Newsweek article

[LAFFNVEGAS]

Maybe I'm the only one that feels this way, however to me the article reeks of sensationalism and the desire for Newsweek to sell issues.:eek: The major complaint I have heard from crew members is that they have to be away from their families. I am of the opinion that working on a ship is a great opportunity for them compared to the jobs available in their home countries!.

 

I dunno.....

 

I don't believe everything I read.

I'm not so sure there isn't a bit of exagerration. How do any of us really know what the 'true' conditions are?

 

 

Sensationalism Sells Newspapers, Magazines and Books!!!!! Plain and simple.

Sail I agree 200%

I think many would be shocked at some of the working conditions and hours worked by many North American's. Ask any self employed person or anyone that works strictly commission how many hours they work. To make a living they must work 60 hours a week. How many families have to work 2 to 3 jobs per person to keep a roof over their head and that roof may have many leaks right here in the US and the working conditions of those jobs are not great. I am sorry but there are many people that would give their eye tooth to send Mom or Dad off to make money and would feel they have it great being on the ship. Every job has pros and cons and you give and take.

If I went to work on a ship doing basically what I do now I would be working far less hours than I do now for about the same pay, the down side would be missing my family, but the up side would be the sense of family crew and Officers have when working together.

[WpgCruise]

There was a lot of US flagged ships in the past where the crew worked human hours and made a good wage. In fact I think they belonged a seafarers union so they had a rep for working out problems. They are all gone because people want to talk with their mouth and not their money. People want to talk about how the crew are mistreated but still want the 499$ week trip. If the same trip was 1000$ so the crew worked 8 hour days, with a day off a week, and made US minium wage the line would be out of business. To say it's ok because there no jobs at home is like saying " No bread, let them eat cake "

 

I agree 100% Until we are prepared to pay more for our cruises, how can we expect service to be "the way cruising used to be" High staff to customer ratios can still be found on cruises that charge significantly more than the mass market lines, but "people want to talk with their mouth, not their money"

[iancal]

The Newsweek article agrees with everything else that I have read about cruise ship working conditions-both from a salary and a working conditons perspective.

 

Cunard has, or is in the process or reregistering their ships out of the EU in order to avoid paying higher wages and falling under certain EU workplace health and safety regulations. Others cruise lines whose ships are registered in EU countries will be following suit.

 

We tend to be just a little hypocritical.

 

WalMart stores are full of shoppers who belong to unions which actively encourage those workers not shop at Walmart. While their members may agree with the sentimens, their wallets make the decison.

[CI66774]

Well - I believe safety issues are paramount and crew should not be exposed to unreasonably dangerous conditions over and above what is inherent working on a cruise ship.

 

For those who want the crew to make wages similar to those enjoyed in Europe or North America - be prepared to pay a lot more for your cruise. I mean a lot more. Then less people will cruise and - guess what - cruise ships will have to lay off staff - then guess what - these people won't have any jobs at all. Be careful what you wish for - it may end up hurting more than helping.

[vbmom87]

I respect your opinion, however in my opinion one should be paid by the law of supply & demand and BTW demand is very high for these jobs I understand.

 

:rolleyes: hmmmmm.

[vbmom87]

I was in the US Navy stationed on a destroyer (1965-1967). I regularly worked 16-18 hours a day (at sea) in the engine room without a/c and slept (3-4 hrs) in a room 20x30 with 30 ther sailors. There were weeks at sea where I was awakened at 3:30 AM and worked starting at precisely 3:45 AM in the engine room until 8 PM at night. On Sunday we only were in the engine room 10-12 hrs. By the way, I took home $112.00 a month. There were times we were out to sea for a month at a time. I had to endure this for 2 years. As bad as the cruise crews have it, there are those in the military who have it worse.

 

Still doesn't make it right.

[igraf]

I agree that the story is probably an exaggeration. For example, it is well known that HAL recruits and trains their workers at training facilities in the worker's home country. Not much opportunity for unscrupulous headhunters. It is also well known that diseases are largely brought on by passengers, and not a result of the crew's living conditions. Furthermore, HAL does not lie about the purpose of code orange (referred to as "silver service" in the article). HAL is very upfront about discussing the norovirus.

 

I have spoken with crew members at length and have a good idea what is going on behind the scenes. They do work long hours, but this article is just an example of bad journalism.

 

igraf

 

 

 

Maybe I'm the only one that feels this way, however to me the article reeks of sensationalism and the desire for Newsweek to sell issues.:eek: The major complaint I have heard from crew members is that they have to be away from their families. I am of the opinion that working on a ship is a great opportunity for them compared to the jobs available in their home countries!.

[arewethereyet]

Golly, I'm confused. If these jobs are so crappy, why are these people in fear of losing them?

 

I'm OK with paying them US minimum wage, but say so long to the hotel charge and any tip that I feel compelled to give because of guilty feelings.

 

I personally give extra cash tips in addition to the hotel charge now. If all the cabins are tipping as much as I do, then the cabin stewards are doing quit well, IMO.

 

BTW, a stronger union will kill the cruise industry as we know it. That's OK with me, as I will find something else to do. Just sayin'.

 

And, a word or two about conditions in the Navy and whether that is relevant. I think it is. I was also in the Navy in the 60s. We spent a lot of time at sea, and worked about 80 hours a week. Navy chow aboard a DER wasn't anything to write home about. The living conditions were crowded and smelly. No privacy whatsoever. What's the point? The point is that that isn't the last stop in your life. It's a starting point. Every job I've had since then has been better. If your dream job is to be a cabin steward on a cruise line, then, I wish you well my friend.

[richwmn]

If we are so concerned with the wages and working conditions of the crew on the ships, shouldn't we carry this over to rest of our lives?

 

Many of the products we use regularly are manufactured in conditions that come nowhere near US wages and working conditions.

 

That computer you are typing on -- most of the components were manufactured under conditions that we would come nowhere near.

 

Recent articles about abuses in the plants that make Apple products caused a major uproar and at least some changes. But those employees are still overworked and underpaid by US standards.

 

Check out the conditions under which the clothes on you back and the shoes on your feet are manufactured --- how much do those workers get paid.

 

Our low prices for consumer goods come on the backs of Chinese and other low wage workers.

 

Just something to think about

[Hawaiidan]

I was in the US Navy stationed on a destroyer (1965-1967). I regularly worked 16-18 hours a day (at sea) in the engine room without a/c and slept (3-4 hrs) in a room 20x30 with 30 ther sailors. There were weeks at sea where I was awakened at 3:30 AM and worked starting at precisely 3:45 AM in the engine room until 8 PM at night. On Sunday we only were in the engine room 10-12 hrs. By the way, I took home $112.00 a month. There were times we were out to sea for a month at a time. I had to endure this for 2 years. As bad as the cruise crews have it, there are those in the military who have it worse.

 

Well said, I was also on a Navy ship, and what todays crews have is luxury. plus people are shooting at you from time to time The spaces for crew are the size of officers cabins in the navy... and they even hace to share.

 

Newsweek knows much raking sell magazines. Too we are judging the experience of others form other cultures by our standard of living. It is not apples to apples. Ever been to india, thiland, china?

 

The ship conditions are the lap of luxury compared to where many come from and the wages they get provide them and their whold families with an excellent standard of living.

 

You can make more money as a waiter than as a teacher in their home country. These people fight to get these jobs because of they know. No one forces them..

 

It is a load of guff about corporate greed, explotation of inferior races at the hands of evil overseers, that sound like good old Karl Marx .... gimme a break....

[Typhoon1]

Ask any crew members about life back home. Every one will tell you they are working on cruise ships because things in their countries are "NOT GOOD".

 

We may think they are mistreated, however, compared to life in Indonesia, they are in paradise. They are hard workers, and deserve the recognition and respect some of us give them.

[innlady1]

My sister vactioned in Bali for three weeks in June. She told me the average monthly salary for people there, I can't remember what it is, but remember that I was shocked at how low it is.

Putting that into perspective, no wonder they are all so eager to work as crew on the cruise ships. Sad but true.

[djhsolara]

I'm not looking to get flamed for saying this so please don't, but I just don't get the fascination that everyone has for the staff on the ships. I am very cordial and pleasant to everyone that helps me but I'm really not concerned about their personal life.

 

When I go on a land-based vacation I don't go around asking the staff of the hotel about their home life and living conditions. I certainly talk with any staff that talks with me, but I don't go out of my way to do so and would never ask them personal life questions, just as I would never expect to be asked questions about my personal life (as I would find this to be absolutely unacceptable).

 

No one makes anyone do any job. It is their choice just as my job is my choice. They know what they are signing up for when they take the job just as I do with my job.

 

You might think I'm not a nice person for thinking this way, but that is very far from the truth.

 

:):)

 

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[Salacia]

I'm not looking to get flamed for saying this so please don't, but I just don't get the fascination that everyone has for the staff on the ships. I am very cordial and pleasant to everyone that helps me but I'm really not concerned about their personal life.

 

When I go on a land-based vacation I don't go around asking the staff of the hotel about their home life and living conditions. I certainly talk with any staff that talks with me, but I don't go out of my way to do so and would never ask them personal life questions, just as I would never expect to be asked questions about my personal life (as I would find this to be absolutely unacceptable).

 

No one makes anyone do any job. It is their choice just as my job is my choice. They know what they are signing up for when they take the job just as I do with my job.

 

You might think I'm not a nice person for thinking this way, but that is very far from the truth.

 

:):)

 

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Hi djhsolara. Perhaps it is not so much "the fascination that everyone has for the staff on the ships", as you call it, but rather the consideration that passengers have for the staff. And, by the way, that consideration is most often reciprocal, even to the extent where staff/crew members sacrifice their own well being to come to the aid of a passenger -as witnessed by the Costa Concorda disaster.

 

But I agree with you in that I would never ask a staff/crew member about their personal life, and I have never had a crew member ask me about my personal life. And yes, people are 'free' to either work under a given condition or not: that allows for conditions that expolit workers - historically, nothing new there. But maybe it's time for a change? I believe it is, and that is why we discuss the employment conditions of the people who work on board the ship we sail.

 

Regards,

Salacia

[BigGreenFan]

I'm not looking to get flamed for saying this so please don't, but I just don't get the fascination that everyone has for the staff on the ships.

 

Well said!

[rvk3314]

Oh really?.... pensions and medical care? As a Navy veteran I can say as an enlisted man for 3 years, I received no pension nor did my destroyer have a doctor, dentist, x-ray machine, or medical professional except a G-4 medic who probably had a few weeks of first aid training and few drugs to dispense. We often left port for weeks at a time under these conditions. On a Med cruise we were on station for 5 month. If injured at sea it could be a week or two before we could see a real doctor. Lets not forget the dangers and other hardships of the military serving on a warship or stationed in a war zone.

[arewethereyet]

Oh really?.... pensions and medical care? As a Navy veteran I can say as an enlisted man for 3 years, I received no pension nor did my destroyer have a doctor, dentist, x-ray machine, or medical professional except a G-4 medic who probably had a few weeks of first aid training and few drugs to dispense. We often left port for weeks at a time under these conditions. On a Med cruise we were on station for 5 month. If injured at sea it could be a week or two before we could see a real doctor. Lets not forget the dangers and other hardships of the military serving on a warship or stationed in a war zone.

Pretty much my experience as well. Although we did have a doctor on board.

[mamaofami]

Hal used to have dentists on all their ships. They were Americans and provided dental care for the crew on an appointment basis and in emergencies they treated crew and passengers. HAL cut out this service several years ago because it wasn't cost effective for them.

[bishop84]

Hal used to have dentists on all their ships. They were Americans and provided dental care for the crew on an appointment basis and in emergencies they treated crew and passengers. HAL cut out this service several years ago because it wasn't cost effective for them.

 

This matter was raised at a Q&A I attended a couple of cruises ago. The answer given then is that if a crewmember needs dental or medical treatment that cannot be done onboard then arrangements are made for them to have it in port at no cost to themselves. This applied to guests as well but we would have to pay, the same as onboard

[sail7seas]

We know people who had dental emergencies and, indeed, port agent made appointment for them with a dentist. They had someone bring them there, translate if necessary and return them to the ship.

 

The care, of course, depended upon the available choices in the port of call.

The guest was responsible for all charges.

 

[Hawaiidan]

The navy corpsmen , on ships have a tad more training and experience than first aid. They have amlost 1 year of intensive training and clinical experience. They are in effect advanced paramedics .. and many of them possess practical skills far greater than a MD.

 

In many cases I would rather have a navy corpsman than a green MD, if I was really hurt. I know several corpsmen who went on th become emergency room MD's... Dont sell them short..

 

Ask and Marine.. about their "Doc"...

[iancal]

I know of a number of people who have exited the armed forces after 20 or 25 years with a good pension and a very good medical plan. I hardly think that you can compare this to someone who works on a cruise ship at sub US minimum wages for 20 or 25 years.

 

The comparison between someone serving their country for three years vs

someone doing it for a living is unfair.

 

Bottom line, would you recommend a stewards position, working environment, and wages to your family members or for yourself? I hardly think so.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

Bottom line, would you recommend a stewards position, working environment, and wages to your family members or for yourself? I hardly think so.

Actually YES I would, just because you would not work a position like that does not mean others might not. We have a son that has had the hardest time finding a FULL time job here in Las Vegas as a food server, if you get hired it is part time (10 to 15 hours a week), no benefits, bad shifts that make hardly no tips. He just had to move back home this week. He has many friends in the same boat so to speak. He is willing to work lots of hours, HAL stewards especially in the Dining Room are making about $25,000 to $30,000 a year with tips. There are hundreds of people right here in Las Vegas that would love to make that kind of money and have a roof over their head, food to eat and health care and be able to send money home to their families even if it is a ship.

[Archie796]

I'm not looking to get flamed for saying this so please don't, but I just don't get the fascination that everyone has for the staff on the ships. I am very cordial and pleasant to everyone that helps me but I'm really not concerned about their personal life.

 

When I go on a land-based vacation I don't go around asking the staff of the hotel about their home life and living conditions. I certainly talk with any staff that talks with me, but I don't go out of my way to do so and would never ask them personal life questions, just as I would never expect to be asked questions about my personal life (as I would find this to be absolutely unacceptable).

 

No one makes anyone do any job. It is their choice just as my job is my choice. They know what they are signing up for when they take the job just as I do with my job.

 

You might think I'm not a nice person for thinking this way, but that is very far from the truth.

 

:):)

 

Sent from my GT-P3113 using Tapatalk 2

 

 

I completely agree with this. If the cruise lines suddenly said "We have a union now and our employees will only work 5 days a week, and not more than 12 hours" that would not make things better, just more expensive. By the way, you cruise fare is now $2000 more per person, as our employees just got raises. You also then have a the problem of staff stuck the other 16 hours in their staff area, with a lot of time on their hands. They all sign up for the schedule they do for 9 month contracts and then they get to go home for weeks until their next assignment starts. There are many people who work alternate work weeks where they work 16 hours a day for 30 days and then reap 30 days off. These are all adults signing these contracts and if they don't like it, they wouldn't sign back on. Nobody likes work, which is why it is work, and many people toil in terrible conditions right here in the USA to make a substandard living. I see no difference. For many it is an entry job and they will go up the ladder.

There are people in the US willing to clean sewers for not too much money, and personally I have more respect for them, than I do for the people who are collecting money from the government because , it is not that they can't find a job, as much as it is they "won't do certain jobs because they don't likes the hours, the work, the pay etc" Many other countries are willing to do what it takes to feed their families and they do what they have to do. In the US, you don't have to do what you don't want to do, and you are paid well for what you refuse and don't do.

[Hawaiidan]

You can't compare the pay for someone from a foreign country to our pay.

You can only compare it to that countrys pay, and for the most part the cruise ships pay what is top-dollar for the country the worker is from.

 

In some countries people make a living, on less than $2 a day ! To pay them $7.50 an hour is crazy excess. THen there are the tips+ The crew gets room and board, laundry and have a clean quarters and good food.

The conditions they work under are far better than anything back home. The crew knows that.. they know the hours... and they line up years in advance.

 

Its like a a guy with a BMW or Benze, who is angushing over the poor people who only drive a Ford.. Should'nt everyone drive a car like theirs... the poor souls...

It maybe you would not choose to work this way, but they do.. and come back year after year because the money and conditions they have are that good.

 

As I said prior, I met cocktail waitresses on Holland that earned more in the ship than teaching school at home. Dont judge others by your standards...its a fools errand.