Jeans at Lunchtime.

[NthernLgts]

I think I saw 2 people in jeans for dinner on my Alaskan cruise in May. Everyone else was dressed in resort casual or nicer.

 

While Princess may be intentionally ambiguous regarding the "hard and fast" rules, they seem to be clear on their intent. It's kinda like the deck chair hogs, smoking in N/S areas (and I'm a cigar smoker), young kids in the hot-tubs, etc... . Just follow the intent of the rules and things usually work better for all.

[bdjam]

The "majority" of cruisers will come to dinner dressed nicely and with an overall appearance that is neat and clean, but this can be accomplished with a nice pair of jeans and dressy top just as easily as it can be with capris or dockers or any of the various other styles that you will see in the dining room on casual nights.

I think whether or not “dressed nicely” includes wearing denim is a matter of opinion. It’s also a matter of opinion what type of denim is “nice.” Does that include stressed denim? Only denim that’s not the color blue? No matter how you cut it, the majority of cruisers do not wear denim in the dining room during the evening meal – I would like to think that’s because they realize they are not appropriate.

Bottom line, many people may not even realize that jeans are supposed to be prohibited due to the contradictory information, but even for those who do, if Princess doesn't take their own rules seriously enough to state them consistently across their various documentations, then they really can't expect people to take following them very seriously either.

This is also a matter of opinion – I personally feel that the Princess documentation is clear enough so that even if it doesn’t say “no jeans” I understand the atmosphere the cruise line is trying to present. If you read all of the documentation, rather than just looking for one or two words, it’s pretty clear that the cruise line is trying to present something less casual than a trip to the mall. Now whether or not people understand that is another story, but I’d like to think we’re all intelligent enough that we don’t need kindergarten level instructions on appropriate dress.

Exactly, in other words the signature states, don't ask for permission to do something, just do it, if need be ask for forgiveness later.

Another matter of opinion – this time mine. I think this is a dangerous attitude and proves that “me” comes first. I know we’re only talking cruise ships here, but if one lives their lives by this philosophy, it provides all sorts of opportunities to step all over other people – and the apology afterwards means nothing except that the person has gotten away with something.

Some folks save and save to be able to go on a nice vacation such as a cruise. They just may not be able to justify spending money on clothes that they will never wear again. Let them be comfortable in their jeans. Why do we as fellow human beings have to make them uncomfortable because of our 'delicate sensibilities'.....geesh

I’m not going to look into anyone’s pocket book and I’m not telling anyone how to finance their lives, but there are plenty of places where “slacks” can be bought for much less than jeans. And doesn’t part of the argument for jeans include the fact that for most they are “dressy” jeans selling for in the neighborhood of $100? And don’t some of the pro-jeans arguments come from those who dress for work every day? Sorry, I don’t think that argument holds water. And personally, if I couldn’t finance the appropriate clothes to wear somewhere, I wouldn’t go. If I don’t have the money for clothes, perhaps I should be spending my vacation money on something else…

Perhaps in the dark ages when they were associated only with manual labour it may have been the case. Fortuanately or unfortuantely, depending on your view, the world has changed and the wearers of jeans have changed. For the most part anyone walking around would not notice someone wearing a pair of coloured jeans. Perhaps if they were wearing the common light blue denim they might, but otherwise I doubt it.

So are does this mean that jeans are OK in the dining room as long as they are not light blue denim? Where does it say that in the Princess publications?

But for some reason, some people think that their personal view that their jeans are not inappropriate is somehow more important than the ship's expressly stated rule that jeans are inappropriate. And these people think that their view should prevail over the ship's rule, even though they knew the ship's rule before they ever arrived on the ship.

Brilliant – this is absolutely correct and what I find most puzzling about this endless discussion - especially given the casual alternatives cruise lines now offer.

Once again, no actual reason for them being inappropriate, just another, "Because they are!".

Denim, by definition, is a casual fabric and jeans, by definition, are casual attire. Princess is asking that their passenger elevate themselves a bit from the casual when eating in the dining room. Contrary to what a few cruise enthusiasts feel, the evening meal in the dining room is supposed to be a higher end experience than what you can get at your local Denny’s. Therefore, denim is not appropriate.

Too casual, casual is casual. What makes them more casual then other things?

See above…

I just now checked Princess' website and even today, a year after I first learned of this debate, the website still contradicts itself by saying that jeans are prohibited on one page and only that "torn" jeans are prohibited on another page. I guess that's an improvement since the last time I looked every page only said "torn" jeans, but it is still far from clear.

Why do we have to comprehend in absolutes? If the publications say no jeans in one place and no torn jeans in another, why doesn’t that mean that neither is appropriate? Are we taking into account the context for which these statements were written – which would mean looking at more than a couple of particular words? Or are we looking for specific words because of the subject of the debate rather than looking at the overall communication objectively?

What I really want to know is WHY does what someone else wear bother you so much, and WHY do you find it offensive. I believe I said before that unless you study up close and personal what people are wearing you wouldn't even know.

For me, what one wears, how they appear, the effort the put into how they present themselves to others tells a lot about who that person is. Even more telling is when someone purposefully ignores suggested dress guidelines.

I will admit that I do not concern myself with what you or anyone else is wearing, whatever it is that you are wearing, be it a tux, jeans, shorts or a bikini, it does not bother me in the slightest, and I find it amazing that anyone else does care and makes such an issue over it.

Most posters who might wear jeans in the dining room for the evening meal seem to feel the same way. But they are also the ones who seem to debate the hardest when these topics come up…that would leave me to believe that dress actually does matter to them.

While Princess may be intentionally ambiguous regarding the "hard and fast" rules, they seem to be clear on their intent.

Thank you… :D

 

[luv2cruise99]

I think whether or not “dressed nicely” includes wearing denim is a matter of opinion.

 

It most certainly is a matter of opinion. In my opinion, a nice pair of jeans (defined as clean, untorn, unfaded and fitting properly) coupled with a dressy top is no more casual than capris or dockers or any number of other styles that people choose to wear on cruises. I find capris to be about the ugliest clothing style imaginable. I have never seen anybody who I think actually looks good in them, but that doesn't mean I am personally offended when I see someone wearing them or that I wish them to be banned from the dining room.

 

This is also a matter of opinion – I personally feel that the Princess documentation is clear enough so that even if it doesn’t say “no jeans” I understand the atmosphere the cruise line is trying to present.

 

I too understand the atmosphere that they are reaching for. The difference of opinion comes in whether or not jeans can fit in that atmosphere. I think they can. In fact, when I am wearing my black jeans you would have to be sitting right next to me running your hand up and down my pants to tell that they are jeans rather than black slacks. If you have to go through that extreme to even tell, then to me they fit in just fine.

 

And doesn’t part of the argument for jeans include the fact that for most they are “dressy” jeans selling for in the neighborhood of $100?

 

I don't know who pays $100 for jeans, but it certainly isn't me. My jeans are the $15.95 Walmart variety. In fact, I have never paid more than $20.00 for a pair of pants in my life and that includes my dress slacks that I wear to work.

 

Clothing doesn't have to be expensive to be nice.

 

Why do we have to comprehend in absolutes? If the publications say no jeans in one place and no torn jeans in another, why doesn’t that mean that neither is appropriate?

 

My point wasn't that jeans are appropriate because one place says no torn jeans. My point was that Princess does not communicate their rules consistently or clearly. I only came across the page that said "no jeans" because I went looking for it. Someone else might only see the page that says "no torn jeans" and assume that means that jeans are okay if they are in good condition.

 

For me, what one wears, how they appear, the effort the put into how they present themselves to others tells a lot about who that person is.

 

I totally agree with this. Again, the difference in opinion comes in whether or not jeans can produce a nice appearance. I believe they can. I'm not talking about dirty, torn, just came from mowing the yard type jeans and I don't believe anyone else here is either.

 

Bottom line, I understand that Princess prohibits jeans in the dining room at dinner. I know that only because I read it on these boards (most cruisers have never even heard of CruiseCritic) and because I went searching for it in the Princess documentation (most people probably don't look as hard as I did). Most people who wear jeans probably do not even realize they are doing anything wrong because the information is so contradictory.

 

My feelings are that if Princess does not care about their own rules enough to communicate them clearly and consistently, then I am not going to care enough to make sure I follow them. Why should I put more thought into their rules than they are? I do, however, put alot of thought into making sure I conform to the atmosphere of the evening by showing up for dinner in clothing that is neat, clean and a step above casual. Believe it or not, this can be done in jeans!

[Alessandrina]

Thank you for your responses to my original question about wearing jeans at lunchtime. I did not think that this question would spark such heated words from members about denim at dinner! ;)

[luv2cruise99]

Thank you for your responses to my original question about wearing jeans at lunchtime. I did not think that this question would spark such heated words from members about denim at dinner! ;)

 

Almost any question about dress code will usually lead to a heated discussion. I think most of us just enjoy a good debate and don't really take it too seriously. Just a little entertainment to lighten an otherwise dreary day at work.

[jbond]

Thank you for your responses to my original question about wearing jeans at lunchtime. I did not think that this question would spark such heated words from members about denim at dinner! ;)

But then you only have 15 posts and only joined the boards in June. Next time try asking about tips, kids, deck chairs or smuggling booze. This board is a wealth of information, but unfortunately certain subjects cause certain posters to impose their opinions on unsuspecting newcomers.

[Opinions]

In choosing a cruise that has a formal night, I have basically chosen to go to a black tie dinner that evening, albeit one where the host has expressly said that a lounge suit would also be appropriate.

 

 

Is it still a black tie dinner if the majority of the men wear a suit instead of formal wear?...If one chooses a cruise expecting a black tie dinner then don't go on a mass market cruise line like Princess.

[spiritkat090909]

Texas Cowboys know how to dress up their jeans (starched so stiff they can walk by themselves)... and topped off with equally starched, fancy long sleeved shirts that cost more than than a couple hours wages... with belt & polished boots that they reserve for SPECIAL occasions. Is it their fault the Yanks don't know to dress up?! :D I just love to watch the hotties in their jeans trying to impress their ladies.

[EKELLEY]

As we have determined, Princess in inconsistant in posting "wearing jeans" in the dining rooms are not allowed & "wearing torn jeans" in the dining rooms are not allowed. Maybe it is a miss print when they state wearing jeans is not allowed & they just forgot to insert the word "torn". How do we know what they mean? I don't think anyone should be critized for something that is not clear. Everyone has their opinion, but no one is right or wrong.

 

Eileen

[Globaliser]

I don't think anybody here has been arguing the appropriateness of wearing jeans on FORMAL night. And I don't think anybody here is talking about pairing their jeans with a t-shirt even on casual night. When paired with a dressy top and pretty jewelry (for the ladies), jeans can be dressed up quite nicely for a CASUAL dinner.

Please read the last sentence of that post. The formal night example demonstrates the point in a way which even the most obtuse reader would have to concede. My last sentence then said "The same applies, less forcefully, to less formal dinners."

 

Normal Princess dinners are not "casual". They are "smart casual", and the cruise line is perfectly clear about what is not "smart casual".

Is it still a black tie dinner if the majority of the men wear a suit instead of formal wear?...If one chooses a cruise expecting a black tie dinner then don't go on a mass market cruise line like Princess.

On the Princess cruise that I have just finished, I think that more than 75% of the men in the dining room were wearing "black tie", in the sense of dinner suit (black or white jacket), dress shirt and bow tie. The vast majority of the rest were wearing a suit. That is what I expected, and what I got.

[luv2cruise99]

Please read the last sentence of that post. The formal night example demonstrates the point in a way which even the most obtuse reader would have to concede. My last sentence then said "The same applies, less forcefully, to less formal dinners."

 

Normal Princess dinners are not "casual". They are "smart casual", and the cruise line is perfectly clear about what is not "smart casual".

 

I did read your entire post but your scenario did not make sense in the discussion of what is appropriate to wear on non-formal nights. Comparing what is appropriate for a FORMAL dinner and what is appropriate for a CASUAL (even SMART CASUAL) dinner just doesn't work. And as I have already pointed out numerous times, the cruiseline is not perfectly clear as to what is not "smart casual".

 

On the Princess cruise that I have just finished, I think that more than 75% of the men in the dining room were wearing "black tie", in the sense of dinner suit (black or white jacket), dress shirt and bow tie. The vast majority of the rest were wearing a suit. That is what I expected, and what I got.

 

If you were on a Princess cruise where 75% of men wore "black tie" then I think you were on a very unusally dressy cruise. On any Princess cruise that I have ever been on, an overwhelming majority of men opted for a dark suit on formal night. But, then again, that really has no bearing over what is appropriate for SMART CASUAL night.

[bdjam]

I did read your entire post but your scenario did not make sense in the discussion of what is appropriate to wear on non-formal nights. Comparing what is appropriate for a FORMAL dinner and what is appropriate for a CASUAL (even SMART CASUAL) dinner just doesn't work. And as I have already pointed out numerous times, the cruiseline is not perfectly clear as to what is not "smart casual".

I think it depends on how you look at things. I concede that some of the Princess literature is confusing, but again, if you read all the words and not just “jeans” I think it’s quite clear what Princess is trying to present on smart casual evenings. Better yet, here’s an example – I was invited to the most traveled passenger lunch when I was on Regal Princess last August. I asked the Captain’s Circle representative what the dress guidelines were – she said “smart casual, no jeans...we insist the Captain wear a tie, we'd like the passengers to dress appropriately too."

If you were on a Princess cruise where 75% of men wore "black tie" then I think you were on a very unusally dressy cruise. On any Princess cruise that I have ever been on, an overwhelming majority of men opted for a dark suit on formal night. But, then again, that really has no bearing over what is appropriate for SMART CASUAL night.

You don’t state your cruising history, but I would suggest it would depend on the Princess cruise you were on. My last cruise was 15 days on Island Princess and the majority of men wore tuxes on formal nights. Not only that, there were a number of men who were dressed in jacket and tie every night – smart casual or not - as did their partners. Princess doesn’t only sail Caribbean around the Caribbean…

Maybe it is a miss print when they state wearing jeans is not allowed & they just forgot to insert the word "torn". How do we know what they mean? I don't think anyone should be critized for something that is not clear.

I’m not sure why the literature has to say either “jeans” or “torn jeans.” Since both are mentioned, I would assume that both are not appropriate. This isn't rocket science folks - it's not necessary that every detail be spelled out exactly so as to get the thing in the air. The intent is quite clear.

[Globaliser]

Comparing what is appropriate for a FORMAL dinner and what is appropriate for a CASUAL (even SMART CASUAL) dinner just doesn't work.

It is, because the attitude of the guideline-ignoring wearer is the same in both situations. And it's the attitude that is the fundamental problem.

 

Maybe I was fortunate on that cruise. It had been a long time since I was last on Princess. Maybe I should lower my expectations if I cruise to other destinations on the line.

[EKELLEY]

I’m not sure why the literature has to say either “jeans” or “torn jeans.” Since both are mentioned, I would assume that both are not appropriate. This isn't rocket science folks - it's not necessary that every detail be spelled out exactly so as to get the thing in the air. The intent is quite clear.

 

Why would you assume both are not appropriate. If they mean "no torn jeans" then untorn jeans would be appropriate. Why do you think the way you interpret the guidelines is correct? I guess we will never know what Princess means until they publish the same wording in all their literature.

 

Eileen

[LARGIN]

Why would you assume both are not appropriate. If they mean "no torn jeans" then untorn jeans would be appropriate. Why do you think the way you interpret the guidelines is correct? I guess we will never know what Princess means until they publish the same wording in all their literature.

 

Eileen

 

Because in other guidelines, in fact the majority of them it says NO JEANS !!

[bdjam]

Why would you assume both are not appropriate. If they mean "no torn jeans" then untorn jeans would be appropriate. Why do you think the way you interpret the guidelines is correct? I guess we will never know what Princess means until they publish the same wording in all their literature.

Sorry to disagree yet again, but I know exactly what Princess means. Based on my experience, my discussions with staff on board, my correspondence with Princess’ land based office. And based on my reading of the literature they publish…I’ve said it a number of times, but if one reads all the words they print – like they’d want one to – it’s pretty clear Princess has not set out to offer a dining experience at the local food court where it’s come as you please in the dining room. And it seems that the majority of passengers on board Princess ships know what they mean as well - or at least they dress like they know what Princess means. Further, if I didn't know what they meant, I'd dress on the side of caution to make sure I wasn't out of place or disrespectful to others.

[jbond]

I Not only that, there were a number of men who were dressed in jacket and tie every night – smart casual or not - as did their partners.

I assume their partners were also male. In all my cruise experiences, I have yet to see a lady in a jacket and tie. I have however, led a very sheltered life.

Sorry to disagree yet again, but I know exactly what Princess means.

That must be so wonderful to know exactly what Princess means, when so many people who have added to this thread are confused by Princess's duplicity in their quoted standard. Isn't it that lack of definition that has led to the many differing opinions, or are you so certain of your understanding that you cannot accept any one else's opinion?

[cruise fairy]

Because, to put it bluntly, because these people know what they have been asked to do, they know that the majority of the community around them are prepared to comply, and yet they just say "Up yours! My views are more important to me." That is what I find offensive.

 

If you don't understand that point of view, well, that then just speaks volumes. It is hardly surprising that we live in a yob culture, for that is what that attitude is.

 

I don't believe everyone that doesn't comply with the 'majority' has an "up yours!" attitude. There are many reasons a person may wear jeans to the dining room:eek: Horrors....their lower extremities are covered with a denim fabric, what is going to happen to society!

 

1. IT IS NOT CLEAR IN THE PRINCESS INFORMATION THAT JEANS ARE NOT ALLOWED IN THE DINING ROOM FOR DINNER....one site "suggests" jeans not be worn in the dining room, another only mentions "torn jeans".

2. Maybe their luggage was lost at the airport --- has happened on more than one occasion on each cruise.

3. Maybe jeans are what they wear in their everyday lives and they don't have to means to pay for a cruise and new wardrobe.

 

What I find most offensive and pompous are those that look for the bad in people rather than the good.

 

Its a pair of jeans for heaven's sake.....get over yourself:D

[lkmamom]

The first suggestion I am going to write on my suggestions to Princess card following the cruise is to clarify the jeans vs no torn jeans issue:)

[spongerob]

There is nothing wrong with the documentation. Torn jeans are never permitted, period. Jeans might be acceptable on embarkation day, to give those who might not have received their luggage a chance to dine in whatever traveling clothes they have chosen, and of course for breakfast and lunch where the restrictions on dress are quite clear.

[regnig]

I for the life of me can not figure out what all the confusion is about. Directly off Princess's web site is the following -

 

"Smart Casual Evenings:

Passengers dress as they would for a fine restaurant at home.

• Skirts/dresses, slacks, and sweaters for ladies

• Pants and open-neck shirts for men

In the dining room, items such as cutoff T-shirts, shorts, halter tops, and jeans are not permitted; shoes must be worn at all times. "

 

I guess if someone waits until they get there cruise package to plan what they are going to pack :eek: there might be confusion if it states something different - but really folks what is the big deal about no jeans? :confused: With the money one pays for a cruise something like slacks for women or Docker type pants for men really shouldn't be a problem. Maybe this is just a "you can't tell me what to do" issue. I view it as a "respect of others" type situation and find it hard to believe that the t-shirt/jeans kind of person, and I'm one of those, would be so horribly uncomfortabe for the length of a meal that it would ruin their entire cruise.

[Fantazy]

In the dining room, items such as cutoff T-shirts, shorts, halter tops, and jeans are not permitted; shoes must be worn at all times.

 

Ok, not to start another debate....but Halter Tops? May I ask the reasoning behind this?

Also, does Halter Tops include Halter style evening gowns? (No, this is not a joke, but a serious question as one of my daughters evening gowns is halter style)

[kayred]

I am interested in what you think about the following thoughts....

 

Many have said they don't object to jeans but they would not wear them because they are against the guidelines. Others have said NO JEANS very firmly.

 

I wonder if age has anything to do with their opinions? Are jeans less offensive to younger generations than older?

I wonder if a man in jeans would be more acceptable than a woman in jeans?

Does the color of the jeans make any difference?

Were there other typical objections when cruise lines started informal nights, or started allowing women to wear pants?

 

 

These topics won't change anyone's thoughts. I am not sure they even help anyone who is uniformed. I do think they say a lot about people and I do think they are interesting

[regnig]

Ok, not to start another debate....but Halter Tops? May I ask the reasoning behind this?

Also, does Halter Tops include Halter style evening gowns? (No, this is not a joke, but a serious question as one of my daughters evening gowns is halter style)

 

Halter top gowns are just fine. What they are trying to stop is the casual sporty things that let it all hang out the the younger crowd seems to love wearing with shorts and pants. Those are ok onboard, just not in the dinning room. Your daughter will feel comfortable and look beautiful in her evening gown.

[riekl]

No, actually they do not, as has been stated, the information is not definite, and is contradictory.

 

It is also only suggested dress, it is not a requirement.

 

When something is stated as casual, people believe it to be casual, that jeans are "too casual" for you, does not mean that it is "too casual" for others. That you do not think of jeans as "resort casual" or "smart casual" does not make it offensive or wrong.

 

What I really want to know is WHY does what someone else wear bother you so much, and WHY do you find it offensive. I believe I said before that unless you study up close and personal what people are wearing you wouldn't even know.

 

I will admit that I do not concern myself with what you or anyone else is wearing, whatever it is that you are wearing, be it a tux, jeans, shorts or a bikini, it does not bother me in the slightest, and I find it amazing that anyone else does care and makes such an issue over it.

 

Cheers,

Peter

 

Point #1 ) They are NOT "casual" nights they are "smart-casual" nights. Smart casual is clearly described in every spot. Just because a few do not specifically mention all jeans as being forbidden, the description of "smart-casual" alone forbids them.

 

Point #2 ) What people are wearing has an effect on the "atmosphere" you can not deny this. People pay for a fine dining atmosphere and jeans detract from this and is why they are not allowed. Now if you don't care about the lowered atmosphere that is fine, that is your opinion. But many, many people do care and is why jeans are not permitted at dinner.

 

I find it odd that you can not see why what others wear would effect those expecting a fine dining experience and atmosphere. People need to understand it is not "everyone for themselves" that is what is most wrong with the world today. You need to understand that everything you do has effect on others and you should take that into consideration before performing your actions.