Concordia News: Please Post Here

[clive and anne]

If I read it right the 1st prize was 1500 euros 2nd prize 1000 euros and a special prize of 500 euros. Well that should attract the creme de la creme of architects.

But it does show how widespread the italian thoughts are.

There seems to be a growing body of opinion that the present plan wont work. This will make the next few months very interesting. The first thing I would like to see is the recovery of the two victims still on board.

[sidari]

Tonka ... Did you notice on the photo of the Pacifica the Blue paint just below and at the start of the tear ?

Edited December 20, 2012 by sidari

[SomeBeach]

I think it was more a "what if" it was decided not to recover the wreck, what ideas people could come up with. Strange indeed.

 

Strange but interesting.

 

If I read it right the 1st prize was 1500 euros 2nd prize 1000 euros and a special prize of 500 euros. Well that should attract the creme de la creme of architects.

But it does show how widespread the italian thoughts are.

There seems to be a growing body of opinion that the present plan wont work. This will make the next few months very interesting. The first thing I would like to see is the recovery of the two victims still on board.

 

Since something of this size has never been attempted before, it will be interesting to see how it plays out.

Like you, I have never forgotten that 2 people are still missing. After this long, I am not sure what could be found but if there is anything, I think they will be found when the ship is moved in an upright position.

[Cruising Ken]

I know this isn't a poll, but I think the salvage operation will succeed:) so much money, time, technology and planning has gone into it, I think the only thing that could jeopardize the operation would be should the structural integrity of the concordia fail.

[SomeBeach]

I know this isn't a poll, but I think the salvage operation will succeed:) so much money, time, technology and planning has gone into it, I think the only thing that could jeopardize the operation would be should the structural integrity of the concordia fail.

 

 

I had given some tho admittedly very little thought until the 60 Minute segment. One fella spoke of that issue as being the unknown part of this operation. Once upright, how will the structure hold.

Every piece of equipment will have to be timed for its purpose once they are ready to shift Concordia. One malfunction could set off a chain reaction that throws the whole operation out of whack.

Be interesting to know what the odds makers in Vegas will say. ;)

[clive and anne]

Perhaps the "caissons" along the port side will strenghten that side and I suppose the wires/belts used to pull her up will hopefully keep the starboard side intact until the caissons can be attached to the starboard.

There was some talk a while ago about putting some kind of expanding foam inside which would take away the enormous weight of water away from the inside of the ship.

I'm sure with the amount of money washing around this project we can be pretty confident that the top salvagers will be on the case and if it is possible to right Concordia intact this will give them the best option.

[mbeginner]

Italy prosecutors wind up Costa Concordia ship investigation

 

 

http://news.yahoo.com/italy-prosecutors-wind-costa-concordia-ship-investigation-170006087--finance.html

Edited December 20, 2012 by mbeginner

[Cruising Ken]

My thoughts on the "caissons" are just the opposite. I thought they were going to fill them with water as a counter ballast to help pull the ship upright, as and when the time is right they would be pumped out to float the ship?

 

I may be wrong (nothing new there then) but if right, the weight of these on the hull portside is what might cause the problems as the hull wasn't designed to bear that kind of load on the side, hence all the strengthening beams that have been attached to her portside:confused:

[CostaSmurfette]

OK.....since there are some on this thread who are so blinkered (Max)...let me explain in simple terms what occurred aboard Pacifica last Tuesday (Dec 11).

 

We arrived off Marseille as scheduled after an overnight sail in very rough conditions from Savona. Winds off Marseille were being recorded as gusting 70-100 kilometers per hour...something that is very common for Marseille.

 

Less than a fortnight prior to our arrival, a large cruise ferry Napoleon Bonaparte was crushed against the quay and severely holed, causing her to sink by the stern in Marseille. She was in drydock there when we sailed into the port.

 

The port marker buoy WAS flung into our side during final turns to allow us to berth in Marseille. The marker buoy's anchor chains had snapped thanks to a very strong gust of wind and that same gust blew the buoy into our midships causing substantial damage inside and outside of the hull...the photo's do NOT do the damage justice whatsoever, it was far more significant, needing over 30 hours of repairs in Marseille & later in Palermo.

 

Due to the cruise being a bus stop itinerary, ie debark/embark in all 5 ports, we had no choice but to enter all 5 ports, regardless of the weather conditions.

 

November/December 2012 has been the roughest couple months in the Mediterranean for almost a century, with many ships being damaged.

 

The fact that several hundred Concordia survivors were aboard was purely coincidence, there is no planned cruise for survivors to "sign up" for.

 

Those who were aboard Pacifica last week were German, French & Italian passengers along with approximately 75 crew from Concordia. They took it upon themselves to sail the route again and were some of the most genuine people that I have ever had the honour of meeting and speaking to.

 

They all said that on the night that Concordia foundered, they felt nothing...some were in cabins, some were in the Casino or bars and others on the way to/from the theater when she impacted the rocks. They all stated that Concordia had been blacking out alot prior to that night's events...you need to understand that most of these people had sailed aboard her many times and held her as their favourite ship. They knew something was not right on that cruise since she "was not herself"...their words, not mine.

 

When the evacuation order was given, there was no panic...many thought they would be stood down after a few minutes, others thought they might go to the boats but then be given the all clear.

 

A small number of other passengers did panic...as is often the case when you have large numbers of people in a confined area....and that feeling of panic did spread but on the whole, according to the survivors I spoke to at length, the feeling was mostly under control...worried, scared but controlled.

 

One young couple aboard Concordia I knew from an earlier cruise when they were honeymooners. I did not realise that they were on Concordia until they sought me out aboard Pacifica (they saw me with a group of crew and passengers and recognised me). Anyway, they had been aboard Concordia that night, the wife was several months pregnant at the time. When they caught up with me on Pacifica they introduced me to their now 8 month old daughter who they have named after the ship...Maria Concordia. The Pacifica was the daughter's first cruise and they have several others booked with Costa Crociere.

 

As with the buoy hitting Pacifica, they told me that they did not feel Concordia hit the rocks...and that was something that many of the survivors spoke of...not feeling or hearing anything, hence why they did not immediately feel that the ship was in trouble. Most only realised it was in trouble after the evacuation order was given...as I have already said, Concordia was experiencing electrical problems, so the loss of lighting did not immediately alarm anyone.

 

Having spoken to these people...including the widow of Sandor Feher, who died aboard Concordia and who was the Hungarian violinist who saved lives that night...it became very clear that initially at least, no-one was truly aware of what had happened nor were they aware of the seriousness of what had happened.

 

Which is why there is a chance, albeit slight, that those on the bridge did not immediately understand how serious the situation was and that may have been why a delay in issuing the evacuation order occurred. NOT saying that it was definitely the case, but certainly a possible reason for the delay.

 

Pacifica is an identical ship to Concordia...the harbour marker buoy that was trown into our side was massive, yet no-one anywhere on board knew that we had been hit....my cabin was on the same side as the damage and yet I neither heard a bang or felt a shudder...like you would a smaller vessel.

 

Last week's cruise was immensely emotional...not just for those retracing their steps almost exactly 11 months to the day from Concordia...but having her sister damaged so brutally and without any sound or movement associated with it, brought home exactly how vulnerable these ships are. The winds were severe for the entire week, we had to try and catch up with the itinerary against heavy seas and headwinds....the usual 16-18 knots max speed was set aside, we sailed at the full 23 knots available every day and we still ran 4-6 hours late, even with the scheduled sea day. Mother Nature had it in for us right from the start.

 

It may also be of interest that the senior Capt (Russo) who had been with the ship for the previous 6 months, stood aside for my cruise and went on scheduled leave, his replacement (di Gregorio) was replaced in Civitavecchia on my cruise with another captain (Alba).

 

The itinerary was thrown right out the window, it was an extremely hard cruise for the crew, they worked 20+ hours a day throughout due to our port timings being knocked for six as a result of the Marseille incident.

 

Heck...the ship was meant to have been dressed for Christmas during the week I was aboard but even that went out the window since the crew did not have the time to do it all.

 

Passengers waiting for us in Barcelona who were boarding were given 75 euro each for food/drink and given complimentary excursions.

 

We on board were given 150 euro OBC for the "inconvenience" of leaving Marseille over 12 hours late, thus arriving in Barcelona 14 hours late. We also had complimentary shuttles into Barcelona city center from 1900 when we finally arrived thru 0400...we sailed from Barcelona at 0500 on the 13th instead of 1800 on the 12th.

 

Out of the full capacity on board a group of Sicilian passengers, around 250 of them, caused a ruckus but then Italian's are VERY supersticious - especially Sicilians - and they were very upset over the buoy collision. The rest of us took things in our stride and did not cause a fuss...especially those who were aboard Concordia since they knew that it could have been alot worse.

[CostaSmurfette]

Italy prosecutors wind up Costa Concordia ship investigation

 

 

http://news.yahoo.com/italy-prosecutors-wind-costa-concordia-ship-investigation-170006087--finance.html

 

So now the REAL investigation starts.

 

The Italian way is to have a criminal investigation first and then hand it over to the qualified investigation team.

 

The big problem with this system is that the criminal team often have little or no actual experience in what they are "investigating"...this was a frequent problem in aviation accidents where the police took charge of the scene and then promptly shifted wreckage etc without photographing it in-situ first. This leaves the real investigators with a pile of wreckage that has been shifted from it's original position and is thus contaminated.

 

Maritime accidents are treated in the exact same way as aviation accidents in Italy...so doubtless there will be evidence lost, moved or contaminated with Concordia...thus making any investigation of causal factors much harder to accomplish.

 

Sadly the Italian way is not helpful to either the investigators nor the families of victims...it also makes things take alot longer than they need to be aswell.

 

They do not work together on a parallel investigation...the police do their thing and they prevent the maritime investigation team from entering the scene until the police have finished.

 

Ultimate frustration for those within the maritime agencies but nothing can be done to change how it is done.

[SomeBeach]

I was just at the Meyer Werft Shipbuilding complex in Papenburg Germany a few weeks ago. Most interesting.

I have to wonder if what they may be concerned with is the interior of the ship's structure. There is a lot of metal involved with all the decks. Aside from the metal, the furnishings are still inside, adding additional weight. Could this be the weak link. Could the collapse of those decks throw a shift in the weight whilst they are attempting to right the ship and be the unknown issue in this.

BTW, they were finishing up on NCL's Breakaway and work was started on another ship to be built. If you ever find yourself in Germany, worth a visit.

[Uniall]

OK.....since there are some on this thread who are so blinkered (Max)...let me explain in simple terms what occurred aboard Pacifica last Tuesday (Dec 11).

 

We arrived off Marseille as scheduled after an overnight sail in very rough conditions from Savona. Winds off Marseille were being recorded as gusting 70-100 kilometers per hour...something that is very common for Marseille.

 

Less than a fortnight prior to our arrival, a large cruise ferry Napoleon Bonaparte was crushed against the quay and severely holed, causing her to sink by the stern in Marseille. She was in drydock there when we sailed into the port.

 

The port marker buoy WAS flung into our side during final turns to allow us to berth in Marseille. The marker buoy's anchor chains had snapped thanks to a very strong gust of wind and that same gust blew the buoy into our midships causing substantial damage inside and outside of the hull...the photo's do NOT do the damage justice whatsoever, it was far more significant, needing over 30 hours of repairs in Marseille & later in Palermo.

 

Due to the cruise being a bus stop itinerary, ie debark/embark in all 5 ports, we had no choice but to enter all 5 ports, regardless of the weather conditions.

 

November/December 2012 has been the roughest couple months in the Mediterranean for almost a century, with many ships being damaged.

 

The fact that several hundred Concordia survivors were aboard was purely coincidence, there is no planned cruise for survivors to "sign up" for.

 

Those who were aboard Pacifica last week were German, French & Italian passengers along with approximately 75 crew from Concordia. They took it upon themselves to sail the route again and were some of the most genuine people that I have ever had the honour of meeting and speaking to.

 

They all said that on the night that Concordia foundered, they felt nothing...some were in cabins, some were in the Casino or bars and others on the way to/from the theater when she impacted the rocks. They all stated that Concordia had been blacking out alot prior to that night's events...you need to understand that most of these people had sailed aboard her many times and held her as their favourite ship. They knew something was not right on that cruise since she "was not herself"...their words, not mine.

 

When the evacuation order was given, there was no panic...many thought they would be stood down after a few minutes, others thought they might go to the boats but then be given the all clear.

 

A small number of other passengers did panic...as is often the case when you have large numbers of people in a confined area....and that feeling of panic did spread but on the whole, according to the survivors I spoke to at length, the feeling was mostly under control...worried, scared but controlled.

 

One young couple aboard Concordia I knew from an earlier cruise when they were honeymooners. I did not realise that they were on Concordia until they sought me out aboard Pacifica (they saw me with a group of crew and passengers and recognised me). Anyway, they had been aboard Concordia that night, the wife was several months pregnant at the time. When they caught up with me on Pacifica they introduced me to their now 8 month old daughter who they have named after the ship...Maria Concordia. The Pacifica was the daughter's first cruise and they have several others booked with Costa Crociere.

 

As with the buoy hitting Pacifica, they told me that they did not feel Concordia hit the rocks...and that was something that many of the survivors spoke of...not feeling or hearing anything, hence why they did not immediately feel that the ship was in trouble. Most only realised it was in trouble after the evacuation order was given...as I have already said, Concordia was experiencing electrical problems, so the loss of lighting did not immediately alarm anyone.

 

Having spoken to these people...including the widow of Sandor Feher, who died aboard Concordia and who was the Hungarian violinist who saved lives that night...it became very clear that initially at least, no-one was truly aware of what had happened nor were they aware of the seriousness of what had happened.

 

Which is why there is a chance, albeit slight, that those on the bridge did not immediately understand how serious the situation was and that may have been why a delay in issuing the evacuation order occurred. NOT saying that it was definitely the case, but certainly a possible reason for the delay.

 

Pacifica is an identical ship to Concordia...the harbour marker buoy that was trown into our side was massive, yet no-one anywhere on board knew that we had been hit....my cabin was on the same side as the damage and yet I neither heard a bang or felt a shudder...like you would a smaller vessel.

 

Last week's cruise was immensely emotional...not just for those retracing their steps almost exactly 11 months to the day from Concordia...but having her sister damaged so brutally and without any sound or movement associated with it, brought home exactly how vulnerable these ships are. The winds were severe for the entire week, we had to try and catch up with the itinerary against heavy seas and headwinds....the usual 16-18 knots max speed was set aside, we sailed at the full 23 knots available every day and we still ran 4-6 hours late, even with the scheduled sea day. Mother Nature had it in for us right from the start.

 

It may also be of interest that the senior Capt (Russo) who had been with the ship for the previous 6 months, stood aside for my cruise and went on scheduled leave, his replacement (di Gregorio) was replaced in Civitavecchia on my cruise with another captain (Alba).

 

The itinerary was thrown right out the window, it was an extremely hard cruise for the crew, they worked 20+ hours a day throughout due to our port timings being knocked for six as a result of the Marseille incident.

 

Heck...the ship was meant to have been dressed for Christmas during the week I was aboard but even that went out the window since the crew did not have the time to do it all.

 

Passengers waiting for us in Barcelona who were boarding were given 75 euro each for food/drink and given complimentary excursions.

 

We on board were given 150 euro OBC for the "inconvenience" of leaving Marseille over 12 hours late, thus arriving in Barcelona 14 hours late. We also had complimentary shuttles into Barcelona city center from 1900 when we finally arrived thru 0400...we sailed from Barcelona at 0500 on the 13th instead of 1800 on the 12th.

 

Out of the full capacity on board a group of Sicilian passengers, around 250 of them, caused a ruckus but then Italian's are VERY supersticious - especially Sicilians - and they were very upset over the buoy collision. The rest of us took things in our stride and did not cause a fuss...especially those who were aboard Concordia since they knew that it could have been alot worse.

 

After reading this "first hand" ( ? report - propaganda piece ?) I reach two conclusions:

 

1. Scililians understand a bad situation at the hands of fellow Italians better than anyone else.

 

2. My original Concordia opinion was correct: Never book a Costa cruise.

Edited December 20, 2012 by Uniall

[Ken711]

My thoughts on the "caissons" are just the opposite. I thought they were going to fill them with water as a counter ballast to help pull the ship upright, as and when the time is right they would be pumped out to float the ship?

 

I may be wrong (nothing new there then) but if right, the weight of these on the hull portside is what might cause the problems as the hull wasn't designed to bear that kind of load on the side, hence all the strengthening beams that have been attached to her portside:confused:

 

You're correct, the sponsons on the port side are to be partially filled with water which will act as a counterweight in righting the ship onto the platform. Then after the starboard side sponsons are attached they will all be pumped with air expelling the water and adding the buoyancy to float the ship off of the underwater platform.

[Max49]

Well Max here we disagree big time.

 

 

Before you go on about ship handling............think a bit and know this is not just about cruise ships or just one line' date=' it includes tankers, container ships and naval ship. Hell I bounced off a dock once,.(but there was no real damage)............These large vessels today are basicly a city block long and 10 to 16 stories high, a massive amount of sail area. All it takes is a surprized wind direction change or gust to cause a problem. Add to that tidal current or river current to the mix, all these can change in a secound and cause a problem like the incidents noted recently. (not refering to the Concordia)

 

Of course the bouy didn't hit the ship....that the lawyers and PR...but to say its the Masters fault, without looking at all the facts is grossly unfair.

 

AKK

 

PS........Just for the record, there is no such thing as a *boat driver*[/quote']

 

Oh come on Tonka, lighten up, Do I have to be formal? I drive my boat, and drove all the previous ones. I know they have fancier titles "Master?" but they are paid to drive the boat or ship.

Besides, I did'nt say it was all the drivers or masters fault but there must be big profit to be able to keep wrecking these ships and continue to pay for insurance for them.

I know I don't know as much as alot of you guys do about Cruise Ships, but I do know that wind and storms play havoc on a boat, of course. However if I'm driving my 21' boat or a rented 60' house boat, I am responsible if I decide to go into port in a storm and I lose control and hit something. I've made many circles on the gulf and at Lake Powell because it was safer to wait for a break in the weather before attempting a risky maneuver.

Would'nt it be cheaper to hire some tug boats to help and escort the ship in and out of port rather than risk damaging these expensive ships, not to mention, lives could have been lost?

I don't understand, maybe it would be exciting to go in and out of ports in gale storms and playing bumper boats but I don't think the airline industry takes those chances.

[Max49]

"the Costa Pacifica cruise ship violently struck a piling in the Port of Marseille this morning. The cruise ship sustained a gash of around 8 meters long, which luckily is above the waterline. "

 

CS

I'll have to look up what blinkered means, I'll assume it's a compliment.

 

You keep saying the buoy hit the ship, is that a joke? Did the rocks hit the Concordia too.

 

And I still don't understand why it makes a bit of difference whether the passengers knew the ship hit some thing or not. If you run over some one in your car and you don't feel a thing, does that mean it's not your fault?

 

I'm glad you had a safe cruise, in spite of the fact that it was an eventful one.

[Max49]

No wonder you can't trust the news to get it right

 

"Repairs to a several-meters-long scratch above the vessel's water line were completed and the Pacifica was to arrive at its next port of call Barcelona on Wednesday, the ship's owner Costa Crociere said in a statement."

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/13/costa-pacifica-cruise-ship-fixed-after-accident-in-france_n_2291780.html

 

I did'nt know it was just a scratch

[sidari]

Max ... Did you watch the videos below the picture of the Pacifica? Click on the part headed Collisions

 

http://www.cruiselawnews.com/articles/collisions/

 

Notice they still refer to the ship as a Liner!! and the story says it hit a Dolphin Mooring structure! so there are 3 different things that it hit now.... Mooring Piling, a Dolphin and a Port Marker Buoy ?

Edited December 20, 2012 by sidari

[Max49]

Max ... Did you watch the videos below the picture of the Pacifica? Click on the part headed Collisions

 

I know accidents happen, but it certainly appears that they have'nt learned how to handle or control these monsters. But they must be good at PR damage control. If an airliner gets within a half mile of any thing else, it's all over the news as a 'near miss'.

 

http://www.cruiselawnews.com/articles/collisions/

 

Notice they still refer to the ship as a Liner!! and the story says it hit a Dolphin Mooring structure! so there are 3 different things that it hit now.... Mooring Piling, a Dolphin and a Port Marker Buoy ?

 

And we've heard the damage was any where from scratches to 125'X16' dent and 2 gashes , one 95'x6' and the other 60'x5'

 

This was one tough Dolphin or Marker Buoy or Mooring Piling.

 

I thought the American press didn't get the details right but I have to believe they would have more interest here with a ship with a few thousand passengers on it, with gashes in it that could have been catastrophic. Maybe over there, it ain't no big deal, happens every day.

[CostaSmurfette]

It is blatantly obvious that Uniall, Max and a few others on this thread have NEVER stepped aboard one of this type of ships, so let me enlighten you about them and how BADLY they are designed internally. It might actually make you realise just what a bloody miracle it was that over 4000 got off Concordia.

 

1. Out of 14 pax decks, just ONE is accessible through public areas from stem to stern...this being Deck 5. All other decks have to be accessed either by up or down one or two decks and across...ie an indirect and from what I saw, many pax were confused and had to by guided by crew 2-3 days after boarding due to getting lost.

 

2. The theater is on decks 3, 4 & 5 forward, two restaurants midships & aft over decks 3 & 4. To get from the restaurants to the theater (or vice versa) its either one or two decks up and through a bottleneck on deck 5. I say bottleneck....let me explain....on either side of the atrium there are footways of 10-15ft wide, the footway on either side of the atrium on deck 5 is less than 5ft wide...so you have 2000 coming from the theater meeting 1500 coming from the restaurants and you get total bedlam on deck 5 atrium.

 

3. Muster stations are on deck 4, outside. Access points are around 10-15ft intervals down each side of the ship. This is where you muster/board the lifeboats. These areas and the doors leading to the muster stations are VERY POORLY signposted and marked, signage is approx 4" square - the standard green background muster signage BUT on dark brown doors, unlit signage so potentially hard to see if you have a visual disability.

 

4. Outer boat deck/prom deck...this is on deck 3 and there are ONLY 2 doors on each side of the ship that lead to this area, these doors are on the atrium sides only...essentially you have a full length wooden floored prom deck under the lifeboats that can only be accessed via a total of 4 doors....totally ridiculous situation, another bottleneck.

 

5. General signage around the ship is frankly abysmal...the decor is dark and signage is also dark and very small, so if you have any form of visual disability, you would be in trouble...no emergency signage is illuminated, only the floor markers as per SOLAS.

 

The ship is huge at 114,500 tonnes, yet the use of interior space is abominable. The crew feel the same way, they hate the ship's layout...you have countless corridors that lead nowhere, countless corridors that are like rabbit warrens with no signage to help you. The stair towers are marked with signage that is colour coded but those signs are NOT illuminated, so on emergency lighting, you cannot tell where you are (NCL have a great scheme on their Jewel class, bright coloured carpeting in each stair tower plus the fish swimming forwards in the corridors...simple and effective and excellent way of helping pax find their way around).

 

The atrium on these ships is one of the worst I have come across in 25 cruises...dark, crampt, poorly designed and those glass elevators...NOT at all as impressive as they look in the PR photography. And NO escape from deck 5 in an emergency without going downstairs to decks 3 or 4 and even then its hard to find your way to the correct muster or emergency exit due to lack of decent signage.

 

Now before you start jumping about it being a Costa thing.....it is NOT.

 

The Carnival Conquest class and the Concordia class (which includes Carnival Splendor) are ALL designed internally like this. The Carnival Dream class is also of similar layout internally with exact same bottlenecks and poor flow/signage issues.

 

Belting these ships out in conveyor belt system is all well and good, but compared to the original Carnival Destiny class ships, these larger ships are incredibly badly designed internally.

 

Whoever did the final cut in the floorplan design and access across the decks frankly needs shooting cos the lack of more than one deck in the public areas giving stem to stern access is potentially lethal.

 

One of the best ships I personally have sailed on for deck access is Costa Victoria (her sisters are Norwegian Sun and Norwegian Sky)...three decks internally with full stem to stern access through public areas, wide footways throughout - including around the atrium areas, simple/uncomplicated public room layout and brilliant signage.

 

The difference...apart from their size...is that Victoria, Sun and Sky are German built and they took longer to build than the Italian built Conquest/Concordia/Dream class ships.

 

The Concordia/Dream/Conquest class ships are fine for longer cruises but wholly unsuited to short or bus-stop type cruising where pax change on a daily basis and where those pax have little or no chance to really figure out the floorplans. There were hundreds that got lost on Pacifica, due to new pax boarding on 5 of the 6 days, they never had the chance to get to know the ship.

 

When I boarded in savona we had a full muster drill on deck 4 outside....subsequent embarking pax had a film to watch in an allotted by language public room and they could watch it again on their cabin TV. Unfortunately with a bus stop type cruise, there is no better way of doing the mustering as having everyone out on deck 4 every port day would be impossible and inefficient since many of the existing pax already on board from previous port days would be out on shorex.

 

Another point of interest is that these ships are not suited to Mediteranean in winter, Pacifica was blown around like a ragdoll...as Tonk alluded earlier, they are slab sided lumps of metal that are caught by wind gusts incredibly easily. The Mediterranean can be VERY stormy in winter and these ships are really built for calm seas...they have shallow draught, flat bottoms and way too much above the waterline to assist in maintaining stability.

 

So insofar as these ships are concerned, they DO have design issues that COULD POTENTIALLY prove lethal if the right set of circumstances came along.

[Vampire Parrot]

Would'nt it be cheaper to hire some tug boats to help and escort the ship in and out of port rather than risk damaging these expensive ships, not to mention, lives could have been lost?

I don't understand, maybe it would be exciting to go in and out of ports in gale storms and playing bumper boats but I don't think the airline industry takes those chances.

Of course tug boats are often used to get cruise ships in and out of port when the conditions are interesting.... but occasionally the ship's Master will be caught out if the wind increases. For example, the sideways force imposed by the wind on a cruise ship can be two hundred tons or more.

 

Airlines do take chances; I have several videos of aircraft landing in bad weather and "only just getting away with it". I showed one of these videos of an A320 attempting to land in a crosswind to a friend of mine, an A320 Captain, and in his opinion the crew and passengers were very lucky.... I have a video of a 747 landing in Hong Kong, short of the runway, pointing 20 degrees to the right of the runway heading, and only just getting away with it. And don't forget the MD-11 that crashed at Hong Kong in 1999....

 

Sometimes people take chances; it's just human nature. Training, experience and legal remedies do a very good job of improving the decision making process of those in charge, but there are still some rogue Captains out there....

 

VP

[CostaSmurfette]

Another point about the buoy last week aboard Pacifica..and why we had to use tugs from Marseille onwards and why - apart from the permanent repairs to her side - she will require drydocking in either January or February depending on availability of drydock facilities...

 

When the buoy broke loose from its anchor chains, those chains belted two of her bow thrusters, thus knocking them offline. Although no hull damage was done under the waterline, she did suffer damage to plant down there.

 

The drydocking will be for around 2-4 weeks and will mean cancelled cruises....the company are still sorting the "when".....if is not a case of "if" she will be taken out of service.

 

During the drydock she will have her usual annual maintenance brought forward, have the damaged hull plating that was temporarily covered to prevent water ingress cut out including the large dented/scraped areas and replaced, she will have the extensive interior damage to the crew areas repaired (mainly offices and part of the crew mess bar/dining room) and the bow thrusters will be replaced and/or repaired as required.

[Uniall]

OK Everybody....time is short,

 

You better shape up and straighten up your act fast:

 

 

 

John

 

 

..

[Tonka's Skipper]

With 2012 almost gone and the memories of a year of debate and of making new friends on line!........A Mery Christmas, Happy holidays and New Years to everyone here!:D

[Tonka's Skipper]

With almost a year of fun exchanges of ideas, opinions and guess work, I what to wish all my new friends here a Mery Christmas, Happy Holidays and New Years!:D

[Max49]

With 2012 almost gone and the memories of a year of debate and of making new friends on line!........A Mery Christmas' date=' Happy holidays and New Years to everyone here!:D[/quote']

 

Thanks Tonka andthe same back to you and all my CC friends