just because we KNOW that will work.

I understand that people think it's best to have a passport, but when people take closed loop cruises and they tell you that a birth certificate and DL is sufficient, many will not bother. Spending our hard earned money on a cruise or not- it is our individual choice whether we want a passport. I WANT a passport and now that I have the time before my next cruise, I will get one.
Otherwise, what everyone else does is not your or my choice. Until the day they require one for every itinerary, no matter where it starts or ends, people will slide by with the minimum... simply because they can. Some won't have time like myself, before they leave. Some just won't care to go above and beyond the minimum. Some may like the risk?! It's their own issue if that is what they do, and it is their business whether they don't want to spend the extra $$ on a passport.. and it is their business to deal with the consequences if they get stuck in port or if there is some other disaster that keeps them from returning to their home country.

And yes you are very correct that it is not cruise line employees who check documentation. I realized that once I asked them what happens to our $$ for cruise, excursions, extras, etc. and they told us we had to take that up with Carnival. They may wear cruise line shirts but they are not from the cruise line- which in my opinion is a good thing.[/QUOTE]

Chiccy

I was posting in reference to those who said they have used the same BC for all their other cruises. The requirements changed in April 2011.

As for being concerned about what docs people use I don't care. I said I feel sad for those who don't have passports and think they are exempt from missing the ship or having an emergency arise.

JMHO I look at the whole picture ... Let's say a family takes a cruise and they get stuck in traffic and they miss the ship.
They have either left their passport on the ship in safe { a whole other subject} or traveled with the min. required docs. They will then have to
first find the local US consulate then wait until they can be identified as a US citizen before they can get either a replacement PP or new PP.
In either case they will be paying for hotels and food for several days plus airfare and the passport fees. So for a family of 4 let's say that amount could come out to several thousand dollars.

It was taking just that scenario into consideration that my DH and I got our passports within a month of booking our 1st cruise.

I never said anything about your situation as you had stated in OP that you were in the process of getting PP for next cruise which is GREAT!

[flgatormom29]

Whew, i'm not so worried anymore. My daughter's has both mine and my fiance's name on it, her full name and date of birth, place of birth, registrar's signiture, date (and it's within a year), Says "state of florida", "certificate of live birth" and "office of vital statistics" somewhere on it with a gold seal that says "great seal of the state of florida-in God we trust". And it's marked with Florida watermark on the paper.
Sounds like her BC has all the requirements they ask for.

Im just glad i went for the more expensive BC when i ordered it, instead of the cheaper one that might not have been correct!

Very happy now :-)

[njhorseman]

[quote name='B and C Blake']To All those who have posted saying they have used their old BC.

[COLOR="Red"]If you have not cruised since March of this year 2011 .. You really NEED to go onto the State Dept site for passports ... if you go to the CBP site their site will direct you back to the State Dept site for what documents are required.[/COLOR]

[URL="http://www.travel.state.gov/passport/passport_5401.html"]The NEW updates went into effect April 2011.[/URL]

It is not CCL or any other cruiseline checking your travel documents. The port agents are employed through CBP via the individual ports of departure.

As for caring who has what documents ... I could care less .. However at the same time I feel sad for people who do not have a passport thinking they are exempt from missing their ship or having an emergency and are stuck at where ever.

Just yesterday there were folks who missed their ship ... CCL allowed them to get on board a sister ship but they sister ship was headed back to US. Those folks missed the rest of their cruise.

No confirmation but I think it may be safe to say they did not have passports to fly to next port.

Take the folks who only needed to have BC and ID too fly to San Juan .. when Irene closed that port they could not fly onto Barbados to meet their ship.

Time and time again we read about these things happening. We pay hard earned money for our cruises but don't spend a mere $110. for a passport.

SHM it makes no sense![/QUOTE]

That's not true. DHS (CBP) requirements for closed loop cruises have not changed since the current closed loop cruise exception to to the passport requirement was introduced on June 1, 2009. In fact if you go to to the CBP site and click on the proper link you will be taken here:

[url]http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/vacation/getyouhome/[/url] . Click on the Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative link and you'll find the rules unchanged.

What changed on April 1, 2011 is the State Department's requirements for birth certificates that will be used for the purpose passport issuance. DHS (CBP) has not changed one word of their rules.

[gelo7]

[COLOR=Navy][SIZE=3][B]Thanks for sharing. Who knew....[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[B and C Blake]

[quote name='njhorseman']That's not true. DHS (CBP) requirements for closed loop cruises have not changed since the current closed loop cruise exception to to the passport requirement was introduced on June 1, 2009. In fact if you go to to the CBP site and click on the proper link you will be taken here:

[url]http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/vacation/getyouhome/[/url] . Click on the Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative link and you'll find the rules unchanged.

What changed on April 1, 2011 is the State Department's requirements for birth certificates that will be used for the purpose passport issuance. DHS (CBP) has not changed one word of their rules.[/QUOTE]

OK so I played follow the links starting with the link you posted ...

[url]http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/vacation/getyouhome/[/url] followed by
[url]http://getyouhome.gov/html/eng_map.html[/url] followed by
[url]http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/[/url] clicked international travel documents and where do you think I ended up at ...
[url]http://travel.state.gov/ :eek:[/url]

The point is that the guidelines used for requirements for a BC to get a PP are the same used by CBP

[njhorseman]

[quote name='chicy724']The lady in customs told me specifically that the one he had was not acceptable because it was from the city, and did not say "certificate of live birth" and "State of Massachusetts".

Hubby had the same issue- he only was ever issued one from the city. There is a state issued one available as far as we know. His Mom has since requested two copies from VitaCheck so we will see what they say when they arrive.

As I said previously- hubby used his "city issued" one for his new stat DL, marriage license/certificate, social security card and any other thing requiring proof of citizenship. So, we didn't think otherwise, especially since every one said "birth certificate with raised seal".. he has one, just one that the port in New Orleans would accept. Perhaps other ports are not like the one we were at, but I can assure everyone that they told us they wouldn't accept it because it didn't say "certificate of live birth", and "State of Massachusetts".[/QUOTE]

VitalChek is a business that contracts with government agencies to serve as an intermediary for people ordering birth certificates and other records. The BC you get is whatever official document the particular government agency issues. If you were born in a city that issues its own birth certificates, as I was having been born in New York City, you will get that city's birth certificate. I can't get a state birth certificate because it doesn't exist. If your state does issue a birth certificate then obviously you can get one.

Sounds like the port personnel don't know what they're doing.

[chicy724]

[quote name='B and C Blake']Chiccy
I never said anything about your situation as you had stated in OP that you were in the process of getting PP for next cruise which is GREAT![/quote]

;) Got it!

[njhorseman]

[quote name='B and C Blake']OK so I played follow the links starting with the link you posted ...

[url]http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/vacation/getyouhome/[/url] followed by
[url]http://getyouhome.gov/html/eng_map.html[/url] followed by
[url]http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/[/url] clicked international travel documents and where do you think I ended up at ...
[url]http://travel.state.gov/ :eek:[/url]

The point is that the guidelines used for requirements for a BC to get a PP are the same used by CBP[/QUOTE]

You clicked the wrong links. You need to go in this sequence:

[url]http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/vacation/[/url]
[url]http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/vacation/getyouhome/[/url]
[url]http://getyouhome.gov/html/eng_map.html[/url]
[url]http://getyouhome.gov/html/lang_eng/index.html[/url]
[url]http://getyouhome.gov/html/lang_eng/eng_sa.html[/url]

On that last page you will see the following, which is unchanged since 6/1/2009:
[B]
"Closed Loop" Cruises: U.S. citizens who board a cruise ship at a port within the United States, travel only within the Western Hemisphere, and return to the same U.S. port on the same ship may present a government issued photo identification, [COLOR="Red"]along with proof of citizenship (an original or copy of his or her birth certificate[/COLOR], a Consular report of Birth Abroad, or a Certificate of Naturalization). Please be aware that you may still be required to present a passport to enter the foreign countries your cruise ship is visiting. Check with your cruise line to ensure you have the appropriate documents.[/B]

[chicy724]

[quote name='njhorseman']

Sounds like the port personnel don't know what they're doing.[/quote]

Perhaps you are right. And if that is the case they certainly need to get it straight. There was an older couple that couldn't get onto the ship because she didn't have the "correct" BC and had no way of getting one. They asked her if she could get the hospital one, using my hubby's copy they had just received via fax as an example. The lady was probably in her 70s. We felt so bad for them.
There were at least 3 or 4 sets of people who were having these issues at our terminal. If it in an instance of port personnel getting something wrong, they need to be corrected. They are causing people to lose tons of $$ and a ton of stress! :mad:

[Jenna1983]

I have a passport but just surprised my mom with the fact I'm taking her on a cruise. She had been saying she was going to get a passport but said, "Oh I haven't done it." We have seven weeks until our cruise and she was going yesterday to do it. Of course, her BC doesn't have her parents names on it because it was 56 years ago. Now passports require names on BC. Vital Statistics is telling us, "23-24 days to mail a birth certificate." It's totally pushing it. Hoping my 88 year old grandmother can go to the Local Registrars office and get two certified copies (mail off for a pp and one to take in case pp isn't back).

[njhorseman]

[quote name='pjhootch']The birth certificate issue is really confusing. I just received the email Mach posted but I didn't read it well since we have passports. After looking at it again, there is no suggestion that city issued BCs won't work.

[COLOR="Red"]However, when we applied for passports my kids New York City birth certificates were not accepted. They are Certificate of Live Birth, issued by the City of New York, with a raised seal and full information. The U.S. passport office would not accept them, and we used Vitachek to obtain New York State issued birth certificates so we could get them passports.[/COLOR]

At this point, I wouldn't want to take the risk of trying to cruise with a birth certificate, even if I had cruised with it before.[/QUOTE]


Sorry, but the State of New York does not issue birth certificates for New York City births, only New York City does:

[B][url]http://www.health.state.ny.us/vital_records/birth.htm[/url]

Birth Certificates

Where do I obtain a birth certificate copy for someone born in New York City?

The New York State Department of Health does not file and cannot issue copies of New York City birth certificates. For births in one of the five (5) boroughs of New York City (Manhattan, Kings, Queens, the Bronx, and Staten Island), please visit the New York City Department of Health and Mental Hygiene web site. Please note that the borough of Kings is sometimes referred to as Brooklyn and the borough of Staten Island is sometimes referred to as Richmond.[/B]

VitalChek is just a business that operates as an intermediary for ordering birth and other records from the government agencies that keep those records. They can't issue a document that doesn't exist. I suspect what you got for your children was an updated version of their NY City birth certificates that includes all the information required by the State Department, while their previous BCs were missing something State requires.

[B and C Blake]

[quote name='njhorseman']You clicked the wrong links. You need to go in this sequence:

[url]http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/vacation/[/url]
[url]http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/vacation/getyouhome/[/url]
[url]http://getyouhome.gov/html/eng_map.html[/url]
[url]http://getyouhome.gov/html/lang_eng/index.html[/url]
[url]http://getyouhome.gov/html/lang_eng/eng_sa.html[/url]

On that last page you will see the following, which is unchanged since 6/1/2009:
[B]
"Closed Loop" Cruises: U.S. citizens who board a cruise ship at a port within the United States, travel only within the Western Hemisphere, and return to the same U.S. port on the same ship may present a government issued photo identification, [COLOR="Red"]along with proof of citizenship (an original or copy of his or her birth certificate[/COLOR], a Consular report of Birth Abroad, or a Certificate of Naturalization). Please be aware that you may still be required to present a passport to enter the foreign countries your cruise ship is visiting. Check with your cruise line to ensure you have the appropriate documents.[/B][/QUOTE]
All those words are all correct but there is no where on the CBP that shows exactly what constitutes the correct birth certificate is needed .. that is why it takes you to the State Dept site that has the NEWLY updated requirements.

[chicy724]

[quote name='Jenna1983']I have a passport but just surprised my mom with the fact I'm taking her on a cruise. She had been saying she was going to get a passport but said, "Oh I haven't done it." We have seven weeks until our cruise and she was going yesterday to do it. Of course, her BC doesn't have her parents names on it because it was 56 years ago. Now passports require names on BC. Vital Statistics is telling us, "23-24 days to mail a birth certificate." It's totally pushing it. Hoping my 88 year old grandmother can go to the Local Registrars office and get two certified copies (mail off for a pp and one to take in case pp isn't back).[/quote]

I believe you can have Vital Statistics expedite it. It will probably cost more but I do believe most agencies have some option for expediting the process. I know if they use VitalCheck then they do have an expedited process. Check into it if you can!

[MsTabbyKats]

[quote name='njhorseman']VitalChek is a business that contracts with government agencies to serve as an intermediary for people ordering birth certificates and other records. The BC you get is whatever official document the particular government agency issues. If you were born in a city that issues its own birth certificates, as I was having been born in New York City, you will get that city's birth certificate. I can't get a state birth certificate because it doesn't exist. If your state does issue a birth certificate then obviously you can get one.

Sounds like the port personnel don't know what they're doing.[/quote]

It's not the port personnel "not knowing"....it's the passengers not having what they need....and coming up with all kinds of explanations

The port personnel know exactly what's acceptable and what isn't.......

They should make it simple....no passport...no passage

[chicy724]

[quote name='MsTabbyKats']It's not the port personnel "not knowing"....it's the passengers not having what they need....and coming up with all kinds of explanations

The port personnel know exactly what's acceptable and what isn't.......

[B][U]They should make it simple....no passport...no passage[/U][/B][/quote]

Exactly! They should do that to eliminate any confusion or issues.

I do not feel that it's ALWAYS the passengers not having what they need. Some, like myself, think we have what we need after researching high and low. There is a lot of confusion out there and if people (like myself) have never cruised before, or left the country- we are not experienced enough and take information from others who are experienced.

Even after having this experience, and from what people have posted on here I am STILL confused, other than the fact that we need a passport to avoid this in the future.

[bighairtexan]

Usually the registrar is a county office rather than state and certainly not city (unless the county is made up of only that city). I've never heard of a city birth cert unless it's a city hospital that issues a certificate but that's not usually acceptable for much.

[njhorseman]

[quote name='MsTabbyKats']It's not the port personnel "not knowing"....it's the passengers not having what they need....and coming up with all kinds of explanations

The port personnel know exactly what's acceptable and what isn't.......

They should make it simple....no passport...no passage[/QUOTE]

Baloney...as noted (and documented via link to the State of NY) NY State does not issue birth certificates for births in NY City, so the port agent who was insisting that your BC has to come from the state to be valid is clueless because no one born in NY City could ever cruise using their BC if that port agent was correct...and that simply isn't true.

[njhorseman]

[quote name='bighairtexan']Usually the registrar is a county office rather than state and certainly not city (unless the county is made up of only that city). I've never heard of a city birth cert unless it's a city hospital that issues a certificate but that's not usually acceptable for much.[/QUOTE]

As I've documented, New York City issues its birth certificates, not the state, and not the county.

[njhorseman]

[quote name='B and C Blake']All those words are all correct but there is no where on the CBP that shows exactly what constitutes the correct birth certificate is needed .. that is why it takes you to the State Dept site that has the NEWLY updated requirements.[/QUOTE]

I'm still looking for the link you insist takes you to the State Department site. I can't find it on the page your third link, [url]http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/[/url] takes you to...there's nothing on that page that says "international travel documents" .

[beauty1492]

Well just lighting up things.... I have a friend that sent away for the Offical BC so he could get a Passport and what he got back was well...seems the folks that rasied him didn't ever formalyl adopt him. They always called him Jr and he was not their Jr at all. Needless to say he had to postpone his cruise and do a name change. Then he went hunting for his real family He didnt know he was adopted!

So we always carry both bc and passport cause if some thing happens and suddenly your crusie is no longer a closed loop you need a passport.

[tassycatt]

Reading threads like this makes me very glad that finally DD, DH and I all have passports now. :o

[room010]

You can also save yourself a lot of drama by obtaining your passport well in advance of any overseas travel, cruise or otherwise, instead of leaving it to the last minute.

I've said this before (and been flamed for it) but I simply don't understand why so many Americans are so resistant to the idea of obtaining irrefutable proof of their identity and citizenship, ie, a passport. The rest of the world does it without a thought. And please don't give me the "cost" excuse - I bet your bar bill on the cruise will be way more than $110.

[puts on kevlar suit]

[rockbock]

[quote name='room010'] And please don't give me the "cost" excuse - I bet your bar bill on the cruise will be way more than $110.
[/quote]

It's great that you are so fortunate to not have to worry about money. For some people, a cruise is something that requires years of savings and the extra cost for the passports might make the trip cost-prohibitive.

For my family of five the passports would have cost $550. Yes, we could have afforded them, but we decided it's a lot of money and we're willing to take the risk of traveling with birth certificates instead. Please don't offer me your opinions about my choice. This thread wasn't started to judge others' decisions. It is about finding out what documents are valid.

I just called Carnival and asked for clarification about our documents. Two of us had birth certificates which have been "questioned" in this thread.

My document was a certified copy received from the State of Virginia. It contains all of the appropriate verbiage and both of my parents' names. However, it does not have a raised seal. It has a watermark.

My stepson's original birth certificate (the ONLY one we ever received) was issued by the Department of Health from a county in Indiana. It does have a raised seal. It says "Certificate of Birth" (not "Live" birth). It does not say "Department of Vital Statistics" anywhere on it.

The Carnival representative stated that both certificates are fine. She explained that many people lately are trying to board cruise ships with hospital-issued certificates, complete with little baby feet. She said those are not valid. As long as the certificate is not hospital issued, it can come from a state or county. It can come from the Department of Vital Records or Department of Health. It can have a raised seal, watermark, or whatever other security measures a state might issue to make it valid.

[DocF]

I have a passport, but it expires in late 2013. I thought I might have an issue getting one as the State of Virginia could not find a birth certificate for me on file in 1961 when I joined the Navy.

Jump ahead to 2003. We had to have passports to visit our daughter and grandchildren for Christmas. Her husband is a career U. S. Army officer and was in Iraq. We had to go so they would not be alone at Christmas. I submitted a request along with the requisite fee. About two weeks later, a Birth Certificate arrived. Either the clerks, doing a manual search failed to find it and the computer did or it was actually cut in 1961 after the Department of Defense initiated their request. I will take it, fat, dumb, and happy, to apply for a passport renewal before the old one expires.

We will see what we will see.

Doc