Children, Women and Men Last - Not sure this is the best order of abandoning ship

[MrJulius]

I would do this...

I would do that...

My husband would do this...

Because of my culture I would do that...

 

See a common word above?

 

WOULD

 

If you have never found yourself in an actual life threatening situation where your own decisions may mean that you live or die, you can perceive yourself to be an extraordinary human being.

 

Until your "moment of truth" arrives you are merely speculating from the comfort of your computer chair as to what your actions would be. No way around that one, folks.

[lettienets]

I'm a much stronger swimmer than my son or husband. In fact neither of them is a strong swimmer.

 

Women want equality, but only where it suits them.

What a stupid comment. The tradition of women first off a ship has to do with parenting and populating the human race.

[ducklite]

A few years ago a study was done on airplane evacuation. They had volunteers take a survey, and several of the questions were about risking your life to save another or giving your life to save another. Every single person stated that they would put themselves in harms way for another human.

 

Then they had them fill an airplane and simulate an emergency evacuation. The group proceeded in an orderly fashion and it took several minutes--at least double what regulations require.

 

Then they offered a fairly substantial amount of money to the first "X" of people off the plane. Suddenly people were pushing and shoving and climbing over seats to get out.

 

They compared the psycological affect of cash rewards to savings one life and determined that 99% of the human race would have clawed their way to safety even if it meant leaving others behind.

 

There have been other similar studies.

 

It's easy to say what you would have done, but the reality proves that the majority would react differently in a crisis than what they think they would sitting in front of a computer.

[cdamion]

Not sure if this has been pointed out yet, but keep in mind that the Concordia sinking was a very unusual situation in that they were very close to land. Jumping off the ship and swimming was a viable option that it sounds like many people took. If this accident had taken place in deep water, then swimming would not have been an option. In fact the ship would likely have sunk completely very quickly. In this situation, there probably would not have been any time for helicopter rescue.

 

So now we are down to get on a lifeboat or die.

I don't know how anyone could place more value on one human life then another one at this point. I would hope that instead of trying to organize people into 'categories' of who boards when, they would just load people as quickly and efficiently as possible, making sure that every lifeboat went into the water full. Time would have been of utmost importance, so prioritizing loading and splitting up families would in my opinion be ludicrous.

 

I don't necessarily agree that things would have been different in deep water, I think the list would have not been as severe since it wasn't grounded - plus if it did sink all of the life rafts would have deployed.

 

I fully agree with just quickly get everybody off without wasting time to categorize everybody.

[ducklite]

What a stupid comment. The tradition of women first off a ship has to do with parenting and populating the human race.

 

I don't think we need to worry about the human race dying out. Are you saying that fathers can't parent just as well?

[Hunwolf]

What a stupid comment. The tradition of women first off a ship has to do with parenting and populating the human race.

 

Not sure if you're being serious...

[Milaandra]

So now we are down to get on a lifeboat or die.

 

Not necessarily. There are inflatable life rafts that healthy swimmers can access. Passengers and crew may have to go to other other lifeboat stations and there may be conditions that require good mobility and even good upper body strength. (i.e. the sloping hallways and toppled furniture of the Concordia)

 

Now most of this is academic if people act as they should. Everyone should go to their assigned station which would ensure plenty of room for everyone and no need to push and shove or make tough decisions. If people assist each other the way we should, no children should be separated from their parents, no fights, no contusions from being shoved into doorways and walls, no damage to the equipment. If mechanical failure or damage reduces the number of lifeboats, then yes, those who are better able to access the alternatives should stay behind and permit the vulnerable to take the available lifeboat seats. Those healthy swimmers are more likely to survive if forced to take alternative avenues such as a short swim to an inflatable life raft or volunteer boat..even accessing areas from which to be airlifted.

 

Based on the reports on board the Concordia, people were not acting as they should. I think the cruise lines are going to have to ensure that at least one forceful personality is at each lifeboat station to control "mob mentality."

[ducklite]

Based on the reports on board the Concordia, people were not acting as they should. I think the cruise lines are going to have to ensure that at least one forceful personality is at each lifeboat station to control "mob mentality."

 

One person against a mob mentality? I don't care if they are the Terminator, they might as well use the 5" tall dishwasher.

[peabody99]

I think people trying to rearrange themselves in order of rescue worthiness will create chaos in itself and slow evacuation.

 

I am female, with no children, and would give my space up to a dad in heartbeat. I also happen to be a very strong swimmer-more so than many men (I rescued a man from drown once even!)I can't say for sure but wonder about some of the stories of crew pushing themselves through crowds could be related to needing to get to muster stations for assigned duties. I am fully aware though that in other cases it was just boorish behavior too.

[MrJulius]

Based on the reports on board the Concordia, people were not acting as they should.

 

Didn't an employee of Walmart get crushed to death a couple of years ago when "the mob" felt as if they may not get that Black Friday special when the doors opened?

 

Now take a group of people and instead of missing out on a new X-Box, THEY THINK THEY ARE GOING TO DIE !!!

 

Yeah, people don't act as they should. You just have to be ready for it.

 

On my last cruise when the muster drill was letting out of the theater there was this elderly gentleman in a wheel chair trying to get from one side of the hallway to the other and people were stepping over the tops of his legs so that they could run up and not miss their sailaway cocktail. I literally stuck both of my arms out making physical contact with people just so that this guy could move. You should have seen the looks that I got for that one.

 

And that was just for sailaway...

[TriciaEMTB]

Dear All

 

Firstly my thoughts and prayers to all of the passengers and crew of the Concordia. A tragic situation for all involved.

 

I am not sure that i agree with the order or evacuating the ship, children, women and men last.

 

I am a fifty five female and frequently cruise with my two sons who are 23 and 25. I would gladly give up my place in a lifeboat for one of those in order to give them a chance of survival and i am sure my mum of 84 would feel the same.

 

Perhaps it should be families first, ie those with children under eighteen.

 

I would appreciate your comments.

 

So my life is worth less because I have no children?

 

I say from the comfort of my ambulance right now that I would give up my seat for a child or to keep a family together, but right now I'm nice and warm. I'm safe. I'm not in fear of my life.

 

However it should be my choice to do so, not forced because I don't have kids. My life is still valuable and I still have a family at home.

[SylviaB]

Interesting article on the BBC news website about this

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16576289

[matondo]

Women and children first make the most sense. That would automaticly sort out the families. The children are the most important and someone needs to go with them so this method is the most expedient. Any other way would be too complicated and time consuming.

[Zeno]

If you have never found yourself in an actual life threatening situation where your own decisions may mean that you live or die, you can perceive yourself to be an extraordinary human being.

 

Until your "moment of truth" arrives you are merely speculating from the comfort of your computer chair as to what your actions would be. No way around that one, folks.

 

Interestingingly enough - twice in my life I found myself in situations that while not positively life-threatening (not likely I would actually DIE but I would certainly suffer significant injury if things escalated - which in both cases was a serious possibility). In one case I did not even think. My body just seemed to do the automatic thing (interposing my body between a child (unrelated) and danger and snatching up the child and running) - so I take no credit - it really was an automatic response. On the other occasion, I had to put myself in a dangerous position to help someone out who was trapped in a car after an accident. There was some thought involved. I had to decide whether to keep myself safe or actually do what needed to be done and get this person out even though it put me in a very dangerous position. I made the right choice and helped him get out.

 

I most certainly don't perceive myself to be "extraordinary" - I think I am a normal human being with a normal moral compass that so far has worked pretty well. I have NO idea how I would have behaved on this ship but I do believe the correct attitude is NOT "every man for himself" or "trample and shove aside the weak to get to the front of the line" (which according to reports apparently did happen on the Concordia).

[Kurt Repchull]

I found a link to some very incredible pictures and video of the sinking:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2087126/Costa-Concordia-captain-Francesco-Schettino-seen-drinking-bar-abandoning-ship.html

[IRL_Joanie]

.....

 

Keep watching through all the 6 videos. Thankfully there was an entertainment staff who felt they, as the more able bodied of those who were left, decided to help the less abled. All lived.

 

Thank you for this link!! I remember the Oceanos sinking. I remember hearing and reading of these brave men and women. I remember...

 

But, this series of videos are impressive in one of the final statements made in video 6....."The Courage to be Selfless."

 

I think what worries me the most about so many of the replies in this thread is this:

 

Have our morals in society so drastically changed in the past 20 years that we are willing to literally throw anyone in our path to safety to their deaths in an attempt to save our own skins?? I would hope not. I would hope that those implying they would are in the vast minority.

 

I can only pray that those of us who do cruise, whether it be our first cruise or our 1500th cruise, have the courage to think of others and to show our moral strength and have THE COURAGE TO BE SELFLESS!!

 

Joanie

[electricron]

Women and children first make the most sense. That would automaticly sort out the families. The children are the most important and someone needs to go with them so this method is the most expedient. Any other way would be too complicated and time consuming.

 

I disagree, any discriminating way takes more time, whatever the parameters.

 

Splitting families up is wrong. Not every child is cruising with both parents. Would you allow the daddy to evacuate with his children if their mommy wasn't aboard?

[negrilbride]

I'm just shocked by how many of you (or your family members) don't know how to swim!!

 

The ships have all those pool, every port is an island or on the coast, excursions to beaches and days spent out on the open water. For goodness sakes, please take swimming lessons and help your chances!

 

I can't fly on my own, but I get on an airplane... do you?

 

I am a strong swimmer and have in those "built in flotation devices" another poster was talking about. I think I would have a better chance in the ocean than my husband, and I would willingly give him my place on a life boat, but I am certain he would not take it. He is selfless, and would rather die knowing I am safe, than to live, wondering if I would make it. I am richly blessed by his love!

[ducklite]

Women and children first make the most sense. That would automaticly sort out the families. The children are the most important and someone needs to go with them so this method is the most expedient. Any other way would be too complicated and time consuming.

 

Again you are wasting precious time deciding whose life is worth more than the next. Just get people on and get the boat launched and move on to the next.

 

Maybe we should only allow skinny people on first as you could put more of them into a raft than you could overweight people. They have to fit into a "sizer" or wait, even if it means splitting up families. Just kidding of course, but it makes the point. Basing the boarding order on certain parameters is absurd and will only hold up the entire rescue process.

[ODA 564]

Not that long ago it was believed that class and race should also factor in under situations such as this. I think we would all agree that is an antiquated notion. So, why should a father potentially leave his children fatherless so that an old woman should live? You would willingly look those children in the eye and tell them that their daddy has to die so that someone else could live?

 

My point is that no HUMAN BEING deserves priority over any other HUMAN BEING. Everyone should be treated equally, always.

 

This is PC run amuck. Nature doesn't care.

 

Society arose from men trying to tame their baser nature. In every disaster where people panic, the death toll rises.

 

What keeps panic at bay? The stupid rules of civilization that the nuanced and sophisticated mock and jape.

 

I would sacrifice my life to keep my wife safe. Her life is more important to me than mine. I would expect my sons to ensure their mother's safety before theirs (and they know it).

 

Otherwise you have disater like the MV Oceanus - where the crew got off first (hey, first come first served, right?) and abandoned the passengers - after all, why are the lives of the passengers more important? The crew have family too. Or the Andrea Doria. Why save passengers when you can get off first? /sarcasm.

 

Gender equality is wonderful in a nice well-lit room in a first world country with all the wonders and safety of civilization.

 

Nature, red of fang and claw, doesn't really care. We have to carry civilization with us or become the beasts again.

 

So, its women and children and the aged and the infirm first - then the able-bodied men, then the vessel's crew, and last the officers. The captain should be the last man (or woman) taken off.

[cmaygar]

There is no way that the crew can sort through all passengers waiting for a lifeboat to determine who is better swimmer, male, elderly, female...When you line up at your muster station, the crew should take passengers on board in an orderly fashion based on who is actually in the line, versus who may not be there (how many may not make it to a muster station and why should someone who is there wait to be rescued and lose precious minutes to survive if others are not present and delaying the release of a boat for for any reason?)

 

There are plenty of seats in the lifeboats for everyone so leaving folks out shouldn't be an issue as long as you get to the muster station in a timely fashion.

 

Everyone has a right to survival, regardless of their age, gender or any other special circumstance.

[luvwater]

Why can’t people just follow directions? There is no law that states women/children first. I think it is wonderful that there are so many gentlemen left but like I said earlier I feel bad for the husbands that their wives would leave them behind.

I do hope in case of an emergency that those that believe women/children first … go to the lifeboats, wait their turn man or women and not hold up the line. You go... No you go etc.

 

This is why disembarkation is such a mess they give people instructions not to block /wait at the exits and there are hundreds of people pushing and shoving at the exits. It’s so simple wait until you color or deck is called.

 

I highly doubt that the human race would diminish if men are on the first lifeboats.

[PCalabrese]

I would imagine that in this day and age when there are seats enough for everybody, including crew, that it does not matter who boards the lifeboats first. So long as everything is ORGANIZED, everyone should be able to get off the boat in due time. When US Air landed in the Hudson, I believe that about 150 people were out of the plane in around 60 seconds. That's fairly impressive in my opinion and it was the middle of winter with 20 degree air temperature.

 

As other posters have said, the moment a ship strikes something unknown beneath the water line, immediately initiate "to the lifeboats" procedures. If it proves to not be serious, so be it. If it is serious, there will be ample time to get everyone off the ship and the boats lowered before a capsize or full sinking occurs.

[Miss Fig]

Honestly, I think this notion of women & children first is outdated nowadays because we do have multiple redundancies in terms of lifeboats and liferafts - there are more than enough spots for everyone.

 

Of course, I'd want everyone to wait patiently, families together, and board the boats in an orderly, calm way. I fear that people trying to enforce women & children first would cause more chaos & panic and incite violence in the crowd.

 

In all my musters, I have NEVER heard a crewmember say women & children board the lifeboat first.

[bobnsons]

I wonder if you have to show your Sail & Sign card be4 boarding a life boat?

 

:D