HAL's Next Ship??

[Typhoon1]

Again, an out of the blue, my own guess with no hints or clues from anyone, as to when HAL will announce a new ship.........

 

A senior HAL officer told us on our last cruise, Carnival Corp. has a keel laid at Fincantieri (sp) for assignment to HAL.

 

When does it get built? When the economy improves. He said it would be another Signature class ship. The economy is expected to improve in 2017. :eek::eek:

 

What does Carnival Corp. consider a better economy? Conversely, it may never get built.

[Modern_Viking]

It seems like a few things have gone wrong from HAL. Although keep in mind that most of what I am going to say is assumption or hearsay and not any sort of a quote of official info.

 

CCL seems to want its lines to show increasing revenue and profit each year and not just consistent profits. This forces lines to grow, and if they outgrow their demographic, like HAL is doing, seems to cause problems.

 

HAL was a premium line, focusing on empty nesters, people who want longer trips with a wider variety of destinations and don't like to be nickled and dimed and enjoy quieter, upscale accommodations. In order to expand, HAL had to break from tradition and build the vista and signature class: bigger ships, shorter itineraries (originally), more extra-cost restaurants and extra-cost cabanas (basically younger passengers seem to enjoy being nickled and dimed), and more verandas.

 

It isn't clear if HAL will try and shrink and retake its position as a premium line (along perhaps with Cunard) or be more mainstream (Carnival) or family driven (Princess). I expect Seaborne (and the Queens Grill cabins in Cunard) to take care of luxury.

 

Seaborne has been listed as an alternative to HAL, but for those of us who book large cabins but not suites and don't drink lots on-board, HAL is much more affordable.

 

It is quite possible HAL will still go bigger and find new ways to nickle and dime people like the Celebrity Solstice class and RCCL Oasis class (think extra expensive bars, extra price restaurants and lunch and dinner, extra cost activities, large ships that better spread the costs of the officers and entertainers, etc.). Or, they might stick to something more premium and inclusive (although I sadly doubt it).

 

Perhaps once the new Panama Canal locks are open HAL will adjust their plans to larger ships (than they have now) but still fit through that waterway.

 

It is also possible HAL could buy some newish second hand ships similar in size to one of the classes they have now (Prinsendam through signature). Although, I have no idea what ships might fit the bill. Many lines with ships in that size range are either all suites or have considerably smaller cabins.

 

Some general thoughts: To add more verandas, HAL could move the dining rooms and some other lounges into the hull rather than superstructure and end the tradition of wrap around promenade (although I hope not). I also wonder if they could change the geometry of the cabins a bit to make them deeper and narrower (i.e. less distance fore to aft, but longer port to starboard) -- which could also mean fewer inside cabins.

[philbob84]

I suspect if they do a larger ships which they probably will do it will be a mega ship design similar to the Carnival and Costa 130Kt Dream Class or the new Royal Princess 144KT design which is also being shared with P&O. The reasons I say t these ships is that the production lines will still be warm through 2016 and the costs should be driven down due to the previous learning curves with the first 4 Dream class and 3 Royal Princess class designs. That being said I would prefer them to recapitalize there "smaller ships" with new slightly bigger then the current smaller cruise ships designs that are more standardized, evolve-able or scalable with the intent to drive down long term costs .

[BellBoys]

We hope that whatever size ship is built that they include retreat cabanas and more alternate dining options on board. We love the variety of food and find the retreat cabanas the best part of being on board. Its great to be able to wake up late, eat a leisurely breakfast and know that a space/chair/lounger is going to be available for you. In addition a redesign of the Deluxe Suite would be great with a true separate living area from the bedroom space would be welcome. We do realize that window/balcony space is a premium but a Neptune Lounge with views would be tremendous.

[kazu]

We hope that whatever size ship is built that they include retreat cabanas and more alternate dining options on board. We love the variety of food and find the retreat cabanas the best part of being on board. Its great to be able to wake up late, eat a leisurely breakfast and know that a space/chair/lounger is going to be available for you. In addition a redesign of the Deluxe Suite would be great with a true separate living area from the bedroom space would be welcome. We do realize that window/balcony space is a premium but a Neptune Lounge with views would be tremendous.

 

The Neptune Lounge on the Prinsendam has not only great views but a magnificent balcony as well:D:D

[sail7seas]

I never considered the possibility of HAL purchasing an existing ship from another cruise line but sure, that could happen.

 

Look how well Prinsendam has done in the fleet.

 

I also have no clue which lines could possibly have ships HAL would consider, if any.

 

[dr.dawg]

i know i'll be 'blasted' by some of you. but it saddens me to say that, like many others, i see hal's decline over the years, and i hear or read so many 'once upon a time' comments. this is not good. hal seems reactive rather than proactive, and that is death in these times. yes, for instance, i see the replacement of fresh flowers with fake ones, but that is only a symptom of the disease. staff cuts and slower times and decreased food quality in the mdr -- only symptoms. toilet problems, a/c and heating issues -- only symptoms. and on and on -- but symptoms add up.

 

my fear is, like one poster said, carnival corp. will simply 'milk' hal until they cannot afford to carry the brand anymore, and just let it die or be merged with, let's say, princess. or, worse, costa. it happens all the time in other businesses. look at banks, department stores, grocery store brands, etc. and who subsumes them all -- the wal-marts of the world. because they make money -- that is money.

 

like it or not, true or not, hal seems to cater to lots of seniors; retirees or near-retirees. i don't see their 'reachout' to younger folks working much, so far. despite brochure models, and so forth. now, i am a senior citizen -- read 68, read OLD -- and i don't get around like i used to. lots of back, leg, and other issues. hal is just right for me. but i won't be around long and able to cruise. hal is soon going to lose my business, if it hasn't already. i suspect i'm not alone. what then for hal?

 

i'm not sure hal can 're-invent' its self. i know, 130 years of tradition and all. and i'm not so sure it should. relics can be cherished 'once upon a time' things. nothing wrong with that. even i'm a 'relic' of a sort -- a relic of the 50's.

 

hal and their parent ccl will have to figure out all of this. far be it from me to speculate on 'solutions', if that is the right term. but i don't see a simple answer -- either in larger ships, or more exclusive ships, or even smaller, yacht-like wannabes. i see the answer in defining the UNIQUE experience that CAN be hal. and going there. why not be 'holland america' again from dutch toiletries, to dutch night, to menus, and on and on. maybe heritage does matter to some, i don't know.

 

now, flame away. i can take it, and i hope you all -- and myself -- cruise happily on hal until we are deposited at sea somewhere in the south pacific.

 

dr. dawg, aka fr. doug

[blueboro]

 

It is quite possible HAL will still go bigger and find new ways to nickle and dime people like the Celebrity Solstice class .

 

Have you been on a Solstice class ship? I have been on 2 and they do not nickle and dime you any more than HAL. Drink prices are very similar. Both lines have extra tariff restaurants, extra cost speciality coffees, etc. HAL actually added cabanas on ships before X. I have never paid for an activity on board X other than a wine tasting which is not free on HAL. I would greatly prefer a line to keep the cruise price lower and let ME decide if I want to add additional services for an additional cost.

[Steve Q]

I agree. I have also sailed on two Solstice Class ships. There are few extra charges for anything. Announcements are also made once daily. There are charges for premium restaurants, but they are optional. We ate at Tuscan Grill on our last cruise, and it honestly was far superior to Pinnacle Grill.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

We are all doing lots of speculated based many of our wants of a cruise line but the big question is where does HAL want the future of HAL to go and what cruise line do they want to Emulate. I see only one and that is Celebrity. For years HAL and Celebrity were considered basically the only two Premium Products so you had a CCL Corp PRemium Line and you had a RCI Corp. Now I have heard many times that Princes is recently trying to boast they too are a Premium Line. I personally do not see it but with the NEW Royal coming out they make actually achieve that. But for Princess to be considered Premium they will need to make some change to their cabin amenities and over all dining qualty. HAL and Celebrity still excell in those areas.

Right now Holland America is standing still and being left in the dust. I truly believe HAL's still wants to compete with Celebrity and I beleive that CCL Corp wants HAL to compete with Celebrity to do this they will have come up with some bigger and better than Solstice Class Ships. When I say bigger I do not mean bigger than Solstice but bigger than they have now.

Now going back to Sail's original question if HAL does this what do you see them changing on this new innovative ship? What can they do that is totally unexpected and amazing but yet realistic with out copying the things that Celebrity has done and the new things that NCL has done and is bringing out with the new Breakaway?

[sail7seas]

i know i'll be 'blasted' by some of you. but it saddens me to say that, like many others, i see hal's decline over the years, and i hear or read so many 'once upon a time' comments. this is not good. hal seems reactive rather than proactive, and that is death in these times. yes, for instance, i see the replacement of fresh flowers with fake ones, but that is only a symptom of the disease. staff cuts and slower times and decreased food quality in the mdr -- only symptoms. toilet problems, a/c and heating issues -- only symptoms. and on and on -- but symptoms add up.

 

my fear is, like one poster said, carnival corp. will simply 'milk' hal until they cannot afford to carry the brand anymore, and just let it die or be merged with, let's say, princess. or, worse, costa. it happens all the time in other businesses. look at banks, department stores, grocery store brands, etc. and who subsumes them all -- the wal-marts of the world. because they make money -- that is money.

 

like it or not, true or not, hal seems to cater to lots of seniors; retirees or near-retirees. i don't see their 'reachout' to younger folks working much, so far. despite brochure models, and so forth. now, i am a senior citizen -- read 68, read OLD -- and i don't get around like i used to. lots of back, leg, and other issues. hal is just right for me. but i won't be around long and able to cruise. hal is soon going to lose my business, if it hasn't already. i suspect i'm not alone. what then for hal?

 

i'm not sure hal can 're-invent' its self. i know, 130 years of tradition and all. and i'm not so sure it should. relics can be cherished 'once upon a time' things. nothing wrong with that. even i'm a 'relic' of a sort -- a relic of the 50's.

 

hal and their parent ccl will have to figure out all of this. far be it from me to speculate on 'solutions', if that is the right term. but i don't see a simple answer -- either in larger ships, or more exclusive ships, or even smaller, yacht-like wannabes. i see the answer in defining the UNIQUE experience that CAN be hal. and going there. why not be 'holland america' again from dutch toiletries, to dutch night, to menus, and on and on. maybe heritage does matter to some, i don't know.

 

now, flame away. i can take it, and i hope you all -- and myself -- cruise happily on hal until we are deposited at sea somewhere in the south pacific.

 

dr. dawg, aka fr. doug

 

Very interesting and I see no reason to 'blast you' as you say. It is your opinion and some could see the reasoning. It is not off the wall gibberish but I had a Eureka moment reading it......... :)

 

 

I'M NOT GOING TO WORRY ABOUT IT.

 

We are going to continue booking our HAL cruises, cruise the ships we love with the crew/Officers and staff that have always drawn us back to HAL. We love the ships and if the day comes we no longer love them as much or even enough, then we will make whatever choices we deem best for us.

 

For now, DH is sitting in our yard, the sun is shining and he is leafing through the brochures I handed him to choose which will be our next bookings. We already have about 5 and that is simply not enough for us...... :D ;)

 

 

Only one quibble I do have with your post........ Please don't choose we all have to be deposited in the South Pacific when we take our final sail into eternity. I want to sail in the waters of the Caribbean or Mediterranean. Okay? Can we make that choice? :D Thanks. ;)

[world~citizen]

...We already have about 5 and that is simply not enough for us...... :D ;)

 

 

There are worse things to be addicted to.:D

 

With me its peanut butter cookies.

 

Smooth sailing...

[sail7seas]

Have you been on a Solstice class ship? I have been on 2 and they do not nickle and dime you any more than HAL. Drink prices are very similar. Both lines have extra tariff restaurants, extra cost speciality coffees, etc. HAL actually added cabanas on ships before X. I have never paid for an activity on board X other than a wine tasting which is not free on HAL. I would greatly prefer a line to keep the cruise price lower and let ME decide if I want to add additional services for an additional cost.

 

 

Four Star Mariners on HAL are invited to a complimentary winetasting on every cruise. That's a nice feature. :)

 

[crzr]

"If you were to hear HAL was getting ready to announce a new ship (strictly hypothetical situation on my part)..."

 

Actually, this is not so hypothetical. I heard on our most recent voyage (about 3 weeks ago) from our Captain that Carnival Corporation (HAL's parent company) is indeed thinking about ordering some more ships. I understand that their motivation is to lock into today's low interest rates, under the theory that they will expand their fleets someday anyhow. Further, the rumor in Seattle is that HAL will get at least one of these hulls, so they are doing exploratory planning now to answer this very question.

 

Expect Carnival to announce this fall whether they will in fact place an order, and if so, how they will allocate the hulls among their various fleets.

 

 

 

[sail7seas]

 

<snip>

 

 

question if HAL does this what do you see them changing on this new innovative ship? What can they do that is totally unexpected and amazing but yet realistic with out copying the things that Celebrity has done and the new things that NCL has done and is bringing out with the new Breakaway?

 

What a great question.....

 

Let's help the decision makers at HAL and give them ideas we think will make them the 'leader'. Can't be something as big as introducing Lido concept was to the industry but HAL gets the credit for that!!

 

HAL also was/is the leader in wrap around Promendades. To me, those two things are biggies.

 

They are positioned now to need another 'biggie' IMO

 

Here are some 'Is it Realistic' questions; can they do it? Is it economically possible?

 

In the way they sail to Bermuda and stay for several nights before sailing back to NY, can they do that elsewhere? If they sailed from San Juan, could they overnight in Curacao one night, Aurba one night and perhaps Bonaire. The Dutch islands have been known to permit them to open casino while in port. IF they would permit it in exchange for all the revenue guests would bring to their islands, what do you think?

 

Entertainment seems to be often complained about. We don't go to shows so for us, it is low on my list of important but I fully appreciate many others care. How about flying some 'names' to the ships for one or two shows each cruise? Different people, of course, as scheduling permits but some people of real talent and name recognition. Some talent perhaps off the height of their game but still entertaining and producing a good performance.

 

Seriously consider changing how dining is done on a ship. This would be a drastic revision and some may be resistent but if presented in realistic way, perhaps many could be persuaded. Maybe it is time to do away with the expected four or five course dinners. Do majority of people really want that much food; that long and formal a meal? Maybe more people than we recognize would be happy to have all casual dining in MDR. I don't mean only dress but also include menu choices, length of sit down time, and less traditional format. Maybe it is time for MDR to be 'coffee shop' type menus and those who want the more refined, traditional, leisurely dining would opt for alternative restaurants?

Drastic change, I know, but maybe there truly is a market for it even among the senior group and possibly the young families HAL needs to attract in order to accomodate their next generation of cruisers.

 

For those who have been here for a while, our former poster, Kyros, may she rest in peace, was a very creative thinker. I so wish she was among us to offer ideas. I know she would contribute some things to think about.

 

The decision makers and marketing folks and thinkers at HAL are probably shaking their head in dismay at our 'arrogance' (?) in thinking we know anything about how to run a cruise line. I, for one, fully admit I have no talent, education or experience aside from being a frequent cruiser which would make me qualified but it's speculative and fun to make off the wall suggestions. :D

 

[3rdGenCunarder]

Four Star Mariners on HAL are invited to a complimentary winetasting on every cruise. That's a nice feature. :)

 

 

Are the winetastings good? The World Club winetasting on Cunard isn't worth the time it takes up in the day (and it's comp for diamond WC members). I am NOT a wine snob/expert/geek/whatever by any means, but it's just sort of offhand and the wines weren't terribly interesting.

[kazu]

 

Right now Holland America is standing still and being left in the dust. I truly believe HAL's still wants to compete with Celebrity and I beleive that CCL Corp wants HAL to compete with Celebrity to do this they will have come up with some bigger and better than Solstice Class Ships. When I say bigger I do not mean bigger than Solstice but bigger than they have now.

 

Now going back to Sail's original question if HAL does this what do you see them changing on this new innovative ship? What can they do that is totally unexpected and amazing but yet realistic with out copying the things that Celebrity has done and the new things that NCL has done and is bringing out with the new Breakaway?

 

How about going back to being what HAL is all about - oodles of fresh flowers, understated elegance and a small ship that people will want to sail that can command prices.

 

Definitely a Tamarind instead of a Canaletto off the Lido (if space is a necessity).

 

How about a real welcome when you come onboard where you are escorted to your stateroom and your bags are carried? (first impressions mean a lot)

 

How about - having ipod docks in the rooms?

 

I better stop my how abouts - I doubt any of them will happen anyways;)

[sail7seas]

Are the winetastings good? The World Club winetasting on Cunard isn't worth the time it takes up in the day (and it's comp for diamond WC members). I am NOT a wine snob/expert/geek/whatever by any means, but it's just sort of offhand and the wines weren't terribly interesting.

 

 

Good is relative to each of us. :)

I imagine each Sommelier is of different style and knowledge. They surely have a given budget but depending upon their stock on hand, there has to be leeway in their choice of which wines to offer. Maybe I really like the Rioja but someone else would have preferred a Chianti, for example.

 

I have no clue how good they are as we have never attended. We have been invited every cruise since the Star Mariner Program began but we don't go. :shrug:

 

[3rdGenCunarder]

What a great question.....

 

<snip>

 

 

In the way they sail to Bermuda and stay for several nights before sailing back to NY, can they do that elsewhere? If they sailed from San Juan, could they overnight in Curacao one night, Aurba one night and perhaps Bonaire. The Dutch islands have been known to permit them to open casino while in port. IF they would permit it in exchange for all the revenue guests would bring to their islands, what do you think?

[end quote]

 

I think this would be great. It might not appeal to those who think more ports = greater value as opposed to more TIME in fewer ports, which I think i would like. They'd have to choose ports that could handle the extra people in venues with nighttime activities, and ports where people would feel comfortable/safe going off the ship at night. But this could have some marketing value--"Don't feel rushed in port! We give you all night to enjoy xxx!"

 

<snip>

 

Seriously consider changing how dining is done on a ship. This would be a drastic revision and some may be resistent but if presented in realistic way, perhaps many could be persuaded. Maybe it is time to do away with the expected four or five course dinners. Do majority of people really want that much food; that long and formal a meal? Maybe more people than we recognize would be happy to have all casual dining in MDR. I don't mean only dress but also include menu choices, length of sit down time, and less traditional format. Maybe it is time for MDR to be 'coffee shop' type menus and those who want the more refined, traditional, leisurely dining would opt for alternative restaurants?

Drastic change, I know, but maybe there truly is a market for it even among the senior group and possibly the young families HAL needs to attract in order to accomodate their next generation of cruisers.

 

<snip>

 

 

This idea opens a HUGE can of worms. How do you consider the difference in cost/perceived value between coffee shop and dining room? Is coffee shop the basic level will all the more formal dining venues requiring an extra fee? That will bring out the nickel and diming complaints.

 

If it's a matter of two dining rooms for different tastes (no difference in charge), how will they handle passengers who want one and get the other?. I am not a happy camper when I have to do open dining, but at least it's the same dining room and the same food. I would be VERY unhappy if I got "coffee shop" when I wanted MDR. Perhaps they could test this by offering table service at the Lido--maybe one side "coffee shop" with table service and the other side same as it is now, MDR food, self-serve.

[3rdGenCunarder]

How about going back to being what HAL is all about - oodles of fresh flowers, understated elegance and a small ship that people will want to sail that can command prices.

 

Definitely a Tamarind instead of a Canaletto off the Lido (if space is a necessity).

 

How about a real welcome when you come onboard where you are escorted to your stateroom and your bags are carried? (first impressions mean a lot)

 

How about - having ipod docks in the rooms?

 

I better stop my how abouts - I doubt any of them will happen anyways;)

 

Nice, but HAL needs something big that they can use as a marketing tool.

 

On QE2, you were greeted and walked to your cabin, even if you were in steerage. It was a lovely throwback to the "golden era" of sailing. But this takes staff. They used mostly dining room staff, which was funny because they didn't normally spend time in the passenger cabin areas, so they didn't know their way around. (And lower pax decks on QE2 were like rabbit warrens). Twice, our "escort" was very new to the ship and had NO idea where to go, and we had to show him the way to our cabin. (But he did carry our carry-ons for us)

[sail7seas]

How about going back to being what HAL is all about - oodles of fresh flowers, understated elegance and a small ship that people will want to sail that can command prices.

 

Definitely a Tamarind instead of a Canaletto off the Lido (if space is a necessity).

 

How about a real welcome when you come onboard where you are escorted to your stateroom and your bags are carried? (first impressions mean a lot)

 

How about - having ipod docks in the rooms?

 

I better stop my how abouts - I doubt any of them will happen anyways;)

 

 

While I never thought I would say so, the larger ships are truly growing on us. We will always love Maasdam and there are few more loyal to her than us but there is a lot to be said for the experience we have had on the larger ships.

 

We've had outstanding cruises, really wonderful, on Noordam :), Westerdam, Eurodam and just recently on Oosterdam. It has been so many years since our five cruises on Zuiderdam, I'm not qualified to comment as to current experience. We must have liked her fine if we have five cruises on her.

 

We were amazed how much we enjoyed Eurodam as we definitely did not expect to. I'm eager to sail her again. Not so much Nieuw Amsterdam and I'm really not sure why but she was our least favorite of all our recent cruises. Nothing really wrong with her just didn't do anything for us. The Signature sisters are as large as we think we want to go but then again, we never thought we'd like that big so....

 

I am not one who is going to vote for smaller ships. :o

"S" class is as small as we want to go, I think.

We have sailed all HAL ships except for Prinsendam and if the opportunity arises with an itinerary/date that suits us, we shall sail her first chance.... more to complete the fleet than much else. :)

 

 

 

 

=3rdGenCunarder;

This idea opens a HUGE can of worms. How do you consider the difference in cost/perceived value between coffee shop and dining room? Is coffee shop the basic level will all the more formal dining venues requiring an extra fee? That will bring out the nickel and diming complaints.

 

If it's a matter of two dining rooms for different tastes (no difference in charge), how will they handle passengers who want one and get the other?. I am not a happy camper when I have to do open dining, but at least it's the same dining room and the same food. I would be VERY unhappy if I got "coffee shop" when I wanted MDR. Perhaps they could test this by offering table service at the Lido--maybe one side "coffee shop" with table service and the other side same as it is now, MDR food, self-serve.

 

 

Yes, for sure........... that idea will bring out all sorts of resistance and I understand that. It is just an idea I felt like tossing out there to see if anyone felt like talking about it.

 

I'm not exactly sure how I myself feel about it but I'm not totally opposed to the notion of pursuing the possibility it could work out if done well.

[PathfinderEss]

While I never thought I would say so, the larger ships are truly growing on us. We will always love Maasdam and there are few more loyal to her than us but there is a lot to be said for the experience we have had on the larger ships.

 

We've had outstanding cruises, really wonderful, on Noordam :), Westerdam, Eurodam and just recently on Oosterdam. It has been so many years since our five cruises on Zuiderdam, I'm not qualified to comment as to current experience. We must have liked her fine if we have five cruises on her.

 

We were amazed how much we enjoyed Eurodam as we definitely did not expect to. I'm eager to sail her again. Not so much Nieuw Amsterdam and I'm really not sure why but she was our least favorite of all our recent cruises. Nothing really wrong with her just didn't do anything for us. The Signature sisters are as large as we think we want to go but then again, we never thought we'd like that big so....

 

I am not one who is going to vote for smaller ships. :o

"S" class is as small as we want to go, I think.

We have sailed all HAL ships except for Prinsendam and if the opportunity arises with an itinerary/date that suits us, we shall sail her first chance.... more to complete the fleet than much else. :)

I agree Sails, I too love the smaller ships, The Ryndam, Maasdam, and the Statendam and did not think I would like the Vista class. Now I love the Vista class so my guess is if Hal comes out with an even bigger ships I will like them too. (as long as it is not the Allure or Oasis)

[Typhoon1]

I never considered the possibility of HAL purchasing an existing ship from another cruise line but sure, that could happen.

 

 

Didn't someone mention the Costa Concordia was for sale?

[cavecreekguy]

...Entertainment seems to be often complained about. We don't go to shows so for us, it is low on my list of important but I fully appreciate many others care. How about flying some 'names' to the ships for one or two shows each cruise? Different people, of course, as scheduling permits but some people of real talent and name recognition. Some talent perhaps off the height of their game but still entertaining and producing a good performance...

 

Personally, I am always hoping to see Charro on a cruise. Cuchi cuchi!

[mariner]

She was at the St Regis in NYC in July.

 

Boy, EURODAM was just a great choice for a name. Can't want to see how HAL gets around that one.