Gratuity or Hotel charge?

[styles27]

Tipping is a fact of life, from the doorman to the waitress, taxi drivers, tour bus divers, tour guides, concierges, housekeepers, porters...and the list goes on.

 

I am all for paying higher fares to avoid a gratuity, if it means cheapskates who don't pay tips get to pony-up.;)

 

Smooth sailing...

 

Don't forget your hairstylist! (that's what I do for a living)

 

I am a generous tipper because I appreciate receiving generous tips for great service.

 

 

The main reason I'd like it to be mandatory is exactly the reason you posted...why should "cheapskates" get away with "opting out"...everyone needs to pony-up.

 

 

There are lines that include everything in the price of the cruise so it can be done.

[jtl513]

Every time this topic comes up, I make the same observation... CALL it a service charge, NOT a gratuity of any sort, and DO NOT allow it to be removed.

HAL does call it a Hotel Service Charge, and it's only on forums such as this that people persist in calling it a tip. See post #2.

 

The problem with making it absolutely non-removable is that people shouldn't have to pay for occasional unsatisfactory service that was reported to management and not corrected.

[styles27]

The problem with making it absolutely non-removable is that people shouldn't have to pay for occasional unsatisfactory service that was reported to management and not corrected.

 

On all of the cruises we've been on, I can think of maybe 1 or 2 staff members that were less than satisfactory.

 

I wouldn't punish the majority that were wonderful by removing the fee.

 

I have a feeling that's how some people justify having it removed, and that's a shame.

[Silver sailor]

Cruzincurt

You have been a member of cruise critic for 11 years

Taken 32 cruises some on the Oasis and Allure of the Seas in service since daily "fees" were in place

I believe RCL also charges a daily fee

Call it what you want try to spin it to fit whatever terminology you want but

I do find it hard to believe this is a new concept to you

[world~citizen]

...I have a feeling that's how some people justify having it removed, and that's a shame.

 

Can't rule it out.

 

The tip calculation is low by any standard. The gratuity for a dinner for two in a comparable land restaurant would be around 15 - 20 dollars for a hundred dollar tab. What is the higher principal? Punishment for perceived poor service, or allowing the mild gratuity in deference to human dignity - the realization that in life we are all in the same boat.

 

For myself, a cancelled gratuity reflects more on the pax than the crew.

 

That is just me.

[cruzincurt]

 

Who cares what it is called; anyone with a second grade education should be able to understand and figgure out that it is one in the same. Tip Hotel charge, Service charge, It is the amount you are aware of that every line but the luxury lines charge and have been for decade.. What new?. Its not rocket science...

You are correct, it is not rocket science. It does matter what it is called. As "service charge" it is a planned payroll supplement. "Gratuities or tips" are a voluntary contribution for the level of services rendered. It is new, gratuities was a "recommended" practice, calling it a "service charge" is new.

 

The cruise lines are flat out saying this extra money is needed to pay the crew.

[cruzincurt]

Cruzincurt

You have been a member of cruise critic for 11 years

Taken 32 cruises some on the Oasis and Allure of the Seas in service since daily "fees" were in place

I believe RCL also charges a daily fee

Call it what you want try to spin it to fit whatever terminology you want but

I do find it hard to believe this is a new concept to you

It is not a new concept to me. But I believe this is the first cruise I've seen it called "hotel service charge". Don't get me wrong, I've been contributing my gratuities since my first cruise. As I pointed out in my first post, I went to the pursers desk to inquire how I could add my "gratuities" to my room account.

 

Daily gratuities are still voluntary on RCCL (at least they were last December) unless you choose MTD. A person has to manually fill in a form and deliver it to the pursers desk to add automatic gratuities to their account unless they choose MTD. My comment was that HAL just did so automatically.

[michmike]

HAL does call it a Hotel Service Charge, and it's only on forums such as this that people persist in calling it a tip. See post #2.

 

The problem with making it absolutely non-removable is that people shouldn't have to pay for occasional unsatisfactory service that was reported to management and not corrected.

 

I think there are other ways to compensate a passenger for glitches in service. And once I have brought an issue to management's attention, I simply climb the ladder if I don't get a resolution at step 1. Wife hates that I am very polite and low key at step 1, but amp up the attitude as I go higher, if not resolved where it should be. But there are things like OBC, comp meals at Pinnacle, a drink card, etc that can be used to address customer concerns, short of removing the service charge.

 

That, at least, prevents the "I'm gonna handle this tipping thing MY way" component from stiffing what are IMHO very hardworking staff who go out of their way to please.

[serendipity1499]

You are correct, it is not rocket science. It does matter what it is called. As "service charge" it is a planned payroll supplement. "Gratuities or tips" are a voluntary contribution for the level of services rendered. It is new, gratuities was a "recommended" practice, calling it a "service charge" is new.

 

The cruise lines are flat out saying this extra money is needed to pay the crew.

 

BTW, The Hotel Service Charge or Gratuity on HAL is not new.. ;) We first saw it on NCL many years ago..I have several of our final HAL invoices from a few of our cruises..

In 2006 we were billed daily for a "Gratituity"..Do not have our final invoices for 2007 or 2008, but in Nov. of 2009, Aug of 2010 & Nov 2010 in addition to our Jan 2012 bills they all had "Hotel Service charge" on our final invoice...So either a gratuity or a "Hotel Service Charge" was there at least since 2006...Not so new!

Did you happen to read the two URL's I posted in which Phillip & Bruce Muzz explained the reasons?

 

Betty

[Krazy Kruizers]

On all of the cruises we've been on, I can think of maybe 1 or 2 staff members that were less than satisfactory.

 

I wouldn't punish the majority that were wonderful by removing the fee.

 

I have a feeling that's how some people justify having it removed, and that's a shame.

 

Over the years we have also had a couple of staff members who were not great.

And we are the same -- just because 1 or 2 were not great -- we would never think of removing the Hotel Service Chargers as we do not want to punish those who have been wonderful to us.

[sun~]

 

Daily gratuities are still voluntary on RCCL (at least they were last December) unless you choose MTD. A person has to manually fill in a form and deliver it to the pursers desk to add automatic gratuities to their account unless they choose MTD. My comment was that HAL just did so automatically.

 

Yes was still voluntary on RCI as of January. However, I had an interesting chat with my waiter and room steward. They HATE that it is not mandatory. Yep folks skipped the final meal. Yep they stiffed the room steward. They both said they would love to have the mandatory system in place that is on other cruise lines. So all the folks who think the crew are getting more money from cash tips are delusional. They also hated that they had to rely on a 'rating' system. The waiter explained how the pecking order was in the dining room, a waiter being 'punished' would get small, inside tables and few passengers, the primo tables were by the windows.

 

With the mandatory service charge The staff is treated much better, they have a more reliable paycheque and are happier.

 

If you had bad service one evening at dinner, do you really care if $3.50 is deducted? Really that's what it boils down to. But as you all know the cheap b*stards who remove tips, remove all of them "but I had bad service at dinner".

As everyone who is used to dining out in half way decent restaurants knows that the $3 bucks or less for a dinner tip is a fraction of what you would pay on a land based restaurant. If hubby and I go out for dinner to an ok place the tip would be about $15 to $20. A nice restaurant the tip may run to $60 or $70 dollars. Why folks gripe over PENNIES for cruise service charges is beyond me.

 

Cough up cheapskates. Leave the service charge alone.

 

Sheila in Ottawa

[dazadelaide]

Every time this topic comes up, I make the same observation... CALL it a service charge, NOT a gratuity of any sort, and DO NOT allow it to be removed.

 

That solves the problem. As for those who want it all included in the price... have you looked at your hotel bill lately.. resort fees, local tax, state tax, convention center tax, etc..

all of the sudden a $125 room is $154. Good luck on getting any of those removed.

 

Those that remove the service charge are cheap so and sos ..period. If they can't afford it or they feel that they received abysmal service (which we all know they do not) then let them book w/ a different line the next time.

 

I can't understand why HAL hesitates to do this. Just say to folks "that's the way it is... end of story".

I agree with you Michmike.

Being an Aussie, all this tipping is alien to me, but i do understand the reasoning behind it.

I will pay the $12 per day with without any thought about having it ever removed the staff deserve as much as they can get.

I work with the public so I know how much crap staff have to put up with!

That said, in my opinion HAL should NOT allow it to be removed just make it part of the total cruise cost just keep it itemised on your bill.

Daz

[Wakepatrol]

It really seems so simple . Don't partake in the muster drill you're off the ship.

 

Don't agree to pay tips, service charge, hotel charge whatever you want to call it. (simple paper to sign at check in) you don't board the ship.

 

This... we can adjust it just leaves the door open for the cheapskates.

What a joke.

 

The guy that removes the tips also buys a shirt wears it to a Sunday wedding, spills wine on it... Then returns it on Monday pit stains and all.

[dazadelaide]

It really seems so simple . Don't partake in the muster drill you're off the ship.

 

Don't agree to pay tips, service charge, hotel charge whatever you want to call it. (simple paper to sign at check in) you don't board the ship.

 

This... we can adjust it just leaves the door open for the cheapskates.

What a joke.

 

The guy that removes the tips also buys a shirt wears it to a Sunday wedding, spills wine on it... Then returns it on Monday pit stains and all.

 

Well said!

The bit about the shirt is a classic.

I sell clothes for a living and this has actually happened to me on more than one occasion.

Daz

[Taxguy77]

I for one love the way it is done now since it is distributed more fairly to ALL crew members vs. the old way where only those that received tips from passengers were the only ones tipped. The distribution is broken down to Dining Room and Cabin Stewards and their helpers and a smaller amount to those "behind the scenes" crew members. The bar staff is tipped by you buying drinks. If you choose to tip above the $11.50 that's great but I question how HAL knows that if you remove your tips and choose to tip individuals that they get to keep those tips and do not have them distributed? To do so would require each person that is tipped to report who tipped them so the Front Office could "do their thing", which is a nightmare of a job, at least in my opinion.

 

For what we are receiving throughout a cruise as far as service is well worth $11.50 pp per day.

 

If you have dinner in a 5 Star restaurant the tip is most likely going to exceed $23 that you pay per day on a cruise.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

I hope you don't consider cruise ship food 5 star!:eek:

[Taxguy77]

I guess I missed the fine print. So, now that such "service charges" are pretty much "mandatory", in my opinion it's a hidden cruise fare added once on board that is supposed to go directly to the crew. When I give cash, they get the full amount, when I use the shipboard charge account they get less due to the credit card fee and I wonder if the cruiseline adds their own "administrative" fees before passing the amounts on.

 

RCCL makes it mandatory for those choosing "Anytime Dining" so that the staff gets compensated, for fixed seating diners it is still available but voluntary.

 

All this means it is not really "tips" or "gratuities" in the true sense but it is a payroll supplement. So now, we pay the cruiseline for the cruise; the crew separately for their service.

 

NOW you got it. Just add it AND port charges to the fare to find out the cost.

[Taxguy77]

This comes up in CC several times a year..I downloaded several Posts by Phillip217 who has been a Hotel Mgr. on many different cruise lines for years..

Phillip gives the history of tipping in his posts in 2008 & said that The crew have a guaranteed Salary according to their carefully negotiated contracts of $1600 to $2200 per month..That may have increased since 2008..Then Phillip goes on to say, if tips & salaries were included in your fare several problems would arise such as

!) Trade Organizations from many different Governments would have to approve them

2) They would be commissionable to Travel Agents

3) Cruise lines would have to pay sales taxes on them

4) They would be trackable & in many countries tipped employees would be forced to pay income taxes on their wages..Most of them pay little or no taxes now..

5) Your cruise fare would be much more to make up for those taxes & HAL would out price themselves & be much more than their competators....

IMO now the $23 tip (ie HotelService Charge) would be significantly down & the employee would get much less..

To get the full story from him check out this CC thread & be sure to read Post No.11, 50 & 55:

"Can someone explain the Theory of Cruise ship Tipping" http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=14792811&postcount=11

Also some might want to check out another thread by Bruce Muzz a Senior Officer who in 2007 explained auto tipping to a poster..His posts No. 21 & 61 are also interesting..

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=620368&page=2

 

I too was one of those who could not understand why the Cruise Lines did not incorporate it into their fare..The explanations from these Gentlemen sure opened my eyes..[/COLOR]

Happy Cruising & Happy Spring Everyone!

Cheers...Betty[/size]

:

 

So you're saying that if we don't agree to this deception of governments we are ?:confused:

[Taxguy77]

As you read these pages and others, you discover a type of person lookikng to get the most for the least. Every little way to make even a few cents is a bid deal to them. ( hOW to save on sales tax on a bottle of booze.maybe $1.80 !! The cancel the tips, The" if its free its for me", crowd as they pile their plates to overflowing, steal towels and ashtrays. ) These are the same people who used to skip the last night too. I know some, that stuff bread in their pockets in Restauraunts, sneak into shows, and are forever wanting. They are well aware of their actions and proud of all the ways they can get away with their ways.

..

 

Yes.

I rented my home to a nurse when I moved to Texas; she moved out and took USED litghtbulbs out of ceiling fixtures!!!! Maybe got $0.10/ hr.!

Thought of some others, but they DO exist, and some even try cruiseships, Da------.

[Mar56]

So you're saying that if we don't agree to this deception of governments we are ?:confused:

 

 

As a tax accountant

that part of the explanation bothered me as well.

[serendipity1499]

So you're saying that if we don't agree to this deception of governments we are ?:confused:

 

As a tax accountant

that part of the explanation bothered me as well.

 

Hey....I did NOT say it!..I just quoted a long time Hotel Mgr. who has worked for many different lines..

Read his posts & quibble with him not me!..

 

To get the full story from him check out this CC thread & be sure to read Post No.11, 50 & 55:

"Can someone explain the Theory of Cruise ship Tipping" http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=14792811&postcount=11

:(

Happy Spring...Betty

[Mar56]

Hey....I did NOT say it!..I just quoted a long time Hotel Mgr. who has worked for many different lines..

Read his posts & quibble with him not me!..

 

To get the full story from him check out this CC thread & be sure to read Post No.11, 50 & 55:

"Can someone explain the Theory of Cruise ship Tipping" http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=14792811&postcount=11

:(

Happy Spring...Betty

 

 

Oh my comment was definitely meant about the original qoute by the hotel manager not you. Sorry i should have been clearer. I just didnt think it was an appropriate explanation for the service charges. FWIW i have no,problem with the service charges.

[styles27]

Oh my comment was definitely meant about the original qoute by the hotel manager not you. Sorry i should have been clearer. I just didnt think it was an appropriate explanation for the service charges. FWIW i have no,problem with the service charges.

 

It definitely isn't an appropriate explanation but an expected one from someone who worked in the business, I guess.

 

His explanations really don't hold much merit with me since there are cruiselines out there that include everything in the price of the cruise. Proves it can be done.

 

Yes, the price would be higher upfront, however when you take into consideration what we spend once our shipboard account is settled, I think it would be comparable.

 

It certainly would weed out the folks who have the service charge removed.

[agabbymama]

So you're saying that if we don't agree to this deception of governments we are ?:confused:

 

And your point is? Deception for taxes isn't unique to the cruise industry. Look at the US tax loopholes for the Buffets, Rockefellers, and Romney. Swiss or Grand Cayman bank accounts, etc.

 

All this complaining and whining about a few dollars. What difference does it make to you if it's extra or considered in the cruise fare. If your cruise cost $2000 and the Service charge is $84, just consider your cruise cost $2084.

 

My goodness, as another poster stated, "it isn't rocket science".

 

My first cruise in 1989 there was no CC board and I didn't have a clue. We arrived to the cabin and there were envelopes on the table. I was paying for my daughter and myself, so left the money in the envelope. No big deal.

 

I believe it was about 2004 that most of the lines went to the "Hotel Service Charge". NCL (2004), RCI (2004), Celebrity (2006), HAL (2007), Princess (2008) and NCL (2011) all had the automatic Hotel Service Charge. Makes it a lot easier than having to get the correct bills and carry a lot of extra cash.

 

IT IS WHAT IT IS, and all the griping and complaining isn't going to change it. Consider it lemons, and just make lemonade!

[serendipity1499]

And your point is? Deception for taxes isn't unique to the cruise industry. Look at the US tax loopholes for the Buffets, Rockefellers, and Romney. Swiss or Grand Cayman bank accounts, etc.

 

All this complaining and whining about a few dollars. What difference does it make to you if it's extra or considered in the cruise fare. If your cruise cost $2000 and the Service charge is $84, just consider your cruise cost $2084.

 

My goodness, as another poster stated, "it isn't rocket science".

 

My first cruise in 1989 there was no CC board and I didn't have a clue. We arrived to the cabin and there were envelopes on the table. I was paying for my daughter and myself, so left the money in the envelope. No big deal.

 

I believe it was about 2004 that most of the lines went to the "Hotel Service Charge". NCL (2004), RCI (2004), Celebrity (2006), HAL (2007), Princess (2008) and NCL (2011) all had the automatic Hotel Service Charge. Makes it a lot easier than having to get the correct bills and carry a lot of extra cash.

 

IT IS WHAT IT IS, and all the griping and complaining isn't going to change it. Consider it lemons, and just make lemonade!

 

TOUCHÉ agabbymama..

Agree wholeheartedly! I'm in the process of pricing out another cruise & I also include in my budget the cost of Hotel Service charge, estimated Shore excursions, extra tips for Tour guides & the wonderful HAL crew, & also decide what my allotment will be for slots..DH will only gamble once or twice & he cheats the machines ! LOL

Can't possibly figure what we will spend for cocktails, wine packages or gifts on board & port, but we have a cushion for those items..

Do we always keep to our budget NO, but it's a start..

Happy Sailing everyone....:)Betty

[Typhoon1]

When budgeting, plan on adding the Hotel Service Charge.