Gratuity or Hotel charge?

[cruzincurt]

I just came off a nice cruise on the Westerdam. Since I haven't been on HAL for two years, I wonder if I missed some fine print somewhere?:confused:

 

First, before everyone jumps on me slowly read the following:

 

I've cruised before, on HAL and others, and I know the drill.

 

I know you all pay gratuities in excess of the recommended amounts.

 

I know the crew works hard and only gets $5 a day.

 

Yes, I know tipping is an American thing, and some avoid tipping.

 

And yes, I always have paid gratuities.

 

So mid-week, I asked my tablemates, who were first time HAL cruisers and I know they hung on every word from the CD, what's been said about gratuities? Their response: "It's included in the cruise fare."

 

Really? I thought that claim disappeared years ago.

 

So off to the main desk I go to see about adding my gratuities to my room account. Lo and behold they reply, "No need to, we've been charging you every day already."

 

So, I get a printout and the entries are listed as "Hotel Service Charge". So at first thought, after paying the cruise fare, I'm now being charged to use my cabin and the dining room. After all that's what a "service charge" means to me, pay for the use of a service.

 

I think I could have had the "service charges" removed and pay tips the old fashioned way "cash" or was I expected to also pay gratuities on top of the "service charge"? That's why I went to the front desk to get some envelopes.

 

So is the "service charge" extra and not related to gratuities, are they "gratuities" disguised as service charges, and/or are the gratuities really already included in the fare?

 

If the "hotel service charges" are meant to be "gratuities", then call them as such, otherwise I see them as additional fare to use the cabin and eat.

 

I think my tablemates had a "surprise" waiting for them Sunday morning.:eek:

 

So I think I might have missed the fine print where such charges are automatically billed to my account without asking or at least told about it at registration.

[jtl513]

So I think I might have missed the fine print where such charges are automatically billed to my account without asking or at least told about it at registration.

Yes, you must have overlooked reading it. The following is from Know Before You Go, but I believe it's also in the edocs.

 

HOTEL SERVICE CHARGE

Our crew works very hard to make sure that every aspect of

your cruise meets the highest standards. This includes those

crew members who serve you directly, such as Dining Room

wait staff and the stewards who service your stateroom each

day. There are also many others who support their efforts

whom you may never meet, such as galley and laundry staff.

To ensure that the efforts of all of our crew members are

recognized and rewarded, a daily Hotel Service Charge is

automatically added to each guest’s shipboard account.

Beginning with sailings departing after December 2nd, 2011,

the daily Hotel Service Charge for suites is US$12.00* per guest

per day, and US$11.50* per guest per day for other staterooms.

All sailings departing prior to December 2nd, 2011, the daily

Hotel Service Charge is US$11.00* per guest per day. (*The

charges are subject to change without notice.) For more details, please visit “Money Matters” under the Shipboard Life section of our

website at http://www.hollandamerica.com.

 

If our service exceeds or fails to meet your expectations, you

are free to adjust this amount at the end of each segment

and/or voyage. The Hotel Service Charge is paid to Holland

America Line crew members, and represents an important

part of their compensation. A 15% Bar Service Charge is

automatically added to bar charges and Dining Room wine

purchases. In terminals, airports, ports of call and on shore

excursions, we suggest that you extend gratuities consistent

with customary local practices.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Seems to me that since since you haven't sailed for awhile on HAL -- your TA should have explained about the Hotel Service Charge (amount per day per person) as well as the 15% gratuity that is added onto all bills for drinks, bottled water, sodas, etc.

This has been in effect for a few years now.

[HealthyTouch101]

When asked, on our last cruise, the CD said that if we removed the tips and paid cash, those receiving the cash had to share it. If we left the "hotel service charge" and paid cash above that, they did not.

 

We leave the service charge. It is convenient and fair and we factor it into the cost of the trip. Same with the 15% on drinks, etc.

[mllewis48]

I for one love the way it is done now since it is distributed more fairly to ALL crew members vs. the old way where only those that received tips from passengers were the only ones tipped. The distribution is broken down to Dining Room and Cabin Stewards and their helpers and a smaller amount to those "behind the scenes" crew members. The bar staff is tipped by you buying drinks. If you choose to tip above the $11.50 that's great but I question how HAL knows that if you remove your tips and choose to tip individuals that they get to keep those tips and do not have them distributed? To do so would require each person that is tipped to report who tipped them so the Front Office could "do their thing", which is a nightmare of a job, at least in my opinion.

 

For what we are receiving throughout a cruise as far as service is well worth $11.50 pp per day.

 

If you have dinner in a 5 Star restaurant the tip is most likely going to exceed $23 that you pay per day on a cruise.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[styles27]

HAL isn't the only line automatically adding the daily fee on to your account...we've had it done on RCCL and Princess.

 

I'm not sure how I feel about it, quite honestly. I've always just paid it without much thought.

 

I guess in a perfect world, cruiseline's would pay their crewmembers a fair market wage and we wouldn't have to have the Hotel charges added on to our account. BUT, we all know that our fares would be a heck of a lot higher than what they are now.

 

I just hope that most passengers actually pay the surcharge and don't have it removed from their accounts.

 

Also, I've heard the "$5 a day wage" before...does anybody actually know if there's any truth to that?

[iceleven]

We always pay the add-on gratuity and do so without reservations. We always add a gratuity to our room steward and dining servers and do so according to their "outstanding" service. I do wish, however, that the cruise lines would simply pay them the extra money they deserve and not cause all of this confusion and frequent questioning. I'm sure it has to do with the cruise lines avoiding having to pay more taxes for their higher wages or some sort of similar excuse. Having it the way they do it now simply allows for a lot of cheap excuses to not respect those who work very hard for their living.

[cruzincurt]

I guess I missed the fine print. So, now that such "service charges" are pretty much "mandatory", in my opinion it's a hidden cruise fare added once on board that is supposed to go directly to the crew. When I give cash, they get the full amount, when I use the shipboard charge account they get less due to the credit card fee and I wonder if the cruiseline adds their own "administrative" fees before passing the amounts on.

 

RCCL makes it mandatory for those choosing "Anytime Dining" so that the staff gets compensated, for fixed seating diners it is still available but voluntary.

 

All this means it is not really "tips" or "gratuities" in the true sense but it is a payroll supplement. So now, we pay the cruiseline for the cruise; the crew separately for their service.

[styles27]

I guess I missed the fine print. So, now that such "service charges" are pretty much "mandatory", in my opinion it's a hidden cruise fare added once on board that is supposed to go directly to the crew. When I give cash, they get the full amount, when I use the shipboard charge account they get less due to the credit card fee and I wonder if the cruiseline adds their own "administrative" fees before passing the amounts on.

 

RCCL makes it mandatory for those choosing "Anytime Dining" so that the staff gets compensated, for fixed seating diners it is still available but voluntary.

 

All this means it is not really "tips" or "gratuities" in the true sense but it is a payroll supplement. So now, we pay the cruiseline for the cruise; the crew separately for their service.

 

It isn't mandatory on HAL or RCCL or any other line I've sailed...you can opt out of these charges by visiting the front desk and asking to have the charges removed.

 

 

I too have wondered if the crew do in fact get the entire amount.

 

I have always considered the suggested gratuities to be part of the final price of the cruise.

 

I like that it can be added on to our account because I don't like travelling with a lot of cash and I hated the days where we had to put cash in the individual envelopes for each person.

[PathfinderEss]

Then there is those of us who have no problems with the manditory tip charge and on top of that still hand out envelopes to stewards that do more then what is required. They gives us superb service above and beyond and there are lots of them.

[jtl513]

It isn't mandatory on HAL or RCCL or any other line I've sailed...you can opt out of these charges by visiting the front desk and asking to have the charges removed.

The only legitimate reason to opt out of the HSC is if you received inadequate service. As Know Before You Go notes:

If our service exceeds or fails to meet your expectations, you are free to adjust this amount ...

I too have wondered if the crew do in fact get the entire amount.

Yes, they do.

[ASIWISH]

It's no different that tipping at a restaurant. The restaurants pay the wait staff a mere pittance, and rely heavily of guest gratuity to compensate the staff.

 

I will say, not to judge here, but it was sad to see all the people lined up at the front desk on the last night of our cruise last month, to have the Service Charge removed from their accounts, so they "could tip the crew directly".

 

As we sat there in line, no less that five people were requesting it.

 

(OK, I'm judging a little…)

 

The reality: If the cruise line paid the crew the Service Charge amount, it would simply be added to the cost of the cruise… so deal with it. Pay the Service Charge, and enjoy your cruise and the wonderful, gracious service! (I'm not speaking directly to the OP, just to passengers in general)

[innlady1]

It's no different that tipping at a restaurant. The restaurants pay the wait staff a mere pittance, and rely heavily of guest gratuity to compensate the staff.

 

I will say, not to judge here, but it was sad to see all the people lined up at the front desk on the last night of our cruise last month, to have the Service Charge removed from their accounts, so they "could tip the crew directly".

 

As we sat there in line, no less that five people were requesting it.

 

(OK, I'm judging a little…)

 

The reality: If the cruise line paid the crew the Service Charge amount, it would simply be added to the cost of the cruise… so deal with it. Pay the Service Charge, and enjoy your cruise and the wonderful, gracious service! (I'm not speaking directly to the OP, just to passengers in general)

 

 

Great post, Kevin. You're spot on.

[PatsyAnne]

 

I guess in a perfect world, cruiseline's would pay their crewmembers a fair market wage and we wouldn't have to have the Hotel charges added on to our account. BUT, we all know that our fares would be a heck of a lot higher than what they are now.

 

But then in a perfect world, there would be no tips or bonuses, and all people would be paid what their labor was worth, and everyone would do their best every day just because they want to and not because they will be rewarded above their base wage. And the union workers (supposedly already receiving a fair market wage) controlling the freight elevators in a skyscraper in New York wouldn't have held up a move for three months until bribed the "expected" amount (hmmm, I guess that one still bugs me after all these years).

 

I guess I'm saying that the calculation of fair market wages isn't simple, and becomes more complex when you add in the different cultural and legal aspects of an international company. Here in the US, we assume that restaurant servers total compensation includes an expected percent tip, their wages are set accordingly, and the IRS audits them with those expectations. Some other countries have the expectation that their total compensation is their wages and customers rarely tip. Same thing in the IT industry, with compensation for sales more heavily leveraged than that of technical support.

 

I'm saying that the cruise lines have to take all of these considerations (legal and cultural) into account, and the crew members make the decision to work for them knowing how and how much they will be paid. That sounds fair to me.

[serendipity1499]

This comes up in CC several times a year..I downloaded several Posts by Phillip217 who has been a Hotel Mgr. on many different cruise lines for years..

Phillip gives the history of tipping in his posts in 2008 & said that The crew have a guaranteed Salary according to their carefully negotiated contracts of $1600 to $2200 per month..That may have increased since 2008..Then Phillip goes on to say, if tips & salaries were included in your fare several problems would arise such as

!) Trade Organizations from many different Governments would have to approve them

2) They would be commissionable to Travel Agents

3) Cruise lines would have to pay sales taxes on them

4) They would be trackable & in many countries tipped employees would be forced to pay income taxes on their wages..Most of them pay little or no taxes now..

5) Your cruise fare would be much more to make up for those taxes & HAL would out price themselves & be much more than their competators....

IMO now the $23 tip (ie HotelService Charge) would be significantly down & the employee would get much less..

To get the full story from him check out this CC thread & be sure to read Post No.11, 50 & 55:

"Can someone explain the Theory of Cruise ship Tipping" http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=14792811&postcount=11

Also some might want to check out another thread by Bruce Muzz a Senior Officer who in 2007 explained auto tipping to a poster..His posts No. 21 & 61 are also interesting..

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=620368&page=2

 

I too was one of those who could not understand why the Cruise Lines did not incorporate it into their fare..The explanations from these Gentlemen sure opened my eyes..[/COLOR]

Happy Cruising & Happy Spring Everyone!

Cheers...Betty[/size]

:

[Krazy Kruizers]

All too often we used to see people run out of the dining room on the last night of the cruise just to avoid tipping the wait staff. One time we were the only ones left in our wait staff area when they came back from singing their farewell song. To see those happy faces turn to looking so sad broke my heart.

I was glad to when HAL decided to go with the automatic Hotel Service Charge.

We have never though for one minute of ever removing it.

[ASIWISH]

Great post, Kevin. You're spot on.

 

There's a first time for everything, Sheila!!

 

:D:D

[innlady1]

There's a first time for everything, Sheila!!

 

:D:D

 

I wouldn't say that...I always enjoy your posts, Kevin!

[ASIWISH]

I wouldn't say that...I always enjoy your posts, Kevin!

 

That made my day… thank you!

 

(sorry for the side track, everyone… it's just Sheila is so thoughtful!!!!!)

[Typhoon1]

The hotel service charge of $11.50 per day, $12.00 for suites has been there for quite a number of years.

[world~citizen]

...I guess I'm saying that the calculation of fair market wages isn't simple, ...crew members make the decision to work for them knowing how and how much they will be paid. That sounds fair to me.

 

Agreed. Wage and price discovery mechanisms do not merit the reverence accorded to them by conservative libertarians.:D

 

As I understand it, HAL staff negotiated the inclusion of the service charge in customer bills.

 

Tipping is a fact of life, from the doorman to the waitress, taxi drivers, tour bus divers, tour guides, concierges, housekeepers, porters...and the list goes on.

 

I am all for paying higher fares to avoid a gratuity, if it means cheapskates who don't pay tips get to pony-up.;)

 

Smooth sailing...

[Hawaiidan]

As you read these pages and others, you discover a type of person lookikng to get the most for the least. Every little way to make even a few cents is a bid deal to them. ( hOW to save on sales tax on a bottle of booze.maybe $1.80 !! The cancel the tips, The" if its free its for me", crowd as they pile their plates to overflowing, steal towels and ashtrays. ) These are the same people who used to skip the last night too. I know some, that stuff bread in their pockets in Restauraunts, sneak into shows, and are forever wanting. They are well aware of their actions and proud of all the ways they can get away with their ways.

 

Who cares what it is called; anyone with a second grade education should be able to understand and figgure out that it is one in the same. Tip Hotel charge, Service charge, It is the amount you are aware of that every line but the luxury lines charge and have been for decade.. What new?. Its not rocket science...

[NoobCruise]

I don't understand why so many people grumble so much about it. For a deluxe suite, it's $12 per person per day so for a 7 day cruise, you're only paying $84 for ALL of the services you receive - restaurant, room steward, everything. If you were doing a land vacation, you would probably pay a lot more then that just in restaurant tips for breakfast, lunch and dinner....well, unless you're a complete scrooge, which it sounds like quite a few cruisers are :rolleyes:

[michmike]

Every time this topic comes up, I make the same observation... CALL it a service charge, NOT a gratuity of any sort, and DO NOT allow it to be removed.

 

That solves the problem. As for those who want it all included in the price... have you looked at your hotel bill lately.. resort fees, local tax, state tax, convention center tax, etc..

all of the sudden a $125 room is $154. Good luck on getting any of those removed.

 

Those that remove the service charge are cheap so and sos ..period. If they can't afford it or they feel that they received abysmal service (which we all know they do not) then let them book w/ a different line the next time.

 

I can't understand why HAL hesitates to do this. Just say to folks "that's the way it is... end of story".

[TheDarkestBlue]

I heard someone grumbling about the difference in pricing for their country, and how some of their compatriots "opt out of the tip system" I guess as a protest of sorts over pricing they can't get? How they can justify hitting up the hardworking crew for something they have no control over is beyond me.... obviously if there is a problem with service that is another thing.