Gratuities

[ScriptOhio]

I've often wondered if there's an underground data base maintained by stewards listing the deadbeats, so they're known on boarding day! ;)

 

If there's a God...Then there is

 

Yes, I bet there is and they must have several nick names for them...

 

Cheap Cruisers

 

Interesting idea and certainly possible. ;)

 

 

No way, the logistics, coordination, consolidation, and/or storage of all the data among all the stewards on all the ships would make it virtually impossible. Besides there would be nothing to gain from it (and everything to lose):

 

1. If management found out about it, they probably get fired. I'm sure HAL doesn't want any steward to to give any passenger anything less then their "best service".

 

2. What are they going to do with someone was identified as a "non tipper"? Treat them bad, then get bad appraisals/evaluations, and ultimately get fired.

 

3. By the time any "non tipper" comes back (if they do) the stewards current contract would probably be up and they may not even be working on HAL ships anymore.

 

Think about it, even if they wanted to do it when would they have the time, they work over 10 hours a day 7 days a week the way it is.

 

:rolleyes:

[catl331]

Think about it, even if they wanted to do it when would they have the time, they work over 10 hours a day 7 days a week the way it is.

Are you kidding? They DO get free time! In any port where there is free wi-fi in or near the terminal you'll find 5 to 10 stewards sitting there with laptops any time of the day.

 

As far as "coordination", the way the stewards move around from ship to ship the word would spread pretty quickly. In a year or less every steward in the fleet would know about it. I'm sure they already have a word-of-mouth "database" about some frequent cruisers who are problematic.

Edited November 23, 2013 by catl331

[richwmn]

Are you kidding? Any port where there is free wi-fi in or near the terminal you'll find 5 to 10 stewards sitting there with laptops any time of the day.

 

As far as "coordination", the way the stewards move around from ship to ship the word would spread pretty quickly. In a year or less every steward in the fleet would know about it. I'm sure they already have a word-of-mouth "database" about some frequent cruisers who are problematic.

 

In addition, many of us have had experiences where crew members remembered us from cruise to cruise, even on different ships and a year of two later. Many have related experiences with Hunky Dory and Burt Reynolds remembering them. If they remember names and faces they most likely remember other things about the passengers involved.

 

It has also been suggested that the crew members get to see the passenger manifest prior to sailing in case they recognize a name. I don't know if that happens or not, but it might.

[Watson's aunt]

hi

 

I wish HAl would just add hotel service charge to the price of cruise.

 

 

Mary

[jtl513]

1. If management found out about it, they probably get fired.

It could well be that it is management that is maintaining such a database covertly or overtly... that is, the head housekeepers rather than the stewards ... so they can anticipate and maybe even warn their staff about deadbeats, and ignore the passengers' complaint of "poor service" when it happens once again.

 

HAL keeps a lot of info about all of us, and it would not be difficult to tag someone as "habitually removes HSC" in their files. A couple of times I have made minor complaints or suggestions on end-of-cruise satisfaction questionnaire cards and on the next cruise found a letter in the cabin saying "noted" and "we hope we have corrected the problem".

Edited November 23, 2013 by jtl513

[Taxguy77]

From the number of times he's told us this, it does sound like he's bragging about it! ;)

 

Can't win on a HAL site. :rolleyes:

[startwin]

hi

 

I wish HAl would just add hotel service charge to the price of cruise.

 

 

Mary

 

 

Me too, Mary It would eliminate so many problems and stop the arguing about it on here.;)

[Fouremco]

Me too, Mary It would eliminate so many problems and stop the arguing about it on here.;)

Well, it would eliminate the practise of people stopping their HSC. But you'd still have those who believe that the HAL-imposed amount is all that's ever required disputing any need to tip above and beyond with those who think it's normal and necessary, to which you'd now add a whole new group saying that it's totally unfair for HAL to raise their fares and force them to pay "hidden" gratuities. Stop arguing on CC? Hah! :D

[startwin]

Well, it would eliminate the practise of people stopping their HSC. But you'd still have those who believe that the HAL-imposed amount is all that's ever required disputing any need to tip above and beyond with those who think it's normal and necessary, to which you'd now add a whole new group saying that it's totally unfair for HAL to raise their fares and force them to pay "hidden" gratuities. Stop arguing on CC? Hah! :D

 

But it is all that's ever required. It is personal choice if and who you tip extra at the end of your cruise. That part is not a requirement.

[summersigh]

We always keep the HSC on ... then on the last night of the cruise give an extra cash tip to those who gave especially good service. It's a delight to watch their faces when they know how appreciated they are.

 

DH was very ill on our last CCL cruise - we feel he contracted a sort of pneumonia on board as it didn't start until day 4 (he spent the rest of the cruise in bed or on the cabin balcony and ship's MD agreed with our estimation of when he contracted the illness). Our cabin steward was so fantastic - being sure DH had ice 3x a day, fresh sheets daily, being sure DH knew how to order from room service etc etc etc. As we left on the last day we rewarded/thanked him most generously. He gave the service as part of his dedicaction to his job ... we wanted him to know (in cash :) ) how much it was appreciated!

[Ians Grandma]

Somehow, I think that the people who remove the service charge don't care if their names are posted on a list somewhere. They just don't want to pay it, and I bet a lot of them don't tip individuals either.:(

I would prefer decide for myself whom I should tip and I wouldn't care if my name was on a list. Why should I? I don't like the idea of someone trying to "shame" me into tipping. I tip for good service, isn't that the point? Why is it so annoying to so many people? There is the argument about the behind the scenes people, but do you worry about the people who clean the restrooms at McDonalds or press your clothes at the dry cleaners? I don't see those people tipped on land. Why is it a different at sea? If it makes some feel better I do leave the service charge in place but, like I said, it is not my preference. According to some here I am a cheapskate and a female dog, but they are incorrect. I always tip and treat the crew with respect.

[Aussiepair]

We never alter the HSC and usually give a little extra to our cabin stewards and MDR staff because we always get good service.

 

When RCL ships depart from Australian ports there is no HSC, the amount of the HSC is added to the price of the cruise when booking so that there is no option to alter it. The reason for this is because most Australians are not accustomed to tipping because the wage structure in Australia is such that all workers get a fair wage. It is much different in the States where waiters and restaurant staff are on low pay and make up their wage with tips. Most Australians find it hard to tip someone for just doing their job when they in turn don't get tipped for doing their job.

 

If all cruise lines had this policy for all of their cruises it would ensure that the staff all got paid the same and if someone wanted to show their appreciation for exceptional service then they could tip just like anywhere else.

[jtl513]

I wish HAl would just add hotel service charge to the price of cruise.

Much of the argument on this and other similar threads results from people referring to the Hotel Service Charge as a tip or gratuity. It is a charge for services rendered, and the only legitimate reason for removing or decreasing it is if those services are not adequately rendered.

 

As with any product purchase, there must be a method of recompense when the product is defective. I would prefer that HAL not state that the HSC is removable, but simply have a policy of giving account credit or other compensation when circumstances warrant.

Edited November 24, 2013 by jtl513

[ScriptOhio]

Much of the argument on this and other similar threads results from people referring to the Hotel Service Charge as a tip or gratuity. It is a charge for services rendered, and the only legitimate reason for removing or decreasing it is if those services are not adequately rendered.

 

As with any product purchase, there must be a method of recompense when the product is defective. I would prefer that HAL not state that the HSC is removable, but simply have a policy of giving account credit or other compensation when circumstances warrant.

 

Just sayin': It doesn't pass the "duck test", i. e. If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

 

In this case, it is a gratuity!!!

 

Anyway if HAL considers it a mandatory service charge then they should just incorporate it into the overall "cruise fare".

[jtl513]

In this case, it is a gratuity!!!

gra·tu·i·ty (gra-t-t )n. pl. gra·tu·i·ties

A favor or gift, usually in the form of money, given in return for service.

 

The HSC is not a gift given, it is a charge assessed. Cash handed to a steward in addition to the HSC is a gratuity.

 

There are many reasons, most of them tax related, for not including it in the base fare.

...

Edited November 24, 2013 by jtl513

[ScriptOhio]

gra·tu·i·ty (gra-t-t )n. pl. gra·tu·i·ties

A favor or gift, usually in the form of money, given in return for service.

 

The HSC is not a gift given, it is a charge assessed. Cash handed to a steward in addition to the HSC is a gratuity.

 

There are many reasons, most of them tax related, for not including it in the base fare.

...

 

I reference Cruise Critic as the ultimate authority here. :p

 

They refer to it under Cruise Line Tipping Policies: Big-Ship Lines

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/articles.cfm?ID=266

 

Other lines still call it what it is (i.e. a gratuity), examples:

 

1. Carnival automatically adds a $11.50 per-person, per-day gratuity to onboard accounts

 

2. Celebrity Cruises automatically adds gratuities to the onboard Seapass account

 

In this case "hotel service charge" and "gratuity" end up being the same thing.

[Fouremco]

gra·tu·i·ty (gra-t-t )n. pl. gra·tu·i·ties

A favor or gift, usually in the form of money, given in return for service.

 

The HSC is not a gift given, it is a charge assessed. Cash handed to a steward in addition to the HSC is a gratuity.

 

There are many reasons, most of them tax related, for not including it in the base fare.

...

Semantics. What matters is what HAL and its passengers view it to be. If you look in the Cruise Planning FAQ on HAL's website, you'll see a section entitled: Is There A Hotel Service Charge (Gratuity/Tip)?

So, however you might wish to define it, HAL considers the HSC to be a gratuity/tip.

[jtl513]

1. Carnival ...

2. Celebrity Cruises ...

In case you haven't noticed, different cruise lines do things differently. HAL is not Carnival or Celebrity.

If you look in the Cruise Planning FAQ on HAL's website, you'll see a section entitled: Is There A Hotel Service Charge (Gratuity/Tip)?

So, however you might wish to define it, HAL considers the HSC to be a gratuity/tip.

They do not. FAQs wouldn't be of much use if they didn't include the key words that a new customer would use to search for information, now would they?

 

You'll notice that no where else in that section are the words tip or gratuity used until the last sentence where they are talking about off-ship tipping.

 

Our crew works very hard to make sure that every aspect of your cruise meets the highest standards. This includes those crew members who serve you directly, such as Dining Room wait staff and the stewards who service your stateroom each day. There are also many others who support their efforts whom you may never meet, such as galley and laundry staff. To ensure that the efforts of all of our crew members are recognized and rewarded, a daily Hotel Service Charge is automatically added to each guest’s shipboard account.

 

The daily Hotel Service Charge for suites is US$12.00 per guest per day, and US$11.50 per guest per day for other staterooms. (The charges are subject to change without notice)

 

If our service exceeds or fails to meet your expectations, you are free to adjust this amount at the end of each segment and/or voyage. The Hotel Service Charge is paid to Holland America Line crew members, and represents an important part of their compensation. A 15% Bar Service Charge is automatically added to bar charges and Dining Room wine purchases. In terminals, airports, ports of call and on shore excursions, we suggest that you extend gratuities consistent with customary local practices.

Edited November 24, 2013 by jtl513

[ScriptOhio]

Much of everything posted on this forum is personal opinion. ;)

 

Well you got that one right. Everybody does have their own opinion. Mine is that HAL's hotel service charge is just another name for their gratuity/tip.

[jtl513]

Mine is that HAL's hotel service charge is just another name for their gratuity/tip.

If HAL decided to include the HSC in the base fare I would bet that you would no longer call it a gratuity/tip. In fact, it would be the same charge, just paid in advance rather than added daily. Edited November 24, 2013 by jtl513

[Fouremco]

If HAL decided to include the HSC in the base fare I would bet that you would no longer call it a gratuity/tip. In fact, it would be the same charge, just paid in advance rather than added daily.

If it was part of the base fare, passengers would no longer have the existing option of cancelling the gratuity. It's that option that differentiates the gratuity from a non-discretionary charge.

[jtl513]

It's that option that differentiates the gratuity from a non-discretionary charge.

If you buy a toaster with the knowledge that you can get your money back if it is defective, that doesn't make the price a gratuity. If your ship service is inadequate you should get your money back. It is not that ability to get a refund that distinguishes between a gratuity and a charge, rather it is whether the money is given voluntarily or not.

 

As I said several posts ago, I would prefer that HAL not state that the HSC is removable, but simply have a policy of giving account credit or other compensation when circumstances warrant.

 

Obviously I am not going to change your position, nor you mine, so I quit this thread.

Edited November 24, 2013 by jtl513

[summersigh]

IMHO .... We consider the HSC (or whatever name any of the lines we've sailed choose to call it) as part of the cruise fare that's paid on board. We just pay it with the room accounting at the end of the cruise.

 

We then tip staff that we feel went above and beyond in cash at the end of the cruise.

[catl331]

So, however you might wish to define it, HAL considers the HSC to be a gratuity/tip.

Then why don't they call it the Automatic Gratuity?

[Watson's aunt]

Hi

 

I find it funny these people don't go ddown and remove the 15 0/0 on drinks. HALl should have same wording as hotel charge. If you have bad service go down and complain. don't wait yntil the end of cruise and punish the whole staff. The staff that cleaned your room, cooked your meals, made sure you got off ship with ease. delivered and picked up your luggage. the Crew that cleaned ship. Those who did your laundry wahed windows so you could look out. the crew you did not see. made up programs, menu's. a few hundred you did not see.

 

Oh well you saved a couple of hundred dollars.

 

Mary