Concordia News: Please Post Here

[sidari]

Programme Interest for many people .... :)

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2172654/Was-Lusitania-war-crime-1-198-passengers-died-liner-sank-1915--German-torpedo-really-blame.html

[Uniall]

Don't forget that this happened in Italy, so it is Italian law that applies. Discussing how things should/would/could happen in the US courts may be interesting, but most likely that is now how things will play out in Italy. Not only are there differences in Law between US and Italy, but also differences in how investigations are conducted, charges filed, procedures used in courts, etc.

 

From what I understand, Italian Law operates much slower than that in the US. I would not be surprised to see the criminal case dragging on for 4 to 6 years, or even more.

 

From my perspective, the most important thing is that Captain Schettino never get anther command.

 

Greg

 

BTW, the pilot that caused to Cosco Busan oil spill in the SF Bay has applied to get his pilot's license restored.

 

You are correct. We've discussed those differences before.

 

Italian law is based upon Napoleonic Code Law which merges the invetigation and trial stages of the case and puts judges in charge of the combined process.

 

But, Italy is even more difficult and prolonged because they allow multiple bites of the apple and allow prosecutors and higher judges to restart the process, multiple times. That was done to prevent the Mafia from buying off or killing off judges and prosecutors.

[SomeBeach]

So sad.

Concordia victim's husband leaves plaque at reef

July 14, 2012 12:52 GMT

 

%reldate(2012-07-14T12:49:11

ROME (AP) -- The husband of an Italian woman who died when the Costa Concordia cruise liner rammed a reef and capsized has left a memorial plaque on the sea bed near the reef.

Accompanied by Italian Coast Guard divers, Elio Vincenzi plunged into the pristine waters off Giglio island in scuba diving gear Saturday to place the plaque 25 meters (82 feet) deep. A cross and photos of Maria Grazia Trecarichi, whose body has never been found, decorate the plaque.

Vincenzi told Sky TG24 TV that during the dive he experienced overwhelming emotion, which he'll remember for as long as he lives.

The Concordia rammed the reef and quickly capsized on Jan. 13 near Giglio, off the Tuscan coast.

[sidari]

That was done to prevent the Mafia from buying off or killing off judges and prosecutors

 

Uni ... Do you think they got away with it ? have you read Gomorrah by Roberto Saviano ? pertinent here because Schettino lives close to Naples and the Comorra which the book is about run Naples and other parts of Italy and its surroundings!

 

Who would want to be a judge or prosecuter there? the comorra make the Mafia look like schoolboys.

[NeverSoBer]

Hello everyone

 

Just a quick reply, whoever knew how things on Costa Cruise Lines are going, was not surprised with Concordia tragedy....

[Uniall]

That was done to prevent the Mafia from buying off or killing off judges and prosecutors

 

Uni ... Do you think they got away with it ? have you read Gomorrah by Roberto Saviano ? pertinent here because Schettino lives close to Naples and the Comorra which the book is about run Naples and other parts of Italy and its surroundings!

 

Who would want to be a judge or prosecuter there? the comorra make the Mafia look like schoolboys.

 

The Italians didn't tweak the system to prevent the killing and buying off of judges and prosecutors. They did it so the prosecution could proceed even if a judge or prosecutor had been bought or killed.

[cruiserfanfromct]

Video from Canadian television CBC translating parts of Schettino's exclusive interview into English:

 

[Uniall]

Video from Canadian television CBC translating parts of Schettino's exclusive interview into English:

 

 

After watching and listening to the CBC translation, it is apparent that no one will ever have to counsel Captain Schitino with words like:

 

"Get over it"

"You have to move on"

"Don't dwell on it"

"Pull yourself together"

"Make peace with yourself"

[cruiserfanfromct]

After watching and listening to the CBC translation, it is apparent that no one will ever have to counsel Captain Schitino with words like:

 

"Get over it"

"You have to move on"

"Don't dwell on it"

"Pull yourself together"

"Make peace with yourself"

Nor does he need counseling on how to play the blame game.

 

It’s the other officer's fault

The other officer did it

The other officer(s) did it

The distraction caused it

The Command failed me

Divine Fate did it

The Communications broke down

It's Pier Luigi Foschi's fault

It’s Ferranini's fault

Captain Palombo told me to do it - he said "pass close by"

No one told me where we were - it's no one's fault

It's the rock's fault - the rock was not on the map

It's the cell phone's fault

It's the ship's fault for going too fast

The radar failed me

It's the airtight doors' fault - they wouldn't close

The faulty black box did it

It's Carnival's fault

[cruiserfanfromct]

Questions to Ponder

 

Everyone who has been following the Costa Concordia tragedy knows that there are 30 confirmed deaths and 2 people still missing (presumed dead) bringing the death toll to 32.

 

It is also known that the deaths are the direct result of a “salute” gone terribly wrong.

 

Was the salute planned in advance and part of the itinerary? Was it Necessary? Authorized? Ordered? Required? Beneficial? Compelling?

 

Let’s break this down:

 

1. Was it planned in advance and part of the itinerary? The daily bulletin on the Concordia did advise that the Tuscan island of Giglio would be visible shortly after 9.30pm but would be five nautical miles away. In the words of Costa Crociere chairman and CEO Pier Luigi Foschi, "This route was put in correctly. The fact that it left from this course is due solely to a maneuver by the commander that was unapproved, unauthorized and unknown to Costa."

 

2. Was this salute necessary? "Sailing close to shore — for whatever reason other than for the safety of life, and especially not for entertaining passengers, crew or people ashore — is certainly not commonplace," John Dalby, a former oil tanker captain who now runs Marine Risk Management, told Reuters. "The vast majority of masters, officers and owners are far too responsible to indulge in such potentially dangerous practice. ... Neither do I know of any owners — including Carnival — who would advocate, propose, suggest or order such reckless, irresponsible actions."

 

3. Was the salute authorized? Costa Cruises have said they were not aware of the dangerous practice of bringing the ship so close to the shore (see Pier Luigi Foschi’s statement #1)

 

4. Was the salute ordered? Captain Schettino insists Costa executives ordered him to maneuver the ship close to the island in order to "please passengers and attract publicity". “Please the passengers”? The majority were at dinner, in the casinos, watching a magic show or at the many bars. “Attract publicity”? On a dark winter night on a remote island devoid of tourists and all but one hotel boarded up.

 

5. Was the salute required? No, not on January 13, 2012. Foschi revealed that there had been a required pre-authorized sail-by in the past. It was timed to coincide with the island's patron saint day. The Costa chief said that route was planned with the local maritime authority and was not a unilateral decision by the captain.

 

6. Was the salute beneficial? "How much risk was Schettino taking to give a wave? That's what we're talking about,” former captain Jim Staples states. “It's not worth the reward to make a few people happy when you look at what can go wrong."

 

7. Was the salute compelling? To the relatives of the dead (see list) and the eyes of the world, there was absolutely no compelling reason for the maneuver that led to this entirely preventable tragedy.

[Uniall]

Questions to Ponder

 

Everyone who has been following the Costa Concordia tragedy knows that there are 30 confirmed deaths and 2 people still missing (presumed dead) bringing the death toll to 32.

 

It is also known that the deaths are the direct result of a “salute” gone terribly wrong.

 

Was the salute planned in advance and part of the itinerary? Was it Necessary? Authorized? Ordered? Required? Beneficial? Compelling?

 

Let’s break this down:

 

1. Was it planned in advance and part of the itinerary? The daily bulletin on the Concordia did advise that the Tuscan island of Giglio would be visible shortly after 9.30pm but would be five nautical miles away. In the words of Costa Crociere chairman and CEO Pier Luigi Foschi, "This route was put in correctly. The fact that it left from this course is due solely to a maneuver by the commander that was unapproved, unauthorized and unknown to Costa."

 

2. Was this salute necessary? "Sailing close to shore — for whatever reason other than for the safety of life, and especially not for entertaining passengers, crew or people ashore — is certainly not commonplace," John Dalby, a former oil tanker captain who now runs Marine Risk Management, told Reuters. "The vast majority of masters, officers and owners are far too responsible to indulge in such potentially dangerous practice. ... Neither do I know of any owners — including Carnival — who would advocate, propose, suggest or order such reckless, irresponsible actions."

 

3. Was the salute authorized? Costa Cruises have said they were not aware of the dangerous practice of bringing the ship so close to the shore (see Pier Luigi Foschi’s statement #1)

 

4. Was the salute ordered? Captain Schettino insists Costa executives ordered him to maneuver the ship close to the island in order to "please passengers and attract publicity". “Please the passengers”? The majority were at dinner, in the casinos, watching a magic show or at the many bars. “Attract publicity”? On a dark winter night on a remote island devoid of tourists and all but one hotel boarded up.

 

5. Was the salute required? No, not on January 13, 2012. Foschi revealed that there had been a required pre-authorized sail-by in the past. It was timed to coincide with the island's patron saint day. The Costa chief said that route was planned with the local maritime authority and was not a unilateral decision by the captain.

 

6. Was the salute beneficial? "How much risk was Schettino taking to give a wave? That's what we're talking about,” former captain Jim Staples states. “It's not worth the reward to make a few people happy when you look at what can go wrong."

 

7. Was the salute compelling? To the relatives of the dead (see list) and the eyes of the world, there was absolutely no compelling reason for the maneuver that led to this entirely preventable tragedy.

 

Nice job, you've outlined the evidence of Gross Negligence or Gross Indifference resulting in death which equates to Manslaughter or 2nd or 3rd degree Murder, depending on the jurisdiction.

[sidari]

Nice job, you've outlined the evidence of Gross Negligence or Gross Indifference resulting in death which equates to Manslaughter or 2nd or 3rd degree Murder, depending on the jurisdiction.

 

Yes but in America!

[cruiserfanfromct]

Nice job, you've outlined the evidence of Gross Negligence or Gross Indifference resulting in death which equates to Manslaughter or 2nd or 3rd degree Murder, depending on the jurisdiction.

 

Yes but in America!

To translate into Italian law: (If there are any Italian lawyers out there please verify).

 

Injury resulting in death: Omicidio preterintenzionale occurs when, as a result of a deliberated act of violence not meant to kill (articles 581,582), the death of a person occurs. This crime is punishable with a sentence between 10 and 18 years (art.584). This sentence can be increased from one third to one half (up to 27 years) if a circumstance stated by articles 576 and 577 occurs, or if a weapon is used. Article 585.

 

Manslaughter: Omicidio colposo the action of causing the death of a person without intention, is punished with a sentence between 6 months and 5 years. If the victims are more than one as a consequence of the same act, multiple counts can be added up to 12 years in prison. Article 589.

 

Do you not agree with the Italian prosecutor, Francesco Verusio, who brought the manslaughter charges against Schettino? What charges, if any do you think Schettino should face for the deaths of 32 passengers?

[Tonka's Skipper]

Was it planned in advance and part of the itinerary? The daily bulletin on the Concordia did advise that the Tuscan island of Giglio would be visible shortly after 9.30pm but would be five nautical miles away. In the words of Costa Crociere chairman and CEO Pier Luigi Foschi, "This route was put in correctly. The fact that it left from this course is due solely to a maneuver by the commander that was unapproved, unauthorized and unknown to Costa."

 

 

Something doesn't seem right with this claim of 5 NM away. Looking at the approved/intended track(sail-by), the vessel was only going to be .4 or .5 NM off the reef when passing.

 

Obviously the vessel over shot her intended turn which is what caused her to hit the reef/rock, but even the intended/approved track is no where near 5 NM away from the island!

 

If the track shown is the approved sail-by.this Foschi either does not know what hes talking about or he is out right lying!

 

 

AKK

[cruiserfanfromct]

Was it planned in advance and part of the itinerary? The daily bulletin on the Concordia did advise that the Tuscan island of Giglio would be visible shortly after 9.30pm but would be five nautical miles away. In the words of Costa Crociere chairman and CEO Pier Luigi Foschi' date=' "This route was put in correctly. The fact that it left from this course is due solely to a maneuver by the commander that was unapproved, unauthorized and unknown to Costa."

 

 

Something doesn't seem right with this claim of 5 NM away. Looking at the approved/intended track(sail-by), the vessel was only going to be .4 or .5 NM off the reef when passing.

 

Obviously the vessel over shot her intended turn which is what caused her to hit the reef/rock, but even the intended/approved track is no where near 5 NM away from the island!

 

If the track shown is the approved sail-by.this Foschi either does not know what hes talking about or he is out right lying!

 

 

AKK[/quote']

5 NM is what was printed in the daily bulletin of that day's activities the passengers received NOT what Pier Luigi Foschi said. PLF made a statement that the salute at that close range by the Concordia was neither authorized nor known by Costa.

 

The point is that sailing at such close proximity was not done to benefit the passengers as they were not even aware the ship was sailing so close to shore - nor was it done to benefit the tourists on the island who had long left the island for the winter.

 

To whose benefit was the "fly by"? Certainly not the officers on the bridge. The head waiter? The retired captain? The ex-dancer from Moldovia? Was it worth the lives of 32 innocent victims?

[Uniall]

Nice job, you've outlined the evidence of Gross Negligence or Gross Indifference resulting in death which equates to Manslaughter or 2nd or 3rd degree Murder, depending on the jurisdiction.

 

Yes but in America!

 

Anywhere and even more so in any of the Napoleonic Code countries where the line between civil and criminal law liability if very blurred.

[Uniall]

To translate into Italian law: (If there are any Italian lawyers out there please verify).

 

Injury resulting in death: Omicidio preterintenzionale occurs when, as a result of a deliberated act of violence not meant to kill (articles 581,582), the death of a person occurs. This crime is punishable with a sentence between 10 and 18 years (art.584). This sentence can be increased from one third to one half (up to 27 years) if a circumstance stated by articles 576 and 577 occurs, or if a weapon is used. Article 585.

 

Manslaughter: Omicidio colposo the action of causing the death of a person without intention, is punished with a sentence between 6 months and 5 years. If the victims are more than one as a consequence of the same act, multiple counts can be added up to 12 years in prison. Article 589.

 

Do you not agree with the Italian prosecutor, Francesco Verusio, who brought the manslaughter charges against Schettino? What charges, if any do you think Schettino should face for the deaths of 32 passengers?

 

I think a case case could be brought for both crimes and it still can happen very easily.

 

In Italy, the prosecutor brings the initial charges based upon his premliminary investigation and the assigned judge continues the investigation and either one of them or a higher judge or prosecutor can increase the charges later.

Edited July 15, 2012 by Uniall

[Tonka's Skipper]

5 NM is what was printed in the daily bulletin of that day's activities the passengers received NOT what Pier Luigi Foschi said. PLF made a statement that the salute at that close range by the Concordia was neither authorized nor known by Costa.

 

The point is that sailing at such close proximity was not done to benefit the passengers as they were not even aware the ship was sailing so close to shore - nor was it done to benefit the tourists on the island who had long left the island for the winter.

 

To whose benefit was the "fly by"? Certainly not the officers on the bridge. The head waiter? The retired captain? The ex-dancer from Moldovia? Was it worth the lives of 32 innocent victims?

 

 

OK.my error, I miss read.................So we are back to Costa Operations approved of sail-byes in the past,just not this one!

 

Somehow I just don't believe it!

 

As to the legal end.............I really don't care why the sail-by happened for the passengers or a past Captain or who ever!...........The whole idea of taking a vessel that large, that close to a island, in steeply swallowing water, is in my professional opinion not only professionally stupid, its criminal period!

 

AKK

 

AKK

[cruiserfanfromct]

OK.my error' date=' I miss read.................So we are back to Costa Operations approved of sail-byes in the past,just not this one!

 

Somehow I just don't believe it!

 

As to the legal end.............I really don't care why the sail-by happened for the passengers or a past Captain or who ever!...........The whole idea of taking a vessel that large, that close to a island, in steeply swallowing water, is in my professional opinion not only professionally stupid, its criminal period!

 

AKK

 

AKK[/quote']

Agreed. It's unfortunate that 32 people had to pay the ultimate price for one man’s stupidity.

[sidari]

What charges, if any do you think Schettino should face for the deaths of 32 passengers?

 

CT ... It does not matter what charges i think he should face because i will not be the one making them! the people given the job of doing so will in due course make a decision on what charges he will face.

 

Tonka ... the 5 NM talked about would at a guess and without looking at the map put Concordia in the centre line between Giglio and the Mainland and that is probably what Foschi was talking about and the fallback for Costa should anything happen to one of their ships doing a sailby of Giglio.

 

The Half mile track that was plotted and previously used by concordia and no doubt other costa ships would have been no problem that night had the ship not gone beyond it, it would be interesting to hear what speed the previous sailby/s was done at.

 

Uni ... As there were members of crew who died could the Head of Costa face charges of Corporate Manslughter ?

[Uniall]

What charges, if any do you think Schettino should face for the deaths of 32 passengers?

 

CT ... It does not matter what charges i think he should face because i will not be the one making them! the people given the job of doing so will in due course make a decision on what charges he will face.

 

Tonka ... the 5 NM talked about would at a guess and without looking at the map put Concordia in the centre line between Giglio and the Mainland and that is probably what Foschi was talking about and the fallback for Costa should anything happen to one of their ships doing a sailby of Giglio.

 

The Half mile track that was plotted and previously used by concordia and no doubt other costa ships would have been no problem that night had the ship not gone beyond it, it would be interesting to hear what speed the previous sailby/s was done at.

 

Uni ... As there were members of crew who died could the Head of Costa face charges of Corporate Manslughter ?

 

Just release him into the custody of the deceadents' families on some remote island for 24 hours.

[cruiserfanfromct]

What charges, if any do you think Schettino should face for the deaths of 32 passengers?

 

CT ... It does not matter what charges i think he should face because i will not be the one making them! the people given the job of doing so will in due course make a decision on what charges he will face.

Understood Sid. I realize we're not the court here - not that delusional. Just wanted to get your opinion - that's all. :D

 

Does the concept of corporate manslaughter exist in the U.K.? I don't believe there are any specific corporate manslaughter laws in the U.S.

[Uniall]

Understood Sid. I realize we're not the court here - not that delusional. Just wanted to get your opinion - that's all. :D

 

Does the concept of corporate manslaughter exist in the U.K.? I don't believe there are any specific corporate manslaughter laws in the U.S.

 

The US does have the ability to attach criminal guilt on a corportions and or it's officers and directors:

 

States:conspiracy, attempt, etc. (penalty is usually the same as the substantive crime)

 

Feds: RICO (criminal organizations), PATRIOT (terrorist organizations), etc.

[SomeBeach]

Questions to Ponder

 

Everyone who has been following the Costa Concordia tragedy knows that there are 30 confirmed deaths and 2 people still missing (presumed dead) bringing the death toll to 32.

 

It is also known that the deaths are the direct result of a “salute” gone terribly wrong.

 

Was the salute planned in advance and part of the itinerary? Was it Necessary? Authorized? Ordered? Required? Beneficial? Compelling?

 

Let’s break this down:

 

1. Was it planned in advance and part of the itinerary? The daily bulletin on the Concordia did advise that the Tuscan island of Giglio would be visible shortly after 9.30pm but would be five nautical miles away. In the words of Costa Crociere chairman and CEO Pier Luigi Foschi, "This route was put in correctly. The fact that it left from this course is due solely to a maneuver by the commander that was unapproved, unauthorized and unknown to Costa."

 

2. Was this salute necessary? "Sailing close to shore — for whatever reason other than for the safety of life, and especially not for entertaining passengers, crew or people ashore — is certainly not commonplace," John Dalby, a former oil tanker captain who now runs Marine Risk Management, told Reuters. "The vast majority of masters, officers and owners are far too responsible to indulge in such potentially dangerous practice. ... Neither do I know of any owners — including Carnival — who would advocate, propose, suggest or order such reckless, irresponsible actions."

 

3. Was the salute authorized? Costa Cruises have said they were not aware of the dangerous practice of bringing the ship so close to the shore (see Pier Luigi Foschi’s statement #1)

 

4. Was the salute ordered? Captain Schettino insists Costa executives ordered him to maneuver the ship close to the island in order to "please passengers and attract publicity". “Please the passengers”? The majority were at dinner, in the casinos, watching a magic show or at the many bars. “Attract publicity”? On a dark winter night on a remote island devoid of tourists and all but one hotel boarded up.

 

5. Was the salute required? No, not on January 13, 2012. Foschi revealed that there had been a required pre-authorized sail-by in the past. It was timed to coincide with the island's patron saint day. The Costa chief said that route was planned with the local maritime authority and was not a unilateral decision by the captain.

 

6. Was the salute beneficial? "How much risk was Schettino taking to give a wave? That's what we're talking about,” former captain Jim Staples states. “It's not worth the reward to make a few people happy when you look at what can go wrong."

 

7. Was the salute compelling? To the relatives of the dead (see list) and the eyes of the world, there was absolutely no compelling reason for the maneuver that led to this entirely preventable tragedy.

 

You have to admit, the Captain did do your 4th point... "attract publicity."

[mickey_d_mouse]

http://au.news.yahoo.com/today-tonight/video/watch/29978975/coming-up-on-today-tonight/

 

 

Hi Guys,

 

This supposedly is the first of the English speaking interviews with Captain Coward, they rang me last wednesday and asked me to jump on a plane Wednesday night to go to Rome to be there, unfortunately I couldnt manage it, and don't even know if I would have wanted to. They did Interview myself and katharine at home not sure if any of that is in there or if thats on the cutting room floor.

 

Schettino is set to make a fortune from these interviews whilst we are still negotiating for a fair settlement it is so unfair. Doesnt Italy have proceeds of crimes legislation.