Costa Concordia SINKING

[dingoboy]

You might be surprised by my answer.

 

I hope the crew and passengers will wait until the order is given by the bridge.

 

Despite all general opinion that the abandon ship was called too late in this case, I still think that only the bridge can determine when to start evacuating passengers. There may be circumstances involved that neither the crew nor the passengers are aware of.

 

I would want someone to check with the bridge if things seemed to be going on beyond a reasonable time frame...I don't want to be waiting for an order that will never come because all the officers on the bridge were electrocuted in a freak accident, or something!

 

I also maintain my right to put on warm clothes, grab my lifejacket and hang out in the muster station if I think something is wrong, and the right to leave my muster station if I don't feel safe there.

 

In aviation it is the captain who has the authority to call an evacuation.

 

We as cabin crew are not legally allowed to commence an evacuation unless we have tried to first contact the captain. Only if we can't make contact and our lives and those of our passengers are in IMMEDIATE danger can we then legal commence an evacuation.

 

I dare say this is the same for crew on a ship. At every life boat launch post there would most likely be a telephone or secure communication sysytem on back up power for direct communication to the bridge.

 

I would guess when passengers are called to muster stations it is policy for crew to await further instructions - which could well take a long time to come. I would further guess that they are trained that if their life is in immediate danger, as some did determine that night, that they were then legallly safe in beginning the evacuation before the order came from the bridge.

 

NB with so many life boats being launched encountering problems each of those stations would have been trying to contact the bridge to report these problems and so many calls would have very quickly swamped the command centre. Only adding to the sense of confussion. It must have been sheer pandemonium on the bridge, especially with all he alarms going off.

[Uniall]

I think that story is a misquote that ran rampant and took on a life of its own. The legal document and the harbour master's report say that Schettino ordered the abandon ship.

 

I believe that when a Captain is "hitching a ride" they are listed on the ship's manifest as Assistant Captains (not to be confused with Staff Captain who is a paid officer)

 

There's (I can't believe this) now an emerging story that the there was a minor mutiny on the bridge. Captain Coward was refusing to order the abandon ship and Captain Schettino with the support of all deck officers, except one, decided to abandon ship.

 

Only a Hollywood script writer could imagine this plot.

[Uniall]

I have been jumping between this and another forum on CC

Request that Cruise Companies Renounce Passenger Deception in Emergencies

If I could add to this forum with a post from Activated95b

(I have not cleared this with Activated95b but I feel that it would add to some discussion on this widely followed forum)

Below is a copy and paste from Activated95b

 

One of the primary rules for communicating with people during a crisis is to be honest and communicate your plan.

 

Contrary to common belief people do not tend to panic in an emergency. They want (and need) to know the following:

 

1) What happened

2) How serious things are

3) What you are doing about it

4) What your plan is, and

5) What they need to do*.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Activated95b

1) the ship has struck a submerged object

2) we don not know how serious

3) we are seeing how serious

4) we are seeing how serious, to determine what we should do

5) go to your rooms, put your life jacket on.

 

I think that's fair.

That works - as long as you assign somebody to keep everybody informed as to the situation.

In additiotion to your item #5, I would also tell the passengers to dress warmly, then as soon as the crew were in position and the lifeboat stations were ready, had the passengers report to their muster stations. Putting the passenger through a 'hurry up an wait excercise' gives you time to take roll and ensure that everybody is accounted for and where they are supposed to be. You can also use this extra time to sort out the people who will need assistance getting on the lifeboat, verify that life vests are being worn correctly, give other instructions etc.

 

Now everybody is ready and all they need to do is board the lifeboats (and the passengers are already lined up in the order they will board).

 

I doubt that the passengers will criticize you for 'going overboard' for their safety in an emergency.

 

There was no panic because the passengers 1) understood what was going on, 2) understoon what was expected of them and most importantly - they felt that the information they were getting was credible.

 

Don't forget to tell them to bring lots-a-cash to pay for VIP seats on the life boat....:eek:

[Uniall]

I agree with this 90%

 

I have read personal reports where total lack of honest communication with passengers has happened on other ships, as well (although with less dire consequences). It just shouldn't happen.

 

I'm okay with something being a little underplayed to keep people calm. I can see that "we're having some problems with the engines, but because of heath and safety regulations, we ask that you take your lifejackets and go to your muster stations" would be better than "our engines don't work because they are currently underwater"... In a crowded movie theatre, we know that yelling "fire" isn't a great idea.

 

I suspect the reason for the slow or non communication of the true nature of the emergency was caused by Captain Coward being in total denial of reality because his unforgiveable error was the cause of the disaster.

[Uniall]

A response from the other forum from cc member italesi ( this should amuze my old tablemate and now DJ uniall)

 

But just after the impact maybe they should have stated

"please get your lifejackets on, the captain is drunk, banging some woman who is not his wife on the bridge and is on hold with room service. Report to your abandon ship stations and board the lifeboats. Just in case"

 

I promise that I won't quote from other sources without acknowledgement from now on. (Shame most of the media outlets will continue to do so)

 

Your scenario may be a little "rough" but with a little editing and maention of bringing tip money for the life boat crew, it's not that far off the mark. :D

[Milaandra]

Only a Hollywood script writer could imagine this plot.

 

Or someone who calls themself a journalist and other writers of popular fiction. ;)

 

But just to keep the cast of characters straight, Schettino was the captain of the Concordia. The legal document and harbour master's report say that he sounded the abandon ship.

[shipfriend_max]

Well, now we know that the fuel will be pumped out this week.

But what's than? Will they stabalize the ship and bring it to a yard or do they scrap it?

[Uniall]

Or someone who calls themself a journalist and other writers of popular fiction. ;)

 

But just to keep the cast of characters straight, Schettino was the captain of the Concordia. The legal document and harbour master's report say that he sounded the abandon ship.

 

You can't rely on the correctness of the harbor master's report because it's based upon a info from the ship.

 

If the emerging story that Capt. Schettino took control, they might not tell the harbor Master to avoid potential mutiny charges. They may have use the time honored "just between us girls" plan.

[Tonka's Skipper]

Well, now we know that the fuel will be pumped out this week.

But what's than? Will they stabalize the ship and bring it to a yard or do they scrap it?

 

 

Titan expects it to take 2 to 4 weeks to remove all the oil.

 

She wil,l IMO....be scrapped, either floated and taken to the scrap yard or cut up where she lays.

 

AKK

[PizzaJohn 7]

Well, now we know that the fuel will be pumped out this week.

But what's than? Will they stabalize the ship and bring it to a yard or do they scrap it?

 

Well we'll just have to wait, won't we.

[PizzaJohn 7]

You can't rely on the correctness of the harbor master's report because it's based upon a info from the ship.

 

But feel free make accusations, judgements and jokes based on the dubious correctness of media's reporting

[TheBestIsYetToCome]

To be fair on the crew they were given procedures to be put in place based on orders, they were taught what to do when certain orders were given.

When NO ORDERS were given they were left like most of us would have been having very little idea of what to do. I think the crew being the waiters, kitchen staff, cabin stewards who finally gave up waiting for orders and filled the lifeboats and dropped them to the sea saved my family and hundreds of others.

It is those who should have been giving commands that deserve all of the condemnation in my books. I wish I knew the names of the Indian man who drove our lifeboat, and the waiter who sat on his shulders to see, and the waiter who stopped people falling overboard when the waves splashed in as the boat was so overfull, or the other boys in white overalls, they were our saviours.

 

Absolutely. This Captain failed his crew as much as he failed his passengers. The passengers and crew were his responsibility, but the people in that crew were also his colleagues, his friends....

 

I really can't help but think that if the Captain hadn't been paralyzed from the get-go by (insert whatever it was...guilt? shock? fear? incompetence? all of the above?), the crew would have responded to proper orders with a safe and orderly evacuation. As it was, they did the very best they could -- that is obvious, because most of the passengers and crew survived.

 

I'm so glad you've made it safely home. :)

[EVALUATOR]

One of the primary rules for communicating with people during a crisis is to be honest and communicate your plan.

 

 

In December 2010, Mrs E. and I were sailing on the Jewel of the Seas. It was a 10 or 11 night cruise that included a stop in Cartagena, Columbia.

 

About an hour and a half out of port, maybe 5:00 in the morning, there was an incident. We were still in bed. The ship started vibrating severely. Everything was falling off the dressers and shelves in the bathroom. All kinds of stuff was falling on the floor in the cabin. We had been on many cruises, and in many different positions on various ships. Often you would feel the vibrations as the ships changed propulsion apparatus speeds, positions, and directions. This time was different though. For a full 2-3 minutes, the ship shook violently.

 

Knowing it wasn't right, I had Mrs E. get up, get dressed, and start to gather belongings. I went outside to see what was up. There were a couple dozen other persons outside now as well. The ship was at a dead stop in the water. The bridge was in scramble mode. The engineering department was pouring out of all exits to check all sides of the ship. Floodlights were checking the length of the ship at the waterline.

 

We hit something. The ship went from about 15-18 knots to crash stop. Full reversal of engines and STOP. Our cabin was right over the rear pods. It was like the rear of the ship was hopping out of the water. The stack exhaust from the engines rolled down the side of the ship towards the lower decks.

 

It was interesting to watch the crew, hear the crew, and hear how passengers "translated" what the crew said. Talk about lost in translation.

 

So what happened?

 

Apparently Cartagena was installing a new, several miles long submerged sewer line. It was a two foot diameter plastic pipe. During construction, a half mile long section broke off and lay just at the water level. As the Jewel approached port, it snagged the pipe under the bulbous bow. It went about 750 feet down the starboard side, and the rest dragged down the port side and beyond.

 

Now imagine you are the officer on watch. It's still dark, you snag an unidentified pipe with the bow of the ship. You don't know where it came from, what it was, or what damage it did to the ship. It could be water, sewer, oil, gas, who knows. They hit the brakes so hard you could hear the tires screeching. Full crash stop mode. Everything except dropping anchors.

 

We sat in the water for about 20 minutes. As they inspected the ship, more and more crew members came out on the muster station deck. Security was everywhere. They closed off sections and escorted passengers away. We drifted back from the pipe via pod propulsion, wind, and waves. They fully checked out the ship. After drifting away from the pipe at a distance of about a half mile, they turned, made a wide berth and tip toed into Cartagena.

 

At around 6 AM, the Captain came over the intercom, told people what happened, and apologized for the interruption of their sleep to inform them, and assure them. We arrived in Cartagena about an hour late. There was a dive team there waiting before we even arrived. Said we would be an hour late arriving, and staying an extra hour before leaving.

 

Bottom line, plastic pipe adrift at sea. No apparent damage. Full information relayed to passengers. No B.S. in the process.

 

Funny thing is many never even felt the ship shake, and many never even heard the Captain's announcement or knew we hit the pipe.

 

Here is a link to one posting on cruisejunkie.

 

At the time of the incident they were very concerned. They responded immediately, professionally, and honestly.

[Uniall]

But feel free make accusations, judgements and jokes based on the dubious correctness of media's reporting

 

Your absolutely correct. The Harbor Master's report is based upon info supplied by ship's officers. Once you accumulate enough info to learn that there was motive to not tell the Harbor Master the truth, it destroys the reliability of the Harobor Master's report. In law, it's called impeachment of evidence and the best evidence rule.

 

If you overlay everything you read on the subject and the apply your life expereinces and learning of human nature, you can come pretty close to what is the most likely true scenario.

 

That's how professional investigators and prosecutors operate. Humor makes it possible to deal with the worst and best of human beings, day after day. I think the best fictional portrayer of a great investigator was Dennis Franz's Detective Andy Sipowitz on NYPD Blue.

 

John

"Been there, done that"

[Milaandra]

If you overlay everything you read on the subject and the apply your life expereinces and learning of human nature, you can come pretty close to what is the most likely true scenario.

 

Perhaps, but you would have to read carefully.

[shipfriend_max]

Absolutely. This Captain failed his crew as much as he failed his passengers. The passengers and crew were his responsibility, but the people in that crew were also his colleagues, his friends....

 

I really can't help but think that if the Captain hadn't been paralyzed from the get-go by (insert whatever it was...guilt? shock? fear? incompetence? all of the above?), the crew would have responded to proper orders with a safe and orderly evacuation. As it was, they did the very best they could -- that is obvious, because most of the passengers and crew survived.

 

I'm so glad you've made it safely home. :)

 

I think the captain is the person who should have most of the blame! Costa should only have a little part of it - aven the woman should be more blamed than Costa.

Will the ship be scrapped or repaired, does anyone know?

 

[suzski]

Dupe

[PizzaJohn 7]

If you overlay everything you read on the subject and the apply your life expereinces and learning of human nature, you can come pretty close to what is the most likely true scenario."

 

Possibly but not always.

 

The 'facts' that we read about are sometimes inaccurate e.g. there were "unregistered passengers" on-board. Or there were, until it was discovered that three Hungarians were attempting to scam the cruise line.

 

Sometime in the future, all passenger, crew and officer statements along with electronic data will be assembled and presented to a Court and at that point justice will be served.

 

Until then we're at a stage of misinformation, lies and speculation.

 

So going back to 'possibly but not always', I recall an event in recent history where, in a story's early stages this guy in the US stated "There will be no whitewash in the Whitehouse". You can't always rely on statements (or statesmen!)

[SomeBeach]

Those of us who live in the UK appreciate what sort of newspaper the Daily Mail is - a rather sensational one, and not one we go to for factual reports.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wife-italian-cruise-captain-calls-treatment-husband-shameful/story?id=15436457

[HelloHelloHola]

BRM is similar to CRM & was developed from CRM primarily from the SAS Airlines model.

 

BRM has developed into Bridge Team Management (BTM)

 

The following links about Carnival's Simulator facility in the Netherlands may be of interest:

 

http://www.csmartalmere.com

 

http://www.csmartalmere.com/Publications/CSMART_Team_(Shipgaz)_2010-May.pdf[

 

Thanks for the links. On the CSMART website, it is stated that it is owned by Carnival Corp. I wonder if all deck officers under all the Canival Corp. brands received training (especially BRM and BTM) from CSMART.

[jopocop]

Query: How many cruisers are now taking inflatable liferafts in their luggage to have on hand if an emergency happens and the life boats will not suffice for some reason.

 

I am seeing and hearing more and more passengers that are talking about buying their own life raft, kind of what you can buy for a swimming pool, as why just be swimming in the sea?

 

You blow these up and then use them if need be to float on them.

 

Anybody think this is okay to do to bring along now or just forget about it and don't prepare for the worse case scenario?

[Milaandra]

At around 6 AM, the Captain came over the intercom, told people what happened, and apologized for the interruption of their sleep to inform them, and assure them.

 

Did they make announcements between 5 and 6?

 

If not, that would have been one long hour for me! :)

[SomeBeach]

Query: How many cruisers are now taking inflatable liferafts in their luggage to have on hand if an emergency happens and the life boats will not suffice for some reason.

 

I am seeing and hearing more and more passengers that are talking about buying their own life raft, kind of what you can buy for a swimming pool, as why just be swimming in the sea?

 

You blow these up and then use them if need be to float on them.

 

Anybody think this is okay to do to bring along now or just forget about it and don't prepare for the worse case scenario?

 

That would be like taking a parachute on an airplane. :rolleyes:

If I felt the need to take a blow up life raft, that would be the time I would stop cruising.

[Davyjonesrugrat]

That would be like taking a parachute on an airplane. :rolleyes:

 

If I felt the need to take a blow up life raft, that would be the time I would stop cruising.

Phew for a minute I thought I read blow up dolls !!!! lol...

 

rgds

:D

[reallyitsmema]

Query: How many cruisers are now taking inflatable liferafts in their luggage to have on hand if an emergency happens and the life boats will not suffice for some reason.

 

I am seeing and hearing more and more passengers that are talking about buying their own life raft, kind of what you can buy for a swimming pool, as why just be swimming in the sea?

 

You blow these up and then use them if need be to float on them.

 

Anybody think this is okay to do to bring along now or just forget about it and don't prepare for the worse case scenario?

No way I would bring a pool raft on a cruise ship. Look at the night vision film, how would someone carry that down to the waterline? Forget about throwing it into the water and then swimming to it, the waves would just wash it away.

 

The way we can prepare for the worst case scenario is to pack your common sense. If there is an emergency, report to your muster station and wait for instruction. If everyone packs an extra bag of just in case stuff and brings that to muster stations, more people will lose their lives in the chaos of an emergency.