Costa Concordia SINKING

[JSnow789]

my two cents based on sitting in the Captain's chair for a couple of years and investigating officer for a couple of marine 'incidents' but these are just first thoughts

 

- looking at the overall layout of where the ship was due to go and where it went I have to suspect there was a deviation from the normal course.

 

- tracks show a deviation to port, toward the island that makes no navigational sense

 

* my opinion is this was an electronic error. 'Someone' had reprogrammed the GPS tied to the auto-pilot and had fat fingered a course entry (note the one digit error mentioned by another post), This error turned the ship TOWARD the island rather than north leaving the island safely to the west. (maritime cases are loaded with "radar assisted collision" cases, easily expanded to electronic because folks relied TOO hard on the magic of electrons)

 

* OPINION - SADLY the bridge watch noticed this error WAY too late. (In the vernacular of 'Bridge Resource Management', we call this 'loss of situational awareness) Once detected they notified the Captain who knew they were far off track and getting back on track would cost dollars in either a late arrival or consumption of addition fuel to increase speed.

 

* OPINION - The Captain then saw a short cut ..... a pass between two islands that was narrow but 'just enough' and allowed for minimal loss of time and distance

 

* OPINION - He went for it ..... and learned it was not well charted, because no significant vessels sail thru it!!!!! Oops, turned trying to avoid a rock but the stern swing (a ship turns from the back, your car turns from the front) had him catch the rock "full and by" - he's got a SERIOUS problem now.....

 

* OPINION - Once holed he saw he was close to the port and thought if I can dock the ship the risk is FAR FAR less, so he heads north to the port, only a few miles away while trying to manage the flooding. During this time he tells his crew, do NOT abandon, because I'm going to dock......

 

* the port entrance faces north and he approaches from the south so he must do a 180 degree turn about. Doing so allows enough of the water taken on thru the MASSIVE hole to shift (free surface effect) and the ship lists significantly to starboard resulting in a decision (or an uncontrolled event) to ground the ship just outside the port entrance. (ship damage control . . . )

 

My opinion . . . .

 

 

+1

 

I think this sums it up.

 

And for those wondering if this ship can be salvaged---Who cares? But I seriously doubt it. Fixing the hull temporarily to refloat the vessel buys them time to clean it up from an environmental perspective... then I suspect it will sink under mysterious circumstances while being towed to India.

 

And has anyone else noted the irony about the name 'Concordia'? It was intended to express the wish for continued harmony, unity and peace for European Countries. Now think about what is going on in the Euro Zone and with the Euro itself.

 

Anyway, tragic all around and I'm glad the Captain was arrested. He made grave, fatal mistakes. This was his vessel, people died and the vessel was lost. He is responsible.

[foxesden1]

The Captain of Oceanos........Avranas stated, "When I give the order abandon ship, it doesn't matter what time I leave. Abandon is for everybody. If some people want to stay, they can stay.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MTS_Oceanos

 

Well I hope he never worked with cruises again, what on earth would have happened, if ALL the staff felt that way? Would they all get on life boats, leaving everyone to fend alone? With no idea what to do? :eek:

[kruzerci]

Though a freak accident, the Concordia accident sure changes the invincible view modern cruise ships I once had. I remember thinking about an accident such as Titanic just a few weeks ago while we were having a drink onboard, thinking to myself, that could never happen today.

 

Less than a month later...

[tntornadox]

Unfortunately, I don't think there is a way to engineer a ship to survive such a huge, long gash like Concordia endured. Then again, this is presuming she would have sunk had she not been in shallow waters, which I don't know either.

[cubella59]

Thanks Obscure. Trying to stay up and watch CNN Int'l in the hopes I can recognize one of our friends.

 

FWIW, I just have a hard time believing Schettino abandoned ship the way it's being portrayed in the media. Something's not right there.

 

I have to tear myself away from the Twitter and Youtube feeds now. My heart goes out to everyone affected and I hope that we get more good news over (US) night about more survivors found.

 

Cubella59 - I hope that you and all of yours are safe. Good luck in finding everyone safe and sound.

[tntornadox]

Absolutely Cubella59, I hope you find everyone safe and sound as well.

[pully8]

it seems unbelievable looking at those pictures!

 

just goes to show accidents can and do happen. all the fluff and glam promotions around this form of travel means little, safety of the public, crew and passengers is more important.

 

the pictures make the ship look like toy.

 

think i will stick to river cruising.

[ObscureAllure]

Though a freak accident, the Concordia accident sure changes the invincible view modern cruise ships I once had. I remember thinking about an accident such as Titanic just a few weeks ago while we were having a drink onboard, thinking to myself, that could never happen today.

 

Less than a month later...

 

We joked about the Titanic last week on board the Conquest when they did the movie theme song trivia and that song was in it, laughed at the inappropriate choice of song. I feel you on that one...

 

---

 

Re: Conquest a sister class: I had been told that Concordia and Splendor were created from a slightly modified version of Conquest class and others here have echoed it. They are (obviously) not exact in style or build but seem pretty similar with the newer two of course being slightly more upgraded and bigger. I know they aren't sister ships, but similar classes. Maybe "cousin" is a better word? Second younger wife? I just meant that they have similarities, not that they were exact. Sorry.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Canadian Karebear]

Perhaps now that you are 'content' you should consider an apology to Italian Guest who a) was reporting accurately what was known at the time, b) went to considerable effort to update this discussion when most US news agencies had yet to mention the event, and c) actually tried to help someone locate a missing person who was onboard.

 

I guess no good deed must go unchastised.....

 

What would I be apologizing for, there was no malice in my post.

No apologies here.

[ObscureAllure]

Thanks Obscure. Trying to stay up and watch CNN Int'l in the hopes I can recognize one of our friends.

 

FWIW, I just have a hard time believing Schettino abandoned ship the way it's being portrayed in the media. Something's not right there.

 

I feel so badly for you and can't imagine how hard this is for you. Our thoughts and prayers and sympathies are with you. I have to sleep now (my husband is threatening to hide my phone!) but in the morning if you haven't gotten news I'll see if I can gather up images with the people off board to see if you can find any there. if you're up to it, check Reuters, AP, etc websites and you may find images there. I wish they would make some sort of master list with names that could be checked off if people are ok or something. Maybe someone could do it here on CC - a thread dedicated to names and no discussions for people who are looking for their loved ones. That's what we did after Katrina on NOLA.com

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jimnbigd]

If an airline crashes, typically all airlines pull their TV commercials for a few days. I'm surprised the cruise lines have not done this. I saw commercials for Carnival and RCI Saturday, including one at the end of SNL (Saturday Night Live).

[Nikki Lisette]

Though a freak accident, the Concordia accident sure changes the invincible view modern cruise ships I once had. I remember thinking about an accident such as Titanic just a few weeks ago while we were having a drink onboard, thinking to myself, that could never happen today.

 

Less than a month later...

 

Same here. I read about the Titanic memorial voyage in April on FARK and thought it was macabre. More power to the people booked on it, but it led me to downloading some Titanic related books on my Kindle. So literally for the past 2 weeks I've been engrossed in sinking ships and loss of life at sea. Even had a nightmare about it on Tuesday. Anyway, reading Beesley's story about the Titanic, he says everyone was remarkably calm because in 1912 that's how everyone behaved. No one questioned anything. The movie got it wrong.

 

I just read a Concordia bartender's quote about the accident on Friday and it gave me chills to hear him say it was scary. :( Kudos to whomever steered that giant into shallower waters. One survivor said the water filled in in about half an hour and people were stealing each other's life jackets.

[Rancher Dave]

If an airline crashes, typically all airlines pull their TV commercials for a few days. I'm surprised the cruise lines have not done this. I saw commercials for Carnival and RCI Saturday, including one at the end of SNL (Saturday Night Live).

 

Despite the bad timing, this is the busiest time for cruise bookings so unless all the lines pull their ads I doubt any will pull their ads.

 

I know my wife is a bit more nervous about sailing right this moment since there is no definitive answer as to what happened. Of course it is early for definitive answers.

 

I just hope the missing count declines and the survivor count increases as the sun comes out today.

[nycruiser80]

Although it is "possible" to board the lifeboats when they are in their hoisted position, I have to greatly disagree with you. The lifeboats are directly above the muster deck and are LOWERED.

 

The lifeboats swing out and come down a runner from up above the muster deck (same deck where the ship is boarded) where gates in the railing are opened to allow passengers to step into the lifeboats. The whole reason for the muster occurring where it does ! :rolleyes:

 

I don't know what you mean by "cousin of the Concordia". The Concordia is a SISTER to the Carnival SPLENDOR (identical hulls). It is not a sister to the Destiny Class or the Conquest Class as some are reporting.

 

Incidentally, I have a zillion pics of the SPLENDOR in my WEBSHOTS below, as I've cruised her twice. With the exception of the names of the different public spaces and maybe even possibly the changing of the dimensions of the public spaces, these two ships, the Carnival SPLENDOR and the Costa CONCORDIA are identical.

 

 

 

 

I have sailed the Carnival Destiny and Costa Magica and in both instances the lifeboat drill was done on the deck above the promonade deck. In the instance of the Destiny cruise they demonstrated how they would board the passengers first onto the lifeboat by walking on, into their hoisted position, and then the boat would be lowered into the water. At the time I thought it seemed even safer, this was back in 1999. I could be wrong about the Concordia as I have not sailed her however she is a cousin of the Destiny and Magica and the picture I have attached does show the passengers on the Concordia assembled on the deck above the promonade deck (notice the floor is not teak - or what looks like teak - as on the promonade deck where you board the vessel and relax in deck chairs) I assume awaiting to board the lifeboats. Note the enclosures above them there are no lifeboats above them. One could see the cutaway for the lifeboat on the left of the pic and you can even see the top of the boat.

 

I consider the Concordia a cousin of the Carnival Destiny because the Concordia's basic hull design and most of its layout is based on the Carnival Destiny of 1996 vintage.

 

Here is the lineage:

 

101,000 tons (approx)

Carnival Destiny 1996

Carnival Triumph 1999

Carnival Victory 2000

Costa Fortuna 2003

Costa Magica 2004

 

110,000 tons

Carnival Conquest 2002

Carnival Glory 2003

Carnival Valor 2004

Carnival Liberty 2005

Carnival Freedom 2007

 

112,000

Costa Concordia 2006

Costa Serena 2007

 

113,000 tons

Carnival Splendor 2008

 

114,000 tons

Costa Pacifica 2009

Costa Flavolosa 2011

 

128,000 tons

Carnival Dream 2009

Carnival Magic 2011

 

The Carnival Conquest was the 1st change in the Destiny class series. The Conquest version introduced a longer hull. Then the the Concordia and Serena used the Conquest platform and then added a few more features. The next version was the Splendour class this saw the aft pool loose its covering. The most drastic change to this class of ship came with the Dream version. This saw the most dramatic change in this class of ship. But as you can see the Concordia is a cousin of the Destiny. Take a look at the Destiny's deck plan and compare it to the Concordia and you will see many, many similarities.

 

Personally I think Carnival Corp. should take a break from this class of ship which its archetectual design dates back to the mid 90's.

 

Take a look at www.shipparade.com and go to the ship index you can compare specs and exterior pics there.

[dizzy1948]

On BBC World News not 20 mins ago - they have specific divers on board to get the black box out.

[degarr]

On BBC World News not 20 mins ago - they have specific divers on board to get the black box out.

 

There are photos on this thread showing people getting the orange (black box) from above the surface so I believe it is media getting it a bit wrong unless there is a black box in addition to the orange one they removed

[Nikki Lisette]

Okay before this tragedy I was naive in thinking that ships sink horizontally. Or rather it never occurred to me that some life boats would be rendered useless because of the ship's position in the water. Kinda bothers me too because I'm a worry-wart and I like to have a plan of escape in all scenarios. Reading the survivors tales just gives me the chills. And the language barrier... :eek:

[Nikki Lisette]

On BBC World News not 20 mins ago - they have specific divers on board to get the black box out.

 

I thought they took that box out on Saturday? I saw numerous postings (and pics) about it in this very thread. I could be wrong...

[Nikki Lisette]

Despite the bad timing, this is the busiest time for cruise bookings so unless all the lines pull their ads I doubt any will pull their ads.

 

I know my wife is a bit more nervous about sailing right this moment since there is no definitive answer as to what happened. Of course it is early for definitive answers.

 

I just hope the missing count declines and the survivor count increases as the sun comes out today.

 

I'm not picking on your Rancher Dave but this is the busiest time for cruising? Are ya sure? I always find great deals for cruising 1st thing in the new year. Just wondering. Have a good night! :)

[Davyjonesrugrat]

If they hit in open waters and started taking on water, alarms would have sounded immediately. You don't wait til you hit a rocky coast before you sound alarms, anyone below water line must be altered.

 

And then hit twice? Woops ... I hit an "uncharted" reef, more than 100' below sea level, head 8 miles towards that island and smash into the coast, let's do it again!

I am finding it hard to follow your brief.

My understanding is that a loud bang was heard, the lights went off and the ship lurched to port, this was between 8 and 9 pm.

 

The relevant AIS charts provide by other CC members indicate that the vessel was mid stream during this period. Well aware from all well known obsticles both charted and visual.

 

Recently there has been a lot of Volcanic activity in Italy especially over the last year or so, even Mount Etna in Naples has been very actiive. Earthquakes as Im sure you are aware are normally caused by tutonic plates move againts or towards each other and thus the terrain, whether on the land or the sea bed is likely to change.

 

There have been no recent nautical surveys conducted over that area in recent times so it is possible that a sea mount may have risen in the area that we are not aware of.

 

The AIS plots shown dont all convey the same message, some some of the tracks are obviously different from the others. The only real source will be from the box recovered by the Police.

 

AIS is not generally a real time device, it may be delayed by transmissions from the ship, this is possibly why the AIS Chart shows the vessel pointing north and the ship lying southwards. There, in my view, is nothing sinister about this.

 

The passengers confirmed the loud bang, the electrics going off and also that there was approx 1 hr before any declaration of an Emergency at no time have I heard anyone confirming a second bang, shudder or event.

 

The actions of attempting to counter balance the water ingress is likely, however if the ship did turn with this amount of water onboard then it could have caused it to capsize though the pictures of the ship looking at the port side shows the vessel down by the stern with the lower port holes, evident towards the front gradually disappearing underwater thus showing that the ships is still taking water onboardthat the crew would not be able to compensate for

[caribill]

I'm not picking on your Rancher Dave but this is the busiest time for cruising? Are ya sure? I always find great deals for cruising 1st thing in the new year. Just wondering. Have a good night! :)

 

It's the busiest time for selling cruises, not taking therm.

[ObscureAllure]

Omgosh! Just got a text saying that they located a third survivor in the ship on a lower deck! I hope this is true! Really going to bed now -

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Starlight Durban Cruising]

I know the news reports are not accurate that this point, but I read the 3 that died jumped off the ship. Is the water very cold this time of the year?

 

Also Winter there, so I'd guess just as cold as the waters off of New York / New Hampshire areas.

[maddie2312]

Sky News UK reporting from Reuters saying "voice contact has now been made with 3rd person on deck 3"Amazing after all this time and hope that others will also be found.

[Davyjonesrugrat]

Now that I have a few posters that have supported me rather than attempt to tear me down, I feel more comfortable answering some questions. Aboard container ships and tankers that I served on, of course we had a pilot come aboard for his intimate knowledge of local waters and also had tug assistance because our ships could not maneuver the way a modern cruise ship is able to in tight quarters.

People were not questioning your 'knowledge' they were questioning your arrogance in 'all things American flagged'