Costa Concordia SINKING

[degarr]

Captain Bosio is the Captain of the Costa Serena. He was off duty and was a passenger aboard the Costa Concordia on his way to begin his vacation time beginning, I believe in Serona. He just happened to be aboard the Concordia as a means to get to vacation. The airlines do this all the time, they call it "Dead Heading"

 

Joanie

And will probably come out as a "real captain" during this event albeit he was off duty

[Uniall]

Costa has reported that Domnica was a registered guest with a ticket. She says she was a registered guest with a cabin and she still has her cabin key.

 

Thanks for posting that item, I missed it. It's possible that Costa Cruise Line's report that Donmica was registered is a cover story or it could be true and involve a subsection of their "Friends & Family" (NCL's term) List. That would put her in a catagory in between Crew and Pasengers.

 

My past experience makes me suspicious that this is an after the fact cover up and it's more likely that Costa has allowed senior crew to bring unregistered guests aboard without listing them on the manifest to avoid having to pay port charges and taxes. I readily admit that my career long "suspicion batting average" was probably around .500. :D

 

But, when I heard the first reports of the "accident", I said to "She who must be obeyed": I wonder if the Italian Captain was preoccupied with a lady friend? ;)

[UMDCruiseProf]

I believe some of the "On Topic" police have had a negative impact on Cruise Critic's underlying concept of amiable and amicable "Community."

 

Good post... well said... especially the part above.

 

CC forums are VERY informative and full of people with different backgrounds, cultures, etc. It would be a shame (and inaccurate) to appear intolerant. I definitely shied away from participating for a long time because I just didn't have extra energy to deal with the... well.... how do you say it... 'bickersons' who show up here sometimes. I just didn't want to post something and then have a wave of negativity (sorry for the ocean pun) wash back my way.

 

But... the Concordia disaster changed that.

 

I just couldn't hold my tongue and, admittedly selfishly, I felt the need to discuss this with others. I spend a LOT of time and effort on the cruise industry but do not exactly have a lot of other folks interested in the details of a subject like the sinking. [ I could say: "I've suffered for my cruise class... and now it's your turn!" ;) ]

 

In developing and teaching a course on the cruise industry I have found the posters on cruise critic to be a incredibly valuable resource. How many people in real life do you run into who have taken 100+ cruises? This spring will mark the first time I will take students on an actual cruise (with a trip on each end of the cruise to visit RC HQ in Miami to meet senior execs and participate in and idea competition) so I'm counting on each student using CC as a resource on what to expect... what to take... what to do... what to wear... etc. Isn't that what CC is all about?

 

And finally... as in real life... you never know what someone will bring to the forum table, as it were. If we were all to talk about our seagoing experiences (and those of our immediate loved ones) many of the stories would be amazing. [For example... a few years back... my parents luxury river cruise boat was struck in Rotterdam by a freighter at something like 10 knots. Tables flipped over, things dropped out of closets (and onto passengers), there were passenger injuries, and worst yet: they started to sink. They came about 5 minutes away from dropping lifeboats. Luckily... several returning tugs raced over and pushed the cruiser into a shallow dock where big pumps could be brought in and the cruiser patched, all while maintaining service to passengers. You get them going and they have a LOT to say about the Concordia.

 

Point is... trying to be open to, welcoming, and understanding of new posters will make for a better CC forum in all cases. If you have an issue... press the red triangle and ignore, ignore, ignore.

[degarr]

'Disaster day-trippers' have flocked from all over Italy, many driving for hours, to see the 1,000ft-long, 14-storey luxury liner wedged at an angle of 90 degrees, ten days after it ran aground off the Tuscan island of Giglio.

 

But their curiosity has been criticised as "morbid" by islanders, who say they are being overwhelmed by the influx.

 

Ferries which run from the mainland port of Porto Santo Stefano to the island were full on Saturday and yesterday, with families and couples drinking beer and eating pizza on the smooth sandstone rocks and patches of sand opposite the capsized ship.

 

"We wanted to show the kids because this is a historic event, it's like the Titanic," said Lino Amato, 49, who had driven with his family two hours from Florence and taken the hour-long ferry crossing.

 

His wife, Sharon Murray, originally from Dublin, said she was interested in the tragedy because she had once worked on Costa cruise ships.

 

"It's hard to imagine you could sink a ship like that," Ms Murray, 42, said.

Some of the tourists who were taking photographs and video of the wreck in the winter sunshine had come from as far away as Turin – a six hour drive.

Stefano Lagorio, 35, a truck driver from Genoa, said he had seen the Costa Concordia being built in the city's shipyards before it was launched in 2006.

"I had a friend who worked on it. We saw the pictures on the TV but we wanted to see it for real."

While Giglio is packed with holidaymakers in the summer, during the winter most hotels and shops are closed and the island is all but deserted.

But the spectacular sight of the Costa Concordia rammed up against one of its rocky bays has led to a sudden spike in visitors.

On the Saturday before the accident, just 131 tourists disembarked from ferries. A week on, that figure was more than 1,000.

"The ferries are full. It's all a bit morbid," said Elisa Arienti, from the island's tiny tourist office.

"People are ringing up asking about hotels but we don't want to encourage them, we're asking them to wait and come to the island in another month perhaps. Right now it's the worst time to visit, the island is so busy with rescue workers. They need to get on with their jobs."

The search and rescue effort involves hundreds of personnel from a bewildering array of Italy's emergency services, including the fire service, the navy, several police forces, the coast guard, the Civil Protection Authority and even the Forestry Corps.

Gianlucca Pigini, 27, who runs the Hotel Demo's on the seafront, said he had received dozens of requests for rooms by curious tourists.

"It does seem a bit odd, although I wouldn't condemn people who come here to look. There's huge interest."

[a3593]

Wow...morbid can't decribe it!! :mad: I can understand going to visit to pay respects, etc, but to be eating pizza/beer, and making an excursion out of it??! Foul.

[shipfriend_max]

Have you heard what they've said on the news? The captain blames Costa & carnival because he "had to pass the island so closely"!

 

I am so happy that the itinerary changes don't effect our two itineraries!!! :)

 

I also read that they will decide today evening how the fuel will be pumped out!

 

[UMDCruiseProf]

Changes need to be made <snip>

 

...but the cruise company also needs to be held accountable. They are not innocents in this disaster. And I think more will be revealed eventually than the legends being spun out about the Captain, about the safety culture of the cruise company.

 

This is an important point and something that I teach at length in a course called "Why Good Managers Make Bad Decisions". Company culture is a very powerful force in potentially positive and negative ways. If Costa developed and nurtured a culture of being lax towards the operations, regulations, and procedures aboard their vessels this would definitely ripple out to their officers, staff, management, etc. And the behavior we've heard about would be a likely outcome.

 

And heck... we all know companies where the positive and negative cultures are found in every location... and in seemingly every employee's attitude. For example... walk into any Nordstroms and tell me how it looks... how it's being run... how they treat their customers. How about The Container Store? And on the negative side? Where do you start, right? Every Yum Foods (Pepsi owned) company... and that would be KFC, Taco Bell, Pizza Hut, Wings Street, etc... is like walking into a living museum of poor customer service and bad attitudes. How about Kinkos? Or the store you love to hate: Best Buy? In each example their culture is not a fluke... it comes from the very core of the company. It's entrenched, as it were.

 

My friends and coworkers know I cruise a lot and want to know what I think. I tell them this was an unusual event and that the cruise companies will have to make changes. They will have to decide whether they think it is safe to cruise. I think it is relatively safe and have one booked from before the disaster which I still plan to do, and I also still plan to book one or two other cruises this year.

 

Statistically... cruising is one of the safest ways to travel, if not THE safest. That will not stop some people's negative perceptions after this incident. But... I don't see anything but continued growth in this industry. What amazes me is when I hear the captain of the Oasis of the Seas (who was also one of her key developers) note that this amazing ship has not even come close to the limits of current engineering. Bigger more luxurious ships (can you imagine?) will be coming (and I can't wait). That's a certainty given the success of the Oasis/Allure's business model.

 

That's not to say that safety will be ignored. I think, and I bet you agree, that we'll see some big design, policy, and procedural changes that will positively enhance cruising safety and passenger experiences. The only silver lining in the Concordia mess will be all the accidents and lives lost that WILL NOT happen because of this.

[cubella59]

Can you please post the link? That just gives me shivers...

 

 

Has this been mentioned before?

"Francesco Schettino, the cruise ship captain accused of steering the Costa Concordia into rocks on the island of Giglio in a reckless bid to "salute" the island, has reportedly said he was ordered to carry out the manoeuvre by ship owner Costa Crociere.

"The salute at Giglio on 13 January was planned and wanted by Costa before the departure from Civitavecchia," Schettino told a judge investigating the collision, according to transcripts leaked to Italian newspaper La Repubblica.

At least 12 people died trying to escape from the vessel as it listed on rocks following the collision. Schettino is being held under house arrest accused of manslaughter, causing a shipwreck and abandoning ship.

Schettino said the "salute" should have been carried out a week earlier, but was put off due to bad weather.

He reportedly told the investigating judge that there was "insistence" by the firm on carrying out such manoeuvres, because it was a good way to promote its cruises.

"Costa was aware of the repeated practice of 'saluting' around the world," said Schettino."

[Aplmac]

'Disaster day-trippers' have flocked from all over Italy, many driving for hours, to see the 1,000ft-long, 14-storey luxury liner wedged at an angle of 90 degrees, ten days after it ran aground off the Tuscan island of Giglio.

 

But their curiosity has been criticised as "morbid" by islanders, who say they are being overwhelmed by the influx.

 

Ferries which run from the mainland port of Porto Santo Stefano to the island were full on Saturday and yesterday, with families and couples drinking beer and eating pizza on the smooth sandstone rocks and patches of sand opposite the capsized ship.

 

"We wanted to show the kids because this is a historic event, it's like the Titanic," said Lino Amato, 49, who had driven with his family two hours from Florence and taken the hour-long ferry crossing.

 

His wife, Sharon Murray, originally from Dublin, said she was interested in the tragedy because she had once worked on Costa cruise ships.

 

"It's hard to imagine you could sink a ship like that," Ms Murray, 42, said.

Some of the tourists who were taking photographs and video of the wreck in the winter sunshine had come from as far away as Turin – a six hour drive.

Stefano Lagorio, 35, a truck driver from Genoa, said he had seen the Costa Concordia being built in the city's shipyards before it was launched in 2006.

"I had a friend who worked on it. We saw the pictures on the TV but we wanted to see it for real."

While Giglio is packed with holidaymakers in the summer, during the winter most hotels and shops are closed and the island is all but deserted.

But the spectacular sight of the Costa Concordia rammed up against one of its rocky bays has led to a sudden spike in visitors.

On the Saturday before the accident, just 131 tourists disembarked from ferries. A week on, that figure was more than 1,000.

"The ferries are full. It's all a bit morbid," said Elisa Arienti, from the island's tiny tourist office.

"People are ringing up asking about hotels but we don't want to encourage them, we're asking them to wait and come to the island in another month perhaps. Right now it's the worst time to visit, the island is so busy with rescue workers. They need to get on with their jobs."

The search and rescue effort involves hundreds of personnel from a bewildering array of Italy's emergency services, including the fire service, the navy, several police forces, the coast guard, the Civil Protection Authority and even the Forestry Corps.

Gianlucca Pigini, 27, who runs the Hotel Demo's on the seafront, said he had received dozens of requests for rooms by curious tourists.

"It does seem a bit odd, although I wouldn't condemn people who come here to look. There's huge interest."

It's human nature!

 

"Look what didn't happen to us, and we should learn from this."

The kids will never forget the Titanic-esque sight of a dead cruise ship lying on its side!

 

With Titanic in something like 12,000 ft. of water

no-one ever had the "privilege" of viewing her dead body.

.

[Milaandra]

So which way are you betting Milaandra? (registered guest with a ticket or other?)

 

Hmmmm...

 

This is a phone call from Hungarian relatives to an Italian official, then reported in English. So there have to be some language barriers, right off the bat.

 

Costa hasn't responded yet, but it can't be that easy to smuggle anyone on to a ship. Certainly not at the passenger level. We've all been through embarkation and shore excursions. And from what I have seen in documentaries, even pretty high level employees don't get their own cabin. (Despite what we see in Poseidon movies) Even crew have to scan on and off the ship. We've seen crew go ashore in Bermuda. So if you could manage somehow to sneak them on, there's still the risk of sneaking them back off again. Then there is the motivation. You wouldn't be able to enjoy yourself and a Mediterrean cruise can't really be considered a great way to get from Italy to, say, Spain. If you can get from Hungary to Italy, you can get from Hungary to Spain without stowing away.

 

My guess is registered.

 

There were 11 Hungarians listed as passengers, plus at least one Hungarian violinist. (I don't know if the guest entertainers are included with passengers or crew) With the addition of the language barrier, and that the Hungarian relatives spoke to someone from outside the cruise company, there may have been an error in names or something. Between the romance languages and slavic languages, there is quite a difference in how things are written and pronounced.

[Milaandra]

[For example... a few years back... my parents luxury river cruise boat was struck in Rotterdam by a freighter at something like 10 knots. Tables flipped over, things dropped out of closets (and onto passengers), there were passenger injuries, and worst yet: they started to sink. They came about 5 minutes away from dropping lifeboats. Luckily... several returning tugs raced over and pushed the cruiser into a shallow dock where big pumps could be brought in and the cruiser patched, all while maintaining service to passengers.

 

Just out of curiosity, how long before the impact to the tug rescue? I'd like to have a more current example of how long it takes from collision to the point of abandon ship.

[Daisyloo]

It was more of a hit piece on the cruise industry in general. Somehow, I recall seeing much of this sometime previous. Am I correct this was a rehash of another broadcast with a snippet of Concordia included?

 

I agree with you. I was disappointed in how little time was devoted to the Concordia disaster.

Pat

[Milaandra]

Can you please post the link? That just gives me shivers...

 

Here's the google translation of the Italian article if you are interested.

 

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.repubblica.it%2Fcronaca%2F2012%2F01%2F22%2Fnews%2Fcosta_inchino-28555394%2F&act=url

[Uniall]

Hmmmm...

 

This is a phone call from Hungarian relatives to an Italian official, then reported in English. So there have to be some language barriers, right off the bat.

 

Costa hasn't responded yet, but it can't be that easy to smuggle anyone on to a ship. Certainly not at the passenger level. We've all been through embarkation and shore excursions. And from what I have seen in documentaries, even pretty high level employees don't get their own cabin. (Despite what we see in Poseidon movies) Even crew have to scan on and off the ship. We've seen crew go ashore in Bermuda. So if you could manage somehow to sneak them on, there's still the risk of sneaking them back off again. Then there is the motivation. You wouldn't be able to enjoy yourself and a Mediterrean cruise can't really be considered a great way to get from Italy to, say, Spain. If you can get from Hungary to Italy, you can get from Hungary to Spain without stowing away.

 

My guess is registered.

 

There were 11 Hungarians listed as passengers, plus at least one Hungarian violinist. (I don't know if the guest entertainers are included with passengers or crew) With the addition of the language barrier, and that the Hungarian relatives spoke to someone from outside the cruise company, there may have been an error in names or something. Between the romance languages and slavic languages, there is quite a different in how things are written and pronounced.

 

I think we have to define the term: "registered".

 

If you mean a key card which is produced by the ship and can be ordered by the Captain or Hotel Director (Purser) that may well be true.

 

If you mean on the Ship's Manifest, as required by law, it may be less likely if on this trip Donmica was not a crew member but rather a "friend" or "comapanion" :D of an officer.

 

Time will tell, but my "prosecutor's mindset" makes me suspect the later. :eek:

[Princess Patches]

News coming through here that there may have been 'unregistered' passengers on board.

 

Yes, I read that too. The latest soul found is a woman who may be an "unregistered" passenger and that the number of missing may rise because of a number of "unregistered" passengers on board. Here is one article about it:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16670412

[Aplmac]

Costa hasn't responded yet, but it can't be that easy to smuggle anyone on to a ship.

===> Oh yeah? Wanna bet it's happened before?

Certainly not at the passenger level. ===> Ah that's more like it.

Possibility one of the crew managed to have her smuggled on board

thru their special crew entrance denied to us paying cruisers.

 

Bet that's not that hard to accomplish

especially if the smuggler 'has something' on the security guard at checkpoint

 

or agrees to "share the spoils" later... :)

.

[HelloHelloHola]

Yes, I read that too. The latest soul found is a woman who may be an "unregistered" passenger and that the number of missing may rise because of a number of "unregistered" passengers on board. Here is one article about it:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16670412

 

 

Thanks for the link, the word used, as quoted, is "illegals". What a total mess this whole thing is.

[luckybogey]

Has anyone heard or read anything that the VDR was not working and the Captain's PC is missing? Repubblica has another story that the VDR was not turned on and not working for the last 15 days. Any other sources besides Repubblica?

 

English Translation

 

The ' investigation. On the front of the investigations, as the details emerge on Commander Francis Scehttino said to gip di Grosseto during the interrogation of ' guarantee. Starting with the fact that, in his opinion, by two weeks the black box was no longer able to record communications between officers. Second Schettino, who would have to resolve the problem had been informed, but was not successful. If the statements made by the Commander of the Costa Concordia were true, the black box would be useful only to reconstruct the data. According to rumors, the pm of Grosseto are also looking for the laptop that Schettino led off the ship and entrusted to a blonde girl. When the computer has not yet been recovered, but prosecutors have identified the woman. According to what they have learned the woman would be a lawyer, although it is not clear whether Costa Cruises or a freelancer, whose relations with stakeholders are yet to be shown. Prosecutors want to examine your pc because, considering the haste with which it was ' changed hands ' speculate that may contain important data. By ' crew Meanwhile arrives a declaration in favour of Schettino by Katia Keyvanian, head of the Costa Concordia customer service: " I saw the Commander before me to 23:45 while he was helping passengers to climb into lifeboats on deck 3 bow ", said the ' used.

 

Dispersi e identificati. Nel fornire gli ultimi aggiornamenti sulla situazione, il commissario delegato all'emergenza Franco Gabrielli ha fatto presente che "a bordo di Costa Concordia potrebbero esserci stati clandestini", cioé persone imbarcate senza essere registrate. Nel corso della conferenza stampa, il responsabile della Protezione civile ha confermato che le vittime accertate sono 13: otto sono state identificate (sono quattro francesi, un italiano, un ungherese, un tedesco e uno spagnolo) e quattro, tre uomini e due donne, non hanno ancora un nome. L'ultimo corpo recuperato è quello di una donna, a poppa del relitto della Concordia.

In considerazione di questi aspetti, Gabrielli ha chiesto ai giornalisti di "astenersi da operazioni di sottrazione matematica" che "possono solo confondere ulteriormente le idee" perché "non abbiamo la certezza che le persone non identificate corrispondano all'elenco dei dispersi". Gabrielli ha poi specificato che le ricerche si concentrano intorno al ponte 4.

Per quanto riguarda le identificazioni, al Giglio è arrivato un pool speciale della Polizia scientifica, proveniente da Roma, in grado di effettuare qualsiasi tipo di test specifico, Non ultimo quello del Dna su cadaveri irriconoscibili per l'avanzato stato di decomposizione.

 

http://www.repubblica.it/cronaca/2012/01/22/news/costa_concordia_22_gennaio-28562859/

[Milaandra]

I think we have to define the term: "registered".

 

If you mean a key card which is produced by the ship and can be ordered by the Captain or Hotel Director (Purser) that may well be true.

 

If you mean on the Ship's Manifest, as required by law, it may be less likely if on this trip Donmica was not a crew member but rather a "friend" or "comapanion" :D of an officer.

 

Time will tell, but my "prosecutor's mindset" makes me suspect the later. :eek:

 

This isn't about Domnica. This is about some Hungarians who allegedly contacted an Italian official saying that one of their relatives called them on the 13th, and hasn't been seen since the collision.

 

In terms of Domnica, she says she was a passenger with a cabin and a cabin card. Costa says she had a ticket and would give authorities the information about it. Domnica's parents are reported to have purchased her passage for her 25th birthday.

 

I haven't heard any evidence that any of this isn't true.

[gentlemancruiser]

From the National Post.

GIGLIO, Italy – Divers searching the wreck of the Costa Concordia have located the body of a women in the submerged part of the wrecked Italian cruise liner, officials said on Sunday, bringing the total number of known dead in the accident to 13.

 

“Divers have found another body on deck 7, in the bow area at around 10 metres depth,” a spokesman for the Civil Protection authority said.

 

He said the body had been sighted at around 1420 GMT and that recovery operations were underway.

 

More to come…

[Milaandra]

Possibility one of the crew managed to have her smuggled on board

thru their special crew entrance denied to us paying cruisers.

 

Bet that's not that hard to accomplish

especially if the smuggler 'has something' on the security guard at checkpoint

 

or agrees to "share the spoils" later... :)

.

 

Do you have any information about it being done before?

 

I see...know I understand what the problem is. People are talking about "spoils" i.e. goods stolen or taken forcibly.

 

I thought we were talking about human beings.

[UMDCruiseProf]

It's human nature!

 

Yep...

 

In the early days of the Civil War, folks rode out from the DC area to picnic and witness the Battle of Bull Run (Manassas). It was all fun and games until the cannon fire and bullets.

[EVALUATOR]

Have you heard what they've said on the news? The captain blames Costa & carnival because he "had to pass the island so closely"!

 

I really don't see the close sailing as a problem. Why not do it? It should have been such an easy thing to do.

 

Just plan it and execute it safely.

 

Here is a video of the Oasis and Allure together for the first time. Some would say they are sailing unnecessarily close.

 

Just looking at the navigational charts of Giglio, the water is very deep, very close to shore. Plenty of depth to sail fairly close with no problems.

 

Take a look at the Panama canal traffic. Dozens of ships packed into a small area. On the Pacific side, many ships the size of the Concordia pass each other in a river only a couple hundred meters wide.

 

The captain just has to know the ship is made for the water. You can't drive it up to the local Walmart and try to use the handicapped parking so you can run in and get a pair of socks.

[UMDCruiseProf]

Just out of curiosity, how long before the impact to the tug rescue? I'd like to have a more current example of how long it takes from collision to the point of abandon ship.

 

The whole event was only about 60 minutes from impact to safety. My folks went from eating lunch to muster stations and life jackets within 5 minutes of the collision. Announcements were clear and multi-lingual. Crew members started preparing lifeboats, davits, etc. Panic was non-existent... but my folks think it's because it was daylight and they were in the middle of Rotterdam. They also thought the crew was very professional and that helped a lot. Within 15 minutes the tugs were connected but all passengers stayed at muster stations until at least 10 minutes after being tied up to the dock (and in presumably shallow waters).

[Aplmac]

Yep...

In the early days of the Civil War, folks rode out from the DC area to picnic and witness the Battle of Bull Run (Manassas).

It was all fun and games until the cannon fire and bullets.

It's all part of how humans learn to stay alive

by witnessing the mayhem possible in others' lives!

 

"Don't let that happen to you, my son" said Dad as we passed a car-wreck with my little jaw all slack with horror. :eek:

 

 

It's called the real world, for those of us removed from reality by TeeVee! :D

.