Costa Concordia SINKING

[CTNYER]

The CC Q&A section is rather helpful, but I'm wondering how far the ship was listing before the alarm was sounded. It seems as if the Concordia immediately began listing, and if the Capt waited an hour to blow the emergency horns, it must have been listing quite badly, no?

[astrocruises]

Strange she is shot in front of rocky outcrops

 

One wonders how many seamounts the captain hit that day.

[dagmarnyman]

To try and explain the basic pricipals of stability I have put forward a suggestion on what might have occured.

 

When alongside a ship whilst loading has to ensure that the weight is evenly distributed, care is taken make sure both sides receive the same weight at appx the same time. . In the case of the Concordia, a sudden and drastic breach occurred whilst undertaking a sail past of the island of Giglio. The breach on the port side allowed an ingress of water into the ship into what may have been the Engine room, the generator room and the engine control room (As indicated by the officer sent by the Capt to see what damage has been caused by the contact)

 

The ship was now beginning to list to port, how much the water tight integrity had been impaired I cant say but to possibly try and compensate for the ingress of water from the port side and to stabilise the ship tanks on the starboard side might have been flooded to try and level the ship out. The next problem may have arisen when they dropped the anchor and stopped the forward movement of the ship and to both turn the ship around and prepare for abandoning the ship.

 

With the ship now swinging around the water inside the vessel is now moving from the port side to the starboard side, this with the additional tanks flooded caused the vessel to start listing on the starboard side.

 

The Engine room, as far as I can gather (On most ships) covers the ship from side to side, if this is flooded then its the full compartment. If you look at some of the pictures taken when the boat is still afloat you can see that the concordia is well down at the stern, you can see this by following the line of Port holes/scuttles aft and see how they disappear underwater. Water must still be entering the ship into compartments that have not been sealed. Only a full report by the salvors or the dockyard would be able to confirm this.

 

A lot of this is conjecture but these are normally the steps that are taken in maritime circles when loading ships or moving ships in ballast.

 

The ship at present is now partly resting on the bottom and its starboard side is resting on some rocks on the foreshore. With the increased choppy seas the ship is moving, this is due to some bouyancy remaining in the vessel. If and when they decide to remove the contents of the fuel tanks (17 Different tanks) the are going to have to replace the contents with something that shares the same approximate weight otherwise buoyancy would be affected and she could end up slipping down the seabed into deeper water.

 

Hope this helps somewhat.

rgds

 

Well - a big - actually enormous whole is a major problem, in particular for anything that is made out of steel and weighs more than water! I would prefer a captain who does not venture into shallow waters between rocks causing a 160 foot genuine can-opening substantial opening - some 8 feet horizontally. No ship can take that. One would have presumed that the rock which subsequently became lodged into the port side of the hull - could have helped to counter-weight when they decided to go port to port with a sudden desperate change of course. With so much water in the wrong place - it just tilts in any case.

There is how-ever no risque that this very special Playboy will get a new job.

http://travel.usatoday.com/cruises/story/2012-01-16/Vacationing-couple-plunged-into-chaos/52602722/1

[umieesa]

When my husband listened to the conversation between the captain and coast guard he said the captain sounded like he was "high". Now, he hasn't been following the story at all like I have, but I found his comment interesting knowing that there were reports of him seen with this mystery woman having drinks in the dining room. The captain's voice leaves an impression of someone really relaxed and without knowing the context you'd think nothing's going wrong by the way he's speaking. :confused:

 

There's no gravity to the situation. Two times he said "buona sera" (good evening) to the commander...not saying he should've been rude, but come on, if you see that the ship is listing and you yourself abandoned it...how can you be so calm and friendly?! I would be shouting..."we need help" or something along these lines to show the severity of the situation. It's like he's not all there!

 

Did anyone else get this impression?

[Davyjonesrugrat]

I feel that there are some lessons to be learnt from this incident, the main one is the actions of Captains in taking their vessels too close to land and off recognised routes. For most companies it would come down to one thing and that is money however we already have a system that could be used to monitor the actions of ships Captains. The only problem that I can see would be storage of the information at their own office which should be stored for a suitable length of time (7 Years in my view would be a good start) This data would not take up a lot of bytes (Maybe some computer wizard might confirm this)

 

Around the United Kingdom every Coastguard station has AIS, this allows us to monitor all shipping within UK waters, this information can be recalled to be used in legal proceedings if necessary. This can be against any ship that is infringing the maritime laws of the UK and does not matter on the flag of registry.

 

I hope that the IMO come together to ensure that the ship companies are required by law to stored navigational data that would then prove or disprove any problems with safe navigation or ship casualty.

 

Member states can enforce this but it needs a unified front to ensure that shipping companies are empowered to do it.

 

rgds

[Michigan Cookies]

Thank you Milaandra for the "OZ PACK " support. We always, on board and onshore, have it with us... it's no good locked in your cabin if you are unable to get to your cabin. It fits in my trouser pocket with the laynard looped around my belt without being too obvious and fits easily in my wife's purse.

 

Let me add my thanks too, Ozcruiser. We'll be taking some version of your Oz Pack when next we cruise. As I posted earlier, I believe we cruisers will all view the Muster differently from this point on. My husband & I will locate and try on our lifejackets (regardless of ship's policy), make certain we know our routes & exits, read the small print in the emergency materials. The photo of that mega ship lying pathetically on its side --- haunting.

[JJSMaine]

 

They should have been able to get everyone off that ship in well under an hour. If muster and abandon would have been ordered right away. There aren't many ways to evacuate after the ship totally sinks or capsizes.

 

 

This is where it all comes to a point.

 

There was ample time to have evacuated the ship prior to the severe list to starboard.

 

The confusion was directly the result of piss poor ( being generous here) communication. The chain of command broke down and it was obvious that the crew had no confidence in their officers.

 

LYING to passengers caused panic and undermined the confidence the crew and passengers had in their leadership.... you are damn right I am jumping off a sinking ship if the crew is unable to act.

 

If not up against the shore the death toll would have been much much higher because the ship would likely have completely rolled.

 

 

Too many bad decisions stacked up, and each one was preventable. Each situation was tied to the one before and it appears this captain completely lost it... and people have died.

 

There is no excuse... that some other ship did it might well be answered by "if your brother jumped off a bridge, would you?" This captain lost sight of his responsibility and became caviler with 4200 lives and a half billion dollar ship.

 

 

I will revert back to my statement that this person should have never been put in charge of such a responsibility and the cruise line should have been able to weed out a person that could take such risks and then not be able to handle an emergency... I think the shock to his own ego was so severe, he was unable to process it and act... he is a coward of the highest degree... some cowards would never be able to hold the gun, but this guy pretended he had all the skills, made it through training , but he choked when it got ugly.

 

Cruise Lines MUST vet their Captains so this brand of personality disorder, yes a disorder because what else can you call it when a person endangers the lives of thousands because they just didn't think, we know the brain doesn't develop the "hey I might kill myself" portion until we are 26 years old or so, maybe his never did?

 

 

I'm not sure which is worse.. his reckless Bravado and the act of hitting the rock, or his complete abdication of his responsibility to the passengers and crew.

[degarr]

One wonders how many seamounts the captain hit that day.

This board needs a "Like Button" :)

[Ozcruiser1]

The biggest safety problem seems to be that a 20 degree list is enough to interfere with the launching of the prominent side's lifeboats. That's come up again and again over decades of maritime accidents.

 

I think they need a better way to control the release of lifeboats.

 

Either some mechanism that suspends them further away from the side, some sort of "slide" that can be deployed in a list situation (I keep thinking of those big inflatable slides they use for emergency airplane evacuations), or...my favourite...putting the lifeboats onto a mechanism like a giant electric tie rack, that will move new lifeboats into position once the first accessible ones are away. :D Yeah, I know, it's pretty obvious I don't have a degree in engineering... (It reminds me of Armageddon where they talk about the coyote/roadrunner slingshot move...)

 

I’m no engineer but it would appear to me that a slight adjustment to the “bumper” to make it a heavy duty rubber roller would allow the life raft to “roll” down the side of a listing ship whilst being lowered. Rather than the problem of trying to overcome the friction/ inability to clear the side of the listing ship as has been indicated by recent events.

 

 

The "bumper" appears on the side of life raft in the foreground.

I've attached a pdf file with a closer pic of the said "bumper"

Life boat design-1.pdf

[Nitemare]

UNBELIVABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16152275

 

A: This is SkyNews. Take it for what it's worth

B: This "executive" is an assistant cruise director. Hardly a representative of the cruiseline.

 

 

 

Just because you read something on the internet doesn't make it true. Do a tiny bit of research (I googled her name and found her LinkedIn profile immediately), before posting UNBELIEVABLE news.

[JJSMaine]

One wonders how many seamounts the captain hit that day.

 

 

Perhaps you meant she-mounts?

[Davyjonesrugrat]

The "bumper" appears on the side of life raft in the foreground.

 

There are two problems associated with a listing ship.

 

1. If the ship is listing to port, then the lifeboats on that side will swing away from the ship and thus it is hard to get passengers into them, they would need to be held against the ship which would be very hard manually. I am not aware if there is a facility to be able to do this.

2. The boats on the starboard side have the opposite problem, they need to be held away from the ship or have wheels on that side that would allow them to run down the side of the ship, however port holes and windows would cause a problem as the wheels would be impeded with them.

 

The lifeboat system needs to be further investigated to see if a new method of launching can be made to overcome these problems, a longshort I feel though

[degarr]

"Thanks above" we are no longer talking Insurance. With Many years in the industry I am glad all that noise has gone.

JJSMaine = Absolute common sense, great comments

Ozcruiser1 = Get your patent in quick, great idea, before I steal it and cruise 365 days per year on the royalties :)

[moniquet]

I wonder if the captain was tested for drink and drugs as soon as he landed:confused:

[EVALUATOR]

A: This is SkyNews. Take it for what it's worth

B: This "executive" is an assistant cruise director. Hardly a representative of the cruiseline.

 

 

 

Just because you read something on the internet doesn't make it true. Do a tiny bit of research (I googled her name and found her LinkedIn profile immediately), before posting UNBELIEVABLE news.

 

You don't think an assistant cruise director is a representative of the cruise line?

[EVALUATOR]

I wonder if the captain was tested for drink and drugs as soon as he landed:confused:

 

Nope.:mad:

[Nitemare]

You don't think an assistant cruise director is a representative of the cruise line?

 

To speak to the media? No. To teach me the Hokey Pokey? Sure.

 

That's like if the assistant manager at a local McDonald's responded to a botulism incident. They don't have nearly the facts or broad view to be considered a spokesperson for a corporation.

 

The headline called her a "Cruise Boss". Do you consider an assistant cruise director to be a "Cruise Boss"?

[TMLAalum]

With every new update The Plot Sickens.....

[TheBestIsYetToCome]

When my husband listened to the conversation between the captain and coast guard he said the captain sounded like he was "high". Now, he hasn't been following the story at all like I have, but I found his comment interesting knowing that there were reports of him seen with this mystery woman having drinks in the dining room. The captain's voice leaves an impression of someone really relaxed and without knowing the context you'd think nothing's going wrong by the way he's speaking. :confused:

 

There's no gravity to the situation. Two times he said "buona sera" (good evening) to the commander...not saying he should've been rude, but come on, if you see that the ship is listing and you yourself abandoned it...how can you be so calm and friendly?! I would be shouting..."we need help" or something along these lines to show the severity of the situation. It's like he's not all there!

 

Did anyone else get this impression?

 

Yes, I was unnerved by his casual demeanor, as well. On the one hand, he behaved in the emergency like he was having a total emotional meltdown, and on the other, during this conversation, he seems unfazed. Weird!!

[JJSMaine]

To speak to the media? No. To teach me the Hokey Pokey? Sure.

 

That's like if the assistant manager at a local McDonald's responded to a botulism incident. They don't have nearly the facts or broad view to be considered a spokesperson for a corporation.

 

 

Look at it as damage control..

 

...they raised a flag of protest, maybe just to gauge public opinion... so they know how to react next... any amount of blame they can deflect will help them save $$$ in the long run.. despicable yes, but these are corporations... they have only one target and that is $$$ .. it comes before all else... Ooops.. it comes before all else except a CYA move if required, at which point the Stockholders can pay instead... which they will.

 

ANy change is this industry will come from a drop in stock and complaints by the stock holders. They are the movers and shakers. The industry would like us to believe we are their customers, but the reality is that it is the stockholders.

 

So they send this Jr cruise director out to make a statement and see what kind of flak it draws. This allows them to show some attempt to play down the situation and gives them a way to measure how the public is reacting.

 

This is going to back fire on Costa ( even if this CD is a maverick ( what another one??!) and is speaking on her own.) as it seems quite clear that the confusion of the crew was the cause of the panic, beyond that the ship did hit something and was listing,... the video shows that confusion and panic.. it also records the false statements from the bridge regarding the condition of the ship.

 

You cannot lie to 4200 people in this situation and expect them not to panic.

 

This is the 3rd huge criminal act... he hit the rock for #1, he delayed the abandon ship call, and he increased damages by lying to the ship.

 

 

His immaturity SCREAMS that he should have never been on a ship, let alone a Captain... and it all falls directly in the lap of the Costa Management, and if I were a stockholder I would have dumped my CCL stock in direct protest of a management culture that would allow such reprehensible behavior.

[JJSMaine]

Yes, I was unnerved by his casual demeanor, as well. On the one hand, he behaved in the emergency like he was having a total emotional meltdown, and on the other, during this conversation, he seems unfazed. Weird!!

 

 

Popping several Ativan or Valium would have that effect.

[bahrain_not_dubai!]

 

 

I'm not sure which is worse.. his reckless Bravado and the act of hitting the rock, or his complete abdication of his responsibility to the passengers and crew.

 

IMHO one stems from another- across history, and perhaps even in mundane dealings you will find the most egoistical, the most prone to preform reckless acts of bravado to be the most cowardly and first to flee. The acts of bravado itself usually comes from feeling they are lacking in another way. No matter what happened on Concordia, it isn't hard to see what the Captain's personality was 'lacking'.

[umieesa]

They should've done a breathalizer or something after the accident. He may not have been in a proper mindset when the accident occurred.

 

And yes, he does sound totally unfazed as if nothing serious is even taking place. Completely odd! :confused:

[Nitemare]

Look at it as damage control..

 

...they raised a flag of protest, maybe just to gauge public opinion... so they know how to react next... any amount of blame they can deflect will help them save $$$ in the long run.. despicable yes, but these are corporations... they have only one target and that is $$$ .. it comes before all else... Ooops.. it comes before all else except a CYA move if required, at which point the Stockholders can pay instead... which they will.

 

ANy change is this industry will come from a drop in stock and complaints by the stock holders. They are the movers and shakers. The industry would like us to believe we are their customers, but the reality is that it is the stockholders.

 

So they send this Jr cruise director out to make a statement and see what kind of flak it draws. This allows them to show some attempt to play down the situation and gives them a way to measure how the public is reacting.

 

This is going to back fire on Costa ( even if this CD is a maverick ( what another one??!) and is speaking on her own.) as it seems quite clear that the confusion of the crew was the cause of the panic, beyond that the ship did hit something and was listing,... the video shows that confusion and panic.. it also records the false statements from the bridge regarding the condition of the ship.

 

You cannot lie to 4200 people in this situation and expect them not to panic.

 

This is the 3rd huge criminal act... he hit the rock for #1, he delayed the abandon ship call, and he increased damages by lying to the ship.

 

 

His immaturity SCREAMS that he should have never been on a ship, let alone a Captain... and it all falls directly in the lap of the Costa Management, and if I were a stockholder I would have dumped my CCL stock in direct protest of a management culture that would allow such reprehensible behavior.

 

As pointed out in the other thread about this article, she printed an open letter. No one at Costa or Carnival told her to do this as a trial balloon.

 

Of course the corporation is going to try to cover their butts. This isn't how they are doing it.

[Ozcruiser1]

"Thanks above" we are no longer talking Insurance. With Many years in the industry I am glad all that noise has gone.

JJSMaine = Absolute common sense, great comments

Ozcruiser1 = Get your patent in quick, great idea, before I steal it and cruise 365 days per year on the royalties :)

 

Thanks for the positive support. Go ya halves! (we aussies have to stick together)