Underage Drinking Onboard

[Westtxgal]

I know that the drinking age on Carnival's ships is 21, but I'm unclear as to what actual laws they have to follow... If a 17 year old is served alcohol, is that against the law or just against Carnival's policy? What laws apply? The laws of the country the ship left from? The laws of the country who's flag the ship displays? (I've read both of those answers while googling this question but I am still unsure what the answer is). Thanks in advance for your help!

[Geezers]

I know that the drinking age on Carnival's ships is 21, but I'm unclear as to what actual laws they have to follow... If a 17 year old is served alcohol, is that against the law or just against Carnival's policy? What laws apply? The laws of the country the ship left from? The laws of the country who's flag the ship displays? (I've read both of those answers while googling this question but I am still unsure what the answer is). Thanks in advance for your help!

 

Since you know the drinking age on Carnival is 21 that should be the end of it unless you are trying to find a way around it. Carnival has the right to remove you from the ship (without a refund or transportation ) if you won't follow the age limit.

[mousey]

I don't know for sure but I believe it is Carnival's own policy. Even though I don't condone it, it has been my experience that teens get their booze from older kids. For example, I know my then 16 yr-old DS got booze from a 22-yr old woman. Older girls get booze for younger guys but older guys do not usually get booze for under-aged girls (so I'm told). Older boys get booze for younger boys who share it with girls their age. Also, on some of the islands that Carnival sails to, 16 yr.-olds can get booze anytime. I just sailed with the DS now (17) and his BF (18) they were served beer in Freeport and didn't have to show ID. The DS lost a week's worth of allowance money when he got back home. They were also offered booze by both older guys and girls on the ship. The 18 yr.-old was sold two bottles of airplane-sized bottles of vodka by the Carnival store in Grand Turk. Kids can get booze if they want to. They are very inventive. That's why you have to keep both your eyes on them and always have an extra key to their cabin. I find all sorts of interesting stuff when I go in there while they're away. I tell them ahead of time that they will not have 100% privacy and yet they still leave evidence around! That's kids for ya! I don't condone underage drinking but I didn't freak out either when the boys drank and I found the bottles of vodka sitting next to the BF's hat. I just waited until we got home and hit my DS where it hurt...his ears (lecture) and hand (which he puts out for his well-earned allowance every week).

[Westtxgal]

Geezers: Quite the contrary. I am not trying to get around the policy/law. I'm simply trying to determine if they are breaking the law by serving alcohol to a 17 year old. And I believe that if they are able to remove a passenger who disobeys the drinking age requirement, they should also remove employees who serve kids who are not old enough to drink. I guess it doesn't work both ways, though.

 

Thanks, Mousey for your response. I appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts with me! And I agree... kids can and will find ways around the rules. And I can absolutely understand that (don't like it either but understand it). What I have an issue with is when the Carnival employees are serving kids who are VERY CLEARLY not even 18, let alone 21. I think they should be held liable just like they would be in a bar in the US, assuming that is the law they follow... That's what I can't seem to figure out.

[jkneern]

Carnival is age 21. On NCL you can drink at age 18 with parental consent.

[loxley]

Geezers: Quite the contrary. I am not trying to get around the policy/law. I'm simply trying to determine if they are breaking the law by serving alcohol to a 17 year old. And I believe that if they are able to remove a passenger who disobeys the drinking age requirement, they should also remove employees who serve kids who are not old enough to drink. I guess it doesn't work both ways, though.

 

Thanks, Mousey for your response. I appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts with me! And I agree... kids can and will find ways around the rules. And I can absolutely understand that (don't like it either but understand it). What I have an issue with is when the Carnival employees are serving kids who are VERY CLEARLY not even 18, let alone 21. I think they should be held liable just like they would be in a bar in the US, assuming that is the law they follow... That's what I can't seem to figure out.

 

Where are you seeing all this alcohol serving to under 18's? Who is paying?

[Simplertimes]

The only way someone under 21 is getting alcohol on the ship is if someone else is buying. They cannot use their S & S card, because it will get rejected to purchase alcohol.

 

Other than the ports, the only times I've seen underage drinking on the ships is when the parents buy the drinks for their kids.

[ronrythm]

There are a lot of things involved.

From the port to the maritime limit (normally between 3 and 12 miles out to sea) the laws of nation/state you're leaving apply. This is why ships leaving from Galeston may have different rules for the first few hours of the sailing.

After the 12 mile limit the ship is under the laws of the nation it is registered to. Actually you're under these for the whole voyage, but at ports, the host countries laws are superimposed on top. Note that the laws of nation the ship's registry may or may not be exactly the same as if you are in the country itself, especially things like liquor laws.

Last but not least, you are always under the laws of your home country, as every country has the right to regulate its' own citizens. If a U.S. citizen commits a murder on a Panamanian registered vessel in the Indian ocean, the citizen can be brought to trial in a U.S. Federal Court.

This is a very simplified view and I''m sure someone else will point out the inaccuracies, but it gets you started in the right direction.

Enjoy

Ron

[ray98]

Yup....they are not buying it them self. A S&S card for someone under 21 will not allow an alcoholic charge, it is locked out in the computer system.

[T. Advisor King]

Funny how there was really only one bona fide attempt to answer your question, which I think is valid. I think this mainly comes from the perspective that US law is generally uniform and is the "right" law, so if you were complying with other laws that are different, it isn't "right". Even describing this as an issue of "underage" shows an inherent bias.

 

I appreciated ronr's response in particular. I generally agree with the conclusions, However, I question the comment "you are always under the laws of your home country". While I think the murder example cited is probably accurate, I don't think it extends to things like liquor control. An American student living in Germany who goes to a football game and orders, pays for and consumes a beer at age 17 isn't breaking the law in Germany and isn't subject to US law on that matter.

 

Similarly, a US passenger on a Carnival ship in international waters isn't breaking the law by drinking at 18. A 19 year old US passenger on a Carnival ship in a Canadian port is not breaking Canadian law by drinking. The passenger is almost certainly in breach of contract with Carnival and is laible to be put off the ship. But that passenger couldn't be charged with a liquor offence.

 

I'm interested in differeing views on this point. However, when I travel internationally with my teenagers, I expect them to follow local law and custom and I encourage them to do so. If the local drinking age is 21 (which it is almost nowhere in the world outside the US -- look up the drinking age page on Wikipedia), then that is the law I expect them to follow. If the local drinking age for beer or wine is 16 (ever flown Luftansan?), they they are welcome to order.

 

I don't view it as a matter of "right" or "wrong" -- particularly "wrong" from the context of US law. It is just a matter of "different". I do however find it common that posters will post comments that effectively assert the position that the standard US drinking age of 21 is the "real" or "right" age and any lower international drinking age is wrong or morally invalid.

[alreadypacked]

The only way someone under 21 is getting alcohol on the ship is if someone else is buying. They cannot use their S & S card, because it will get rejected to purchase alcohol.

 

Other than the ports, the only times I've seen underage drinking on the ships is when the parents buy the drinks for their kids.

 

I witnessed underage drinking on a cruise once on the Victory in 2007 in the Piano Bar. They were clearly being served, but no adults were with them. Not sure how they were doing it--maybe they swiped their parent's sail and sign card while they were sleeping?

 

I reference it in my review back then:

http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=40904

[k2excursion]

Funny how there was really only one bona fide attempt to answer your question, which I think is valid. I think this mainly comes from the perspective that US law is generally uniform and is the "right" law, so if you were complying with other laws that are different, it isn't "right". Even describing this as an issue of "underage" shows an inherent bias.

 

I appreciated ronr's response in particular. I generally agree with the conclusions, However, I question the comment "you are always under the laws of your home country". While I think the murder example cited is probably accurate, I don't think it extends to things like liquor control. An American student living in Germany who goes to a football game and orders, pays for and consumes a beer at age 17 isn't breaking the law in Germany and isn't subject to US law on that matter.

 

Similarly, a US passenger on a Carnival ship in international waters isn't breaking the law by drinking at 18. A 19 year old US passenger on a Carnival ship in a Canadian port is not breaking Canadian law by drinking. The passenger is almost certainly in breach of contract with Carnival and is laible to be put off the ship. But that passenger couldn't be charged with a liquor offence.

 

I'm interested in differeing views on this point. However, when I travel internationally with my teenagers, I expect them to follow local law and custom and I encourage them to do so. If the local drinking age is 21 (which it is almost nowhere in the world outside the US -- look up the drinking age page on Wikipedia), then that is the law I expect them to follow. If the local drinking age for beer or wine is 16 (ever flown Luftansan?), they they are welcome to order.

 

I don't view it as a matter of "right" or "wrong" -- particularly "wrong" from the context of US law. It is just a matter of "different". I do however find it common that posters will post comments that effectively assert the position that the standard US drinking age of 21 is the "real" or "right" age and any lower international drinking age is wrong or morally invalid.

 

Excellent response! Very well put!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

For those wondering, while someone under 21 cannot purchase an alcoholic beverage on a Carnival ship, there is the past guest party and the extinct farewell party or Captains cocktail party. At those, they don't check the sail & sign card. They just hand you drinks. Some people say that I still look under 21, and I certainly looked under 21 at my first party with these free drinks on Carnival. And I was not asked to show ID. I was old enough, but I didn't look it.

[ronrythm]

Funny how there was really only one bona fide attempt to answer your question, which I think is valid. I think this mainly comes from the perspective that US law is generally uniform and is the "right" law, so if you were complying with other laws that are different, it isn't "right". Even describing this as an issue of "underage" shows an inherent bias.

 

I appreciated ronr's response in particular. I generally agree with the conclusions, However, I question the comment "you are always under the laws of your home country". While I think the murder example cited is probably accurate, I don't think it extends to things like liquor control. An American student living in Germany who goes to a football game and orders, pays for and consumes a beer at age 17 isn't breaking the law in Germany and isn't subject to US law on that matter.

 

Similarly, a US passenger on a Carnival ship in international waters isn't breaking the law by drinking at 18. A 19 year old US passenger on a Carnival ship in a Canadian port is not breaking Canadian law by drinking. The passenger is almost certainly in breach of contract with Carnival and is laible to be put off the ship. But that passenger couldn't be charged with a liquor offence.

 

I'm interested in differeing views on this point. However, when I travel internationally with my teenagers, I expect them to follow local law and custom and I encourage them to do so. If the local drinking age is 21 (which it is almost nowhere in the world outside the US -- look up the drinking age page on Wikipedia), then that is the law I expect them to follow. If the local drinking age for beer or wine is 16 (ever flown Luftansan?), they they are welcome to order.

 

I don't view it as a matter of "right" or "wrong" -- particularly "wrong" from the context of US law. It is just a matter of "different". I do however find it common that posters will post comments that effectively assert the position that the standard US drinking age of 21 is the "real" or "right" age and any lower international drinking age is wrong or morally invalid.

On the matter of drinking age, there is no US Federal law on drinking age, so there is nothing to enforce. Only laws that are set by the Federal govt. are what I'm discussing. Drinking age laws are all set by the individual states, and so only enforceable in their territories. Of course, the Federal govt. "encourages" the states to make the drinking age at least 21 by tying Federal aid for highway construction to it, but it is the states who set the actual age.

There are some very narrow conditions where state laws have been enforced internationally, but that's getting way beyond a message board.:D

Enjoy

Ron

[Guest LoveMyBoxer]

I thought I had read on John Heald's FB page that ships sailing from Australia will follow that country's drinking age which is below 21. Some asked if they can do that for Australia then why not for whips sailing from other countries like in Europe.

[glorialagos]

Excellent response! Very well put!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

For those wondering, while someone under 21 cannot purchase an alcoholic beverage on a Carnival ship, there is the past guest party and the extinct farewell party or Captains cocktail party. At those, they don't check the sail & sign card. They just hand you drinks. Some people say that I still look under 21, and I certainly looked under 21 at my first party with these free drinks on Carnival. And I was not asked to show ID. I was old enough, but I didn't look it.

 

 

They most definitely do ask for a sail and sign card if you look under 21. At the last past guest party we went to, my 19 year old and 18 year old were asked and then were politely served non alcoholic fruit punch. A friend with them showed a fake id, not an s&s card, and was able to get some drinks from some of the workers but others would not serve him. He was even asked by security to stop (as he went from waiter to waiter trying to get served, sometimes with success). So they definitely checked and I was glad they did.

 

Kids were able to get alcohol easily by others 21 and over. But, as others have said, they could never purchase it on their own with their own card.

[Valmcp]

I go by the drinking rules in my home even when we travel. If you are under 21 ,you don't drink. Kids that don't drink here in the US don't need to drink abroad. Just because it's "legal" in another country is no reason for me to relax my rules.

[k2excursion]

They most definitely do ask for a sail and sign card if you look under 21. At the last past guest party we went to, my 19 year old and 18 year old were asked and then were politely served non alcoholic fruit punch. A friend with them showed a fake id, not an s&s card, and was able to get some drinks from some of the workers but others would not serve him. He was even asked by security to stop (as he went from waiter to waiter trying to get served, sometimes with success). So they definitely checked and I was glad they did.

 

Kids were able to get alcohol easily by others 21 and over. But, as others have said, they could never purchase it on their own with their own card.

 

I didn't mean to say that they would never check to verify age no matter what. I only meant that they are not required to. So even someone like me who looked about 16 at the time can be served alcohol at those parties without their age being verified. They should verify, and will sometimes, but maybe not. They could serve alcohol directly to under-21s there. I think what the OP was kind of getting at was something like this: If I were actually about 16 at the time and I was served alcohol at the party, and then my parents get mad and want to press charges, do they have a case, since we were in international waters? I know some people will want to respond with "Why weren't the parents watching their teenager at a party like that?" Please don't respond with that. This is only hypothetical, and it wouldn't answer the question.

[ibcnusoon]

Yup....they are not buying it them self. A S&S card for someone under 21 will not allow an alcoholic charge, it is locked out in the computer system.

 

Not only that, but there are pictures associated with your sign and sail card. I went with DD to the sports bar for a bucket of beer and watch an NFL game (she was to be 21 two weeks after our cruise). We sat down at the table with the beers, then moved to the bar when space opened. Once at the bar, I ordered another bucket and the bartender flagged her, saying she wasn't 21 years old. When he swiped my card for the purchase, I guess he looked her up and noticed it.

 

My problem with Carnival is if you are going to make drinking 21, why not gambling too, since gambling is 21 years of age in mostly all US states.

[meatloafsfan]

I go by the drinking rules in my home even when we travel. If you are under 21 ,you don't drink. Kids that don't drink here in the US don't need to drink abroad. Just because it's "legal" in another country is no reason for me to relax my rules.

 

So, it's 19 to drink here in Ontario (my home) so does that mean that I can apply my rules to someone travelling with me who is between 19-20?

 

I really don't understand the US regulation about being 21 to drink. Either you're an adult or you're not - if you're legally responsible for yourself at age 18, why all this handholding about alcohol.

 

I mean, at age 18 in Florida you can purchase a rifle or a shotgun but not a beer.

[Herfnerd]

 

 

Last but not least, you are always under the laws of your home country, as every country has the right to regulate its' own citizens. If a U.S. citizen commits a murder on a Panamanian registered vessel in the Indian ocean, the citizen can be brought to trial in a U.S. Federal Court.

 

This is a very simplified view and I''m sure someone else will point out the inaccuracies, but it gets you started in the right direction.

Enjoy

Ron

 

Not sure I agree about the part that a country has the right to regulate its own citizens.

 

My understanding is that if a US Citizen commits murder in the territorial waters, the country that the crime was committed in has jurisdiction. If it is in International Waters, the jurisdiction falls under the Flag State of the ship - the country that the ship is registered under. But most countries would rather waive jurisdiction to the U.S. under the Active Nationality Principle as long as the victim isn't a foreign national, then the Passive Nationality Principle would allow the victim's country first dibs at jurisdiction. The US State Dept could also apply pressure to have the accused brought to trial in the US.

 

But.....I could be wrong and just making this all up....

[Westtxgal]

Thanks so much for the thoughtful responses. I really appreciate your time and genuine answers. I just got off a ship on Sunday and am still very upset about what happened so I was just trying to get a grasp of the situation. I was cruising with my 17 year old daughter and two 13 year olds. My 17 year old had graduated in June, a year early, and I booked this cruise to reward her. She has never been in any trouble... well, serious trouble... just typical teenage smart mouthing and stuff like that...

 

The first night on the ship, I was with the kids until midnight when they went to the room and I went to the casino. About an hour and a half later I went back to my room to find my 17 year old (who barely looks 17 due to some health problems... she's very small for her age), half on the bed, half on the coffee table, in a pool of vomit and unconscious. I thought she was dead... I started shaking her and yelling her name. She started to cry and in a very weak voice asked me what was happening. She was very scared and kept asking me what happened and was she going to be okay. Then she would begin to vomit again... and then pass out... It was obvious she had been drinking... though I am not aware of her ever doing anything like this before.

 

I asked her where she had been and she was able to say the name of the club she had been in. I sat her up against the wall and got my 13 year old daughter to watch her as I ran downstairs to that club (it was directly below us, one deck down). At this point I was completely hysterical thinking she was either going to die of alcohol poisoning or had been drugged. I went to the guard who was at the door (supposedly carding people) and told him I needed medical attention in my room immediately and that my 17 year old had been in his club. He said there was no way she was in there but called for medical... I ran back to my room and she was vomiting again and my other daughter was now crying too. In my hysterical state, the thought finally occurred to me that I could use the phone rather than running for help... I grabbed the phone and called 911... I spoke with the nurse who, reluctantly, came to my room, along with security.

 

Long story short, she survived after a very, very frightening night for all of us. She would go in and out of consciousness and would randomly start crying and ask me to hold her hand... and if she was going to die... She would vomit repeatedly so I stayed up all night holding her up.

 

When she finally woke up later that morning, I asked her what had happened. She said she had seen in the daily schedule that there was an 18-20's meet and greet at the club and she thought it would be cool to go. She really didn't think they'd let her in but she wanted to try... and they did. No one asked her for her card. So she was dancing when a waitress brought her a shot of something and said someone had bought it for her (YES, A CARNIVAL WAITRESS)... that's all she remembers. She said things just got blurry and fuzzy... she vaguely remembered some guy walking up to her later and asking her if she needed help. She said yes and asked him to take her back to her room, which, gratefully he did. It was right after that that I walked in and found her.

 

We know that the Carnival guard allowed her to enter.. there were shots of her on the video they show all week dancing in that club... so they cannot deny that. And we know that the Carnival waitress gave her the first shot. What we do not know is if she drank more after that or if there was something in the shot that effected her. She cannot remember.

 

Now, before I get attacked, let me say that I know what my daughter did was wrong. And believe me, she spent the rest of the cruise under my nose regretting her decision.

 

There were so many other things that went wrong on this cruise as well... all those things together have me beyond upset. This was my 15th cruise and, at this point, I believe it will be my last. At least my last with Carnival... There were so many problems... I wrote everything down just as a therapy of sorts for myself and it was 7 typed pages long... single spaced... it was literally the week from he!!.... That was the only incident involving my kids or alcohol... the rest were just issues on the ship... bathroom flooding constantly, my bed was directly on top of the stage in the club and it was impossible to sleep due to the vibrations and noise all night, I had a very bad reaction to a teeth whitening procedure on the ship and still, three days later, cannot eat because my mouth hurts so bad... My gums look like I have some wicked disease.... I mean it was just one thing after another after another... I felt like the Griswolds on a cruise... Those were seriously just a few of the issues... But I'd be here all day writing them all. I know there are going to be trips that are better than others but this one took the cake... I don't ever want to try to top it!

 

Thanks again for all your responses. I guess I just need to take a few days to recover from my week... I know things could have been worse... But man, could things have been better!

[firefly333]

OP my sympathies. I can understand you would be terribly upset. There are posts all the time where adults are saying they think their kids should be allowed to drink. Your post is a good one showing why underage children should not be allowed. I can only imagine how scared you were for her. Carnival should not have let her into the club nor served her obviously.

[jonathansburden]

Wow! I'm so glad to hear your daughter is alright.... that story could have ended a lot differently. I'll bet she isn't going to be drinking again!

[Carolin]

I'm very sorry you went through so much. That being said...

 

Teeth whitening... I've said it and will repeat it until I'm blue in the face. NEVER EVER EVER have this done on the ship. Thank you OP for explaining this for others to take note of.

[Herfnerd]

Teeth whitening and the location of your cabin issues could have been avoided with a bit of research and not really Carnival's fault

 

HOWEVER - they TOTALLY dropped the ball as far as your what happend to your daughter is concerned! I would have been madder than a hornet had that happened to my son or daughter! Sorry you had to go thru this.....