Caution! New regulations dealing with cruising with a Green Card!

[MikeNJ1109]

I do not understand how the Customs officer enforced a "policy" that he does not even have a copy of? If he can't see the "policy" in black and white, or on a computer screen how does he have any idea what the "policy" is. It would be like returning from a trip and being told "you can't bring that item into the country. We have a new policy." "Can I see the policy?" "No, it's not in the computer or printed but it's the policy." Something does not make sense about that. Just my immediate reaction to this.

 

Sorry your friend got hosed and I hope he can get a better explanation of things. Take care, Jim

 

I just Google'd "US Green Card" and "Certification", and the only reference I found involved Green Cards derived from Labor / Business based application, which require a certification.

 

There's enough reading material there to choke a horse ...

 

Michael

[SuzieQ123]

I'm only reading this thread out of curiousity, and found your post full of probable good thoughts. However, in my mind I don't trust my own government's ability to communicate information, the same way I don't trust a lot of Customer Service groups either. (not a political conspiracy nut) But given your extensive cruise history, is your husband planning on changing his green card, assuming you plan to cruise again? Again taking you at your word, I'd hate to see your vacation ruined by one agents interpretations.

 

We have pretty much been told by immigration not too. Kind of like a "don't call us we will call you ". But we will likely spend the money to apply for US citizenship instead. It's $365 better spent toward those costs which will add up to close to a $700 once all is done (citizenship).

[brfan]

I wonder when "highly suggests" became "required." If the customs officer didn't even have a copy of the regulation, I think it's absurd that the OP's friend was kicked off the ship.

 

It may not have been RCI's fault that the new rule wasn't communicated to anybody, but I think that it's a case of unjust enrichment for them to keep his cruise fare. Why should they profit from the government's ineptness?

 

Except didn't the OP mention the guy's wife continued on with the cruise. If RCI did refund his cruise fare wouldn't they then charge the wife the single supplement fee, which could have ended up being more than what they originally paid if their room category price had gone up?

[SuzieQ123]

We travel frequently between the US and Europe to visit my wife's family, and have never had an issue using my wife's US green card ... and would want some more specifics regarding this "Certification" that is being mentioned. Does anyone have a link from either the State Department or DHS regarding this?

 

Michael and Silke

 

I think certification is the wrong word. Some require Visas to certain countries. Italy does not require them. At least not to any Carribean ports we have visited so far

[yj2cute]

My DH travels with a green card as well so this topic is of specific interest to me as well. I just did a bit of research and can't find anything regarding this "certification". All I've found is the same info we've always had. He must present his passport and green card.

 

Any more info on this would be appreciated.

[MikeNJ1109]

My DH travels with a green card as well so this topic is of specific interest to me as well. I just did a bit of research and can't find anything regarding this "certification". All I've found is the same info we've always had. He must present his passport and green card.

 

Any more info on this would be appreciated.

 

Our last trip out of the country was the November 6 2011 cruise on Freedom out of Pt. Canaveral ... wife had German Passport / US Green card, my daughter and I each had our US Passports. We were allowed on board, and had a great week.

 

It would seem there's gotta be more to this than meets the eye at this point. I'll be very curious to find out if there's something I'm missing ...

 

Michael

[yj2cute]

Just found this from the customs and border patrol website, updated today:

 

What documents, identification, and paperwork does a legal permanent resident (LPR) or Green Card holder need to travel internationally?

 

Lawful Permanent Residents (Green Card holders) do not need a passport to enter the United States as per (8 C.F.R. 311.1(a)), however, they may need a passport to enter another country. Please contact the embassy of the foreign country you will be traveling to for their requirements. Note: Canada does not require a passport from U.S. LPR's.

 

Lawful Permanent Residents of the U.S. must present a Permanent Resident Card ("Green Card", INS Form I-551), a Reentry Permit (if gone for more than 1 year), or a Returning Resident Visa (if gone for 2 years or more) to reenter the United States.

 

So it would seem that permanent don't even need a passport to get back into the US, although them may need them to enter their country of travel. All they should have to present is their valid green card.

[tagheuer]

instead of spending all this time researching, questioning the Customs/Border policies, posting on internet forums, etc...

 

Wouldn't it just be much simpler, and guaranteed hassle free, to just travel on a passport from whichever country you are a citizen of?

 

I mean, jeez, by the time you spend all this time futzing around just get a passport and be done with it.

 

Over and over RC and all other cruiselines STRONGLY RECOMMEND that you travel with a valid passport.

 

End of story.

[yj2cute]

instead of spending all this time researching, questioning the Customs/Border policies, posting on internet forums, etc...

 

Wouldn't it just be much simpler, and guaranteed hassle free, to just travel on a passport from whichever country you are a citizen of?

 

I mean, jeez, by the time you spend all this time futzing around just get a passport and be done with it.

 

Over and over RC and all other cruiselines STRONGLY RECOMMEND that you travel with a valid passport.

 

End of story.

 

Did you even read this thread before posting? :confused: This is not a discussion on the merits of traveling with a passport.

[critterchick]

RCI didn´t profit here, actually they lost onboard revenue. Why should RCI have to loose money here on the cruise fare for the governments ineptness?

 

The whole situation is entirely between the OP´s friend and customs, it has nothing to do with RCI and likely would have happened with any other line as well.

 

Except didn't the OP mention the guy's wife continued on with the cruise. If RCI did refund his cruise fare wouldn't they then charge the wife the single supplement fee, which could have ended up being more than what they originally paid if their room category price had gone up?

 

They may have lost onboard revenue, but they still kept a full cruise fare. But brfan has the better point regarding the single supplement that they could have charged the wife. So I retract that part of my comment.

:)

instead of spending all this time researching, questioning the Customs/Border policies, posting on internet forums, etc...

 

Wouldn't it just be much simpler, and guaranteed hassle free, to just travel on a passport from whichever country you are a citizen of?

 

I mean, jeez, by the time you spend all this time futzing around just get a passport and be done with it.

 

Over and over RC and all other cruiselines STRONGLY RECOMMEND that you travel with a valid passport.

 

End of story.

 

You may be correct, but it seems that people are relying on what's on both the RCI and CBP websites. And in this instance, it appears that one can't do that.

[joandian]

My husband and I are Aussies with Green Cards and we travel a great deal. We have never had a problem with cruises or plane travel but we always use our passports as well as our Green Cards.

 

I'm curious now to find out more about this. There has to be more to it then mentioned. I agree with the previous poster, if you are not a US citizen, you'd be wise to always travel with a passport from your country of birth as well as a Green Card.

[uksimonusa]

My wife is a German citizen with a valid US Green Card (with an expiration date). She has been told by her government that if she applied for US citizenship, she would have to renounce her German citizenship and also renounce her claim to the German version of Social Security ... in addition our daughter would then no longer be able to claim German / EU citizenship (she is a Dual US / German citizen now, with a right to live and work in both countries).

 

As such, unless her Government in Berlin decides to make an exception, and allow her to maintain her German citizenship, she will continue to maintain her current status with a US green card.

 

Michael

 

The US makes you renounce your previous citizenship when you become a USC, however you only renounce your previous citizenship to a US government employee, who, in the case of Britain anyway, has no authority to accept your renunciation onbehalf of your original country. The UK has no problems with dual citizenship, nor does the US, so unless I physically go to London and renounce my British Citizenship in front of a British Government agent, I am still, in the eyes of the British Government, a British Citizen.

 

I know some countries are different and it sounds like Germany is one of those, your daughter got German citizenship, based on being born to a German Mother, if the mother is no longer German, then it follows that the daughter would no longer be German either.

[MikeNJ1109]

The US makes you renounce your previous citizenship when you become a USC, however you only renounce your previous citizenship to a US government employee, who, in the case of Britain anyway, has no authority to accept your renunciation onbehalf of your original country. The UK has no problems with dual citizenship, nor does the US, so unless I physically go to London and renounce my British Citizenship in front of a British Government agent, I am still, in the eyes of the British Government, a British Citizen.

 

I know some countries are different and it sounds like Germany is one of those, your daughter got German citizenship, based on being born to a German Mother, if the mother is no longer German, then it follows that the daughter would no longer be German either.

 

Actually, while the US government does not encourage dual citizenship because of the potential ancillary issues involved (potential military service and tax obligations), it also understands the de facto reality of the fact that dual citizenship exists. As such, there is no "formal" obligation to renounce your prior citizenship prior to becoming an American. America allows one to "formally renounce" ones US citizenship in the same manner that you describe involving your UK citizenship.

 

In our case, our issue is with Berlin, not with DC. America would not stand in the way of my wife maintaining two citizenships. And we're still working on it ... we have good immigration attorneys both in the States and Germany.

 

Michael

[uksimonusa]

Actually, while the US government does not encourage dual citizenship because of the potential ancillary issues involved (potential military service and tax obligations), it also understands the de facto reality of the fact that dual citizenship exists. As such, there is no "formal" obligation to renounce your prior citizenship prior to becoming an American. America allows one to "formally renounce" ones US citizenship in the same manner that you describe involving your UK citizenship.

 

In our case, our issue is with Berlin, not with DC. America would not stand in the way of my wife maintaining two citizenships. And we're still working on it ... we have good immigration attorneys both in the States and Germany.

 

Michael

 

To become a USC you do have to renounce your former citizenship, it is part of the citizenship ceremony, BUT you only renounce it to the US, not your former country

[MikeNJ1109]

To become a USC you do have to renounce your former citizenship, it is part of the citizenship ceremony, BUT you only renounce it to the US, not your former country

 

Fair enough ... the citizenship OATH one recites includes the phrase that you renounce all former allegiances, but de facto does not require you to formally renounce before the prior government. And the US does indeed recognize that dual citizenship is a fact of life.

 

If the US government isn't going to REQUIRE a formal renunciation then it sort of makes that portion of the oath an anachronism.

 

Michael

[SuzieQ123]

You can't. If your a permanent resident alien your foreign passport has your US address on it. You need both the green card and passport. For example my husbands passport is issued from Rome but his address is NJ.

[labates629]

I too, am a British Citizen with a Green Card (with exp. date) and have never had any issues traveling with both. I am soon to become a US Citizen (all things being well!) and whilst the ceremony part does have the wording about renouncing other allegiances, there is nothing to stop you maintaining (and renewing) a British Passport, so it is a bit of a misnomer. I'm not sure why anyone who lives in the US would not want to be a citizen, it gives you way more security than being on a GC, plus you pay taxes, it's nice to be able to vote! Right now I can't even sign school petitions!

I agree that the Green Card holder who traveled without his passport must have had an issue due to not having a passport. He would not be eligible to clear customs in non US ports visited without a passport.

[Finbar127]

Except didn't the OP mention the guy's wife continued on with the cruise. If RCI did refund his cruise fare wouldn't they then charge the wife the single supplement fee, which could have ended up being more than what they originally paid if their room category price had gone up?

 

Very good point.

[uksimonusa]

instead of spending all this time researching, questioning the Customs/Border policies, posting on internet forums, etc...

 

Wouldn't it just be much simpler, and guaranteed hassle free, to just travel on a passport from whichever country you are a citizen of?

 

I mean, jeez, by the time you spend all this time futzing around just get a passport and be done with it.

 

Over and over RC and all other cruiselines STRONGLY RECOMMEND that you travel with a valid passport.

 

End of story.

 

A passport from your original country will not help you enter the US as an LPR, you must have your valid green card, they may let you enter the US as a visitor with no right to live or work on just your foreign passport.

 

In fact and LPR does not need a passport to enter the US, just their Green Card, see post below, and most caribbean countries visited on a cruise allow a US green card as id to enter the country as a cruise visitor

 

Just found this from the customs and border patrol website, updated today:

 

What documents, identification, and paperwork does a legal permanent resident (LPR) or Green Card holder need to travel internationally?

 

Lawful Permanent Residents (Green Card holders) do not need a passport to enter the United States as per (8 C.F.R. 311.1(a)), however, they may need a passport to enter another country. Please contact the embassy of the foreign country you will be traveling to for their requirements. Note: Canada does not require a passport from U.S. LPR's.

 

Lawful Permanent Residents of the U.S. must present a Permanent Resident Card ("Green Card", INS Form I-551), a Reentry Permit (if gone for more than 1 year), or a Returning Resident Visa (if gone for 2 years or more) to reenter the United States.

 

So it would seem that permanent don't even need a passport to get back into the US, although them may need them to enter their country of travel. All they should have to present is their valid green card.

 

 

You can't. If your a permanent resident alien your foreign passport has your US address on it. You need both the green card and passport. For example my husbands passport is issued from Rome but his address is NJ.

 

Not many non US passports have address spaces in them.

[labates629]

That may be true about not needing a passport from your home country to enter the US, but the trouble is the customs officials never seem to know their own rules and always ask for your passport so I don't think I would risk going anywhere without it! I travel a lot for business (unfortunately not always for cruises!) and I've never been able to get back into the US (via OHare, Chicago) without showing passport AND GC. I've had situations before when I was on a work visa (awaiting GC approval) and had to explain to the customs officials what kind of stamp/entry permit I needed to have (on advice of immigration attorney) when returning to the US! If you don't get the correct stamp it can mess up the whole GC process apparently.

Seems like we need a complete overhaul of the immigration system to avoid all these travel issues - but that's a whole other can of worms :)

[Ocean Boy]

I can certainly understand your frustration for your friend, but this situation doesn't seem right - didn't they need passports to be able to fly from Italy in the first place?

 

And why would they need green cards to fly in from Italy to take a cruise?

[Ocean Boy]

My wife is a German citizen with a valid US Green Card (with an expiration date). She has been told by her government that if she applied for US citizenship, she would have to renounce her German citizenship and also renounce her claim to the German version of Social Security ... in addition our daughter would then no longer be able to claim German / EU citizenship (she is a Dual US / German citizen now, with a right to live and work in both countries).

 

As such, unless her Government in Berlin decides to make an exception, and allow her to maintain her German citizenship, she will continue to maintain her current status with a US green card.

 

Michael

 

I am curious as to why your daughter would loose her German citizenship over an action of her mother? I am not questioning you as to your information only as to why it works that way. Is she under 18 yo? Would she still be affected if she is over 18? Again, just curious.

[Ocean Boy]

Our last trip out of the country was the November 6 2011 cruise on Freedom out of Pt. Canaveral ... wife had German Passport / US Green card, my daughter and I each had our US Passports. We were allowed on board, and had a great week.

 

It would seem there's gotta be more to this than meets the eye at this point. I'll be very curious to find out if there's something I'm missing ...

 

Michael

 

People from all over the world fly to the U.S. to take a cruise. All visitors need to get into this country is a passport and, possibly, a visa. I still don't understand where this green card comes into play when getting onto a cruise ship if someone has a valid passport.

[Ocean Boy]

The US makes you renounce your previous citizenship when you become a USC, however you only renounce your previous citizenship to a US government employee, who, in the case of Britain anyway, has no authority to accept your renunciation onbehalf of your original country. The UK has no problems with dual citizenship, nor does the US, so unless I physically go to London and renounce my British Citizenship in front of a British Government agent, I am still, in the eyes of the British Government, a British Citizen.

 

I know some countries are different and it sounds like Germany is one of those, your daughter got German citizenship, based on being born to a German Mother, if the mother is no longer German, then it follows that the daughter would no longer be German either.

 

I am not sure that is completely true. I have dual citizenship. The requirement for my Italian citizenship was that I was BORN before my father became a U.S. citizen. If he had obtained it prior to my birth then Italy would have viewed it that I was born to an American father instead of an Italian father. Of course, it may work differently in Germany.

[Ocean Boy]

You can't. If your a permanent resident alien your foreign passport has your US address on it. You need both the green card and passport. For example my husbands passport is issued from Rome but his address is NJ.

 

Not many non US passports have address spaces in them.

 

My Italian passport has only my place of birth on it as does my U.S. passport. There is no address where I live on either.