Apology Ltr to Milestone cruisers

[WiCruiseDreamer]

Which posters here do you think work for Carnival? To be honest, I wish I DID as I could get free cruises! Hmm, maybe a plan for a post-retirement job... ;)

 

Or maybe just a career change? I would enjoy working for Carnival, would be on a ship a lot more often then I am now.

[btrbill]

Or maybe just a career change? I would enjoy working for Carnival, would be on a ship a lot more often then I am now.

 

How true! Hey, I thought about a few 3/4 day B2Ber's to hit Platinum and might need a roommate for some... Interested?:D

[WiCruiseDreamer]

How true! Hey, I thought about a few 3/4 day B2Ber's to hit Platinum and might need a roommate for some... Interested?:D

 

Lol ... always looking for a good cruise ...

[Bandman]

How far up the ladder do we have to go before the person we speak with is considered to be speaking for the company? The CEO?

 

Carnival got burnt using a social media platform in a way that most businesses stay far far away from. The number one reason for disciplinary action in my company is now "Facebook issues". I bet JH's focus changes from here on out.

[bb_and_jb]

From what I see, when ever the new program was discussed, it was discussed as a 4 Level Program. If it was a 4 level program, them milestones WOULD be at the highest level (Blue being the lowest, then Red, then Gold, and finally Platnium). But the Dimond Level is a 5th level. While I can understand the anger and fustration about the situation, If it was a 4 level program as it was origianlly presented as, then everyone would have what they wanted. But it's not, so just enjoy the simple pleasure of crusing and realx!!! I dont think I am going to make it to the 10 mark before next year. But it is what it is. I am at 7 in the system, so I will take that for now.:)

[rickechambers1@aol.com]

I was told this by every person I spoke to that represented CCL. I am not defending myself here. I know what was promised. I know what happened. And I know what needs to happen to fix it.

 

Go on 25 cruises, have that cruise line promise you something, and then see how you feel. Stop defending CCL unless you're going through the same thing.

 

Many credit card companies allow you to design your visa card. Why not take your visa and have it say "Carnival DIAMOND Milestone Elite Premium Highest Tier Better Than You Look At My Card it says DIAMOND!!!!" Sounds like you'd like that in your wallet in case people forget you are (the clouds part and a voice bellows) DIAMOND. it'll be ok. Promise. Smile and enjoy the view.

[rickechambers1@aol.com]

If Carnival is going to bend rules for people to catch up to Plat......then it is a reasonable gripe for 25 cruises or more to be given diamond status. It makes perfect sense after all the recent hostility, for Carnival just to do the right thing and take care of their most loyal guests. I have 29 cruises for a total of 180 days. How is the world do those stats have to be watered down now? I booked my next cruise knowing I had unlimited free laundry and reservation dinner times set in stone. Now it's ok on their end to change things? It's not right. And like I said earlier....why mess with your most loyal guests? Not happy.

 

You booked your next cruise for free laundry and set in stone dining times? REALLY? LOL.

Why did you book the previous 29?

[rickechambers1@aol.com]

Umn... I just completed my 3rd Carnival cruise. I spend approximately $3000 plus each time I venture out on a ship- more if you count airfare, hotels and extras (that's not counting other people I pay for). So if I used that average to get to 25 cruises that would mean I spent over $75,000. Now... if I were promised something when I got to that level of spending and had it um... removed- yes, I'd be a little pissed off too. I mean, what is it that you (Carnival) think I cannot afford? What is it that you think I need to pay for now? Do you think you are the only game in town? Not yet anyway.

 

It's not so much the removal of the small gesture... it's the way it's been done.

 

Ask any woman about how that kind of thing works in courtship. A woman grows horns over broken promises. The very smallest of things. Bad, bad PR for Canival.

Valid point. Perhaps it should have been based on $'s spent. But its not. Book the Garden Villa on NCL and it'll cost you $75000 for 3 cruises. Still not top tier. And still have laundry to do when you get home. But worth every penny!

[pai1762]

 

Never the less, comments were made by JH and he assured Milestone members that they would be grandfathered. Being a trusted member of the staff, I would think that the man would know something. Guess it just shows us that even the Senior Cruise Director doesn't know what he is talking about. I also have names of many upper line supervisors with Carnival that stated the same thing (even as late as last night). Bottom line is that it is all about the $$$$.

 

Hay Rich get over your self will ya. JH can only say what he is told to say for one thing. #2 Think about it no cruise line has to give you A dam thing if they don't want to. Think about this Mr Rich ALL cruise lines are the same they give and they can take it A way. I cruise for the fun NOT the perks.

[mrsglovesapg]

1. Google Bridge Blue Prints...

2. Build Said Bridge....

3. And Get Over it and Yourself!

[PA Dutchman]

Earn your 200 days to be Diamond. Except for 1 cruise you don't get anything anyway. Life a bitch when you don't get things handed to you.

[LHP]

They are and always have been. Even if not, the programs have always been subject to change and still are.

 

Everyone knows that NOW>

 

 

the problem is .... no one knew it the past 3 + years the Milestone program has been in place.

 

And they certainly did not know it 10 months ago when they were encouraged to "cram in SHORT cruises to reach "the next level" by Carnival On Line staff.

[LHP]

No, it is not. Misleading...maybe. But lying as defined below has to contain an INTENT... the people who told you to book extra cruises told you that based on information they had at the time... called specualtion.

 

lie

 

1    /laɪ/ [/url]Show Spelled [lahy] Show IPA noun, verb, lied, ly·ing.

noun 1. a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.

 

 

 

No...actually in some cases... Carnival employees (not John) made an offer to cruisers that IF they achieved the Milestone level BEFORE the new program was implemented that they would be GRANDFATHERED INTO the Diamond level.

 

How do we know they promised the Diamond level?

 

Because merely staying at Platinum provided no additional benefit to being "grandfathered in". And these Carnival employees (again whose job is to assist cruisers and answer questions) promised an "additional benefit". Or else there would have been no purpose for the offer.

 

 

It is BECAUSE these Carnival employees (who are paid to assist guests and answer questions) believed that this "current level" would be Diamond.

 

Now, these employees were wrong. But that does not release Carnival from the liability of these employees ACTIONS.

 

These employees MADE the offer. Some cruisers took them up on that offer.

AND that is an implied contract.

[buckeyefrank]

I understand why someone would be upset by being told something by a representative of the company and it being incorrect.

 

The question I have is why certain people are SO angry. Obviously I have not been on a ton of cruises. I choose my cruises based on my budget, time available and value. If it doesn't meet those criteria I don't go. I just don't understand booking multiple cruises so I can reach a level that I can get free laundry service and a confirmed dining option. Spending about $3,000 on 2 cruises specifically to get a $25 service doesn't make sense to me.

[Hunwolf]

They could make a new level for these specific folks with some of the same benefits that Diamond has...maybe call it Emerald?

 

Just a suggestion from the "Glass House/Big Brother" playbook...

[rellersi]

They could make a new level for these specific folks with some of the same benefits that Diamond has...maybe call it Emerald?

 

Just a suggestion from the "Glass House/Big Brother" playbook...

 

I like that the additional benefit could be 1/2 of a steak in the steakhouse, you get the other half at 200 days :)

[musicgal]

I understand why someone would be upset by being told something by a representative of the company and it being incorrect.

 

The question I have is why certain people are SO angry. Obviously I have not been on a ton of cruises. I choose my cruises based on my budget, time available and value. If it doesn't meet those criteria I don't go. I just don't understand booking multiple cruises so I can reach a level that I can get free laundry service and a confirmed dining option. Spending about $3,000 on 2 cruises specifically to get a $25 service doesn't make sense to me.

.

 

Hi Frank- I'm pretty much with you as far as perks go... won't have them for a long time at the rate I'm going. Heck- I just got through bringing my husband's tux to the drycleaner yesterday! But a lot of folks here live in the stratosphere of cruising... they've spent megabucks on lines, not only Carnival. I made a comment about how we spend around 3K everytime we cruise and that is conservative. I'm certainly not spending that kind of money to get free laundry. The laundry on the ship, as impressive as it is, would ruin half my clothes if they use the commercial machines I saw on the behind the fun tour. Priority boarding and debarkation is nice, but we've booked suites and balconies and get pretty good service in that area as a result anyway. So, I enter the dialogue without a dog in the race, so to speak. Objectively... since I have no expectations- I am not disappointed. BUT, and here is what people are upset about, is the perception that they have been misled or lied to.

 

You know, we have a saying around here (at home). Perception IS reality. I don't care if you're not legally responsible for some implied promise you made to me. I know what you meant when you whispered sweet nothings in my ear. Shoot, that's why we women call them sweet nothings. So I have representatives of the company telling me to fill up my dance card with their cruises... heck, good for them right. What's dangled out to me? Free laundry? Okay- whatever:rolleyes: But if they reneg on that silly little thing, um... is it the missed laundry or the cruddy way I got drawn into spending a few thousand more that's making me grimace?

 

I've said it before. I- don't- personally have a problem with Carnival. But I'm not a Diamond. I'm not a Platinum. I was once Gold but now I'm Red (sung to the tune of Amazing Grace). The company followed through with our gold status on this last cruise and honored the prices for the steakhouse as per our reservation. I ordered Bon Voyage early when news of the hike hit CC. CC is very trustable, in my opinion. As it pertains to long term loyalty promises however, my impression is that Carnival is NOT.

 

I am just a lowly peon though in the chain of hierarchy:D I like to cruise though... and I have discretionary income... so, whoever gives me a bad impression about their intent and promises towards me shoot themselves in the foot. That's the dynamic I see occuring right now with this seemingly meaningless change in the VIP program. By the way, I think the acronym VIFP is stupid. I won't use it to label myself... I'm fun without it.

 

I must confess that I don't eat the chocolates laid out at night... DH eats both.

[satex]

Hay Rich get over your self will ya. JH can only say what he is told to say for one thing. #2 Think about it no cruise line has to give you A dam thing if they don't want to. Think about this Mr Rich ALL cruise lines are the same they give and they can take it A way. I cruise for the fun NOT the perks.

1. If JH was told to tell everyone that they were to be grandfathered then they should be. He is the Senior Cruise Director and upper management, therefore, he should know what he is talking about before he puts it in writing. Once it is in writing then the company should be held responsible.

 

2. All cruise lines are not the same! Royal says they will give you something and they stick to their word!

 

3. Now I'm over it and you!

[Hunwolf]

So wait...are some on this thread saying that JH intentionally mislead people into booking more cruises in the expectation that they would be grandfathered into Diamond?

 

You guys believe that corporate knew all along what the final plan was going to be but strung people along for a little extra cash?

 

Come on now people...a business would never lie or mislead its customers...or even use deceptive/puffery/collusive tactics!!!

 

Scandalous!!!

[K.T.B.]

1. If JH was told to tell everyone that they were to be grandfathered then they should be. He is the Senior Cruise Director and upper management, therefore, he should know what he is talking about before he puts it in writing. Once it is in writing then the company should be held responsible.

 

2. All cruise lines are not the same! Royal says they will give you something and they stick to their word!

 

3. Now I'm over it and you!

 

A company will keep its word as long as it's profitable for them to do so. Period. A company is not a person.

 

JH is not the company. He is a mouthpiece. If he spoke out of turn and made promises he knew could not be kept, then the company would have fired him. If the information he gave was correct at the time, then the company was fine with it. If, after further review, the company decided to alter its plans and did not inform JH of it, then the onous is on them for not being more clear in their instructions.

 

I do not believe for one moment anyone actually LIED. I think people within the company were a little too quick on supplying info when it was still being worked out. Basically, the right hand didn't know what the left hand was doing.

 

In the end, this is a massive PR blunder on many levels. Someone major from the corporate level needs to adress it and alleviate concerns. Otherwise, people will perceive the worst.

[btrbill]

No...actually in some cases... Carnival employees (not John) made an offer to cruisers that IF they achieved the Milestone level BEFORE the new program was implemented that they would be GRANDFATHERED INTO the Diamond level.

 

Not quite accurate. They were told they would be grandfathered into the top tier, but they had no idea it would be called diamond.;)

 

How do we know they promised the Diamond level?

 

Because merely staying at Platinum provided no additional benefit to being "grandfathered in". And these Carnival employees (again whose job is to assist cruisers and answer questions) promised an "additional benefit". Or else there would have been no purpose for the offer.

 

To play devils advocate, there certainly was an additional benefit for them to get to milestone! The OBC's for one! Granted, everyone knows you already got that upon reaching Milestone, but a PVP could use that to push as well.

 

It is BECAUSE these Carnival employees (who are paid to assist guests and answer questions) believed that this "current level" would be Diamond.

 

You just made the argument I have been saying on this thread from the beginning! In red above, the employees believed, based on incomplete information, that they were telling you correct information. In fact the information was not accurate. But at the time and place they gave this information out, they (dangerous word here) assumed it to be factual.

 

Now, these employees were wrong. But that does not release Carnival from the liability of these employees ACTIONS.

 

Actually, I believe it does. I have the case referance on my home computer and will try to post it tonight when I get home, but in simple terms in MOST situations, an employee cannot bind a company, even in writing, if that employee does not have the authority to do to so, or if it is a contridiction to published company policies. At the time these employees made the suggestion to book more cruises, the other program was in effect and published. That is all you can base a complaint on.

 

These employees MADE the offer. Some cruisers took them up on that offer.

AND that is an implied contract.

 

See above. There was no implied contract. They gave information based on incomplete data to try to help others, during a time when published procedures mandated otherwise. The Milestoners where mislead!! Not lied to, not "promised", not contracted with. Mislead.

 

I hope you guys DO get resolution! I will be among the first to congratulate you if you do.

 

Of course, it will have to be later as I have a surgery tomorrow that will have me out of commission for 8-10 days...:(

[glrounds]

I've contended all along that Carnival's beards/been counters/upper management (pick one) DO NOT want to fill their ships with EXPERIENCED cruisers. Carnival's cabin PRICE POINT (budget) doesn't allow for this as it relates to profitability. A cruise director once told me that 47% of the paxs on average on any given Carnival ship are FIRST TIME Carnival cruisers. With an exacting record (your Sail'n'Sign account) of the SPENDING HABITS of every cruiser along with the number of cruises they've taken on Carnival, they are perfectly setup to do some real number crunching as to profitability relating to the # of cruises. The BLUE'n'GOLD cruiser is most likely much less savvy about cruising and, therefore, much more VALUABLE to them.

 

I think they would readily see that for the first several cruises, these "Newbies", or more broadly, NON-PLATINUMS, blow inordinate amounts of loot on BOOZE (after all its not like real money, we'll just put it on the Sail'n'Sign):D, whereas many savvy cruisers might drink less or tend to do their heavy drinking in ports ($1 Sol beer in Puerta Vallarta and Manzanillo, FREE if you sample their high-end Tequila which is also FREE).:confused:

 

I'm guessing that the BLUE'n'GOLD CARDERS purchased a bazillion PHOTOS or the cruise video, versus the savvy cruiser who already has them all over his home.:rolleyes:

 

They may also drop a house payment or two in the casino. Whereas, that PLATINUM cruiser knows there is no Nevada Gaming Commission OVERSEEING the slot return percentages, Bingo return, or the rake on the Poker table. They'll go much easier, probably.:rolleyes:

 

The Newbie will most likely purchase more SHIP EXCURSIONS, whereas, armed with internet info and cruise websites, the PLATINUM cruiser gets around a lot of this.

 

That "number crunching" would also bear out more intense spending in the cruise ship's shops, shore sponsored stores, and Art Auction among Newbies.

 

When I look back on all the loot I blew on my first several cruises, I'm amazed at how friggin' stupid I could be. I know Carnival ships are the FUN SHIPS[horn sound here]. I've loved them forever (look at my history), but their main draw is and probably always will be CABIN PRICING. The Walmart of cruising as some say (they don't even realize what a compliment they're giving Carnival):). They must MAXIMIZE the on board spending per cabin and one sure way, IMHO, and on a computer algorithm is to load their ships with the NON-PLATINUM cruisers.

 

I love you, Carnival, but you're pissing a lot of people off. And, yes, I understand its not PERSONAL . . . its just BUSINESS.:D

 

[halos]

I've contended all along that Carnival's beards/been counters/upper management (pick one) DO NOT want to fill their ships with EXPERIENCED cruisers. Carnival's cabin PRICE POINT (budget) doesn't allow for this as it relates to profitability. A cruise director once told me that 47% of the paxs on average on any given Carnival ship are FIRST TIME Carnival cruisers. With an exacting record (your Sail'n'Sign account) of the SPENDING HABITS of every cruiser along with the number of cruises they've taken on Carnival, they are perfectly setup to do some real number crunching as to profitability relating to the # of cruises. The BLUE'n'GOLD cruiser is most likely much less savvy about cruising and, therefore, much more VALUABLE to them.

 

I think they would readily see that for the first several cruises, these "Newbies", or more broadly, NON-PLATINUMS, blow inordinate amounts of loot on BOOZE (after all its not like real money, we'll just put it on the Sail'n'Sign), whereas many savvy cruisers might drink less or tend to do their heavy drinking in ports ($1 Sol beer in Puerta Vallarta and Manzanillo, FREE if you sample their high-end Tequila which is also FREE).:confused:

 

I'm guessing that the BLUE'n'GOLD CARDERS purchased a bazillion PHOTOS or the cruise video, versus the savvy cruiser who already has them all over his home.:rolleyes:

 

They may also drop a house payment or two in the casino. Whereas, that PLATINUM cruiser knows there is no Nevada Gaming Commission OVERSEEING the slot return percentages, Bingo return, or the rake on the Poker table. They'll go much easier, probably.:rolleyes:

 

The Newbie will most likely purchase more SHIP EXCURSIONS, whereas, armed with internet info and cruise websites, the PLATINUM cruiser gets around a lot of this.

 

That "number crunching" would also bear out more intense spending in the cruise ship's shops, shore sponsored stores, and Art Auction among Newbies.

 

When I look back on all the loot I blew on my first several cruises, I'm amazed at how friggin' stupid I could be. I know Carnival ships are the FUN SHIPS[horn sound here]. I've loved them forever (look at my history), but their main draw is and probably always will be CABIN PRICING. The Walmart of cruising as some say (they don't even realize what a compliment they're giving Carnival):). They must MAXIMIZE the on board spending per cabin and one sure way, IMHO, and on a computer algorithm is to load their ships with the NON-PLATINUM cruisers.

 

I love you, Carnival, but you're pissing a lot of people off. And, yes, I understand its not PERSONAL . . . its just BUSINESS.:D

 

 

Gary, I think all of that makes total sense...however, the market they are targeting/drawing may not have a ton of loot to spend on board. Are they counting on people to be totally irresponsible??:confused: LOL...maybe they are.

I just think that even the cruiser with no experience is going to not spend a lot if they are barely able to make the cruise fare...like I said, I read the posts here and people want 7 day cruises for under $500. I don't think these people are going to drop a ton of money on photos and booze on board.

But I could be wrong....

[Brendarudd28]

It isn't speculation when you're told by the CCL blogger/spokesperson, when you're told by employees when you call... I am calling the company and the company is publishing information. They lied.

 

Time after time after time I was told platinum and milestone cruisers would be grandfathered in to the new tiers.... from JH, from crew, on the phone..

 

"I am hoping that you read this so I can tell you that when the new loyalty program does eventually come out that those who are close to one of the current two high levels of Platinum and Milestone will not be punished and will have their levels grandfathered in. I see from what you have told me that you will have nothing to be concerned about. Your loyalty is very important to us..."

 

 

I'm also not trying to start anything here, but I have a question - actually two.

My first question would be when were you told that you would be grandfathered in if you reached 25 cruises by a certain date? If it's been in the last several months, well you've only cruised 3 times and they look like short cruises.

My second question is, wouldn't you have cruised 4 times this year with Carnival regardless of whether that got you to the Diamond level or not? From your signature, it doesn't really look like your cruising habits have changed since you were "racing to get to 25" as some Carnival employees had encouraged you to do. You cruised 5 times in 2010, 3 times in 2009 and 4 times in both 2008 and 2007.

And finally, it looks like your cruise isn't until September. I assume that you booked under Past Guest since it'll be your 25th cruise and you'll qualify for the 25% in OBC. Why don't you just cancel it? You should get a 100% refund right?

Again, not looking to start a fight, just a couple observations. I hope it gets worked out. But I do agree that business is business. I just think about my bank. They are constantly changing their perks programs and the styles of the accounts they have. I used to have free checking with all kinds of perks. Now, I have free checking and have to pay for the perks.

[glrounds]

Gary, I think all of that makes total sense...however, the market they are targeting/drawing may not have a ton of loot to spend on board. Are they counting on people to be totally irresponsible??:confused: LOL...maybe they are.

I just think that even the cruiser with no experience is going to not spend a lot if they are barely able to make the cruise fare...like I said, I read the posts here and people want 7 day cruises for under $500. I don't think these people are going to drop a ton of money on photos and booze on board.

But I could be wrong....

 

Your point is well taken, Halos. You may be quite right, at least for the FIRST TIME cruiser who suddenly discovers half way through the cruise, that "this cruisin' crap is EXPEN$IVE". But for those on cruise 2 and up, I think they learn to budget for a "blowout" ahead of time.:D When I first started cruising I was a high-end California roofing contractor making God awful amounts of money. Finding the TIME to cruise was the biggest problem then, so spending money on board was just a natural way to get rid of some of it. I used to ALWAYS buy expensive perfume for my ex-wife, colognes for myself and my son, gold jewelry at the ship-recommended stores. I think at times I must have caused the stock of Jack Daniels to jump at least 2 or 3 points when I cruised.:rolleyes: And then somewhere in there, say 7 through 21 (for me) it became obvious there are much more efficient ways to enjoy cruising.:D

 

Plus, the State of California made me a great offer. If I would quit drinkin' I wouldn't have to go to prison.:D