Shame on HAL

[magandab]

On the last morning of our NZ cruise I was in the Neptune Lounge and a busboy from the Pinnacle Grille was there as well as Abegail, one of the concierges. They were talking about the upcoming dry dock and what would be done to the lounge. I mentioned, in conversation, that I guessed they wouldn't be making as much money. With a big smile, he responded "No, I won't get tips but I won't have to work as hard either."

 

Take it for what it's worth.

[BruceMuzz]

my understanding was that the income was tax free? one of the advantages ? anyways, no worries.

 

Most of the major cruise lines have as many as 60 to 90 nationalities working on a ship at any given time.

Trying to sort out the income tax laws and tax deductions from that many countries every month on a single ship would be a logistical nightmare.

 

Instead, the hiring agencies from most of those different countries are legally required receive a certain (large) percentage of each crewmember's salary directly from the cruise line. First the hiring agency typically plays a few games with the exchange rate to convert the salary to the local currency. This allottment, as it is called, is then registered with the local government, taxes are collected, and whatever is left over goes into the crewmember's bank account at home. Yes, most of us do pay taxes on our income.

[Hawaiidan]

The vast majority of workers on Holland America are form the Philappines.

 

Are we Ok with that?

 

And as stated buy many Holland America pays lets say $2000 month + tips.

 

The pay no US taxes, get room and board, medical, laundry. SO it with tips you can pretty much take all or most all to the bank...

 

But heck lets just for argument say they get no tips and only net $1000.00 USD a month...

 

How does that compare to working and buying power back home for their families, ? Lets see, Ok

 

In Manila a Carpenter or plumber, electiician skilled trades man earns 180 pp pesos a day That $3.60 usd a day !

A Highschool teacher makes about 9000 pesos a month.. Thats $180.00 US Dollars a month

An engineer or professional makes 24,000 pesos a month.. $480.00 US dollars

An annual.....Annual Family income average is $2000.00 USD a YEAR In Melaisia Its $5000 a year and Indonsesa its $8000.

 

:eek: Your tip on a 2 $10 drink $ $3.00 is equal to almost 7 hours of work as a Carpenter or plumber back home:rolleyes:

 

Lets say a cabin steward takes home a net of only $ 12,000.00 USD a year, are you all ok with that?

 

In the same period a High school teacher would have made $2160.00 USd

 

The steward made about $500% more than the teacher and if he cleared 2000 a month with tips...He made more than a Teacher could earn in 10 years....1100% more to be exact or 600% more than the average income for a family back home

 

Lets furthur put this in perspective, Say you earn $24,000 USD a year .

 

. In asia, thats the equal of haveing your earnings kicked to $120,000 a:D year ! Would you be ok pulling down $120 K a year and getting daily salary bonuses equal to a days pay...every day ! I would, where do I sign up....

 

Do you think a lot of folks pulling down over 120,000. a year are hurting and abused?

These figures by the way are from the US State Dept June 2012..;)

 

So put a band aid on that bleeding heart... The wages these folks make are double(2X) to quadripple ( 4x) what they could make as an Engineer or Professional back home and 11 times more than being a Teacher !

[Arwen]

The vast majority of workers on Holland America are form the Philappines.

 

Are we Ok with that?

 

And as stated buy many Holland America pays lets say $2000 month + tips.

 

The pay no US taxes, get room and board, medical, laundry. SO it with tips you can pretty much take all or most all to the bank...

 

But heck lets just for argument say they get no tips and only net $1000.00 USD a month...

 

How does that compare to working and buying power back home for their families, ? Lets see, Ok

 

In Manila a Carpenter or plumber, electiician skilled trades man earns 180 pp pesos a day That $3.60 usd a day !

A Highschool teacher makes about 9000 pesos a month.. Thats $180.00 US Dollars a month

An engineer or professional makes 24,000 pesos a month.. $480.00 US dollars

An annual.....Annual Family income average is $2000.00 USD a YEAR In Melaisia Its $5000 a year and Indonsesa its $8000.

 

:eek: Your tip on a 2 $10 drink $ $3.00 is equal to almost 7 hours of work as a Carpenter or plumber back home:rolleyes:

 

Lets say a cabin steward takes home a net of only $ 12,000.00 USD a year, are you all ok with that?

 

In the same period a High school teacher would have made $2160.00 USd

 

The steward made about $500% more than the teacher and if he cleared 2000 a month with tips...He made more than a Teacher could earn in 10 years....1100% more to be exact or 600% more than the average income for a family back home

 

Lets furthur put this in perspective, Say you earn $24,000 USD a year .

 

. In asia, thats the equal of haveing your earnings kicked to $120,000 a:D year ! Would you be ok pulling down $120 K a year and getting daily salary bonuses equal to a days pay...every day ! I would, where do I sign up....

 

Do you think a lot of folks pulling down over 120,000. a year are hurting and abused?

These figures by the way are from the US State Dept June 2012..;)

 

So put a band aid on that bleeding heart... The wages these folks make are double(2X) to quadripple ( 4x) what they could make as an Engineer or Professional back home and 11 times more than being a Teacher !

 

 

Excellent analysis. We tend to see things through our cost of living and not those of other countries. We have cruised a lot and in chatting with one of the HAL stewards found out that he was close to having enough money to buy a house back home. These folks certainly work very hard and long hours. The long hours bother me.....but we just came back from China and folks there work long hours as well. Our Chinese guide, Michael, who was with us off and on for eight days (pre-cruise Beijing and other cities tour) put in long hours and often was with us until 10 p.m. He worked very hard, but must be making good money because he told us that he owned a nice home and a car. Owning a car in China is VERY expensive (lots of taxes, tolls, govt regs, etc).

[sail7seas]

The vast majority of workers on Holland America are form the Philappines.

 

Are we Ok with that?

 

And as stated buy many Holland America pays lets say $2000 month + tips.

 

The pay no US taxes, get room and board, medical, laundry. SO it with tips you can pretty much take all or most all to the bank...

 

But heck lets just for argument say they get no tips and only net $1000.00 USD a month...

 

How does that compare to working and buying power back home for their families, ? Lets see, Ok

 

In Manila a Carpenter or plumber, electiician skilled trades man earns 180 pp pesos a day That $3.60 usd a day !

A Highschool teacher makes about 9000 pesos a month.. Thats $180.00 US Dollars a month

An engineer or professional makes 24,000 pesos a month.. $480.00 US dollars

An annual.....Annual Family income average is $2000.00 USD a YEAR In Melaisia Its $5000 a year and Indonsesa its $8000.

 

:eek: Your tip on a 2 $10 drink $ $3.00 is equal to almost 7 hours of work as a Carpenter or plumber back home:rolleyes:

 

Lets say a cabin steward takes home a net of only $ 12,000.00 USD a year, are you all ok with that?

 

In the same period a High school teacher would have made $2160.00 USd

 

The steward made about $500% more than the teacher and if he cleared 2000 a month with tips...He made more than a Teacher could earn in 10 years....1100% more to be exact or 600% more than the average income for a family back home

 

Lets furthur put this in perspective, Say you earn $24,000 USD a year .

 

. In asia, thats the equal of haveing your earnings kicked to $120,000 a:D year ! Would you be ok pulling down $120 K a year and getting daily salary bonuses equal to a days pay...every day ! I would, where do I sign up....

 

Do you think a lot of folks pulling down over 120,000. a year are hurting and abused?

These figures by the way are from the US State Dept June 2012..;)

 

So put a band aid on that bleeding heart... The wages these folks make are double(2X) to quadripple ( 4x) what they could make as an Engineer or Professional back home and 11 times more than being a Teacher !

 

 

The vast majority of workers on HAL ships are not from the Philipines.

 

Add in Indonesians and I can agree. Cabin stewards/housekeepers and dining stewards are Indonesian. Bar Department is mostly Filipino.

 

Don't forget the sailors.......

Don't forget the Chefs and Galley workers.........

 

[startwin]

This thread is like the energizer bunny.... it just keeps going and going and going. And all it is is personal opinions. For heaven's sakes give it up. No one forces the crew work there, and the fact that they keep returning would suggest they are fine with whatever their remuneration is.

 

Now can we make it stop?:(

[cruz chic]

 

Now can we make it stop?:(

Only if you and the others that are so offended by it will stop posting to it. If you are so offended, please stop reading and posting to it. Problem solved.

[Hawaiidan]

The vast majority of workers on HAL ships are not from the Philipines.

 

Add in Indonesians and I can agree. Cabin stewards/housekeepers and dining stewards are Indonesian. Bar Department is mostly Filipino.

 

Don't forget the sailors.......

Don't forget the Chefs and Galley workers.........

 

 

I ll add indonseans as cabin stewards and lets assume they clear $1600 a month with tips..Ok and it could be easily$ 2000 ( as most tip their stewards well..over and above the min).

The annual income for a family of 4 in Indonesia according to the US State dept in June is equal to $8,000.00 USD or $667 a month. On the ship your steward is thus earning 2.4 times ( 240%) more than back home

And in months he cleared $2000 he would be earning 3 times or 300% more.

 

Back to the $24,000 a year comparison. It is like you earning $58,000 to $ 72,000 a year.... Back in Hawaii, housekeeping staff make about $1800 to 2500 a month..and few get tips like on ships ( when was the last time you left a tip at the hotel or motel for the maid?

 

. Oh, they have to pay for their food. housing, medical, taxes that ship workers do not !

 

SO.... here you have foreign workers, in effect earning over twice what American workers get paid....;) back here in the states. actualy netting 4 to 5 times more due to the American counterparts having to pay for what others get included.

 

Deck sailors and engineers are paid very well and well above service staff

 

Far from shameful... I am somewhat envious of one guy earning 2 to 3 times what a entire family of 4 with both parents working !.;)

[startwin]

Only if you and the others that are so offended by it will stop posting to it. If you are so offended, please stop reading and posting to it. Problem solved.

 

So you mean it will stop if I stop posting to it? OK, we'll see.

[cruz chic]

So you mean it will stop if I stop posting to it? OK, we'll see.

No, everyone needs to quit. You must be able to understand how things work. Just because you and a couple others want it to end it doesn't mean it will. As far as I know the only one that can end a thread is a mod. If it bothers you why read it? Maybe it's just me but I have limited free time.

[cruz chic]

I ll add indonseans as cabin stewards and lets assume they clear $1600 a month with tips..Ok and it could be easily$ 2000 ( as most tip their stewards well..over and above the min).

The annual income for a family of 4 in Indonesia according to the US State dept in June is equal to $8,000.00 USD or $667 a month. On the ship your steward is thus earning 2.4 times ( 240%) more than back home

And in months he cleared $2000 he would be earning 3 times or 300% more.

 

Back to the $24,000 a year comparison. It is like you earning $58,000 to $ 72,000 a year.... Back in Hawaii, housekeeping staff make about $1800 to 2500 a month..and few get tips like on ships ( when was the last time you left a tip at the hotel or motel for the maid?

 

. Oh, they have to pay for their food. housing, medical, taxes that ship workers do not !

 

SO.... here you have foreign workers, in effect earning over twice what American workers get paid....;) back here in the states. actualy netting 4 to 5 times more due to the American counterparts having to pay for what others get included.

 

Deck sailors and engineers are paid very well and well above service staff

 

Far from shameful... I am somewhat envious of one guy earning 2 to 3 times what a entire family of 4 with both parents working !.;)

I tip hotel staff all the time:confused:.

[world~citizen]

The vast majority of workers on Holland America are form the Philappines.

 

Are we Ok with that?

 

And as stated buy many Holland America pays lets say $2000 month + tips.

 

The pay no US taxes, get room and board, medical, laundry. SO it with tips you can pretty much take all or most all to the bank...

 

But heck lets just for argument say they get no tips and only net $1000.00 USD a month...

 

How does that compare to working and buying power back home for their families, ? Lets see, Ok

 

In Manila a Carpenter or plumber, electiician skilled trades man earns 180 pp pesos a day That $3.60 usd a day !

A Highschool teacher makes about 9000 pesos a month.. Thats $180.00 US Dollars a month

An engineer or professional makes 24,000 pesos a month.. $480.00 US dollars

An annual.....Annual Family income average is $2000.00 USD a YEAR In Melaisia Its $5000 a year and Indonsesa its $8000.

 

:eek: Your tip on a 2 $10 drink $ $3.00 is equal to almost 7 hours of work as a Carpenter or plumber back home:rolleyes:

 

Lets say a cabin steward takes home a net of only $ 12,000.00 USD a year, are you all ok with that?

 

In the same period a High school teacher would have made $2160.00 USd

 

The steward made about $500% more than the teacher and if he cleared 2000 a month with tips...He made more than a Teacher could earn in 10 years....1100% more to be exact or 600% more than the average income for a family back home

 

Lets furthur put this in perspective, Say you earn $24,000 USD a year .

 

. In asia, thats the equal of haveing your earnings kicked to $120,000 a:D year ! Would you be ok pulling down $120 K a year and getting daily salary bonuses equal to a days pay...every day ! I would, where do I sign up....

 

Do you think a lot of folks pulling down over 120,000. a year are hurting and abused?

These figures by the way are from the US State Dept June 2012..;)

 

So put a band aid on that bleeding heart... The wages these folks make are double(2X) to quadripple ( 4x) what they could make as an Engineer or Professional back home and 11 times more than being a Teacher !

 

I just took a quick look at your numbers. Actually a teacher can make up to 8500USD plus benefits vacation and bonus.

 

When you say staff gets medical, does that mean they and their family are covered for heart surgery? What does "medical"really mean.

 

Once you break down the numbers to hourly pay after agents take their fees and currency exchanges are made and the tax man gets his share, I don't see HAL serving staff coming up the pampered class - though the argument is oft made.

 

As to the OP, the issue has pretty much been resolved.

[Bearnaise]

When you say staff gets medical, does that mean they and their family are covered for heart surgery? What does "medical"really mean.

For people from countries outside the U.S., it usually means the state pays for it and/or insurance and health care costs are far lower. Outside the U.S., health care costs are usually a non-issue.

[Bearnaise]

I tip hotel staff all the time:confused:.

So do I, except in places like Hawaii where the hotel usually tacks on a "resort fee" that specifically includes housekeeping gratuity. Are we to assume that, unlike on cruise ships, the gratuity doesn't really go to the housekeepers?

[lvz2cruz]

Our daughter has worked in Indonesia and she knows people there who go to college in hopes of getting a job on a cruise ship. The few who get hired are ecstatic.

I appreciate the wonderful service I get on HAL but do not feel sorry for the crew. They know there at many at home that wish they could have the job they are doing and they have a great earning opportunity.

Yes they are away from their family for long periods but so are our military--I would choose a cruise ship over the Middle East any day;).

While Hawaiidan posted salaries for teachers and the like, a main job throughout the islands of Indonesia and I would guess Philippines is fishing. It will make much less than the salaries he has quoted.

[world~citizen]

Yes they are away from their family for long periods but so are our military--I would choose a cruise ship over the Middle East any day;)./QUOTE]

 

People who work outside their country, and this varies from occupation to occupation, often receive special allowances for doing so, and it does not amount to chump change. They may vary according to the hardship nature of the new residence. Living in the kind of quarters ship staff live in would almost certainly qualify for the highest levels of hardship pay in many of these. On top of that they have subsidies for housing, benefits, and specified numbers of trips home according to the level of their hardship. Even members of the armed forces, if they work in Embassies or Consulates abroad (in many governments) are eligible for these benefits. The private sector is all across the board. In other words, living outside the country can be a real cash cow.

 

Comparing the situation of western employees working abroad to the situation of HAL servers is an apples and oranges exercise.

[world~citizen]

For people from countries outside the U.S., it usually means the state pays for it and/or insurance and health care costs are far lower. Outside the U.S., health care costs are usually a non-issue.

 

This is fair comment.

 

National health plans are notorious for not covering you when abroad, as the premium costs are geared to the cost of health care in their own country. I have always been curious what would happen if a crewman was stricken seriously ill or was seriously injured onboard near one of the more expensive nations respecting medical care such as the US. Bills can easily mount up to half a million dollars and I wonder if HAL offers protection in these situations.

[Bearnaise]

This is fair comment.

 

National health plans are notorious for not covering you when abroad, as the premium costs are geared to the cost of health care in their own country. I have always been curious what would happen if a crewman was stricken seriously ill or was seriously injured onboard near one of the more expensive nations respecting medical care such as the US. Bills can easily mount up to half a million dollars and I wonder if HAL offers protection in these situations.

In the U.S. the crewman would be given necessary treatment, but I imagine HAL, as the crewman's employer and sponsor, would ultimately be held liable for costs. Therefore, it likely insures against the risk.

[world~citizen]

In the U.S. the crewman would be given necessary treatment, but I imagine HAL, as the crewman's employer and sponsor, would ultimately be held liable for costs. Therefore, it likely insures against the risk.

 

I have to say I lived in the United States for 4 years. The stories that I have encountered respecting health care both verify and bely that observation.

 

The industry represents a confused labrinth for non Americans. This is not an ideological or philosophical observation, but a practical one in light of the observation that HAL provides health insurance/care.

 

I could be dead wrong, but I am skeptical that assistant waiters able seamen get millions of dollars of health coverage.

 

I hope my skepticism is unfounded.

[Hawaiidan]

I just took a quick look at your numbers. Actually a teacher can make up to 8500USD plus benefits vacation and bonus.

 

Thats Pesos in the PPH.. not US dollars

 

When you say staff gets medical, does that mean they and their family are covered for heart surgery? What does "medical"really mean.

 

Medical means care for illness, injury for the person envolved for the situation . Example a mexican drug runner was injured in the US and arrested, he got no cost medical It does not cover existing or elective care.

 

Once you break down the numbers to hourly pay after agents take their fees and currency exchanges are made and the tax man gets his share, I don't see HAL serving staff coming up the pampered class - though the argument is oft made.

 

What Tax ???..... they are tax exempt as overseas earning!

 

I bar waitress on the Volendam, several years ago that she was a teacher back home but she could make way more serving drinks

 

Many crew are, back home in their country, living a very up-scale life and people fight to get a job with ships.

 

As to the OP, the issue has pretty much been resolved.

 

Thats what The report from Dept of State June 2012 stated....might want to read it closely

[Hawaiidan]

Our daughter has worked in Indonesia and she knows people there who go to college in hopes of getting a job on a cruise ship. The few who get hired are ecstatic.

I appreciate the wonderful service I get on HAL but do not feel sorry for the crew. They know there at many at home that wish they could have the job they are doing and they have a great earning opportunity.

Yes they are away from their family for long periods but so are our military--I would choose a cruise ship over the Middle East any day;).

While Hawaiidan posted salaries for teachers and the like, a main job throughout the islands of Indonesia and I would guess Philippines is fishing. It will make much less than the salaries he has quoted.

 

Actualy the report I read from The US Govt listed farm workers at 130 pp Peso a day ( pp peso is worth 0.02 USD)... thats $ 2.60 a day or $0.43 per hour.

[world~citizen]

Thats what The report from Dept of State June 2012 stated....might want to read it closely

 

Sorry, my observations were correct.

 

Smooth sailing to you.

[BruceMuzz]

I have to say I lived in the United States for 4 years. The stories that I have encountered respecting health care both verify and bely that observation.

 

The industry represents a confused labrinth for non Americans. This is not an ideological or philosophical observation, but a practical one in light of the observation that HAL provides health insurance/care.

 

I could be dead wrong, but I am skeptical that assistant waiters able seamen get millions of dollars of health coverage.

 

I hope my skepticism is unfounded.

 

All the major cruise lines are self-insured for medical care. Considering all the different countries we visit and all the nationalities we employ, it is the only viable way to do it.

Any crewmember who becomes ill during his contract is taken care of completely until he is well - all at the cruise line's cost.

This is also part of the union contract agreed upon between the cruise lines and the various maritime unions representing the crew.

This also explains the rigorous pre-employment physical exam required by all the cruise lines.

[sail7seas]

I have heard various stories of how injured/ill crewmembers have been taken care of and it is commendable. When there is an emergency, HAL shines. They truly do take good care of crew when they need it most.... as we all would hope.

 

[IRL_Joanie]

So if Copper (who is an HAL employee) say that they are getting pay that is right...and if the employee say the opposite they are wrong, they lie...

 

Plain and simple, THE CREW LIED!!!!

 

Believe what you will, the rest of us believe Copper10-8 and others on this board and this thread who know first hand the truth, ie., former officers aboard the ships.

 

Now let's all be happy and play nicely together:)

 

Joanie