Solstice class to be banned from Venice?

[MicCanberra]

Ships will not be banned from Venice. There will be a limit to how many can use the canal that borders much of central Venice. Ships will still be allowed to enter the cruise port from a different direction. There should be no change in the number of ships visiting.

 

One of the reports mentioned that 650 ships visit each year. Yet, it also mentions that only 5 ships per day will be allowed to use the current route. Divide those 650 ships by 365 days and that averages out to less than 2 ships per day. If no more than 5 ships visit each day, it appears that nothing will change.

To my knowledge the ban was to effect the Grand Canal and have the ships circle the Guidecca Island part of Venice.:D

[Iamthesea]

I am so glad that we were able to sail out of Venice on the Silhouette last May. :)

[UniPac]

Goes to the port authority and their gov't appendages but not to the organization whining on about the view.... err I mean the environmental disaster unfolding around cruise ships of 96,001 tons and over. :p

 

I was referring to the head of the local council, Giorgio Orsoni, saying "The 2 million passengers who disembark spend very little, maybe just buying a drink."

 

I thought if nobody would get off the ship and therefor don't spend a single buck he (local council) would still benefit from port taxes/fees.

At least he showed what is really of concern for him - spending money. So if every visitor would spend more money, ships would still be allowed... or what?!?

[MicCanberra]

I was referring to the head of the local council, Giorgio Orsoni, saying "The 2 million passengers who disembark spend very little, maybe just buying a drink."

 

I thought if nobody would get off the ship and therefor don't spend a single buck he (local council) would still benefit from port taxes/fees.

At least he showed what is really of concern for him - spending money. So if every visitor would spend more money, ships would still be allowed... or what?!?

 

Apparently visitors leave too much rubbish which costs more to remove than what Venice council receives from having the visitor come in the first place. Perhaps less packaging may be the answer or increase the price of the packaging in any case.:D

[Pobman]

Apparently visitors leave too much rubbish which costs more to remove than what Venice council receives from having the visitor come in the first place. Perhaps less packaging may be the answer or increase the price of the packaging in any case.:D

 

This reminds me of The Hitchhickers Guide To the Galaxy "...the fabulously beautiful planet Bethselamin is now so worried about the cumulative erosion by ten billion visiting tourists a year that any net imbalance between the amount you eat and the amount you excrete while on the planet is surgically removed from your body weight when you leave: so every time you go to the lavatory there it is vitally important to get a receipt."

[drb]

WOW, simply WOW !!!!!!!

Sorry folks, cruise ships and their passengers do not have a "right" to travel anywhere they please. When I travel I am a guest and it is my responsibility to be respectful of the needs and desires of the inhabitants of the place I am visiting. I am not a hydrologist nor am I an engineer and I would not begin to believe that I have any understanding of the effects of cruise ships in the canals of Venice however large or small they may be. You may not like the decision that has been made but that decision belongs to the citizens of Venice and not to a group of cruisers who apparently believe they should be allowed to travel whenever and wherever they please and that the citizens of the ports they visit should bow down to their mighty tourist dollars.

No wonder the image of the "ugly American" is so widely seen abroad.

Doug

[boogs]

WOW, simply WOW !!!!!!!

Sorry folks, cruise ships and their passengers do not have a "right" to travel anywhere they please. When I travel I am a guest and it is my responsibility to be respectful of the needs and desires of the inhabitants of the place I am visiting. I am not a hydrologist nor am I an engineer and I would not begin to believe that I have any understanding of the effects of cruise ships in the canals of Venice however large or small they may be. You may not like the decision that has been made but that decision belongs to the citizens of Venice and not to a group of cruisers who apparently believe they should be allowed to travel whenever and wherever they please and that the citizens of the ports they visit should bow down to their mighty tourist dollars.

No wonder the image of the "ugly American" is so widely seen abroad.

Doug

 

WOW, simply WOW !!!!!!! Where in the world did this rant come from? I don't see a flood of cruisers complaining about this decision. Sure, there is some disappointment regarding a wonderful view while on a ship passing entering or leaving, but no one is blasting the locals for being unreasonable. Cruisers will still be able to visit Venice, only not by the usual route.

 

Pour yourself a glass of wine and relax!

Edited November 7, 2013 by boogs

[drb]

WOW, simply WOW !!!!!!! Where in the world did this rant come from? I don't see a flood of cruisers complaining about this decision.

!) Posters claiming there is no reason for concern A Sixth; rjrpar

2) Posters claiming it is all about money or an "agenda" Gianni15 ;UniPac

[fortinweb]

!) Posters claiming there is no reason for concern A Sixth; rjrpar

2) Posters claiming it is all about money or an "agenda" Gianni15 ;UniPac

 

Like any dysfunctional government (take the US for example) there will be politicians posturing for votes, fabricating or twisting facts to satisfy their own agenda, and undoing things that have been working well for decades to satisfy their own vision. As someone who has been following this development for years, this does appear to be more about politics than actual environmental concerns. You could call them the "Espresso Party" faction of the Italian government. :D

 

Still, it's their country and city. The have as much of a right as we have to change their laws to satisfy the extremists. ;)

Edited November 7, 2013 by fortinweb

[Minoushka]

Knowing this ban should companies not create smaller ships or deploy those they already have to places like Venice.......e??i guess bigger ....think Oasis...... is not really better

[TomTN]

We spent two nights in Venice before our cruise on the Shilouette last May. My guess is todays giant over sized cruise ships add at least 10,000 tourist per day to the rather small area of Venice. At times it is almost impossible to board a Vaporetto or walk around.

 

Venice was much more enjoyable 5 and 10 years ago before the megaships arrived.:(

[ariawoman]

Keep an eye on your itinerary. There's going to be a 20% cut on large ships going in next year, that will be affecting itineraries already in place.

 

We are starting and ending in Venice, so I'll be surprised. Honestly I'd rather it be out of Rome (just easier flight wise) LOL

[Mark_K]

We spent two nights in Venice before our cruise on the Shilouette last May. My guess is todays giant over sized cruise ships add at least 10,000 tourist per day to the rather small area of Venice. At times it is almost impossible to board a Vaporetto or walk around.

 

Venice was much more enjoyable 5 and 10 years ago before the megaships arrived.:(

Only if you count pre/post visiting days. Otherwise, the ship port load average is closer to 5k per day in the summer, less at other times of year.

 

 

Sent using the Cruise Critic forums app

[boogs]

We spent two nights in Venice before our cruise on the Shilouette last May. My guess is todays giant over sized cruise ships add at least 10,000 tourist per day to the rather small area of Venice. At times it is almost impossible to board a Vaporetto or walk around.

 

Venice was much more enjoyable 5 and 10 years ago before the megaships arrived.:(

 

We never visit Venice during the high season. Just too crowded, even without any ships in port. We've been there in March, April and November. There were always tourists, but never super crowded. If we ever go again, it would probably be in April again. The height of the tourist season hasn't started, so the locals aren't as fed up with us. The weather is cool and comfortable. And the canals don't smell as bad as they do when it has been hot for several days. It's all about timing. Go when every body else is going, it's going to be crowded.

 

We always stay for two or three nights, whether we are on a cruise that starts or ends there, or on a land vacation, so the local economy certainly get's more than the price of a drink out of us. We've been there twice due to cruises, both times staying two extra nights. We typically spend $300 to $400 per day for hotel, food, gifts and admission/tours, so the intolerant attitude of some local activists that we don't contribute to the economy is insulting.

Edited November 7, 2013 by boogs

[terrierjohn]

WOW, simply WOW !!!!!!!

Sorry folks, cruise ships and their passengers do not have a "right" to travel anywhere they please. When I travel I am a guest and it is my responsibility to be respectful of the needs and desires of the inhabitants of the place I am visiting. I am not a hydrologist nor am I an engineer and I would not begin to believe that I have any understanding of the effects of cruise ships in the canals of Venice however large or small they may be. You may not like the decision that has been made but that decision belongs to the citizens of Venice and not to a group of cruisers who apparently believe they should be allowed to travel whenever and wherever they please and that the citizens of the ports they visit should bow down to their mighty tourist dollars.

No wonder the image of the "ugly American" is so widely seen abroad.

Doug

I suspect that if the good citizens of Venice were given a referendum on this issue then the vote would quite possibly be to allow cruise ships to continue as now.

But of course Italy, like the US & UK, is a democracy run by politicians who feel that the last thing they should allow their electorate is a say in their own future.

[A Sixth?]

!) Posters claiming there is no reason for concern A Sixth; rjrpar

2) Posters claiming it is all about money or an "agenda" Gianni15 ;UniPac

 

 

Other than eye-sore.... and claims that cruise ship passengers don't spend any money at all while in Venice I have not been able to find any evidence of "devastating environmental damage" done by cruise ships over 96,000 tons. visiting Venice.

 

Do you have a link to a study that suggests such a thing?

Edited November 7, 2013 by A Sixth?

[Terpnut]

WOW, simply WOW !!!!!!!

Sorry folks, ...

No wonder the image of the "ugly American" is so widely seen abroad.

Doug

Uh, more than half of the posts to which you refer are not from Americans... :rolleyes:

[evandbob]

Other than eye-sore.... and claims that cruise ship passengers don't spend any money at all while in Venice I have not been able to find any evidence of "devastating environmental damage" done by cruise ships over 96,000 tons. visiting Venice.

 

Do you have a link to a study that suggests such a thing?

 

 

a simple quick google search on "Venice and Cruise Ships" turned up the following, there are others if you care to look: http://www.wmf.org/project/venice

 

I'm not taking sides, but when we cruised through the canal on the Crown Princess in Sept 2012, we were amazed at the sights from our balcony, and took lots of photos. At the same time, we spoke about the delicate state of Venice's existence, recalling that we read higher ocean forecasts and "sinking" buildings. Three weeks after we were there, the annual monsoon rains began and St Mark's was under 2 - 3' of water.

 

Is the dredging of the canal to blame? One would have to research this more, as there are studies out there if one chooses to look.

[celebritydave]

We spent two nights in Venice before our cruise on the Shilouette last May. My guess is todays giant over sized cruise ships add at least 10,000 tourist per day to the rather small area of Venice. At times it is almost impossible to board a Vaporetto or walk around.

 

Venice was much more enjoyable 5 and 10 years ago before the megaships arrived.:(

 

Yes, I remember those days.

[A Sixth?]

a simple quick google search on "Venice and Cruise Ships" turned up the following, there are others if you care to look: http://www.wmf.org/project/venice

 

I'm not taking sides, but when we cruised through the canal on the Crown Princess in Sept 2012, we were amazed at the sights from our balcony, and took lots of photos. At the same time, we spoke about the delicate state of Venice's existence, recalling that we read higher ocean forecasts and "sinking" buildings. Three weeks after we were there, the annual monsoon rains began and St Mark's was under 2 - 3' of water.

 

Is the dredging of the canal to blame? One would have to research this more, as there are studies out there if one chooses to look.

 

Interesting that The influx of visitors debarking in fragile historic areas has likewise affected the quality of life for residents, contributing to a 50% decline in the city’s population over the past decade.

 

I can kinda see that, but it ignores other factors like the extreme cost of living in Venice as well as declining Italian economic times, the complexity of "living" in Venice... I have a work mate who daughter lives there and it's a love / hate thing with her (more love because she's been there 15+ years and counting)

 

All dredging aside, the best thing that's happened to Venice is the nearing of the completion of the Moses Flood-Protection System that BTW passed its first big test last month.

 

http://inhabitat.com/the-moses-flood-protection-system-passes-its-first-test-in-venice-italy/

Edited November 7, 2013 by A Sixth?

[boogs]

....we spoke about the delicate state of Venice's existence, recalling that we read higher ocean forecasts and "sinking" buildings. Three weeks after we were there, the annual monsoon rains began and St Mark's was under 2 - 3' of water.

 

Is the dredging of the canal to blame? One would have to research this more, as there are studies out there if one chooses to look.

 

High tides called "acqua alta" (high water) have plagued Venice since the 6th century. The first record is dated October 17, 589. It is not a new phenomena.

 

These high tides typically occur in the late fall and early winter. They are due to storms out in the Adriatic Sea which push water towards the Italian mainline and into the Venice lagoon. Lowered barometric pressures at this time of the year allow water levels to raise due to the lesser weight of the air above it. Add to that the normal tidal flows caused by the moon, and you end up with a triple threat to the water levels in Venice. These occurrences have become more frequent in recent years, with climate change being a main reason.

 

Many solutions have been attempted throughout the years, most of which failed. There is now a controversial construction project under way to create barriers at the three entrances to the lagoon. These will be closed off during acqua alta events. The expectation is that the high water problems will be lessened, but not completely eliminated. This is due to the fact that virtually all of Venice is built on wooden poles sunk into the soft clay under the city. Over the eons, these poles, and the buildings and land on top of them, have slowly been sinking, some due to the soft ground the poles are sunk into, and some due to the poles rotting and no longer supporting their weight. The sinking can only be stopped by replacing these millions of poles, a task that will never occur.

 

A fear that is surfacing is with the gate system in place, with it's partial blocking of the channel openings even when the gates are retracted, the water in the lagoon will not be flushed out effectively, creating "dead" water that won't be able to harbor aquatic life. The fact that Venice's sewer system drains directly into the lagoon - there is no sewage treatment plant in Venice - has many people concerned that the restricted channel openings will turn the lagoon into a huge cesspool over time.

Edited November 7, 2013 by boogs

[MicCanberra]

This reminds me of The Hitchhickers Guide To the Galaxy "...the fabulously beautiful planet Bethselamin is now so worried about the cumulative erosion by ten billion visiting tourists a year that any net imbalance between the amount you eat and the amount you excrete while on the planet is surgically removed from your body weight when you leave: so every time you go to the lavatory there it is vitally important to get a receipt."

LOL, just another reason why I do not want to visit Bethselamin.:D

[MicCanberra]

High tides called "acqua alta" (high water) have plagued Venice since the 6th century. The first record is dated October 17, 589. It is not a new phenomena.

 

These high tides typically occur in the late fall and early winter. They are due to storms out in the Adriatic Sea which push water towards the Italian mainline and into the Venice lagoon. Lowered barometric pressures at this time of the year allow water levels to raise due to the lesser weight of the air above it. Add to that the normal tidal flows caused by the moon, and you end up with a triple threat to the water levels in Venice. These occurrences have become more frequent in recent years, with climate change being a main reason.

 

Many solutions have been attempted throughout the years, most of which failed. There is now a controversial construction project under way to create barriers at the three entrances to the lagoon. These will be closed off during acqua alta events. The expectation is that the high water problems will be lessened, but not completely eliminated. This is due to the fact that virtually all of Venice is built on wooden poles sunk into the soft clay under the city. Over the eons, these poles, and the buildings and land on top of them, have slowly been sinking, some due to the soft ground the poles are sunk into, and some due to the poles rotting and no longer supporting their weight. The sinking can only be stopped by replacing these millions of poles, a task that will never occur.

 

A fear that is surfacing is with the gate system in place, with it's partial blocking of the channel openings even when the gates are retracted, the water in the lagoon will not be flushed out effectively, creating "dead" water that won't be able to harbor aquatic life. The fact that Venice's sewer system drains directly into the lagoon - there is no sewage treatment plant in Venice - has many people concerned that the restricted channel openings will turn the lagoon into a huge cesspool over time.

Thanks Boogs, very informative and a little bit disturbing at the same time.:D

Edited November 7, 2013 by MicCanberra

[A Sixth?]

Thanks Boogs, very informative and a little bit disturbing at the same time.:D

 

Rather ironic that the fear of the lagoon becoming a sewage-y mess is because while cruise ships have sewage treatment systems, Venice doesn't. :(

[Iluvcruising2]

We are cruising to Venice later this Nov on the Solistice class. Phew!!