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Warning!!! Sega Key Master/Ipad/CASH game-You CAN`T Win

TNCruzer56

By TNCruzer56,
in Cruise Casinos

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Artemus

Artemus

Posted
Posted

I appreciate this thread being posted. This game gives the illusion of being a game of skill. I think it is a bit of a scam. I gave up $30 on my last cruise thinking it was a game of skill. I'll never put another cent into one of these machines.

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dna1990

dna1990

Posted
Posted

I believe it was the Magic that had the row of fishing slot machines. Every so often the reel would shake as you jiggled it around to catch a fish up on the big screen. I won almost $100.

 

Now you are telling me that was not due to my years of fishing experience and extreme skill with a fishing rod?

 

Rejoin the Matrix already.

  • Haha 1
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DJZS

DJZS

Posted
Posted
I give up!

 

I was trying to advise all, that this is not a game of skill, but a rigged machine that has calculated pay-outs.

 

If you watch the players...they are leaning left or right, up & down...really trying to line the key up to the hole. To me, they are believing in skill and patience.

 

Thought I was helping my fellow cruzers $$$ by exposing this scam.

 

Slots have calculated payouts too..... However, this IS a skill game. You just have to get a feel for how off it is, and play accordingly. While a slot may have a certain payout rate, this does too. Its not that the 700th person will win, its that 1 in 700 wins. And, that's an average. it could be 2 wins in one group of 700 and none the next 700.

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clcjdn

clcjdn

Posted
Posted

I too have read the manuals and also saw that the plays per payout can be adjusted up to 1 in 9,999 plays. I am not sure exactly what the casinos set it at, but would be willing to bet that they are not leaving the default 1 in 700 mentioned previously. I have decided to treat this like a slot machine and play it everyone once in a while, rather than playing a whole bunch of turns in a row. I just got off the 10 day Southern Caribbean on the NCL Sun. There was one IPAD and cash winner on the 3rd day. By day 6 they had replaced the prize. The winner was announced on the microphone when it happened. In the past on Carnival ships they have not replaced the prizes during the trip (makes me think they set it for a weekly payout potential). I believe this is a hybrid of both luck and skill in order to win, but I have not personally won on this or the tower or the cash cube, but like I said, I will throw a few bucks into them just to see if I can get "lucky". Thanks!

Joe

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  • 1 month later...
Ambiverol

Ambiverol

Posted
Posted

TNCruzer,

 

Thanks for the info. I spend a fair amount of time in the casinos, and knew this machine stunk. I completely understand what you are trying to say.

 

The people who are disagreeing with you are using a classic straw man argument. You are saying, "This is presented as a game of skill, but is just a fancy slot machine." They are saying, "Of course a casino makes money" and "I consider the $ lost in the casino as entertainment, I don't plan on making $ there." That's all great, and true, but has nothing to do with what you exposed to the forum.

 

I've meant to research this machine, but never remembered upon returning home. I've seen groups of people spend hours at this thing. They'll have spotters acting as micrometers instructing the operator of the exact time to stop. People exclaim, "Oh my God, just a tiny bit lower next time!".

 

Your title was slightly misleading I suppose. Of course you can win, but it's in the same manner as winning a slot machine jackpot (RNG); not bowling a perfect game (skill). There must be a low level of skill built in, because I doubt the machine will drop a prize if you are nowhere near a hole, but that's negligible.

 

This is how Sega describes key master:

"Key Master will test your player's skills as they try to unlock prizes by putting the key in “just” the right spot!"

 

That, along with the presentation of the machine, and the behavior of people playing it prove to me that this is deceitful. When I googled Key Master to see how Sega describes it, I also saw that a federal class action lawsuit was initiated in November accusing the game of being rigged. I'm no fan of frivolous lawsuits, but this one may have teeth.

 

Maybe they'll be forced to prominently display a sign; "This machine is a game of chance. The probability of winning is set by the owner, and winners are determined by a random number generator. You can place the key in the exact same spot 99 times and lose. You can then place it there for the 100th time and win!"

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QuiGonJohn

QuiGonJohn

Posted
Posted (edited)

This link, to the manual, no longer works. Can anyone find a link for the manual that does work?

 

I did find a link to a video and in it he shows a page from the manual, with the payout rates and compulsory upper deviation.

 

http://www.terryfischer.com/the-casio-vault-chance-or-skill/

 

Actually, I might have found a link for the manual, from another post on the web.

 

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0ByDQSQMHW6faNXZUMzhtaUE4UFE/edit

Edited by QuiGonJohn
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sailor_jimc

sailor_jimc

Posted
Posted

Interesting looking at the Manual for the Key master. So from that there are settings for the payouts for each of the 3 prize rows. Factory default settings is 700 credits on each line before a payout (but there is also a setting to allow it to be completely random which I doubt very highly they would use that setting) The default is 700 credits but it can be set for anything 1-9999. I think its safe to assume its more than 700 else the casino could loose money.

 

So talking the iPAD version of the game, I would bet that the lowest row has a lower credit threshold between wins than the upper row where you win the iPAD+cash. Which only makes sense. So if you knew when the machine paid out last and watch it, you could in theory know when the machine was "winnable" based on how much money was poured into the machine.

 

But it definitely proves that the machine is NOT random AND it is not completely skill based. And now when I walk by I can chuckle when I hear people say "you were so close... a couple of more tries and you will have it dialed in...."

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  • 3 weeks later...
unboringuy

unboringuy

Posted
Posted

While the machine is located in the casino, I think most people believe it is a game of skill. It seems to me one way around the problem is to conspicuously label the machine as being a "game of chance."

 

I've tried it numerous times, and I never succeeded.

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pathi

pathi

Posted
Posted
I'm wondering, At the beginning of the cruise, the machine is completely full. As the cruise sails on, the machine starts to empty out a bit. Does someone actually win, where you see an empty spot? Or does a casino employee maybe empty a slot or 2, after closing? To make people believe that, YES, people ARE winning? Just my thoughts. But, I have actually witnessed 1 or 2 people beating the machine. I have also seen people pour a lot of money into one, and win Nothing.

 

 

I won the Ipad/500.00 on my Alaska cruise last year. It left 1 empty slot in the machine the rest of the week. This was on the Golden Princess.

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