HANDICAPPED or NOT !!!!!!

[ElCruiso]

IMHO someone renting an electric cart and having it delivered to the ship for them to ride around on because they are 400lbs or more, is not Handicapped, it

is called lack of self indulgence. Someone permanantly Wheelcahair bound is truly Handicapped. Too many people show up at Embarkation, walk up and immediatly spot a ship's wheelchair and jump in it and have their traveling companion take them over to where the real handicapped are and wait to be helped with early boarding. Ship's wheelchairs should not even be available for passengers except in Emergencies or when Medically necessary. All Cruise Lines state that passengers needing Wheelchairs should bring their own , as the ship's are for Emergencies. Those truly Handicapped DO bring their own Wheelchairs.

:eek: Those who book Handicapped rooms because they are larger , even though they are not handicapped are the same people who save deck chairs and theatre seats, and cut in lines as well as probably turn their kids loose the day they came on board.:cool:

[Queenie2]

There are a lot of people who can walk a few steps, but just can't do any distance or even stand for lond periods of time. The ship wheelchairs are there for embarkation and disembarkation but passengers may not take them on shore excursions or have exclusive use of them during the cruise. They are like airport wheelchairs. I know a lot of people who just could not cruise at all if they didn't have this service at embarkation.

 

I don't think it's an issue of *why* somebody is disabled (specific diagnosis), but if they need a scooter and want it delivered to their cabin, and they are going to pay for it, I don't see the problem. I don't think anybody would order a scooter just for fun -- they order it because they need it.

 

There are a lot of disabitliies out there. No, I don't think somebody should get an accessible room because they have a hangnail, but if you use a full size scooter you need one because most won't fit through the doors of standard cabins.

 

Again they are many disabilities. Personally I don't care who stands or wheels in the line for advance boarding -- if they feel they can't stand for a long period of time or they need to rest, then I'm happy to let them board first.

 

Candy

[muskrat897]

First, let me say that I am wheelchair-bound. I used to express frustration in seeing people park in handicapped spots that are not obviously disabled. Then, my wife, an R.N., reminded me that these people may have serious heart conditions, lung problems, MS or a host of other diseases. I have now learned to be more tolerant.:)

[Oceanwench]

First, let me say that I am wheelchair-bound. I used to express frustration in seeing people park in handicapped spots that are not obviously disabled. Then, my wife, an R.N., reminded me that these people may have serious heart conditions, lung problems, MS or a host of other diseases. I have now learned to be more tolerant.:)

 

Thank your wife for me! :)

 

On another board, an AB person wrote how angry he gets at people who park in HC spots and don't appear to be HC. He expressed a desire to damage their vehicles!

 

I wrote an explanation of how there are invisible disabilities [MS being one] and I begged for tolerance and understanding. Boy, did I get flamed! Of course the flamers were AB people who didn't understand!

 

Here is one example of how the parking issue may be misunderstood.

At Christmas time, DH and I do a lot of mall shopping. We park in an HC spot -- we have a van with a side-ramp, and he is in a powerchair.

We go into the mall and buy a number of gifts -- too much for me to carry, and he cannot help as MS has left him very weak on one side. He needs his right hand to steer his chair.

 

So I take the bundles and run out to the van to put them in the trunk.

And yes, often I get some nasty stares!

After all, here is an "obvious" AB person who has scored an HC space at the mall!

This is just one example of how things can be misinterpreted.

 

Before DH was in a chair -- 6 short years ago -- he still had an HC tag b/c of the fatigue and weakness factors of MS. Some days he'd be OK, get into a store, then suffer a spell of weakness. I am sure people wondered about that, too -- an "obvious" AB person parking in an HC spot.

 

As far as a 400-lb person using a scooter ... well, I would guess that a person of that size does have mobility problems, breathing problems, etc.

I know when we're at Disney World we see a lot of obese people using scooters to get around.

[PiperMcB]

Also, a lot of disabled people gain weight because of medications, lack of exercise, etc. I have lupus, NF, type 1, mitral valve defects, and major spine problems. I have gained weight. (I don't weigh 400 lbs--but more than I used to)

 

I can also walk for short distances--often use a crutch, but not all the times. I have my own wc--but not power because I cannot afford a vehicle that is equipped to handle that. I cannot make it up the ramp to the ship....it is steep and long. I cannot stand for long periods without severe pain. I usually do not go on shore tours because I cannot handle sun. Do I rent a scooter? YES! It makes my getting around on the ship easier on days when I need it and often I don't need it everyday -- but when I do--it is wonderful.

 

Just as you cannot judge a book by its cover, you cannot judge whether a person is AB or not by appearances.

[Queenie2]

I think it is also a quality of life issue for many people. For example my mother-in-law uses the scooters they provide in stores and wheelchairs at airports and for boarding cruise ships. She is not overweight, in fact she could better be described as frail -- she just can't do distances.

 

So for example, she could probably stand and lean against the grocery cart to do her shopping, but that would tire her out so, that she would have to go home and sleep for the rest of the afternoon. So she uses they scooter the store provides and she can have a better day. Some days are better than others for her - she has COPD.

 

She has not purchased a scooter because of transportation issues, and she can only use a manual wc if somebody else pushes it. So she is glad to have a scooter to borow or rent when needed.

 

Candy

[ORDPLATAA]

ElCruiso - your post is a bit harsh, don't you think? I mean, it seems that you are making some very quick generalizations about people without knowing all of the facts that are in play. We are cruising next month and have made booked an accessable cabin for my mother and have arranged for a scooter rental while on board. We will be bringing her collapsable wheelchair with us - just as a back up. Is she paralyzed from the waist down and unable to walk - a victim of polio or an accident? No - she has severe arthritis as a result of being an RN for close to 40 years and standing on her feet day in and day out took a toll on her joints. Can she walk with the aid of a cane? Yes - for short distances. Has she gained weight due the combination of medications? Yes - she is on numerous medications to control several ailments including type II diabetes as well as not being able to exercise due to her joint issues. I think "self indulgence" is a bit of a strong remark - don't you think?

So, before you jump to conclusions when you see "a fat lady in a scooter" on your next cruise, keep in mind there are probably lots of issues that may be in play that are probably not visible to you. Just be thankful you have your health, say a little prayer and move on and enjoy yourself.

 

Peace.

[wrp96]

I get upset when I see people without HC tags using HC spots. I don't get upset when I see people who on the surface look "normal" because they might have hidden reasons for needing it.

 

I'm not upset about people who don't normally need wheelchairs using the wheelchairs on embarkation or debarkation. I've known people that are perfectly fine most of the time but have problems with going up hills (they avoid them if possible) or standing for long periods of time. They know their limitations and don't go on shore excursions that will require those things, but they might need a wheelchair to get on the ship. It also might be a sudden illness causing them to be weak. Should we all plan for that and bring our own wheelchairs just in case?

 

I have no problem asking for an electric cart in an airport for my mom and my aunt, who normally can get around fine, but due to back and knee problems can't walk the entire length of some of the larger airport terminals.

 

As to the obese man with a scooter, obesity frequently leads to other health problems and may in fact be caused by other health problems. Many people are quick to assume that obesity is always caused by laziness when it isn't. Bottom line is you cannot tell from looking at somebody (fat or skinny) if they have problems with their lungs, their hearts, their nervous systems, etc. and need something to aid them in mobility. My grandma on the surface looked about 20 years younger than she actually was and on the surface appeared to be healthy and fit. You couldn't tell just by looking at her that she was missing a major part of her left lung due to lung cancer.

 

I think the only thing we can do is try and be as considerate of others as we can and not worry about what others are doing.

[Red-Bird]

- she has severe arthritis as a result of being an RN for close to 40 years and standing on her feet day in and day out took a toll on her joints. Can she walk with the aid of a cane? Yes - for short distances. Has she gained weight due the combination of medications? Yes - she is on numerous medications to control several ailments including type II diabetes as well as not being able to exercise due to her joint issues. I think "self indulgence" is a bit of a strong remark - don't you think?

So, before you jump to conclusions when you see "a fat lady in a scooter" on your next cruise, keep in mind there are probably lots of issues that may be in play that are probably not visible to you. Just be thankful you have your health, say a little prayer and move on and enjoy yourself.

 

Peace.

 

As someone who also has COPD I agree with what you say and while I am fortunate not have the need of a scooter or a wheelchair, I do at times require oxygen especially when flying which also can complicate one's travel plans. The cost of renting these medical necessities can be substantial.

Don

[EileenN]

Like to set you straight about obsity and self indulgence....your outburst is self indulgent. I have a tumor on my pitutary gland that causes obsity and severe joint problems..it is a disease called acromegaly. It also causes abnormal growth and you would not know it to look at me. I am glad not to be on a cruise with you and your attitude. I face life with a cheerful and positive attitude..I should not be made to feel as though I need to tattoo my disability on my forehead to keep you happy.

[Oceanwench]

Like to set you straight about obsity and self indulgence....your outburst is self indulgent. I have a tumor on my pitutary gland that causes obsity and severe joint problems..it is a disease called acromegaly. It also causes abnormal growth and you would not know it to look at me. I am glad not to be on a cruise with you and your attitude. I face life with a cheerful and positive attitude..I should not be made to feel as though I need to tattoo my disability on my forehead to keep you happy.

 

 

Exactly! People don't need to provide others with an explanation of why they are using a wheelchair or scooter.

A person's disability is his/her own business.

No one should be standing in judgment of another who "seems" AB but uses the ship's wheelchair.

[sci-tea]

Does anyone know if you can rent a wheelchair or scooter in Seattle-either at the port or somewhere else?

[DEL67]

Sci-Tea

 

Try CareVacations. They deliver right to the ship.

[Umbarger]

Oceanwench,

 

Would really like your opinion about this thread. If you could read it when you get a chance. I really respect your opinion. Thanks, Linda

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=176220&page=1&pp=25

[Queenie2]

Linda:

 

I know you asked OW for her opinion, but i'm going to stick in mine as well:)

 

It goes without saying that i truly do not believe AB folks should book an accessible cabin just for the luxury of more space (without paying a higher price). And to be perfectly candid, some folks really get off on "getting that great deal". No, I think that is horrible and the practice should be stopped whenever possible by the cruise lines.

 

However in the thread you linked to, the person stated she was " 5ft 2 inches and 350 lbs". Although I have not seen the person, I truly believe somebody of that girth could probably not fit into a standard (tube type) shower. Are those showers comfortable for most folks? no. but the majority of ABs can fit in. It ain't the greatest shower in the world, but it does the job. I may be wrong, but I don't think she will be able to fit in it.

 

Assuming that she is not able to fit in a standard shower (and I don't mean comfortably, I mean just fit in like the rest of the AB population) then yes I think she should be able to book an accessible cabin. I don't think that she should be deprived of showering for a week. And you never know, she may have other health issues.

 

I think it goes back to the fact that we shouldn't be asking people *why* they are disabled. Does it matter if you are sci or MS or just getting a little creaky? No. The point is that you need a wc or a scooter, or in this person's case a larger (accessible) shower.

 

It's a slippery slope. If you start qualifying people for cabins because of their disbaility, then what's next? Maybe the cause of theri disability? So, the disabled veteran is OK, but the person who broke his neck diving into the river is not? As I said, slippery slope, very slippery.

 

I have to also say that I have been witness to a very large woman being trapped in a standard bathroom stall on a cruise ship. She was trying to get in and got stuck. It was a really bad situation. After she was extricated, she was crying (who could blame her) and she said she didn't want to use the accessible stall (with a wide door) because previously a wc-user had yelled at her before for using it.

 

If you can't get in the door, use the ramp. It really doesn't matter *why* you have to use the ramp.

 

Anyway, that's my opinion.

 

Candy

[Oceanwench]

I was going to suggest you ask Candy her opinion. Looks like she just posted it!

 

I am going to disagree in this case. I just don't see giving accessible cabins to a person based on his/her weight as the only criteria.

Who's going to do the weigh-in?

Who is going to determine the weight limit? Is it going to be a height/weight proportion?

In other words, a 5'2 person weighing 350 can book an HC cbin, but a 6'4 person weighing the same cannot?

 

Obesity is a major problem in this country. If the HC cabins [and come on, everyone knows they're bigger!] are made available to people who are overweight, then that's one more battle those in wheelchairs have to face.

We'll be booking our rooms 5 years out.

 

Obese people can use AB rooms. My husband can't.

[Queenie2]

I do agree with a good part of what OW said. I mean, who is to determine height and weight standards? And without getting graphic, I think it also matters *where/how* the weight is distributed. I mean I don't think there is or could be a formula. That is (or could be) very problematic.

 

What I am saying is, that if somebody can't physically get in the shower (for whatever reason) then I think they should be allowed to book a cabin that has a shower they can access. No, I don't know who is going to be the gatekeeper, and indeed that part is *very tricky*. I mean, let's be honest, do we weigh and measure folks as they board?

 

Right now, I'm a big fan of what I call "self reporting". That (in Candy-talk) means that if you know enough about this stuff and you think you need an accessible room, then I think *you* are the best judge of your needs. If you think you need a wheelchair because you don't think you can make it through the airport, then don't let anyone talk you out of it. Again, *you* are the best judge of your abilities. No, that doesn't mean ABs should get an accessible room just becasue they think they need more room to roam. I'm pretty much talking medical here, and obesity is a medical issue.

 

Can this woman fit in a standard shower? Honestly OW, i have no idea, but they are pretty compact. If she can't, I don't think it's fair that she won't be able to shower for a week. Maybe the crusie lines should be more up front about the real size of their showers?

 

To be honest, most disbled people I know are more willing to give up a room to somebody else who "may be more disabled than I am" (I've heard that hundreds of times), while ABs seem ready to snap them up "cause I can". The fact that this woman is at least asking, kind of gives me a clue that maybe she really needs the access. I mean after all, she did post her height and weight. I think she was really looking for answers, not a "bigger room at the same low price".

 

It's a tough issue. Really tough.

 

For What it's worth I respect Ow's opinion too. It's just we don't happen to agree on this particular case:)

 

Candy

[Umbarger]

Thank you very much for both your opinions.

 

Candy, I respect your opinion as well. :D It was very welcome.

 

I must agree with OW on this one. Even very overweight people can move around in a standard cabin and shower, if need be, in the spa. OW's DH can not. I believe people confined to a chair should have priority on the Handicapped cabins. How to do this I do not know. The problem remains.

 

By the way, Just got back from the May 1-9 Golden Princess. I booked a standard inside cabin and made out fine but gosh I wished the toilet & bed were higher. :o My very good AB friends booked a handicapped room. :eek: They would have gladly moved if a handicapped needed it (but we know that drill :D ) Was supposed to be only May 1-8 but we got stuck in a big storm on the way to NY and we couldnt make it in time. The storm had 30 ft waves and 60 kmph winds. I dont get seasick so I can say it was great fun and very exciting.

 

Linda

 

P.S. Never saw so many people with scooters on a cruise in my life.

[kitty9]

While I can understand the notion of having unseen disabilities, the whole parking with a tag issue is completely out of control. I'm relatively young, at least to many people, to have a disability (I had polio at age 2), and get lots of nasty stares when I pull into a disabled parking space. Only until they see me get out and walk with my cane, do the nasty looks stop. I even had a man walk up to my car window, shake his fist at me and yell that this is a handicapped space. That type of thing has happened to me all too often.

But, on the other hand, our local TV station did an expose on the misuse of handicapped parking tags, and the results were amazing and made me very angry. They went to the downtown area where there are lots of businesses and counted the number of cars parked on the street for free using HC placards. Over 80% were being used illegally. They copied down the numbers on the tags and found that in a number of cases, the person to whom the tag was issued was deceased. Most were using the tags of their parents or grandparents. They all just wanted to avoid parking lots and their daily fees. I have suffered for many years with my disability, and parking close to buildings is just about the only "perk" to my health problems, but when people park there using placards that aren't their own, really irks me. I just wish that the penalities for misuse of an HC placard were tougher.

[Oceanwench]

Candy,

 

You are right -- there are no easy answers on the use of HC cabins by those who are obese.

Maybe the solution is to make bigger bathrooms/showers -- thus, less rooms on cruise ships and higher charges for cruises?

 

Judging from what I saw on my most recent cruise [last week], there are a lot of obese people sailing. Our ship had 24 HC rooms. Many ships have far less. So who would get them? :confused:

[Oceanwench]

But, on the other hand, our local TV station did an expose on the misuse of handicapped parking tags, and the results were amazing and made me very angry. They went to the downtown area where there are lots of businesses and counted the number of cars parked on the street for free using HC placards. Over 80% were being used illegally. They copied down the numbers on the tags and found that in a number of cases, the person to whom the tag was issued was deceased. Most were using the tags of their parents or grandparents. They all just wanted to avoid parking lots and their daily fees. I have suffered for many years with my disability, and parking close to buildings is just about the only "perk" to my health problems, but when people park there using placards that aren't their own, really irks me. I just wish that the penalities for misuse of an HC placard were tougher.

 

I totally agree with this!

But policing the illegal use of the placards is not always a priority for law enforcement.

And what about malls -- that's private property. So the mall security officers would have to be doing it.

 

Down here in Florida we have a large elderly population, and every time I see a young family hopping out of a car parked in an HC spot, I wonder if it's Gramma's placard they're using.

But I am not going to confront them or act rude to them. You just don't know who the person with the disability is!

 

When DH is not with me, I would never use the placard. Even when he is with me, if he is not getting out of the car, I generally don't use the HC space. If there is the possibility that he may get out, then I do use the HC space.

 

Although I sometimes wonder: If I am running into a store to pick up something, and he stays in the car, and I don't park in an HC space, and he needs to get out for an emergency ...

Does anyone else face that dilemma?

[kitty9]

Oceanwench, my mom is no longer able to drive because of her handicap, so my sister or I drive her everywhere. When it's my sister driving, even though she's not disabled, she parks in an HC space because there have been a few times when my mom has had to get out of the car and go inside the business, or whatever place, and tell my sister something. But, my sister never, EVER uses the placard when she's alone in the car.

[cjh]

The parking law is pretty much the same in all states because they tried to comply with the ADA so I don't know if this is the same in all states or not but I would assume it is. If you park in a handicap parking space and the handicap person stays in the car you can be ticketed. I know someone that did that and they received a $150 ticket.

[Oceanwench]

The parking law is pretty much the same in all states because they tried to comply with the ADA so I don't know if this is the same in all states or not but I would assume it is. If you park in a handicap parking space and the handicap person stays in the car you can be ticketed. I know someone that did that and they received a $150 ticket.

 

I am going to ask DH to research that! I know when I run to the ATM or into Blockbuster, I'd never use the HC space. But when I may be delayed, and he may have to get out of the van to use a restroom or look for me ... well ... it's a judgment call. It isn't fair to trap him in the vehicle with no recourse.

[DEL67]

I know that in NJ you can lose your handicap priveledges if you park in a handicap space without the person associated with the permit in the car. However, I have never heard that you can lose it if the person is not getting put of the car.

 

Regardless, I only park in a handicap spaces if my husband is getting out of the car. I would never want to take a space from someone else needs it more. I still get looks though if I return to the car without him to get something we have forgotten or drop a package off in the car.