Boss Being Difficult

[John1928]

In nearly all states, pre-approved time off can cancelled by the employer for any reason without compensation unless covered in a binding contract agreement. I had an employee quit without notice.another employee doing the same job was granted a 2 week vacation starting the next week . I rescinded the request for vacation and the employee was very upset. She went anyway against my orders. She was terminated for abandoning her job and was later denied unemployment.

 

First, this doesn't sound like a very good place to work. Companies that try to scoot by on the bare minimum required by law on something like this are likely to be no more upstanding in other aspects of their operations. Sadly, this type of organizational behavior is often (usually?) self-defeating causing more disruption and lost productivity than it gains.

 

Ultimately the single most important factor in any employment situation is who needs whom more... If you're good at what you do, you regularly develop your skills, and continuously cultivate professional contacts, then you have the power to tell a manager giving you this type of ultimatum to take a leap. Of course, you probably won't need to in that situation as a smart manager is going to know this ahead of time and will be working with you to come to some equitable arrangement.

 

edit: Oh, that's coming from the perspective of the manager of a large department of professional workers spread across multiple locations. I would never try that approach with any of my staff unless I was encouraging them to leave. If my manager took that approach I probably would agree to work without compensation if doing otherwise would adversely impact my peers or customers I cared about, but I'd also be gone two weeks later...

[LuckyZ]

First, this doesn't sound like a very good place to work. Companies that try to scoot by on the bare minimum required by law on something like this are likely to be no more upstanding in other aspects of their operations. Sadly, this type of organizational behavior is often (usually?) self-defeating causing more disruption and lost productivity than it gains.

 

Ultimately the single most important factor in any employment situation is who needs whom more... If you're good at what you do, you regularly develop your skills, and continuously cultivate professional contacts, then you have the power to tell a manager giving you this type of ultimatum to take a leap. Of course, you probably won't need to in that situation as a smart manager is going to know this ahead of time and will be working with you to come to some equitable arrangement.

 

Don't be naive. No employee has or should have that kind of power to do whatever they want to do. Anyone can be replaced.

I'm not saying the employer shouldn't do it without a valid need or reason. But if there is a need, thems the breaks.

[spunkyhungry]

In nearly all states, pre-approved time off can cancelled by the employer for any reason without compensation unless covered in a binding contract agreement. I had an employee quit without notice.another employee doing the same job was granted a 2 week vacation starting the next week . I rescinded the request for vacation and the employee was very upset. She went anyway against my orders. She was terminated for abandoning her job and was later denied unemployment.

 

Wow, you were really mean. If the other employee didn't go on her vacation she would have lost a ton of money. And what if the vacation was a honeymoon, family reunion, or something else important? Even if it was just a regular vacation, that would be incredibly disappointing and unfair. Surely you could have made other arrangements. You don't even sound sorry about it. Fortunately I've always had nicer bosses.

[Havingfun2010]

Don't be naive. No employee has or should have that kind of power to do whatever they want to do. Anyone can be replaced.

I'm not saying the employer shouldn't do it without a valid need or reason. But if there is a need, thems the breaks.

 

So if it is small company, with few employeess, the employee still goes on vacation, and is fired. What happens? The employer is still without a person for the week, plus they have to go through the expense of finding a replacement, training, and additional disruption to the business. So, then it becomes a power struggle, since it becomes obvious that the employee really wasn't needn't after all? That is, if the boss/owner ran a smart business, they would recognize this.

 

So if a big company - really no real excuse, since one person would not be noticed for a week.

 

There is no good business practice to use and/or abuse your employees. It would not only affect the one employee, but cut morale for the rest, and the word will get out about the type of business it is. Nothing good could possibly come out of it.

[Chigirlcruzin]

The boss isn't being difficult. At my company, all new hires cannot take any time off for the first 6 months of employment. If you miss a day, you're terminated.

 

Wow, I'm glad I haven't worked where you work. This isn't the case for "any" company. I've never had an issue taking scheduled vacation when changing jobs.

[John1928]

Don't be naive. No employee has or should have that kind of power to do whatever they want to do. Anyone can be replaced.

I'm not saying the employer shouldn't do it without a valid need or reason. But if there is a need, thems the breaks.

 

No, that's not naive at all, it's simply pragmatic. I do agree with you to an extent, and that was my point about the balance of power since the "anyone can be replaced" cuts both ways and "any job can be replaced" as well. The relative value of the employee (unique skills, experience, comparable available labor, etc.) and job (pay, benefits, security, etc.), and barriers to change for both are what determines who has the greater leverage.

 

Consider two extremes. The picture looks one way if there is 10% unemployment, and the employee is a 55 year old high school graduate, working at one of two companies in a small town with 3 kids in school and strong ties to his/her extended family and elderly parents who also live there. It may look much different with 4% unemployment to a 30 year old childless professional who can relocate domestically or internationally on one month's notice, who has skills where demand significantly outstrips supply, and multiple return engagement offers sitting in the inbox...

 

I've never had occasion to walk out and leave a company high and dry, and I wouldn't ever do so anywhere I was treated as a professional (and I have personally been treated well when I needed to reschedule vacations, other commitments, and even a kidney donation, to deal with work problems, product launches, acquisitions, etc.). However, I have no qualms about reflecting the respect and professionalism (or lack thereof) shown by an organization back on to it. Thems the breaks ;)

[jlk806]

.

 

Interesting fact: Boss spelled backward is a double SOB

 

Haha not me! Im a boss and taking my 5 employees on a Carnival Cruise this summer as our retreat. I own a dance studio and am friends with my 5 employees though. I am a good boss!

[klfrodo]

In nearly all states, pre-approved time off can cancelled by the employer for any reason without compensation unless covered in a binding contract agreement. I had an employee quit without notice.another employee doing the same job was granted a 2 week vacation starting the next week . I rescinded the request for vacation and the employee was very upset. She went anyway against my orders. She was terminated for abandoning her job and was later denied unemployment.

 

I can only say WOW.

Obviously a small company or business. This style of leadership wouldn't be tolerated in a major corporation.

Please share the name of your business so I know who to do business with in the future.

[GRAMMYTAN]

Haha not me! Im a boss and taking my 5 employees on a Carnival Cruise this summer as our retreat. I own a dance studio and am friends with my 5 employees though. I am a good boss!

 

Can I come to work for you?:D

[LKYGSR]

In nearly all states, pre-approved time off can cancelled by the employer for any reason without compensation unless covered in a binding contract agreement. I had an employee quit without notice.another employee doing the same job was granted a 2 week vacation starting the next week . I rescinded the request for vacation and the employee was very upset. She went anyway against my orders. She was terminated for abandoning her job and was later denied unemployment.

 

I can only draw one conclusion, summed up in one word.

 

Dictator.

 

This is not the kind of company or boss anyone wants to work with.

 

Might wat to check which way the needle is pointing on the old moral compass there.

[kparc]

The boss isn't being difficult. At my company, all new hires cannot take any time off for the first 6 months of employment. If you miss a day, you're terminated.

 

 

I guess it depends on the company. If you go to work for a company that has that (as stated in the quote) in their policy, you can expect no respect or tolerance from most or all of their made up policies. At my firm, new employees that state they have vacations pre-planned are given the okay to take the vacation, most haven't incurred enough leave, so they have to take it without pay, which is valid. We recently hired a young lady who is getting married later this month, wouldn't it been a kick in the teeth to tell her, "Oh, you can get married over the weekend on your own time, unless we have a project that needs completing, just postponed that honeymoon you got planned". Yeah, that is the type of company I want to work for, yes sirree.:D

[DevCruise]

Consider two extremes. The picture looks one way if there is 10% unemployment, and the employee is a 55 year old high school graduate, working at one of two companies in a small town with 3 kids in school and strong ties to his/her extended family and elderly parents who also live there. It may look much different with 4% unemployment to a 30 year old childless professional who can relocate domestically or internationally on one month's notice, who has skills where demand significantly outstrips supply, and multiple return engagement offers sitting in the inbox...

 

Also, in these days where it's common for a spouse to be working, if you only need one income to carry the household expenses, it's really easy for one spouse to walk out when they're not being treated properly.

[awhcruiser]

:eek:

 

 

In nearly all states, pre-approved time off can cancelled by the employer for any reason without compensation unless covered in a binding contract agreement. I had an employee quit without notice.another employee doing the same job was granted a 2 week vacation starting the next week . I rescinded the request for vacation and the employee was very upset. She went anyway against my orders. She was terminated for abandoning her job and was later denied unemployment.

[swedish weave]

The company I worked for had a book of rules that we all agreed to when hired. Violations of the rules were treated with discipline.

 

In the situation described by Sutter, that would be considered insubordination and subjected the employee to immediate dismissal. Refusing to come to work when called would be another rule that would be handled in the same manner.

 

Not cold nor cruel. It is merely application of rules that employees agreed to when hired.

[LKYGSR]

The company I worked for had a book of rules that we all agreed to when hired. Violations of the rules were treated with discipline.

 

In the situation described by Sutter, that would be considered insubordination and subjected the employee to immediate dismissal. Refusing to come to work when called would be another rule that would be handled in the same manner.

 

Not cold nor cruel. It is merely application of rules that employees agreed to when hired.

 

True, however, in Yumma case, if they can get along without you (termination) than what was the point of saying they can't go on vacation? Either way, the person is not there...sounds more like a power play than a real need for that person to be present.

[Kato27]

no, insurance won't cover any of their circumstances unfortunately.

 

It's like getting into a car accident and then going to buy insurance.

 

Bill

 

100% correct..

[sharecruises]

Really, rather that try to play "employment lawyer" or counselor here

let's look at the OP's question

 

OP is running a group cruise...now some cruisers who booked early saver want out

 

OP needs to bite the bullet and tell the "drop outs" to do what they want, contact Carnival, see what happens, talk to the travel agent. Looks to me the bottom line is that the drop outs are going to lose $50 each due to ES.

 

That's the bottom line. As far as their tale of woe....we don't know all the details and probably the OP doesn't either. Plus some people will say or try anything to make things work out the way they want.

 

When you run a group cruise you have to figure that some people won't follow through. Things happen, things change. That is why it is NOT a good idea to encourage a group to book Early Saver unless you are "certain" that they won't need to back out

 

Nothing of course is certain, but if a person is an experienced cruiser and has pretty good health and stable life then they might be ok with it.

 

I have a friend whose mom is very elderly, in nursing home...he is not a good candidate for early saver. I have a friend who has an :iffy: boss/work situation and financial position. She is not a good candidate for early saver.

 

Another friend is on early retirement, financially stable, pretty good heath,

has grown kids who seem to be stable , working, etc...no grandkids yet..

so he does book early saver

 

It's that simple. You have to let them know the pitfalls of early saver

 

For OP : at this point there is not much you can do, let the drop outs do what they can ...good luck :) hth