CAS EPIC Reality.......Norwegian's New Reality

[sjbdtz]

I have been an avid follower of yours for several years now, and we almost cruised together.

 

I remember! I was disappointed when you guys dropped-out.

 

 

Thanks for joining in here, and yes CAS were outright nasty, not to me, but to my Casino Representative that books all of our Junkets whether it be a land based Casino, a Cruise Line or an Island Junket.

 

I love your last line commenting on mine. There was not even an inkling of any kind of a win on the EPIC. Had there been, and I don't mean a win on my part, but ANYONE WINNING, then I would have been a little more happy and more motivated. On the EPIC, I was just going thru the motions plugging away on machine after machine trying to build my points to satisfy my continued comps. Had I known the end result was going to be rudeness from CAS then I would have stopped gaming the first night and enjoyed the ship more.

 

Live, Learn and save money next time!

 

Jerome and I think you are just Brilliant! Thanks.

 

 

That really sucks. But anthem's comments about external agents & the new CAS PCCs having conflicting priorities may be spot-on.

 

We were just on the Dawn in October, and it was business as usual for CAS, but I've never involved a third party, so really that may be the complicating factor.

 

 

Hopefully things sort themselves out, we're still hoping to meet you guys on an NCL ship one day! :)

 

 

Stephen

 

.

[Fishbait17]

FWIW, the $5 = 1 Point system went fleet wide in late December 2009 - I know because I was the first to report it live from the Jade. Comps have gone downhill since then, little by little, and my comp suites have (had) been reduced to mostly comp balconies and mini-suites, but its still been a great system for me up to now... As for the 5hrs/5 1/2 days/max bet - I would say that's about on track for somewhere between 7500-10,000 points, where my average generally lies. On the Epic earlier this year, I made just about 8000 points and hubby made another 5000, and I would guesstimate I played about that (5/5 1/2) average time on max bet, so hopefully it won't affect me much.. You are correct, I found the casino staff on the Epic to be the least friendly of all ships, but they did seek me out to offer dinners, etc, so I can't complain too much.. And yes, the Epic slots seemed much tighter than other NCL ships, although the Sun was particularly tight this year as well, so maybe they tightened up all over..

 

Just out of curiosity, I might call and check into comps on the Epic for early next year (we are planning to book it anyway, just haven't gotten around to it yet). I will report back when I have done so - but it might take me a little while to get the chance to call. Also, I have always found that CAS offers me a better deal than my CET host, but I might try that route as well for comparison..

 

Robin

[che5904]

but since sometime in October 2012, they changed the system completely.

 

By the sounds of it though the system that has changed a lot was the one that used a 3rd party. Since those not using a 3rd party can still get comped most of what they did between 2009 and Oct 2012.

 

Although the bar may be higher than previous years. But that happens with land casinos as well. The more free cruises that places like Harrah's offer to their higher end players the more high end players that will cruise NCL. Therefore setting the bar higher. Harrah's Total rewards have done the same thing with their tier levels. What a person needed to reach platinum a few years ago was 3000 per year and now is 4000. Diamond was 10,000 and now is 11,000.

[cruiseguys2009]

It must be my third party rep.....that's why I put this thread out there and I want to thank everyone for chiming in. We have been with CAS since 2009 on the Dawn and have always had a great time. This time, we upgraded ourselves to the Haven Spa Suite on top of the comp. The median range for Suite Requirements is off the chart now.

 

As for my 4500 points, I did take the 25 OBC and rolled over the rest as I planned on sailing again.

 

The system for points has been the same, however, the adjustment of staterooms and if they want you to sail again occurs if you do not bet at least $3 Max Bet, and on the dollar machines, over 100 of them on the EPIC, max bet was $2. I lived at those machines as well as the Quick Hit but always bet max there. I know my time on the floor, on one particular night, I put in over $1200 and still did not even get a small re-investment win or generated enough points. When I sought out the Host, she shrugged and said that its the new system. It's not about points any more, its about time, max bet and days on the floor.

 

I think my best bet is to try to eliminate my Rep and go direct with CAS.

 

Thank you all for great advice!!!

[jmcdon7230]

I don't want this to sound insulting, but would anyone agree that these CAS and HET programs are designed to keep the action flowing so that the casino seems alive?

A quiet, dead casino does not make money. A cruiser who is not a gambler is lured into trying their luck by the illusion of all the "winning" that is taking place. Are the people who are comped cabins, meals, drinks, etc., modern day shills giving the appearance of winners because they spend so much time in the casino? After all they must be winning, look at all the "jackpots" they hit.

At the end of the cruise they call their loses "entertainment" but in actuality are they casino employees working five to eight hours a day?

[SuiteCruiser]

It must be my third party rep.....that's why I put this thread out there and I want to thank everyone for chiming in. We have been with CAS since 2009 on the Dawn and have always had a great time. This time, we upgraded ourselves to the Haven Spa Suite on top of the comp. The median range for Suite Requirements is off the chart now.

 

As for my 4500 points, I did take the 25 OBC and rolled over the rest as I planned on sailing again.

 

The system for points has been the same, however, the adjustment of staterooms and if they want you to sail again occurs if you do not bet at least $3 Max Bet, and on the dollar machines, over 100 of them on the EPIC, max bet was $2. I lived at those machines as well as the Quick Hit but always bet max there. I know my time on the floor, on one particular night, I put in over $1200 and still did not even get a small re-investment win or generated enough points. When I sought out the Host, she shrugged and said that its the new system. It's not about points any more, its about time, max bet and days on the floor.

 

I think my best bet is to try to eliminate my Rep and go direct with CAS.

 

Thank you all for great advice!!!

 

Good luck with it :) I will report back when I return from the Jewel on the 23rd in case there are any further changes. I put in a LOT of time on the Epic which is why they comped the 6 top. They had offered a dinner for 2 and 4 other friends wanted to join, so I was only asking her to include the number in the reservation, they were happy to pay, and she fiddled with the computer and called and comped the entire table. I don't expect that to happen again on my little bets, but I think the time factor has benefitted me because the tables used to provide hardly anything for points.

 

I met a great group of fun, loud (We were too loud sometimes, but always drew a crowd) friends in the Epic casino, so it's possible, and the staff were really great to us, but I think being at the tables is far more social than the machines.

 

One thing I found out on my return is that you can't use the points you've rolled over from one cruise towards a drink card on the next one. I've done it in the past because I've had several cruises booked at the same time and could only book two ahead with CAS. Really, I don't see much point in rolling them over any longer. I will cash them in on the Jewel, unless someone knows any reason to carry them forward? Any help would be appreciated :)

 

Again, good luck going directly through CAS.

[che5904]

I don't want this to sound insulting, but would anyone agree that these CAS and HET programs are designed to keep the action flowing so that the casino seems alive?

A quiet, dead casino does not make money. A cruiser who is not a gambler is lured into trying their luck by the illusion of all the "winning" that is taking place. Are the people who are comped cabins, meals, drinks, etc., modern day shills giving the appearance of winners because they spend so much time in the casino? After all they must be winning, look at all the "jackpots" they hit.

At the end of the cruise they call their loses "entertainment" but in actuality are they casino employees working five to eight hours a day?

 

:D I'd have to say they are more designed to bring the gamers onboard knowing full well if they are higher rollers in land casinos that chances are they enjoy it and will spend in the casino onboard. Your casino is not filled with high end players, it's filled with the small spenders. But the small spenders don't keep the casino in business. So to entice higher players they offer, as I lovingly call them, dangling carrots to try and bring them in.

 

Sorry but you have me totally confused with your last question. :confused:

[SuiteCruiser]

I don't want this to sound insulting, but would anyone agree that these CAS and HET programs are designed to keep the action flowing so that the casino seems alive?

A quiet, dead casino does not make money. A cruiser who is not a gambler is lured into trying their luck by the illusion of all the "winning" that is taking place. Are the people who are comped cabins, meals, drinks, etc., modern day shills giving the appearance of winners because they spend so much time in the casino? After all they must be winning, look at all the "jackpots" they hit.

At the end of the cruise they call their loses "entertainment" but in actuality are they casino employees working five to eight hours a day?

 

I wish it were that way, I'd sign up in an instant. I love the casino and lately I've donating cruise after cruise, whereas I used to win sometimes, really! I love the action, I love the social piece and I would "work" for the casino in that capacity in a heartbeat.

 

In reality, there are just a lot of people who like to gamble a lot. I ONLY gamble on vacation, this year there's been a lot of vacations! I have a casino 20 minutes from my house and I never step foot in it. When I'm on a cruise I spent hours and hours there, but on my own dime and occasionally I get a run of playing on their money too, but not as an employee.

[anthem]

I don't want this to sound insulting, but would anyone agree that these CAS and HET programs are designed to keep the action flowing so that the casino seems alive?

A quiet, dead casino does not make money. A cruiser who is not a gambler is lured into trying their luck by the illusion of all the "winning" that is taking place. Are the people who are comped cabins, meals, drinks, etc., modern day shills giving the appearance of winners because they spend so much time in the casino? After all they must be winning, look at all the "jackpots" they hit.

At the end of the cruise they call their loses "entertainment" but in actuality are they casino employees working five to eight hours a day?

 

Your not too far from the truth. .. The casino will definitely try "harder" to lure hardcore players and bigger players into the casino because it is a draw to have more people in there. They will also raise their limits to accommodate some larger players (within what they can handle) because that helps as well. Whereas in Vegas, the bigger players have a tendency to be hidden away at times (to a certain extent) - they want the guy playing purples in the casino so that others can see. . . I think the Epic has a half - assed high limit area (it was there several months ago, not sure if its still there) so there is something there, but most don't have that.

 

 

So yes, casino marketing try to get a set number of players into each group so that their is "action" on a cruise.

 

 

And in regarding to the third party host - yeah, thats definitely a problem. They sign exclusivity agreements for everyone they bring. While they have several places they can "place" you into - its always at a disadvantage over direct. I would definitely look at dumping that and going and getting direct relationships. CAS obviously has their hands tied even more there. They aren't tied with HET, but obviously if its an outside third party - they are tied. The outside guys are always over promising and worry about reality later. So you're outside host probably over promised whatever it was that you were suppose to do. CAS generally only wants 2 hours of play/day. It's not 4 and I've not heard 5 1/2. Now, that might have changed recently, but I seriously think this is more to do with a 3rd party host and not CAS or HET->CAS.

[jmcdon7230]

:D I'd have to say they are more designed to bring the gamers onboard knowing full well if they are higher rollers in land casinos that chances are they enjoy it and will spend in the casino onboard. Your casino is not filled with high end players, it's filled with the small spenders. But the small spenders don't keep the casino in business. So to entice higher players they offer, as I lovingly call them, dangling carrots to try and bring them in.

 

Sorry but you have me totally confused with your last question. :confused:

 

Here's the last question:

"At the end of the cruise they call their loses "entertainment" but in actuality are they casino employees working five to eight hours a day?"

 

I asked this in regard to their request by CAS for at least five hours of playing time a day. When a requirement is for hours it is similar to being an employee. They seem to want gamblers on the floor making the bells and lights go off once in a while. Naive folks walk by and say "Wow! These people are winning!" When in reality they are usually losing. I've walked through a ship's casino and envied the "winners".

[anthem]

Here's the last question:

"At the end of the cruise they call their loses "entertainment" but in actuality are they casino employees working five to eight hours a day?"

 

I asked this in regard to their request by CAS for at least five hours of playing time a day. When a requirement is for hours it is similar to being an employee. They seem to want gamblers on the floor making the bells and lights go off once in a while. Naive folks walk by and say "Wow! These people are winning!" When in reality they are usually losing. I've walked through a ship's casino and envied the "winners".

 

Not at all. Most land based casino's want 4 hours a day. 5.5 hours is a bit extreme and I doubt that is the case with CAS.

 

You have to realize, they don't want gamblers to come in and quick hit. The longer you play - the more the numbers start working. And when the numbers start working, the odds start favoring the house.

 

It's like rolling a dice. You might get things in your favor by being lucky. but if you roll the dice continuously for four hours - eventually the true odds of the dice start to come out.

[Kaboochi]

We've been on 5 NCL ships and found the Epic casino to be the worst of any of them for slots that paid and comps.

 

Sad to hear. I was on the Gem and out of 12+ sailings that was the worst for slot payouts, the Sun was 2nd. But, I love NCL service and will continue to sail their line. I just wish they would loosen up their slots to pay slightly more. NO I want the big mother jackpot:D. Will it happen ever on a ship NOOOOO:(

[sjbdtz]

Good luck with it :) I will report back when I return from the Jewel on the 23rd in case there are any further changes. I put in a LOT of time on the Epic which is why they comped the 6 top. They had offered a dinner for 2 and 4 other friends wanted to join, so I was only asking her to include the number in the reservation, they were happy to pay, and she fiddled with the computer and called and comped the entire table. I don't expect that to happen again on my little bets, but I think the time factor has benefitted me because the tables used to provide hardly anything for points.

 

I met a great group of fun, loud (We were too loud sometimes, but always drew a crowd) friends in the Epic casino, so it's possible, and the staff were really great to us, but I think being at the tables is far more social than the machines.

 

One thing I found out on my return is that you can't use the points you've rolled over from one cruise towards a drink card on the next one. I've done it in the past because I've had several cruises booked at the same time and could only book two ahead with CAS. Really, I don't see much point in rolling them over any longer. I will cash them in on the Jewel, unless someone knows any reason to carry them forward? Any help would be appreciated :)

 

Again, good luck going directly through CAS.

 

 

The only advantage to rolling-over points from one cruise to the next, is if you have fewer than 2500.

 

Not at all. Most land based casino's want 4 hours a day. 5.5 hours is a bit extreme and I doubt that is the case with CAS.

 

You have to realize, they don't want gamblers to come in and quick hit. The longer you play - the more the numbers start working. And when the numbers start working, the odds start favoring the house.

 

It's like rolling a dice. You might get things in your favor by being lucky. but if you roll the dice continuously for four hours - eventually the true odds of the dice start to come out.

 

 

It's really quite simple. The house always has a small edge. If you're winning, they want you to stick around & give them their money back.

 

If you're losing, they'd like more.

 

So in either case, time is to the house's advantage.

 

 

 

.

[sail2sea]

mLife also changed their comps system lately. Tough times all around.

[cruiseguys2009]

i don't want this to sound insulting, but would anyone agree that these cas and het programs are designed to keep the action flowing so that the casino seems alive?

A quiet, dead casino does not make money. A cruiser who is not a gambler is lured into trying their luck by the illusion of all the "winning" that is taking place. Are the people who are comped cabins, meals, drinks, etc., modern day shills giving the appearance of winners because they spend so much time in the casino? After all they must be winning, look at all the "jackpots" they hit.

At the end of the cruise they call their loses "entertainment" but in actuality are they casino employees working five to eight hours a day?

 

 

absolutely brilliant!

[SuiteCruiser]

I know those of us who have booked through CAS know this, but for others just popping onto the thread, once you are on the ship, there is no requirement at all to spend anytime in the casino. The comp is given based on play on prior cruises, so if you don't want any other comped cruises, you can sail and never step foot into the casino.

[che5904]

Here's the last question:

"At the end of the cruise they call their loses "entertainment" but in actuality are they casino employees working five to eight hours a day?"

 

I asked this in regard to their request by CAS for at least five hours of playing time a day. When a requirement is for hours it is similar to being an employee. They seem to want gamblers on the floor making the bells and lights go off once in a while. Naive folks walk by and say "Wow! These people are winning!" When in reality they are usually losing. I've walked through a ship's casino and envied the "winners".

 

I'm actually rather surprised that the OP received absolute information on this. Above the $5 - 1 point that is designated to all slot players. I've asked numerous casino exec hosts how they calculated special comps for certain players. My answer has always been very similar. They do not know exactly, that the computer calculates it using some "secret" formula. But that things that are used in the formula are specific types of machines you play, how long on each machine, the size of bet (and no it doesn't have to be max) and how long you are playing on the casino floor.

 

So obviously what the OP has stated is not out of line for any casino.

[che5904]

I have a casino 20 minutes from my house and I never step foot in it.

 

That is wise. If you think the ship's casino is tight, those machines are even tighter. I have been in there less than 1/2 dozen times since 2001 (smoking ban). I used to go a few times a week but they kept tightening up their machines until now you pretty well need a screw driver to get a dime out of them.

[mjsshipboy]

The Casino Host, Melissa and her staff seemed to be just going thru the motions, unconcerned and uninterested, all securely stuffed behind the counter, constantly looking at their computer screen, (made me think they were looking at porn all the time), barely ever looked up at any customer or acknowledge anyone personally when speaking to them. They were never, ever on the floor with the Guests, except to sell pre-picked lottery numbers from their pockets. Stuck behind their computer screens, they were, not considerate of any customer, but more concerned what was in their emails from boys on board the ship or from home.

 

I actually think that is a tremendously rude accusation that they are sat at work looking at porn and chatting with boys from home. What gives you the right to say that.

 

I think this comment tells everyone a LOT about your attitude.

[deise17311]

He has the right to say it because of their rude attitude...if they want you to spend spend spend, then give customer service!!

[anthem]

I actually think that is a tremendously rude accusation that they are sat at work looking at porn and chatting with boys from home. What gives you the right to say that.

 

I think this comment tells everyone a LOT about your attitude.

 

He has the right to say it because of their rude attitude...if they want you to spend spend spend, then give customer service!!

 

Actually the First Amendment of the United States of America gives him the "right" to espouse his thoughts and opinions. However, there are some limitations in terms of libel/slander and potential damage associated with that.

 

But outside of that - because he is in the United States, he is free and has the right to express those thoughts and opinions. You also being in the United States should recognize that the First Amendment gives those same protections to him and you. So you have a right to express that you think its "rude" on his part, but not to question or deny he has a right to his opinions.

[che5904]

He has the right to say it because of their rude attitude...if they want you to spend spend spend, then give customer service!!

 

Rudeness may be a knee jerk reaction to someone you feel has treated you that way. But, ever heard of the saying 2 wrongs don't make a right? It just makes the person reacting look bad and doesn't give much credibility for someone to point the finger or accuse someone else.

[deise17311]

This is insane...he was making a point about the clerks who gave no customer service...I think some are taking it a bit far...give me a break

[anthem]

This is insane...he was making a point about the clerks who gave no customer service...I think some are taking it a bit far...give me a break

 

Actually it was about a casino host. And a casino host that isn't really a casino host in the traditional sense of the word. Most casino hosts are responsible for bringing a certain level of player into the fold that will give the casino "play" of a certain level and be compensated for that. In this particular case - he was complaining about an individual and their staff that were not responsible for bringing their players in and not being compensated for that based on their play. So not what I would call a "casino host".

 

Now, now that its either here nor there - but casino hosts (and by extension casino marketing departments) are notorious for paying attention to who they want to pay attention to. I'm not going to get into whether its right or wrong - but its the reality of a casino host position. They aren't going to pay attention to "marginal players" or players they aren't going to be compensated for (just like waiters). Human nature means they will pay attention to where their bread is buttered.

 

Now, whether this particular person (because I don't think they are casino hosts in the classical sense) acts/acted or should act this way is always going to be up for debate. Ideally, it shouldn't happen - whether real or perceived. But in reality it will happen - just like concierges, etc.

[che5904]

Actually it was about a casino host. And a casino host that isn't really a casino host in the traditional sense of the word. Most casino hosts are responsible for bringing a certain level of player into the fold that will give the casino "play" of a certain level and be compensated for that. In this particular case - he was complaining about an individual and their staff that were not responsible for bringing their players in and not being compensated for that based on their play. So not what I would call a "casino host".

 

Now, now that its either here nor there - but casino hosts (and by extension casino marketing departments) are notorious for paying attention to who they want to pay attention to. I'm not going to get into whether its right or wrong - but its the reality of a casino host position. They aren't going to pay attention to "marginal players" or players they aren't going to be compensated for (just like waiters). Human nature means they will pay attention to where their bread is buttered.

 

Now, whether this particular person (because I don't think they are casino hosts in the classical sense) acts/acted or should act this way is always going to be up for debate. Ideally, it shouldn't happen - whether real or perceived. But in reality it will happen - just like concierges, etc.

 

Correct this was not a "clerk" that owed "customer service". For that the OP would have been better served with the casino manager, who's job is to treat all patrons the same. Not that I am excusing the behavior that the OP describes, since in my opinion any customer could be a potential high end player, so not only is ignoring dumb but just rude on any level. Still doesn't mean rudeness about that person is good form or in good taste.