Costa Concordia SINKING

[CruiseAdict218]

Every report I've read has said that they heard the 7 short and one long blast so that is not in dispute.

 

I was curious too, atleast this happened, still praying that those not found are with in the rest found and were just not counted for

[DavidJrandRichard]

"On this point, I saw this photo earlier and wondered if anyone may have some input, but what pressure could the balcony doors and windows hold to? This image shows the water has pulled balcony glass railing off, but the doors and windows behind it seem to be holding, if that's the case, it could help to keep more water out from passenger areas and could help with the rescue effort."

 

 

 

 

I was on the Freedom of the Seas last October when it listed during a storm that had 100 mph winds. The ship did take on water-mainly around balcony doors. The water that came on-board was pretty much, if not all, wind-driven rainwater. I imagine alot of water does come in around those doors, especially when partially submerged as seen in the picture. Perhaps enough water, quick enough, to balance the pressure on both sides, resulting in doors staying closed. You would think those doors would be fairly water-tight, but I learned on the Freedom that lots of water can still come in while they are closed.

[ObscureAllure]

More video (reportedly) from onboard, this while loading and putting lifeboats into the water. They look to be wearing formal wear and the lifeboats say Concordia on them, so I have to assume it's legit, too. It actually seems pretty calm for what I assumed it would be from the reports. And I can hear announcements in the background pretty much the whole time, where as many reports were that there were none. (Although the ones I hear seem to be mostly in Italian from what I can decipher.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFRKLDolaCs

[DebbyV]

"This reminds me so much of that ship off the coast of, was it Santorini, a few years back that was too close to known rocks...that hit them and sank. And I suppose similar to the MSC ship this week that went aground. ."

 

There was the Santorini 2007 MS Sea Diamond accident, but you may be thinking about the September 2000 accident just off the coast of another Greek island, Paros in which 80 people tragically lost their lives.

In this accident, the aging ferryboat "Express Samina" crashed into well-charted islets that rise 20 meters out of the water just off the coast of Paros. It was dark but these rocks are huge and have warning lights on them. The ship was on autopilot. There were widespread allegations that the crew was watching a big European soccer match on TV and not doing proper monitoring during high wind and rough seas conditions.

The subsequent investigation and trial uncovered a number of issues with the ship itself, the crew's actions, and administrative procedures (such as having a registry of all passengers on board). The captain and first mate were charged with negligence and manslaughter, found guilty, and are currently serving 16-year sentences. Greek safety laws were strengthened following the accident. Here are some links:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_Express_Samina

http://www.naval.ntua.gr/~sdl/Publications/Papers/SAMINA-PAPER.pdf

(the youtube is from a Dutch TV station and not in English - sorry! - but has harrowing video from the night of the accident)

[RunsWithFlyingDolphins]

I posted earlier but I'll post again...

 

My brother-in-law is the Senior Salvage Master for Titan Salvage (under contract with Carnival Corp.). He and his crew flew to Italy early this morning, rented a tugboat and boarded the ship shortly after.

 

Anyway, just talked to my brother-in-law and he just got off the ship after being on it for a while and says, "The pictures make it look a lot worse than it really is. The entire ship will have to be re-upholstered and such. I'll probably get all the stuff out [stuff being beds, chairs, fuel, etc.], patch `er up, pump the water out, and tow her to where ever Carnival wants me to, and then get paid." He also said that it will probably cost Carnival $150 million+ and take him a few months.

 

He said he can't really say any more (in terms of how it happened and what he's seeing because it's being investigated) and the above way he will be handling things is preliminary (of course). But he says if the same thing were to happen to him (he has his unlimited masters license) he would have "high tailed 'er outta there." Now he is probably extremely busy, and called my wife to let her know he was safe, so I probably won't talk to him for a few days. But I'll keep y'all updated.

[Iluvcruising2]

No argument...the passage is 182' wide at it's narrowest point....which is why the speed is so wrong. If I had a reason to take the ship thru that passage, I would do it at a dead crawl...but I don' t know the sea conditions and perhaps he tried at higher speed to reduce drift.

 

All is conjecture....hopefully some day we'll know what happened and why.

 

Why did the captain sail through that passage?

 

Is it acceptable for the captain to even take the ship through such a passage at night and at 15 knots?

[ma_t_gus]

Here is video of the South Korean couple that was rescued. They are in remarkable shape and walked to the ambulance.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16564789

 

WoW !!!!

[CruiseAdict218]

More video (reportedly) from onboard, this while loading and putting lifeboats into the water. They look to be wearing formal wear and the lifeboats say Concordia on them, so I have to assume it's legit, too. It actually seems pretty calm for what I assumed it would be from the reports. And I can hear announcements in the background pretty much the whole time, where as many reports were that there were none. (Although the ones I hear seem to be mostly in Italian from what I can decipher.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFRKLDolaCs

 

Has to be real

[MorganMars]

My guess at this time is there were two incidents. The first when they made the course correction in what seemed to be the channel between the island and the mainland. And the second at the island when the captain attempted to thread the needle so to speak between those rocks. The first incident may have been the sand bar and/or electrical problem (from early reports today) and for whatever reason caused the captain to either voluntary or involuntary head to the island to "beach it" or just get close enough and evacuate the ship. And the second incident happened when the ship was mistakenly sailed too close to the island and picked up the big rock and tear in her port side while attempting to thread those two rocks. That just finished off the ship 'cause she was probably already taking on water from the first incident. Probably the captain did not intend the attempt to sail the ship between those rocks... if you knew they where there, why would you with a ship that size???

 

Of course, this is a complete guess based on what I've read here and on news outlets today.

 

Yes, that would be consistent with my experience. It is seldom just one event, but instead it is a series of events that escalate the severity of the situation.

 

Regards,

MorganMars

[Activated95b]

Exactly.... Why no may day?

 

According to this ship tracking link - at about the time of the grounding every other ship in the area suddenly changed course and started heading for the Concordia. This indicates that they recieved some sort of distress call.

 

http://www.shipcruise.org/cruise-articles/435-costa-concordia-accident

[ObscureAllure]

Daily Mail now says that the impact took place about where we were speculating before (out at sea) then headed to the island after (look at the map on the left a third of the way down the page) http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2086831/Costa-Concordia-accident-Pictures-cruise-ship-sinking-coast-Italy-Titanic-like-scene.html

... but it still looks like she was slightly off the course even there. Could this be because of the ship that was directly in front of her as per the AIS logging? Interesting.

 

However, by their report, "sources" say that the captain abandoned the ship at around 11:30pm. If this is true, that's horrible. I'm not saying he should have "gone down with the ship" or anything, but they were still taking people off by helicopter around 3am... he should have stayed on board at least until then. I really hope that's not true., and if it is, I hope it was by direct order of someone and not of his own accord.

[juicyglam87]

Has to be real

 

Wow! I wonder if that is one of the lifeboats that just dangled for 45 minutes. I also wonder what the announcement said?

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[YII]

Here's a fact that amazes me in 2012.

 

I often see on tv old news with different natural disasters, terrorism, civil unrest in different parts of the world and so on. Some of the videos are up to 10 years old and look like crap, almost nothing can be distinguished in the video and some are better but still look like they were made in the early 90's.

 

Most of the smartphones and digital cameras (P&S) have 720/1080p, those made in the past 2 years or so.

 

Why on earth every video that goes to the media looks like **** ? Why the hell everyone keeps complaining before a new smartphone reaches out the market that they want at least 1080p, 64 gigs of internal storage and other stuff if nobody is able to make a decent video that who knows, might help someone in case of an investigation.

[tntornadox]

It would seem they loaded passengers from the Upper Promenade Deck (behind where the lifeboats are stored) and not on the Promenade Deck itself as normal, but I can see why... that lifeboat didn't have to descend very far to hit water.

[Iluvcruising2]

Daily Mail now says that the impact took place about where we were speculating before (out at sea) then headed to the island after (look at the map on the left a third of the way down the page) http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2086831/Costa-Concordia-accident-Pictures-cruise-ship-sinking-coast-Italy-Titanic-like-scene.html

... but it still looks like she was slightly off the course even there. Could this be because of the ship that was directly in front of her as per the AIS logging? Interesting.

 

However, by their report, "sources" say that the captain abandoned the ship at around 11:30pm. If this is true, that's horrible. I'm not saying he should have "gone down with the ship" or anything, but they were still taking people off by helicopter around 3am... he should have stayed on board at least until then. I really hope that's not true., and if it is, I hope it was by direct order of someone and not of his own accord.

 

4 miles off course, so said the report.

[Susie51]

I was just perusing the boards as my husband and I gifted our mothers with a cruise on Concordia for Christmas....they flew into Milan today and are supposed to sail out of Savona tomorrow....obviously that will not happen.

 

How terrible for those that were onboard!...and those whose vacations are now not going to happen. Sounds like no one was injured so that is a blessing.

 

And this is just another example of why trip insurance is so important!

 

Because many pax did not have their money or documents with them, it seems like it will be hard to get any immediate relief from the trip insurance.

[ObscureAllure]

It would seem they loaded passengers from the Upper Promenade Deck (behind where the lifeboats are stored) and not on the Promenade Deck itself as normal, but I can see why... that lifeboat didn't have to descend very far to hit water.

I was just thinking that. That may have led to a lot of extra confusion, I'd say. But surely there was a safety reason they decided to load it a deck lower as that would be a random thing to do it not.

 

4 miles off course, so said the report.

 

Yes - on the map, too. I know it's common to go a distance around another vessel, but 4 miles seems a bit obsessive. The report also says that he still claims that they weren't off course ... maybe his navigation equipment malfunctioned and said that he was on course? Even if he was going to "sail near" the island, why turn north right there on purpose, not just sail near the southern tip which is still fairly on course? It would cost so much more time and effort and money to go north right there just for a buzz... Why would he purposefully go that way? It makes no sense. The more details emerge, the more I'm thinking Navigation malfunction which brought him near an outcropping he wasn't aware he was near to. If I thought I was on track and not four miles off, I'd be looking at the area I thought I was in - not the actual area I had no idea about. (if that makes sense?)

[ObscureAllure]

I posted earlier but I'll post again...

 

My brother-in-law is the Senior Salvage Master for Titan Salvage (under contract with Carnival Corp.). He and his crew flew to Italy early this morning, rented a tugboat and boarded the ship shortly after.

 

Anyway, just talked to my brother-in-law and he just got off the ship after being on it for a while and says, "The pictures make it look a lot worse than it really is. The entire ship will have to be re-upholstered and such. I'll probably get all the stuff out [stuff being beds, chairs, fuel, etc.], patch `er up, pump the water out, and tow her to where ever Carnival wants me to, and then get paid." He also said that it will probably cost Carnival $150 million+ and take him a few months.

 

He said he can't really say any more (in terms of how it happened and what he's seeing because it's being investigated) and the above way he will be handling things is preliminary (of course). But he says if the same thing were to happen to him (he has his unlimited masters license) he would have "high tailed 'er outta there." Now he is probably extremely busy, and called my wife to let her know he was safe, so I probably won't talk to him for a few days. But I'll keep y'all updated.

Thanks for the update. Will be interesting to see how this turns out eventually, although I'm glad they are focusing now on rescues. Twitter is a light suddenly with Italian tweets about it so hopefully we'll be hearing about more people found and saved soon.

[GatorMomInNC]

I have been wondering how they are going to get that ship even out of there - I'm sure the Italian authorities and the people of that little island are not going to let them leave it there. It is going to cost a fortune and a lot of time to move it. But if they salvage it - rebuild it- honesty - who would sail on it? I would never book a cruise on that ship after seeing the damage done to the bottom no matter how inexpensive it was.

 

Honestly, it was a maritime tradition from older times when vessels didn't have enough lifeboats aboard for everyone that women and children were loaded first. It would seem that since they had trouble lowering the lifeboats on the other side, the crew may have tried to institute this policy on the Concordia. I say may because it isn't confirmed but I have heard this story in several different news stories.

 

As for possible salvaging, we don't know if this is the only gash in the hull or not. If it is, I would believe they would salvage the vessel... she's only 6 years old. If there is more damage on the other side that would have to be patched up, it becomes a bit more tricky. As was said earlier, it would be cheaper to 'rebuild' Concordia than to build a new ship, I really believe that. The most expensive part of a modern cruise liner's construction is her hull and a majority of it seems to be intact. Cabins are pods that can be easily replaced and interior spaces can be gutted and redone. Electrical wiring can be re-ran.

 

I'm not saying this will absolutely be done, there are too many questions left out there. But I believe to say this ship is a total loss isn't entirely correct based off what we see and know at this point.

 

On this point, I saw this photo earlier and wondered if anyone may have some input, but what pressure could the balcony doors and windows hold to? This image shows the water has pulled balcony glass railing off, but the doors and windows behind it seem to be holding, if that's the case, it could help to keep more water out from passenger areas and could help with the rescue effort.

 

Pic:

[deckofficer]

OK folks, here is a post that is also speculation, like all the posts on this thread. The main difference is this is copied from a thread on a forum that is a mix of professional mariners (like myself) and pleasure mariners (again, like myself). The pleasure mariners are live aboard cruisers, people that cruise a bit differently than ObscureAllure, cruising on their own boats, their schedules and choice of destinations. I know that this can't compare with ObscureAllure's vast sea going experience that she has documented by 85% of her total posts on THIS forum on this thread alone. I'm sure she has dined with the Captain on numerous occasions, thus it is hard to challenge her experience.

 

But for all you good folks that are hoping the Captain involved in this accident did the best job he could under the conditions, I'll share what was posted on my forum, as it could make you feel a little better............

 

 

"The captain of the Costa Concordia may have been correct in his belief that his ship met its fate off the western Italian coast because of a power failure.

Passengers rescued from the stricken liner reported there had been a power blackout and a large booming noise, which indicated the vessel may have suffered an engine room explosion.

Last night Malcolm Latarche, editor of the global shipping magazine IHS Fairplay Solutions, said the problem may have been caused by a phenomenon known as ‘harmonic interference’.

Mr Latarche said it was possible the cruise liner experienced the same problem that saw the Queen Mary 2 lose power in September 2010 as she was approaching Barcelona. On that occasion, the QM2 was able to carry on into open sea.

The expert said the harmonic interference – a type of power surge – could have caused a malfunction in the generators feeding the ship’s six diesel electric engines with which the back-up systems could not cope.

This would have caused the ship to lose navigational power and steering control and veer off course, he said.

Asked for his assessment of the incident, Mr Latarche said: ‘I would say power failure caused by harmonic interference and then it can’t propel straight or navigate and it hit rocks.’

He added that once a ship experienced problems with the electrical supply to its main propulsion motors, it could lead to a problem with steering.

Mr Latarche said: ‘It seems that this may have happened quite close to land, in shallow water. When you can’t steer you are going to run aground and hit rocks at some point.’

The Costa Concordia, built in 2005, was designed to standards comparable with ocean liners.

Even though it had a rounded hull compared to the stronger V-shaped hull fitted to the Cunard flagship QM2, experts say it was capable of crossing the rough seas of the Atlantic.

Mr Latarche added: ‘Although the damage caused to the ship was severe, there are many safeguards in the design of a state-of-the-art cruise ship to prevent it turning over.

‘There is a second hull within the outer hull. Inside the inner hull there is a steel structure like an ice tray to contain the water and prevent it spreading through the ship.

‘In this case, the Master rightly attempted to return it to the shore, but it seems to have keeled over because it hit shallow water on the coast. An ocean cruise ship is not designed to float in 20ft of water. It needs much more than that to remain upright.’

According to Mr Latarche, the fact that the average tonnage of cruise ships has doubled in the past decade makes a full-scale evacuation while at sea almost impossible.

Under regulations introduced by the International Maritime Organisation in 2010, the very latest ships are now designed to be able to return to port even in the event of a major fire or loss of power on board, in order to make evacuation unnecessary.

The Concordia was commissioned five years prior to the new rules but Mr Latarche said: ‘Even if the most sophisticated ship in the world went into shallow water, the likelihood is it would turn on its side. This was a unique situation in which a number of circumstances all came together.’

Last night, Italian investigators trying to establish the cause of the accident arrested the Captain, Francesco Schettino, and were considering bringing manslaughter charges. The investigators will study repair log books and fault reports for the vessel dating back several years. They will also examine the experience of the officers and crew and examine the roles played by everyone on the day that the liner came to grief.

Since the Eighties the cruise industry has experienced a boom. More than 19 million passengers took a cruise last year and nine or more cruise ships of 100,000 tons or more have been built every year for the past decade.

Although cruise ships appear to be top- heavy, most of their weight is at the bottom, while the structure towards the top is designed to be comparatively light.

Traditionally, the vast majority of cruises have been taken by Americans to the Caribbean islands, but the Mediterranean market is rapidly expanding, with Italy the prime destination. Cruise liners are designed for pleasure voyages, in which the surroundings and the luxurious amenities are the major focus of the experience, rather than the transportation itself.

As an industry, cruising has a safety record generally regarded as excellent. Over the past two decades, an estimated 90 million passengers have enjoyed a cruise without major incident. The overwhelming majority of deaths on cruise ships are from natural causes or suicides. Passenger ships – defined as any ship carrying more than 12 passengers – must comply with International Maritime Organisation regulations, which cover every aspect of the construction and operation."

 

Now lets wait for the investigations to be conducted, sound like a good idea ObscureAllure?

[Nalagh]

I just saw a news show that stated the EMEG drill was schecduled for the next day, and many people did not know what to do or where to go. Why was that? On Disney, HOL, and NCL the drills are right away! This delay caused a great loss of life.

[SissasMomE]

OK folks, here is a post that is also speculation, like all the posts on this thread. The main difference is this is copied from a thread on a forum that is a mix of professional mariners (like myself) and pleasure mariners (again, like myself). The pleasure mariners are live aboard cruisers, people that cruise a bit differently than ObscureAllure, cruising on their own boats, their schedules and choice of destinations. I know that this can't compare with ObscureAllure's vast sea going experience that she has documented by 85% of her total posts on THIS forum on this thread alone. I'm sure she has dined with the Captain on numerous occasions, thus it is hard to challenge her experience.

 

But for all you good folks that are hoping the Captain involved in this accident did the best job he could under the conditions, I'll share what was posted on my forum, as it could make you feel a little better............

 

 

"The captain of the Costa Concordia may have been correct in his belief that his ship met its fate off the western Italian coast because of a power failure.

Passengers rescued from the stricken liner reported there had been a power blackout and a large booming noise, which indicated the vessel may have suffered an engine room explosion.

Last night Malcolm Latarche, editor of the global shipping magazine IHS Fairplay Solutions, said the problem may have been caused by a phenomenon known as ‘harmonic interference’.

Mr Latarche said it was possible the cruise liner experienced the same problem that saw the Queen Mary 2 lose power in September 2010 as she was approaching Barcelona. On that occasion, the QM2 was able to carry on into open sea.

The expert said the harmonic interference – a type of power surge – could have caused a malfunction in the generators feeding the ship’s six diesel electric engines with which the back-up systems could not cope.

This would have caused the ship to lose navigational power and steering control and veer off course, he said.

Asked for his assessment of the incident, Mr Latarche said: ‘I would say power failure caused by harmonic interference and then it can’t propel straight or navigate and it hit rocks.’

He added that once a ship experienced problems with the electrical supply to its main propulsion motors, it could lead to a problem with steering.

Mr Latarche said: ‘It seems that this may have happened quite close to land, in shallow water. When you can’t steer you are going to run aground and hit rocks at some point.’

The Costa Concordia, built in 2005, was designed to standards comparable with ocean liners.

Even though it had a rounded hull compared to the stronger V-shaped hull fitted to the Cunard flagship QM2, experts say it was capable of crossing the rough seas of the Atlantic.

Mr Latarche added: ‘Although the damage caused to the ship was severe, there are many safeguards in the design of a state-of-the-art cruise ship to prevent it turning over.

‘There is a second hull within the outer hull. Inside the inner hull there is a steel structure like an ice tray to contain the water and prevent it spreading through the ship.

‘In this case, the Master rightly attempted to return it to the shore, but it seems to have keeled over because it hit shallow water on the coast. An ocean cruise ship is not designed to float in 20ft of water. It needs much more than that to remain upright.’

According to Mr Latarche, the fact that the average tonnage of cruise ships has doubled in the past decade makes a full-scale evacuation while at sea almost impossible.

Under regulations introduced by the International Maritime Organisation in 2010, the very latest ships are now designed to be able to return to port even in the event of a major fire or loss of power on board, in order to make evacuation unnecessary.

The Concordia was commissioned five years prior to the new rules but Mr Latarche said: ‘Even if the most sophisticated ship in the world went into shallow water, the likelihood is it would turn on its side. This was a unique situation in which a number of circumstances all came together.’

Last night, Italian investigators trying to establish the cause of the accident arrested the Captain, Francesco Schettino, and were considering bringing manslaughter charges. The investigators will study repair log books and fault reports for the vessel dating back several years. They will also examine the experience of the officers and crew and examine the roles played by everyone on the day that the liner came to grief.

Since the Eighties the cruise industry has experienced a boom. More than 19 million passengers took a cruise last year and nine or more cruise ships of 100,000 tons or more have been built every year for the past decade.

Although cruise ships appear to be top- heavy, most of their weight is at the bottom, while the structure towards the top is designed to be comparatively light.

Traditionally, the vast majority of cruises have been taken by Americans to the Caribbean islands, but the Mediterranean market is rapidly expanding, with Italy the prime destination. Cruise liners are designed for pleasure voyages, in which the surroundings and the luxurious amenities are the major focus of the experience, rather than the transportation itself.

As an industry, cruising has a safety record generally regarded as excellent. Over the past two decades, an estimated 90 million passengers have enjoyed a cruise without major incident. The overwhelming majority of deaths on cruise ships are from natural causes or suicides. Passenger ships – defined as any ship carrying more than 12 passengers – must comply with International Maritime Organisation regulations, which cover every aspect of the construction and operation."

 

Now lets wait for the investigations to be conducted, sound like a good idea ObscureAllure?

 

Good post - thank you for the information.

[BalconyBumz]

I just saw a news show that stated the EMEG drill was schecduled for the next day, and many people did not know what to do or where to go. Why was that? On Disney, HOL, and NCL the drills are right away! This delay caused a great loss of life.

 

Law states they have 24 hours. 3 that we know of out of 4,000? Albeit 3 too many, but do you really think with a tilted ship you would have been able to get to your assigned life boat on that side if you had the drill?

[SissasMomE]

Law states they have 24 hours. 3 that we know of out of 4,000? Albeit 3 too many, but do you really think with a tilted ship you would have been able to get to your assigned life boat on that side if you had the drill?

 

I know the news reports are not accurate that this point, but I read the 3 that died jumped off the ship. Is the water very cold this time of the year?

[ObscureAllure]

I'm sorry, "deck officer," but there are more important things here than a pissing contest with you - like the lives of 70 missing people, 3 who lost their lives, 4000 who have gone through this terrible ordeal and all of the rescuers, family and anyone connected to it. I will not entertain your pettiness and in return sully the honor and respect that they deserve. Please stop trying to do otherwise.