Do staff keep 100% of prepaid gratuities?

[sail7seas]

 

 

 

 

We have never paid anything like that for a week.

 

 

Here is a link to that thread.

 

At $57 per diem, the cost of a seven night cruise is $399. Ridiculous IMO

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1637449

Edited May 21, 2012 by sail7seas

[Opinions]

Were these ships subject to U.S. labor laws, the price of the cruise would be out of the reach of a great many who now cruise. It would go back to the days of cruising was for the wealthy only.

 

There's a very good reason the ships (with a scant exception) are all registered out of the U.S.

 

Many who now cruise enjoyed U.S. wages and pensions...They could well afford to pay a little more...Why should these employees subsidize our vacations...Heaven forbid the cruiselines make a little less profit...They are certainly saving on paying taxes.

[sail7seas]

DH and I pay a handsome sum as we choose to sail in suites. We pay what they bill. We see the price THEY set and if we agree to it, we book the cruise. If we do not think that cruise is worth that amount of money to us, we don't book it.

 

Isn't that what everyone does? Don't we all decide how much money any given product we are buying is worth to us? In most situations, the seller sets the price; not the buyer.

 

As to lower profit --- How much profit can there be for a seven day cruise sold for $57 Per Day? What kind of a cruise can they provide when some of the cabins are priced that low?

 

 

Edited May 21, 2012 by sail7seas

[Opinions]

As to lower profit --- How much profit can there be for a seven day cruise sold for $57 Per Day?

 

Over the last 5 years the Carnival Corporation (owners of HAL) paid corporate taxes (Fed, Local, State, Foreign) at a rate of 1.1% on 11.3 billion of profit...I think they are doing well.

[sail7seas]

If your profit figures are correct, I am happy to hear it.

We love sailing HAL ships and I'm happy Carnival Corporation is thriving as we can think that might promise we'll have these blue hulled beautiful ships to sail for years to come.

 

I'm happy to hear of any solvent, thriving coproration in today's world economy.

They must be doing something very right. :)

They are providing for a great many jobs with all the materials and supplies, food, cleaning products, textiles, furniture, art, flowers etc etc etc purchased for all their ships throughout all their brands. That's a lot of folks bringing home a pay check at the end of the week/month and I will always call that a 'good thing'.

 

Edited May 21, 2012 by sail7seas

[arewethereyet]

If your profit figures are correct, I am happy to hear it.

We love sailing HAL ships and I'm happy Carnival Corporation is thriving as we can think that might promise we'll have these blue hulled beautiful ships to sail for years to come.

 

I'm happy to hear of any solvent, thriving coproration in today's world economy.

They must be doing something very right. :)

They are providing for a great many jobs with all the materials and supplies, food, cleaning products, textiles, furniture, art, flowers etc etc etc purchased for all their ships throughout all their brands. That's a lot of folks bringing home a pay check at the end of the week/month and I will always call that a 'good thing'.

 

Well put.

[Opinions]

They must be doing something very right. :)

.

 

 

Yes, I wish I could get my taxes down to 1.1%...They are very adept at using loopholes in our tax laws...But it's obvious I am in the minority here in thinking they should pay their fair share.

[sail7seas]

I have no clue what percentage tax Carnival Corporation pays.

They didn't write the convoluted, gazillion page tax code. Their responsibility is to follow the law. I have no reason to think they do not do that.

 

Edited May 22, 2012 by sail7seas

[Salacia]

Yes, I wish I could get my taxes down to 1.1%...They are very adept at using loopholes in our tax laws...But it's obvious I am in the minority here in thinking they should pay their fair share.

 

Include me in that minority.

[sail7seas]

Me,too.

 

I'd love if we only paid 1.1 %. I don't know who, if anyone, does pay that low rate.

 

[Salacia]

We, in the States and Canada, are accustomed to tipping. It is a part of our way of life and we all choose how much and when to tip. It will always be the guest/customer who pays the salaries of the staff. It will either be built into the price or added on 'extra'.

 

 

With all due respect, as we know - it is not the custom in many countries to give gratuties. Ergo, those who do tip (and do not remove the auto charge) compensate for those passengers who for whatever reason, object and reject the concept of gratuities. On some voyages, many passengers are from parts of the world where tipping is not a custom: what happens to the crew when their "salary" is not supplemented by gratuties?

 

We might think we are "paying the salaries of the staff" and the salary of the staff is by all accounts very low, supplemented by gratuities. But if other passengers don't anti-up (and I'm sure you know many remove the auto-charge)...what is the compensation (salary and benefits) for the staff? Of course that is a rethorical question since crew members, according to what I have read, will be fired if found to reveal the conditions of their employment.

 

Forgive me, I understand that to many such questions are upsetting. But I'm finding that I take no joy in a vacation where workers are not adequately compensated for their work - and that is why I have an interest in what crew members are paid, and what happens with the gratuities we offer in appreciation for the hard work of behind the scene crew members we never even get to thank pesonally.

Edited May 22, 2012 by Salacia

[Salacia]

Currently the cruise fare pays part of the wages and the HSC pays another part. It seems to be how it works in the industry.

 

If the abolished the HSC then fares will have to be increased to pay the same wages, so passengers will still be paying for the wages - just in a different way.

 

Hi Boytjie, yes I agree, that does seem to be how it works but it is not industry wide. For example some CCL ships state that "Tipping is neither required nor expected — service simply to delight you" (copied from the Seabourn website).

And then there is this report about another CCL cruise line (P&O) http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/apr/29/cruise-firm-performance-bonuses-tips?newsfeed=true

 

So clearly, practices do vary amongst CCL ships. But I don't doubt you experience of "industry wide" as my experience is limited to CCL ships. And way too may voyages on the SI Ferry ;):) Cheers, -S.

[peaches from georgia]

Hi Boytjie, yes I agree, that does seem to be how it works but it is not industry wide. For example some CCL ships state that "Tipping is neither required nor expected — service simply to delight you" (copied from the Seabourn website).

Tips are included and prepaid in the cruise fare on Seabourn, so in reality pax are paying part of crew wages. 'Tipping is neither required nor expected' refers to tipping on board over and above what you have already paid in your fare. This happily eliminates all confusion and discussion about what happens if you refuse to pay the HSC chraged on board like you read about on the HAL board and want to tip only certain crew members in cash, what % each crew member gets from the HSC, who can keep what or have to pool cash tips, etc. You never hear tips mentioned on board or on the Seabourn CC board. It's a non-issue and so much easier and civilized.

 

Some pax may slip their cabin steward or a bartender a cash tip, but if so it is private and not a subject of discussion among pax. If this is done of course that crew member is free to keep what is given, but I never heard a pax ever mention tipping extra because tipping just isn't an issue. There is a 'Crew Fund' that a lot of pax do contribute to that goes for parties and treats for the entire crew, but it is very low key and not pushed by the cruiseline. I think there was a place to put in contributions on the front desk, but that was it.

[hrhdhd]

Forgive me, I understand that to many such questions are upsetting. But I'm finding that I take no joy in a vacation where workers are not adequately compensated for their work - and that is why I have an interest in what crew members are paid, and what happens with the gratuities we offer in appreciation for the hard work of behind the scene crew members we never even get to thank pesonally.

 

I don't think your questions are upsetting, but you're not going to find definitive answers because the whole compensation system is probably not intended to be entirely clear to the passengers. Cruise or don't cruise, but the contract between the cruiseline and its employees is really none of your concern.

 

And I think most workers, on a cruise ship or not, feel they are not adequately compensated for their work. I know I'm not. ;)

[Downwind]

When this additional "tips" item first appeared on HAL's ship's billing statement it was $10/day PP and it was called "gratuity". Now it is $12/day and it's called "hotel service charge". So, what is it really?

It can be seen as a fare increase without the cruise line increasing it's advertised prices. If it is all going to the crew then wouldn't it be more honest to raise the fare by $12/day PP and advertise the fare as being inclusive of gratuity.

[sail7seas]

By 'including' it in the fare, their prices would look less competitive and TA's would be seeking commission on it.

 

In the end, it would cost us, the cruiser, more but there would not be more going to the crew. If I thought the crew would get more money, we'd happily pay that bit more. As it is, we always tip over and above anyway.

 

If anyone feels the crew is not getting enough then by all means, join so many of us who tip 'over and above'. The crew is always appreciative.

 

We never once have not been nicely thanked when we have envelopes for our stewards/bartenders etc at the end of each cruise.

 

 

 

Edited May 22, 2012 by sail7seas

[Salacia]

Tips are included and prepaid in the cruise fare on Seabourn, so in reality pax are paying part of crew wages. 'Tipping is neither required nor expected' refers to tipping on board over and above what you have already paid in your fare. This happily eliminates all confusion and discussion about what happens if you refuse to pay the HSC chraged on board like you read about on the HAL board and want to tip only certain crew members in cash, what % each crew member gets from the HSC, who can keep what or have to pool cash tips, etc. You never hear tips mentioned on board or on the Seabourn CC board. It's a non-issue and so much easier and civilized.

 

Some pax may slip their cabin steward or a bartender a cash tip, but if so it is private and not a subject of discussion among pax. If this is done of course that crew member is free to keep what is given, but I never heard a pax ever mention tipping extra because tipping just isn't an issue. There is a 'Crew Fund' that a lot of pax do contribute to that goes for parties and treats for the entire crew, but it is very low key and not pushed by the cruiseline. I think there was a place to put in contributions on the front desk, but that was it.

 

Hi Peaches from Georgia. I agree, that is a much easier, civilized way of doing things.:) Certainly much better than what I read on a previous thread about the new policy on P&O :eek:(discussed here http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1625750&highlight=p+o

Regards, -S.

[Typhoon1]

What a shame. These are the hardest working people on the ship.

[sail7seas]

Yes, they do work extremely hard but lets not diminsh the work of other officers/crew/staff.

 

Watching those sailors out in the hot sun, dangling out of buckets or platforms high in the air, painting the ship sure do work hard. The fellows maintaining the tenders, hanging out in the air working on them, the bartenders when their bars are crowded sure are doing their best to crank out the drinks, the Chefs feeding all of us so many times a day........

 

And let's not forget the Captain. I wonder how much sleep he actually gets on a three month contract. My guess is he gets some naps but never a full night's sleep.

 

All the crew/officers/staff are hard working or they don't keep their jobs.

[Gail & Marty sailing away]

On our just-completed Veendam cruise, Carlos the CD read a statement from HAL during the disembarkation briefing from HAL headquarters that specifically stated 100% of pre-paid gratuities goes to the staff they are intended for, and any money directly paid to crew by passengers may be kept by them, not pooled and distributed.

 

It was intended to clear up any questions anyone might have.

I think you are correct ..

[peaches from georgia]

By 'including' it in the fare, their prices would look less competitive and TA's would be seeking commission on it.

 

In the end, it would cost us, the cruiser, more but there would not be more going to the crew. If I thought the crew would get more money, we'd happily pay that bit more. As it is, we always tip over and above anyway.

 

If anyone feels the crew is not getting enough then by all means, join so many of us who tip 'over and above'. The crew is always appreciative.

 

We never once have not been nicely thanked when we have envelopes for our stewards/bartenders etc at the end of each cruise.

 

 

If all cruiselines included tips the difference in fares between Cruiseline A and Cruiseline B would remain the same so competitiveness wouldn't change. And crew should receive more in tips by eliminating the ability for cheapskates to remove HSC/Gratuities from their account. All pax would be tipping the crew so a bigger pot divided. For those who would never think of removing the HSC nothing would change, it would just be prepaid.

[sail7seas]

If all cruiselines included tips the difference in fares between Cruiseline A and Cruiseline B would remain the same so competitiveness wouldn't change. And crew should receive more in tips by eliminating the ability for cheapskates to remove HSC/Gratuities from their account. All pax would be tipping the crew so a bigger pot divided. For those who would never think of removing the HSC nothing would change, it would just be prepaid.

 

 

In a perfect world, sure......... :rolleyes:

 

But ALL cruise lines do not and are not likely to do that.

[innlady1]

If all cruiselines included tips the difference in fares between Cruiseline A and Cruiseline B would remain the same so competitiveness wouldn't change. And crew should receive more in tips by eliminating the ability for cheapskates to remove HSC/Gratuities from their account. All pax would be tipping the crew so a bigger pot divided. For those who would never think of removing the HSC nothing would change, it would just be prepaid.

 

 

Perhaps it's a mistake to allow people to remove the service charge :confused: Personally, I think that's what HAL should do.

[sail7seas]

I can see both sides of the argument and understand the conundrum.....

 

It's a hard call.

 

If I pass by the office and I hear the 'cheapskates' asking to have HSC removed, I try to understand why someone would do that and I have a hard time 'being kind' in my thinking. If the service is so lacking, speak up and get it made better. If it's a question of budget, they knew in advance this cost was expected to me acknowledged and satisfied. If they can't afford the trip, save up a little longer before taking that vacation.

 

I know we don't all think in the same way and that is why I say I try to be kind in my thinking but there are almost no acceptible reasons, IMO, for 'stiffing the staff'.

 

There's no nice way to say it. :o

Edited May 22, 2012 by sail7seas

[arewethereyet]

If all cruiselines included tips the difference in fares between Cruiseline A and Cruiseline B would remain the same so competitiveness wouldn't change. And crew should receive more in tips by eliminating the ability for cheapskates to remove HSC/Gratuities from their account. All pax would be tipping the crew so a bigger pot divided. For those who would never think of removing the HSC nothing would change, it would just be prepaid.

Cruise lines aren't only in competition with each other. They are also competing with every other vacation option consumers have. Raising the fares to include tips will cause X number of vacationers to choose a non-cruise option. I believe that's why the cruise lines do it the way they do. It is a way of hiding the true cost of the cruise.