Tonight: Why Ships Sink?

[TLCOhio]

Lots of interesting engineering details on this show, including how the steel and rivets of the Titanic were so different from how the the ships of today are built. BUT, there is this slight, little problem that no ship is designed to be able to deal with undersea rock ripping a huge gash in the side of a modern ship. "Showboating" was their clear verdict on the presumed guilty Costa Concordia Captain.

 

And, why was the guitar player kind of "in charge" on the bridge? Strange!!??

 

There were interesting questions raised on whether modern ships are built too high/tall and/or if newer ships should have double bottoms and sides for safety.

 

Lots of good segments for how the rescues where done on a ship tragedy.

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

Did a June 7-19, 2011, Solstice cruise from Barcelona that had stops in Villefranche, ports near Pisa and Rome, Naples, Kotor, Venice and Dubrovnik. Enjoyed great weather and a wonderful trip. Dozens of wonderful visuals with key highlights, tips, comments, etc., on these postings. We are now at 73,501 views for this live/blog re-cap on our first sailing with Celebrity and much on wonderful Barcelona. Check these postings and added info at:

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1426474

[The Big Booper]

We enjoyed this documentary.

 

Intercut with the archival videos and film of the Titanic and Concordia, we saw an interview with a leading member of the Florida sue-the-cruise-industry legal profession, filmed at the Miami (?) harbor. In the background the old RCI Monarch OTS sits moored to a pier. Cruise veterans will know the Monarch's connection to the topic of this show.

[cruiseacecat]

We enjoyed this documentary.

 

Intercut with the archival videos and film of the Titanic and Concordia, we saw an interview with a leading member of the Florida sue-the-cruise-industry legal profession, filmed at the Miami (?) harbor. In the background the old RCI Monarch OTS sits moored to a pier. Cruise veterans will know the Monarch's connection to the topic of this show.

I am about to embarrass myself here. :rolleyes: What is the connection of Monarch with the topic?

 

Anne

[The Big Booper]

I am about to embarrass myself here. :rolleyes: What is the connection of Monarch with the topic?

 

Anne

 

Even though the Monarch used to make a weekly run to St. Martin out of San Juan, it had to make an unscheduled diversionary stop there, in the late 90's to offload a seriously ill passenger. This was in the days when there was no pier and the ship came in at night to be met by a small boat that took the sick man off.

 

The Captain then charted a course to the next stop which necessitated the Monarch leaving in a different direction then it usually took. The Captain and the First Mate then went to bed leaving an inexperienced 2nd Officer to guide the ship. The 2nd had only been on the Monarch a few weeks and, not being totally familiar with the ship or the harbor, banged into a large underwater obstruction which tore a large gash in the hull. The Deck Officer then quickly called the Captain back to the bridge. The Captain because of his familiarity with the harbor was able to quickly steer the badly wounded ship onto a flat reef where the ship grounded, with very little list. The Captain's quick thinking and action saved the ship and all the people on board. However all three officers were forced to resign their positions after a series of hearings. In particular, no matter how tired the Captain was, he should not have left an inexperienced officer alone on the bridge in the middle of the night, with no harbor pilot to guide the ship out to deep water.

 

There was a long thread here on CC years ago by a young couple who evacuated the ship in the middle of the night and their struggles to find a place to sleep on the island in the middle of the night. 2,700 pax plus crew descending on sleepy Phillipsburg.

[Fixit2010]

From the documentary I conclude these are some pretty big issues that need to be addressed.

 

1 Ships are getting too big and having 6000+ people on board is way too many.

 

2 If a sinking ship is tilting more than 20 degrees you lose half your life boat capacity. Why not have 2 tiers of life boats on each side, say some forward and aft on 2 decks instead of on one deck?

 

3 hulls are not double lined high enough. It would be pretty easy to raise this up to the water line.

 

4 Not enough experience in the problems of fighting fires. Training should be more involved and attention to risks.

 

5 The ship is split in to 5 compartments, 3 of which can flood. Why not split those 5 in half again, thus reducing flood-able space?

 

6 Lay down a non slip rubber mat near to the life boats, that way captains can't accidentally fall in to one from his seat on the bridge.

[TLCOhio]

6 Lay down a non slip rubber mat near to the life boats, that way captains can't accidentally fall in to one from his seat on the bridge.

 

You had a very interesting and thoughtful list on your first five item. Would be interest in seeing a cost versus benefit analysis for each of these items, practical benefits, etc. Not sure on the sixth item you listed.

 

Maybe Captains should be married and required to have their wives traveling with them. That would have solved and/or prevented part of the problem with the Costa Concordia Captain trying to impress his "female friend".

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

Did a June 7-19, 2011, Solstice cruise from Barcelona that had stops in Villefranche, ports near Pisa and Rome, Naples, Kotor, Venice and Dubrovnik. Enjoyed great weather and a wonderful trip. Dozens of wonderful visuals with key highlights, tips, comments, etc., on these postings. We are now at 73,680 views for this live/blog re-cap on our first sailing with Celebrity and much on wonderful Barcelona. Check these postings and added info at:

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1426474

[Fixit2010]

It was a very interesting documentary.

Ok you got me the first 5 were serious ideas that i think do need looking at, though I don't like to be too serious and put in a light hearted idea also. At least in future incidents, that excuse couldn't be made.

[TLCOhio]

It was a very interesting documentary. Ok you got me the first 5 were serious ideas that i think do need looking at, though I don't like to be too serious and put in a light hearted idea also. At least in future incidents, that excuse couldn't be made.

 

Glad to know I was guessing right on your five serious items versus the one "fun" item. Hate to call anything on the Concordia to be "fun". It wasn't. Very sad. Well done TV show with the various engineering aspects tied in.

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

Did a June 7-19, 2011, Solstice cruise from Barcelona that had stops in Villefranche, ports near Pisa and Rome, Naples, Kotor, Venice and Dubrovnik. Enjoyed great weather and a wonderful trip. Dozens of wonderful visuals with key highlights, tips, comments, etc., on these postings. We are now at 73,680 views for this live/blog re-cap on our first sailing with Celebrity and much on wonderful Barcelona. Check these postings and added info at:

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1426474

[lori450]

Thanks for the link to the streaming video. I was disappointed in the show. I felt it was old hat. The rivets in the Titanic were eventually proven to be plenty strong and the Titanic itself was built well. It was the conditions of the night (no moon and no waves) that made it impossible to see the berg until too late. They didn't mention that Capt Smith never ordered abandon ship (like Schettino). I was hoping for a more technical show given that it was NOVA, but I am probably just spoiled.

 

I liked the rubber mat joke!

[MartinsCruise]

According to my son who is a pilot, about 99% of the time the crash is attributed to pilot error. My guess would be it would run about the same on ships.

 

Speaking as a pilot myself, you know what makes a plane fly.....airspeed, lift and money.

 

Doug

[cruiseacecat]

The Big Booper,

 

Thanks so much for answering. I have no idea how I could have missed that.

 

Anne

[boogs]

Thanks for the link to the streaming video. I was disappointed in the show. I felt it was old hat. The rivets in the Titanic were eventually proven to be plenty strong and the Titanic itself was built well. It was the conditions of the night (no moon and no waves) that made it impossible to see the berg until too late. They didn't mention that Capt Smith never ordered abandon ship (like Schettino). I was hoping for a more technical show given that it was NOVA, but I am probably just spoiled.

 

I had a similar take on the show. It was almost as if it had been produced for a tabloid type show, not NOVA. The most interesting information was that underwater view of the long, narrow strip of hull the rock outcropping apparently peeled right off the ship. The way it was curled up and bunched together, it reminded me of taffy candy being mixed. I had never heard about this before, nor seen any photos.

[shipshape sam]

Lots of interesting engineering details on this show, including how the steel and rivets of the Titanic were so different from how the the ships of today are built. BUT, there is this slight, little problem that no ship is designed to be able to deal with undersea rock ripping a huge gash in the side of a modern ship. "Showboating" was their clear verdict on the presumed guilty Costa Concordia Captain.

 

And, why was the guitar player kind of "in charge" on the bridge? Strange!!??

 

There were interesting questions raised on whether modern ships are built too high/tall and/or if newer ships should have double bottoms and sides for safety.

 

Lots of good segments for how the rescues where done on a ship tragedy.

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

Did a June 7-19, 2011, Solstice cruise from Barcelona that had stops in Villefranche, ports near Pisa and Rome, Naples, Kotor, Venice and Dubrovnik. Enjoyed great weather and a wonderful trip. Dozens of wonderful visuals with key highlights, tips, comments, etc., on these postings. We are now at 73,501 views for this live/blog re-cap on our first sailing with Celebrity and much on wonderful Barcelona. Check these postings and added info at:

www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1426474

 

Thought the show overall was good.

 

The guitar player was in charge as you refer to his efforts on the bridge/elsewhere because most of the officers had abandon ship (per the guitar player) The Captain was somewhere under (I think the guitar player said a stairwell) So, with no one on the 'bridge' by default you could say he was in charge. At least that is how I understood it from the program. Then, again if true what he related, the guitar player helped everyone else off the ship and he and his wife were the last of the ship passengers to be air evacuated off the sinking ship. I would assume even the Captain got off before the guitar player. My kind of guitar player vs officers of that ship! :)

[shipshape sam]

Thanks for the link to the streaming video. I was disappointed in the show. I felt it was old hat. The rivets in the Titanic were eventually proven to be plenty strong and the Titanic itself was built well. It was the conditions of the night (no moon and no waves) that made it impossible to see the berg until too late. They didn't mention that Capt Smith never ordered abandon ship (like Schettino). I was hoping for a more technical show given that it was NOVA, but I am probably just spoiled.

 

I liked the rubber mat joke!

 

Also, it was indicated that Titanic did not slow it's speed down for the conditions you mention, thus not enough time to avert the sighted iceberg. I think the reason was the Captain did not want to get behind schedule.

[lori450]

I had a similar take on the show. It was almost as if it had been produced for a tabloid type show, not NOVA. The most interesting information was that underwater view of the long, narrow strip of hull the rock outcropping apparently peeled right off the ship. The way it was curled up and bunched together, it reminded me of taffy candy being mixed. I had never heard about this before, nor seen any photos.

 

I agree!

[lori450]

Also, it was indicated that Titanic did not slow it's speed down for the conditions you mention, thus not enough time to avert the sighted iceberg. I think the reason was the Captain did not want to get behind schedule.

 

It was common practice for captains not to slow down until they actually sighted icebergs. (At least this is what I have read and seen multiple times).

[lori450]

From what I've read and seen, it was no one's fault that the Titanic hit an iceberg and sank. The only real issue was that Captain Smith did not declare an abandon ship and did not oversee the lifeboats. As mentioned on the show many of the life boats were sent out half full when they could have been sent out overfilled due to the calm conditions that night.

 

Here we are a 100 years later and we are still trying to figure out how to save those people. I still can't believe that they couldn't be saved.

[miched]

I didnt watch it and probably won't. I am not interested in designing a ship or am I capable of doing anything to keep the ship from sinking.

 

A better documentary would be to show how to survive if the ship is sinking. How to navigate thru the ship when it is listing, what areas to avoid, what decks are the best to be on or go to. How to get bewteen decks when the stairs are at a 45 degees angle, or you can't walk on the floor because it is too slanted. Would you be able to get into your cabin to get your life jacket as the door lock may not operate becasue the computer is down? If the ship is tilted too much how would you be able to walk into the cabin to get a life jacket?

 

Just showing how to put on a life jacket or showing where your muster station is doesn't address the real problems that arise and the best way to increase your chance of survival.

[shipshape sam]

From what I've read and seen, it was no one's fault that the Titanic hit an iceberg and sank. The only real issue was that Captain Smith did not declare an abandon ship and did not oversee the lifeboats. As mentioned on the show many of the life boats were sent out half full when they could have been sent out overfilled due to the calm conditions that night.

 

Here we are a 100 years later and we are still trying to figure out how to save those people. I still can't believe that they couldn't be saved.

 

 

One of the most glaring issues for me is that on the Concordia (this was not mentioned on the show) that with the Concordia listing 20 degrees, the lifeboats could not on the upper side be let down very easy. To me, there are a LOT of things engineers could do to think through some of these issues and have solutions for them and build them into future designs and even retro fit current ships with some issues hopefully learned from Concordia.

 

Also, I just recently watched Jim Cameron do a show about Titanic. Per the show, it was stated that the ship never listed (or not enough to be a concern). They did give a possible explantation of the ship's crew balancing "something" thinking the ship would not be sinking. I thought this was a very interesting fact, if true.

[shipshape sam]

I didnt watch it and probably won't. I am not interested in designing a ship or am I capable of doing anything to keep the ship from sinking.

 

A better documentary would be to show how to survive if the ship is sinking. How to navigate thru the ship when it is listing, what areas to avoid, what decks are the best to be on or go to. How to get bewteen decks when the stairs are at a 45 degees angle, or you can't walk on the floor because it is too slanted. Would you be able to get into your cabin to get your life jacket as the door lock may not operate becasue the computer is down? If the ship is tilted too much how would you be able to walk into the cabin to get a life jacket?

 

Just showing how to put on a life jacket or showing where your muster station is doesn't address the real problems that arise and the best way to increase your chance of survival.

 

Excellent points/questions!