CNN reporting another Carnival Ship having trouble (The Dream)

[Topo Gigio]

This morning there were 5 flights from Atlanta, 1 From Minneapolis and 1 from Borinquen, Puerto Rico. From these flights 3 were narrowbodies (150-200 depending on the version) and the rest were wide bodies 3 767 and 1 A330! and there are another 2 charters which I don't know where they are coming from. Total today between 11:00-17:00 Delta had 9 charters with seat capacity of over 2000!

[MrPete]

Passengers returning to Orlando International and the media are pissed!!!!

They cant believe the passengers are saying it was no big deal and worse thing could happen in life!

 

I think the one passenger that made a call to the media reporting toilets overflowing and and sewage everywhere needs to be called out.

 

Why? Carnival in their press release admitted it happened. It may have been his cabin.

[Eng23]

There are only about 4 jetways, yes, but they can park planes on the tarmac and roll stairs. They do that all the time on the weekend now. The Delta planes seem to be staggered about every hour or so, so they may well be able to have all of them on a jetway, don't know. Today is Friday and there are less planes normally on Friday than on a weekend in SXM. For purposes of outgoing AND incoming into the US immigration and for outgoing baggage screening, it would be crazy to have all of the flights scheduled at the same time, even if they COULD have several planes on the ground at the same time. Staggering planes every hour or so makes sense. I count approximately 9 planes which have either left SXM or scheduled to leave soon, from SXM to Orlando. I didn't see any Delta jets going anywhere else today, other than the regularly scheduled Delta to Atlanta. Don't know if they put any cruise ship folks on that regular flight or not.

I agree with what you are saying. I am aware they have remote parking stands where you can board with mobile stairs. Those parking areas are not large enough for more than 2 or 3 large aircraft like 767's or A330's. That is why I mentioned that it will take multiple flights per day for the next few days to accomplish the task of getting everyone back to the U.S.

[mek]

Huh???? Are you referring to CATASTROPHIC mechanical failures that cause a crash??? Because what the Dream experienced (a faulty auxiliary generator) happens (and quite often) on airplanes without a single loss of lives.

 

As an airline pilot, I can tell you that if a generator failed in the air, the flight would continue to the final destination without disruption. In fact you would probably NEVER know that something failed in flight.

 

Mechanical problems happen every day on flights. Many are handled without passengers ever knowing.

 

Catastrophic. As a passenger, I would get pretty nervous if I KNEW there was a mechanical issue on a flight, but I wouldn't be the least bit concerned for my safety if it was a mechanical issue on a ship.

[Tutankhamen]

Proof please.

 

No proof, but touche in turning my words against myself. I would of done the same thing!!

 

That said, I will humbly recant my earlier statement. I will rephrase to better represent my feeling.

 

It would not surprise me to learn that there is additional expense in regards to having to process people without passports at the airport.

 

My experience with business, which is not limited, is that when you have a change in pace or change in the normal routine there is almost inevitably a price to pay. I would assume that the set up at the port is as such that they can process people in a closed loop cruise. Where as at the airport they are not set up to accept people without passports.

 

What is required to do the process at the airport as compared to the port is not known to me. Again, I am just basing this on my experience in business.

[Tapi]

Catastrophic. As a passenger, I would get pretty nervous if I KNEW there was a mechanical issue on a flight, but I wouldn't be the least bit concerned for my safety if it was a mechanical issue on a ship.

 

Don't be nervous. Really. You have a better chance of dying hit by lightning while riding a donkey than dying on an airplane because of a mechanical issue.

 

Even if one of the engines failed in flight, you still have an extremely good chance of landing safely and walking off the airplane completely unharmed. :)

 

Engine shutdowns probably happen on a daily basis. The difference is that the airlines are not under the media's magnifying glass right now. Carnival is, so they are making news out of whatever they can find.

[ducklite]

Oh please, I don't see it and most of the other forum responders don't see it either, you have chosen indefensible position...

 

Your opinion, just like I'm entitled to mine.

[ducklite]

When 3 ships in a fleet aren't functioning correctly at the same time, it is more than just luck or size of the fleet. The odds are very very very very very low that this could happen by chance (too lazy to go into stats behind it but will gladly if next student fails to show for office hours).

 

Four if you count the paperweight sitting on a rock off Italy.

[ducklite]

It's not going to cost the taxpayers any more than it would have cost to process them at the port. That's rich though, tell people that they can do something and then fine them when through no fault of their own things go bad. (And with all due respect, no, I am not getting a passport just because you tell me to.)

 

The passengers could demand Carnival pay for it. That seems reasonable all the way around.

[momof4boys]

I was sailing out of Port Everglades a week ago and our ship was next to a Carnival ship (I believe the Freedom if I remember correctly) and I looked at the Carnival ship and then at the other ships in port and it made me feel a bit sad. The ship looked a bit run down and not in the greatest condition. There was a Holland America Line ship in port accross the way and even though it did look a bit old, it didn't look nearly as run down as the Carnival ship I saw.

 

Not meaning anything hurtful, it was just saddening to see. Makes me wish they would take better care when it comes to appearance and overall customer experience. My heart went out to those on the troubled ships and those whose future sailings will be effected by recent events. It stinks... :-(. I had wanted to try and cruise CCL because I had heard about the coveted meting chocolate cake but now I have second thoughts....

 

 

Has Freedom moved?? I sailed her out of Fort Lauderdale and in July she was is FABULOUS shape.

 

I am ok with a lot of people not sailing Carnival. I will get my suite at a much better rate.

[ducklite]

This is not accurate.

 

A US Consulate can issue first time passports.

 

Here is the procedure for the US consulate in Curacao which has jurisdiction over St Maarten.

 

http://curacao.usconsulate.gov/first-time_applicants.html

 

I was wrong and I'll admit it. I had been told some time ago that initial passports could not be issued by a consulate--I think by my friends that had to get one to bring their infant back, and could only get a temporary "in-transit" passport until they got back to the US.

[MissKIA]

If I were on this ship, I doubt I would see this incident as a bad thing.

If I were employed by CCL corporate or a CCL stockholder, I would not feel very good....not at all.

 

Oh absolutely! It's certainly no marine disaster, but it is definitely a huge corporate nightmare.

[ducklite]

I am big enough to admit that I am wrong. They should not be charged a fine. They should just be charged a fee for having to go through a different process then anyone else that is flying in to the USA.

 

Please enlighten me to the process of admitting citizens into the USA without a passport at the airport? I have not been through this process, and will not be in the process as I choose to carry a Passport while outside the USA.

 

Fee is a better term, I agree.

 

When a US citizen presents themselves coming off an international flight without a passport, they will be subject to additional scrutiny. Why don't they have a passport? What happened to their passport? Do they have a police report? How can they prove they are a citizen? Their ID will be checked and run against various databases. They will likely be asked personal questions like their fathers name, a previous address, etc.--information contained in databases but not on the ID. A positive ID will have to be made via photo or fingerprints and their citizenship verified before the person is allowed into the country. If they are carrying a birth certificate as well, this could take maybe five minutes. If not, it can take several hours.

[ducklite]

Be a grown up. Get a passport.

 

That said, US passports should be free. They cost way too much. $135 for the privilege of entering one's own country is ridiculous.

 

I disagree. Someone has to pay for that document, and it shouldn't be people who have no interest or plans on ever leaving the country. It works out to $12 a year. $1 per month. If that's going to break someone, they should really reconsider their vacation plans.

[ducklite]

Why? Because you think so?

 

Apparently, Carnival and the US immigration department have come to an agreement on this. Carnival has all the passenger manifests with the information the passengers filled out before they left, additional photo IDs of all the passengers (I ASSume that they will check S&S cards sometime before boarding the planes) and those without passports have their birth certificates and their photo IDs/driver's licenses. IIRC the photo ID has to be a government issued ID - which are getting much more difficult to obtain. I would think the US immigration people will collect the manifests and check them against their databases before the passengers can return to US soil and I'm sure anyone who doesn't check out WILL be detained. It's going to take a couple of days to move that many people.

 

A S&S card is not a valid ID to board a plane in any manner or form.

 

FWIW - I have a passport and have had one for a long time. I don't quite get why someone would be so vehemently opposed to having one, as some seem to be.

 

I agree with you.

 

That said, it was MUCH easier to get the passport than it was to get my NJ driver's license. For the passport, all I needed was my birth certificate, marriage license, the 2 photos and a check for the fee. To get my NJ driver's license, I needed my passport (or like 3-4 other proofs of ID), my marriage license, a utility bill to confirm my address, a bank statement - and I forget how many other things. You do have to prove that you are in the US legally - they check.

 

Agreed, getting a NJ DL was ridiculous. I'm surprised they didn't ask for a DNA swab or the photos from my most recent colonoscopy. The worst part is that after they made me bend over and spread, several clerks in the office I had gone to were arrested for making fake DL's for illegal immigrants. Yup, real secure. :rolleyes:

 

It's got seals and holograms and probably an RFID chip - it's actually more proof of who I am than my passport - not for border crossing, but I wouldn't be surprised if one day, that's all you'll need for ID is one of these driver's licenses.

 

The new passports have the same imbedded technology.

[cruisin_cutie216]

OK. So what was it that made you feel the other ships looked run down? (I am just intrigued, not trying to argue)

 

I guess run down may be the wrong wordage. I think the word I may be looking for is 'dated'. Compared to the modern ships or even Carnival's newer ships in the fleet (the Breeze I believe?), that one seemed so dated. I was a bit surprised that it seemed like they hadn't updated or changed it (at least from an outside perspective). To be fair, maybe the inside is a bit better.

 

None the less, not being a cheerleader for any one cruise line (I prefer to be Switzerland), it feels like the media likes to distort so many things to make them seem worse than they are.

 

Sure the Triumph debacle was bad but read the book written from a first hand account from a passenger onboard (she was with her husband and I believe two daughters) and she even stated that sure it was uncomfortable but it wasn't nearly as bad as some people made it out to be.

[ducklite]

Does any one know the answer to this? There are people who will never step foot on a air plane. They dirve everwhere and they take a homeport cruise because they don't have to fly. Now, with the ship in St Maarten, are they giving people who don't fly (for what ever reason) another way (by ship) to get back to the US.

 

I doubt they will make those accommodations until there is a significant medical reason to avoid air travel In other words, "Suck it up, Buttercup."

[ducklite]

She looks beautiful to me. I was on her in 2009 and looking forward to being on her again in August. Personally she is my favorite Carnival ship.

 

She doesn't look to be in bad condition, but I don't think it's an attractive ship. I prefer a more classic look like the original Disney ships or the QE2. The Compagnie du Ponant ships have a great look to them that blends classic and modern--really sleek.

[morganboys]

Now with 1 ship fire, 1 ship breakdown, & 1 ship with issues is this an indication that carnival is slacking on their ship maintenance to cut costs? This may tick a few of the cheer leaders off but it is something to think about. I find it hard to believe that these three coincedentally happened. We all know that things happen but three incidents like this in a couple months time. Now I could understand if they were all sister ships that were having the same issues but they are not. All different classes and all different issues. Come on Carnival please get your stuff together before my cruise next July. But then again a cruise with issues, a refund, and 50% off discount on a future cruise does sound a bit enticing. What are your thoughts?

 

 

Not sure why the mods thought this needed to be moved to this thread?

[ducklite]

I was thinking the same way. My mother-in-law lives in Florida and needs oxygen 24/7. Because she can drive to the port, they bring along either the big condenser or she travels with the oxygen tanks ... both won't be allowed on the plane. ALso, I think I read here once someone brought a dialysis machine on board.

 

What would Carnival do in these situations? Have them shipped home? Obviously, they'd have to get a POC in St. Maarten because otherwise, she can't fly home without oxygen! But then, POC's are very expensive.

 

I mentioned it earlier in the thread, but for those specific medical needs that prevent them from flying, I think they will possibly find them berths on other ships in St. Maarten back to Florida--even if it's on DCL or RCI.

[ducklite]

Has Freedom moved?? I sailed her out of Fort Lauderdale and in July she was is FABULOUS shape.

 

I am ok with a lot of people not sailing Carnival. I will get my suite at a much better rate.

 

Don't count on it. There's just so much further CCL can go down in price, Carnival is already pretty much rock bottom. I suspect they would take some of the less profitable ships out of service and have less supply to drive up demand and stabilize prices before they would discount much more--particularly on the in demand suites and inside cabins.

[DryCreek]

Mechanical problems happen every day on flights. Many are handled without passengers ever knowing.

 

Yup, I agree. Once back in the early 90's, I was on a U.S.Air DeHavilland Dash 8. There was a loud pop, a flash outside the window, a slight whiff of smoke in the air, and then they feathered number one. We circled the Baltimore harbor for awhile (dumping fuel?) and then back to BWI for a landing without much ado. A firetruck chased us down and as soon as No. 2 was killed they propped a ladder against the exhaust port and had a peek in. A quick thumbs-up and we were taxiing back to a gate. They diverted a Dash-7 from Washington National that was bound for ORF to pick us up. They dropped us off at PHF and continued on their merry way. Of course the passengers that wanted a direct to ORF were not happy with the delay....

 

Chatting with the flight attendant she informed me that they ferried on one engine all the time. She was sitting next to me to keep me quiet I guess since I was the one that flagged her down to inquire why they feathered number one. I was quite impressed. The rate of climb was cut only by about 50% while we were clearing the inbound/outbound lanes. It probably didn't hurt that we were lightly loaded too.

[DryCreek]

I disagree. Someone has to pay for that document, and it shouldn't be people who have no interest or plans on ever leaving the country. It works out to $12 a year. $1 per month. If that's going to break someone, they should really reconsider their vacation plans.

 

Oh, this is what I love! The elitists are out now. I know, you are just such a worldly person, jetting about the globe, and the commoners are always making a mess of your plans.

 

How about some perspective, OK? Let's take my son as an example. A young couple with one or two young children, both work and are saddled with housing costs, a modest car payment, and student loan debt. They find that they can book a four or five day vacation on a certain cruise line at an affordable price. They do research and also find out about the tipping, and then figure in the cost to drive to Galveston for a well deserved family vacation. Now, add in the cost of demanding that they purchase documents THAT ARE NOT REQUIRED BY LAW, and the price of a cruise is no longer affordable. Of course, some of you snobs would prefer that budget travelers not inconvenience you with their presence. It tends to take away the prestige of your chosen vacation lifestyle, I guess? I would have expected you folks to find ways to encourage young families to experience the fun and excitement of a cruise. In fact, just by looking at the target demographic of the Carnival advertisements, I think that is who they are trying to lure aboard.

 

As my son asked when I told him of this snobbery, "well, how many of those know-it-alls have a CHL in case the bus they are riding in has the driver pulled off for exceeding his logged hours?" I told him about as many that are also multi/com/IFR waiting to take the controls in the event that the flight deck crew becomes unresponsive. Also, I guess about as many decide to return to college and become surgeons just in case they need an appendectomy while stranded in a remote village waving their passports around for the natives to see.

 

If my son decides to take a cruise, that would probably be a one-off for them. They certainly aren't going to be able to afford to take a cruise twice a year like some others here, much less again in the next five years. The rest of the time will be long weekends to Fiesta Texas or maybe a jaunt to grandmas or Tyler State Park with our RV. The passports ($135 X 4) would serve them no purpose for awhile.

 

I have to wade through the same snobbery on the Disney boards. I am a huge Disney fan, and while we lived on the East Coast and our son was growing up we would go to either Walt Disney World or Disneyland every other year. Sometimes we would go to one one year, and then the other the very next year. I always dreamed of staying onsite, but until we bought our RV (and stayed at Fort Wilderness) that was just something I couldn't swing. The snobs insist that the only way to enjoy WDW is to stay onsite, yet they lament the building of the value resorts since it allows "a lower class of vacationer" to sully their presence. Now that the DW and I are "all grown up", we can easily afford to stay at any of the Disney Deluxe hotels, yet we prefer to stay at a moderate (Port Orleans Riverside is the wife's favorite). Geeze, Louise.

 

Folks, with the economy in the doldrums right now, a vacation is beyond many people who struggle just to survive. If the current rules allow them to travel with documents that they already have, I am all for that. For those of you with money falling out of your behinds and can afford to jet about the globe, I am happy for you. I had to see the world on the economy plan - a six year U.S.N. enlistment. Bet I've been on a longer cruise than many of y'all. Seven months deployed out of Norfolk to the Indian Ocean with an around the world return, through the Panama Canal.

Oh, I did it without a passport too.

[Bhnrfam]

Well said! :-)

[texhockey]

How about some perspective, OK? Let's take my son as an example. A young couple with one or two young children, both work and are saddled with housing costs, a modest car payment, and student loan debt. They find that they can book a four or five day vacation on a certain cruise line at an affordable price. They do research and also find out about the tipping, and then figure in the cost to drive to Galveston for a well deserved family vacation. Now, add in the cost of demanding that they purchase documents THAT ARE NOT REQUIRED BY LAW, and the price of a cruise is no longer affordable.

 

I was thinking about the same thing. A few years back my mother bought my whole family a Christmas cruise. That was a great gift but 2 of my sisters families would not have been able to afford shelling out $400 extra dollars to go on the "free" trip if passports were required. My wife and myself and our daughter have passports but if all we did were cruises I wouldn't have bothered spending the extra money.