Passports needed?

[sparks1093]

I am a former consular officer, the person at an embassy who would be charged with assisting you with your emergency and trying to get you documented to return to the US if you were not able to go on the ship for some reason. First off, I always advocate for people to have a passport for international travel, whether or not it is required for their particular itinerary, because certain things generally cannot be done without a passport (like flying home from a port that you cruised into). Secondly, once you are "in the system" because you have been issued a passport (even if it was a while ago), your identity and citizenship can be verified by the embassy. If you have not yet gone through that process, it is up to you to somehow document your identity and citizenship while lying unconscious in a hospital bed or when beloved family desperately need you back home. The issuance process can take a few days depending on your situation, and when time is precious those days are unbearable. The embassy or consulate will work with you from the moment they are aware of your situation and will do everything in their power to assist you, regardless of your circumstances, but the burden is on you.

 

Finally, I want to point out that all of the discussion we see here of weighing risks and risk management fails to take into consideration that it may not be YOUR actions that cause you to have an emergency-- it may be someone else's. Yes, it is important to be aware and to be a good decision maker, but if you cross paths with a poor decision maker-- a guide who doesn't maintain his vehicle, a road accident that is another driver's fault, someone else's medical crisis that delays your group, theft of your documents (which is why I leave mine on the ship and carry photocopies, but many people on these boards prefer to carry them ashore), etc-- you will still not be able to get home on the ship and will need to work through the embassy to get documented to fly home. This is purely anecdotal and my personal experience, but while the vast majority of American citizens I dealt with who were arrested abroad were ultimately found guilty (and therefore would have known that there was a risk of detention in a foreign country because they chose to engage in illegal activity), most hospital cases and deaths were not events that could have been anticipated, and therefore these people would not have been able to predict their need for a passport and the benefits thereof. This discussion of risk seems to take for granted that we have total control of the world around us, and while that is never true, I think it is even less true when we are in a foreign country where we do not speak the language/ know the customs and norms/ have the ability to take care of our own needs.

 

So this section of the regulations means nothing?

"

(b) A U.S. citizen is not required to bear a valid U.S. passport to enter or depart the United States:

...

(9) When the Department of State waives, pursuant to EO 13323 of December 30, 2003, Section 2, the requirement with respect to the U.S. citizen because there is an unforeseen emergency; or

(10) When the Department of State waives, pursuant to EO 13323 of December 30, 2003, Sec 2, the requirement with respect to the U.S. citizen for humanitarian or national interest reasons; ..."

[Warm Breezes]

I am a former consular officer, the person at an embassy who would be charged with assisting you with your emergency and trying to get you documented to return to the US if you were not able to go on the ship for some reason. First off, I always advocate for people to have a passport for international travel, whether or not it is required for their particular itinerary, because certain things generally cannot be done without a passport (like flying home from a port that you cruised into). Secondly, once you are "in the system" because you have been issued a passport (even if it was a while ago), your identity and citizenship can be verified by the embassy. If you have not yet gone through that process, it is up to you to somehow document your identity and citizenship while lying unconscious in a hospital bed or when beloved family desperately need you back home. The issuance process can take a few days depending on your situation, and when time is precious those days are unbearable. The embassy or consulate will work with you from the moment they are aware of your situation and will do everything in their power to assist you, regardless of your circumstances, but the burden is on you.

 

Finally, I want to point out that all of the discussion we see here of weighing risks and risk management fails to take into consideration that it may not be YOUR actions that cause you to have an emergency-- it may be someone else's. Yes, it is important to be aware and to be a good decision maker, but if you cross paths with a poor decision maker-- a guide who doesn't maintain his vehicle, a road accident that is another driver's fault, someone else's medical crisis that delays your group, theft of your documents (which is why I leave mine on the ship and carry photocopies, but many people on these boards prefer to carry them ashore), etc-- you will still not be able to get home on the ship and will need to work through the embassy to get documented to fly home. This is purely anecdotal and my personal experience, but while the vast majority of American citizens I dealt with who were arrested abroad were ultimately found guilty (and therefore would have known that there was a risk of detention in a foreign country because they chose to engage in illegal activity), most hospital cases and deaths were not events that could have been anticipated, and therefore these people would not have been able to predict their need for a passport and the benefits thereof. This discussion of risk seems to take for granted that we have total control of the world around us, and while that is never true, I think it is even less true when we are in a foreign country where we do not speak the language/ know the customs and norms/ have the ability to take care of our own needs.

 

When we do our risk assessment we acknowledge that these type of things can happen....but when doing a risk assessment we look at the probability of those things happening, not that they do happen. Things happen to people every day, but we take an assessment of that risk happening and then decide if the risk is high enough for us to chance doing it or not. I get in my car everyday knowing their is a risk I could get injured or killed by someone elses actions. I still get in my car and accept that risk.

[Sea Monster 2]

So this section of the regulations means nothing?

"

(b) A U.S. citizen is not required to bear a valid U.S. passport to enter or depart the United States:

...

(9) When the Department of State waives, pursuant to EO 13323 of December 30, 2003, Section 2, the requirement with respect to the U.S. citizen because there is an unforeseen emergency; or

(10) When the Department of State waives, pursuant to EO 13323 of December 30, 2003, Sec 2, the requirement with respect to the U.S. citizen for humanitarian or national interest reasons; ..."

 

Happily, in the US our laws and regs mean everything! You will notice in the first sentence I wrote that I said that you will need to be "documented to return to the US," which means simply that you need a travel document to enter the US, not necessarily a passport. However, your identity and citizenship must be established for any travel document to be issued. Otherwise, a foreigner like my husband, who speaks like an American and can talk about Miami Dolphins football all day (I know, poor him!:p) can walk into an embassy and claim to be a US citizen and get a document establishing him as such, just because he walks and talks like one. The system is set up to support and assist US citizens through any crisis without jeopardizing our national security based on misplaced assumptions. We are one of the few countries in the world that provides such an extraordinary safety net for our citizens abroad.

 

As mentioned, the embassy or consulate staff will do everything in their power to provide assistance from the moment the person identifies as an American, but there are some requirements for documentation as such.

[sparks1093]

Happily, in the US our laws and regs mean everything! You will notice in the first sentence I wrote that I said that you will need to be "documented to return to the US," which means simply that you need a travel document to enter the US, not necessarily a passport. However, your identity and citizenship must be established for any travel document to be issued. Otherwise, a foreigner like my husband, who speaks like an American and can talk about Miami Dolphins football all day (I know, poor him!:p) can walk into an embassy and claim to be a US citizen and get a document establishing him as such, just because he walks and talks like one. The system is set up to support and assist US citizens through any crisis without jeopardizing our national security based on misplaced assumptions. We are one of the few countries in the world that provides such an extraordinary safety net for our citizens abroad.

 

As mentioned, the embassy or consulate staff will do everything in their power to provide assistance from the moment the person identifies as an American, but there are some requirements for documentation as such.

 

And the State Department has lines of communication with CBP so it could be a simple matter of ascertaining that passenger x sailed on cruise ship y and said passenger presented WHTI compliant documents at embarkation, right? Then if said passenger presented a government issued ID to the Consulate to verify their identity what more would the Consulate need?

[Maya57]

It all depends on how much risk you are willing to take vs the cost. We always mitigated the risk as much as possible by flying in the day before and taking excursions that were not risky and returned to the ship with hours to spare. In the example you sited, we would have been on the ship when it sailed out of port having been to the port the day before, aware of the hurricane, and watching the cruise updates. The chances of anything happening that would cause you to need a passport are extremely slim on a closed loop and they can vary depending on your own personal factors. One thing for sure is you will not be left stranded in a foreign country and in cases of emergency there are waivers that our government can give you to get home. If it is not an emergency it may cost you a little more in time or money....but the chances are greatly in your favor that you will be on that ship sailing away with it when it leaves anyways.

 

Each family must decide for themselves if the risk is worth the savings. We did not have any passports for our first 9 cruises with absolutely no issues. Our kids still do not have passports because their risk factors did not change. DH & I just got passports because our October cruise is the first one for us with the teens left at home, 16 and 19 year olds who are relatively new drivers. That is the risk that put our factors high enough to be worth getting passports for the 2 of us. It is a personal decision that could change over time as the families risks or travel needs change over time. I am personally not in "the better safe than sorry" group if the risk is to small, IMHO, to be worrying over it....I have other things I could use that money for.

 

But you still run the risk of getting hurt in a port of call and going to the hospital, missing ship. Could even have a medical problem on the ship and they have to transfer you to a hospital missing ship.

 

The cost of a passport is about $13.00 a year, $130.00 divided by 10 years

[TravelDiva88]

But you still run the risk of getting hurt in a port of call and going to the hospital, missing ship. Could even have a medical problem on the ship and they have to transfer you to a hospital missing ship.

 

The cost of a passport is about $13.00 a year, $130.00 divided by 10 years

 

Yes, but unfortunately there's no payment plan for the passport, so if you're talking a family of four, that's an additional $550 (factoring in photo costs) added to the cost of a trip. If a family's not planning on further international travel, it doesn't make sense to spend that money, especially as children's passports have a shorter lifespan.

[quercus alba]

We could have traveled with our 4 kids on the closed-loop Caribbean cruise without passports, but it was worth the expense (especially for the older 2 who are young adults with 10-year terms) to get it done, once and for all, and ensure that they had internationally-accepted documentation of their birth and citizenship. The younger two would have had to get a photo ID anyway, since they don't yet need them for school, and in addition, all four were born in different counties in 2 different states, have differently formatted birth certificates...it was nice to just go through the paper hassle once, and the renewals will be easier when they occur since they've been issued their own passports. Our check in and return through customs was also quite quick and secure--just handed over the passports, and not having to shuffle a collection of other documents.

[Sea Monster 2]

And the State Department has lines of communication with CBP so it could be a simple matter of ascertaining that passenger x sailed on cruise ship y and said passenger presented WHTI compliant documents at embarkation, right? Then if said passenger presented a government issued ID to the Consulate to verify their identity what more would the Consulate need?

 

If CBP itself verified that passenger departing with those docs, yes, that would definitely be taken into consideration. I've never encountered CBP embarking on a cruise from the US, nor departing by air-- it's always been the cruise line or airline checking my docs, not the US govt. But to answer your broader question (I think), ANY evidence of identity and citizenship will be considered in such a case. The fastest route, however, would be if your info and photo was already in the State Dept's system, hence my recommendation-- in any emergency, the fastest and most direct route usually gets you home more quickly.

 

And I have to tell you, having worked for multiple govt entities over the years, I would not want to have to rely on interagency communication to resolve a personal emergency. :rolleyes:

[Warm Breezes]

But you still run the risk of getting hurt in a port of call and going to the hospital, missing ship. Could even have a medical problem on the ship and they have to transfer you to a hospital missing ship.

 

The cost of a passport is about $13.00 a year, $130.00 divided by 10 years

 

Again it is a small risk and the risk is known and accepted by those who sail without passports. Just like I know the risk of getting in my car. FWIW the government does NOT take payment plans and in the end it is $130 x number of family members all at once. For some the risk is not worth the cost for closed loop cruise travel. Their choice.

[bermudabound1]

For me personally a small risk is still a risk. Agree it is costly, however now have a piece of mind that we have a passport if needed. DS is too young to drive so at least this gives him a photo ID as well as proof of citizenship.

I plan to take copies to carry and made copies for family members to keep at home.

 

 

Sent using the Cruise Critic forums app

[Medtech2]

Again it is a small risk and the risk is known and accepted by those who sail without passports. Just like I know the risk of getting in my car. FWIW the government does NOT take payment plans and in the end it is $130 x number of family members all at once. For some the risk is not worth the cost for closed loop cruise travel. Their choice.

No one is arguing your choice.

 

We are all just giving opinions as answers to the OP....

 

My parents got me a passport when I was 10 as my father was military and I guess they thought we'd go overseas at some point. As an adult I kept it renewed. I can tell you that even back in the day (1974) on a highschool trip to Canada it came in handy as our train was held up at the border because a classmate had no proof of ID on him and when questioned he said he was born in Germany (military) but having no passport they wanted to detain him...

 

On another occasion my husband, who had let his passport lapse, almost missed cruising with us for our daughter's highschool graduation trip because we discovered very late that he had no birth certificate. We paid a hefty price to expedite one from Nebraska.

 

The lesson is that whichever method people choose they should make sure they have the proper documentation, which has been well covered in this discussion...

[Warm Breezes]

But you still run the risk of getting hurt in a port of call and going to the hospital, missing ship. Could even have a medical problem on the ship and they have to transfer you to a hospital missing ship.

 

The cost of a passport is about $13.00 a year, $130.00 divided by 10 years

 

No one is arguing your choice.

 

We are all just giving opinions as answers to the OP....

 

My parents got me a passport when I was 10 as my father was military and I guess they thought we'd go overseas at some point. As an adult I kept it renewed. I can tell you that even back in the day (1974) on a highschool trip to Canada it came in handy as our train was held up at the border because a classmate had no proof of ID on him and when questioned he said he was born in Germany (military) but having no passport they wanted to detain him...

 

On another occasion my husband, who had let his passport lapse, almost missed cruising with us for our daughter's highschool graduation trip because we discovered very late that he had no birth certificate. We paid a hefty price to expedite one from Nebraska.

 

The lesson is that whichever method people choose they should make sure they have the proper documentation, which has been well covered in this discussion...

 

Actually I interpreted Maya57 response to my post as arguing my choice....Anything that starts with a "but" usually is.