SDI - Jan. 11 sailing from San Juan

[WAO]

Anyone else going on this voyage? Is the engine issue having any effect on the current sailings or activities aboard ship?

 

Our 6th voyage on SD but first one on SDI -- cannot wait to go!

[orchard hill]

Anyone else going on this voyage? Is the engine issue having any effect on the current sailings or activities aboard ship?

 

Our 6th voyage on SD but first one on SDI -- cannot wait to go!

 

My wife and I will be aboard for our first SD voyage and are looking forward to the experience.

[flygod]

We'll be getting off in SJ.

 

Hopefully the engine is still broke and we take twice as long to get there from Panama:) !

[Jim Avery]

We'll be getting off in SJ.

 

Hopefully the engine is still broke and we take twice as long to get there from Panama:) !

 

that might be possible.:eek: Steaming at 8 knots 24 hours a day (no stops) it should take nearly 8 days from Colon to SJU.:eek:

[WAO]

Orchard Hill, look forward to meeting you and your wife. You will really enjoy the SD experience. We enjoy the small-ship experience and cannot find another line that duplicates the service on SD. We are getting into San Juan a few days early. You?

[orchard hill]

WAO, looking forward to meeting you as well. We arrive Thursday evening, thought we would take a day to explore Old San Juan before embarkation on Saturday.

[flygod]

Well Jim, I make it about 1,000nm direct from Colon to San Juan.

 

And going via all the stops, I make it around 220 nm to San Andres, 440 on to Jamaica, another 440-ish to Dominica and then 160-ish to San Juan.

 

From an old SD trans-Atlantic post:

 

"We will go down to one engine because required speed until san Juan is now only 10 knots, we have been crossing with almost 15 knot’s average since we left Lisbon, we have used currents in the ocean to make this happened."

 

So I am hoping for 10kts, and maybe we'll be dropping Isla San Andres to shave off a corner. Otherwise 1300nm at 10kts is 130 hours - five and a half days of steaming.

 

Now will the captain want to do that on one engine? Slowed to 9 kts, that would be six full days - so pretty much non-stop since we lose about 12 hours due to a 6pm departure on Day One and a 7am arrival on Day 7.

 

With schedule of:

 

Colon: evening, we would take 22 hours to get to SA - so if we left at 6pm we would arrive about 4pm instead of midday.

 

San Andres. Meant to left in afternoon, but if only arrive at 4pm-ish....?

 

Day at sea and then arrive Jamaica in morning for afternoon departure.

 

But 440nm at 10 per hour is just four hours short of two days....?

 

So if we arrived in SA at 4pm and left immediately, we would get to Jamaica at 2pm, for an afternoon departure.

 

Then another 42 hours to Dominica. So arrive there at c10am if we left Jamaica as soon as we arrived.

 

Then it would be 16 hours to SJU. So we can have the Splash on board!

 

Oh well, it adds to the adventure!

[Jim Avery]

It could well work that way. I was using the traditional sea lanes for that part of the world and making allowances for some of the more prominent currents. Probably overthinking it.:D 8 to 9 knots is what has been mentioned as one engine cruise speed. About what I would expect, having had a one engine down for months situation onboard one of my ships. I hope they find a new crank soon. As Lois asked: "isn't the other one the same age?":eek:

[flygod]

Oh well. It is official.

 

No San Andres and no La Romana.

 

Some spa credit and a discount off a future cruise.

 

Good news for the January 11th crew. SD1 will be there!

[Zimmy]

Relative to flygod's reference to currents, on the trip from Barbados to Balboa, we had strong currents in our favor the entire trip west after the engine blew. Sometimes as much as 7kn. That fact, plus the omission of two ports-of-call, enabled us to make our 7 am appointment with the pilot at the entrance to the canal. Had the currents been against us, we might still be in the Caribbean. Zimmy's DH

[cburger100]

Crankshaft? We can send men to the Space Station to repair a part while floating and freezing and no crankshaft for SD? If the other engine has a crankshaft, why can't someone fabricate one?

[Jim Avery]

Crankshaft? We can send men to the Space Station to repair a part while floating and freezing and no crankshaft for SD? If the other engine has a crankshaft, why can't someone fabricate one?

 

The problem, as explained to me, is that the engines are long out of production and an existing spare crank has not been found. To set up tooling to fabricate a custom one off crankshaft for an engine this size is horrendously expensive. Yes, it can be done but, as usual, it all boils down to costs. But then compensating passengers for missed itinerary stops seems rather expensive as well. Not a good position to be in for SeaDream.

[cburger100]

Are new engines horribly expensive? I guess a refit? Did SD2 get new engines? I mean 2 new Cat diesels would be great for SD and more efficient, right? I just don't understand. Put new engines in.

[Jim Avery]

Are new engines horribly expensive? I guess a refit? Did SD2 get new engines? I mean 2 new Cat diesels would be great for SD and more efficient, right? I just don't understand. Put new engines in.

 

Yes, they are horribly expensive. As far as I know, SD II has her original engines. Just an example, you can easily spend in excess of $100,000 to put a pair of Caterpillar diesels in a 60' sportfisherman. The engines in a ship the size of SeaDream are very large and extremely expensive. I do not know the exact model Wartsila diesel in SDI but they could easily weigh in excess of 10 tons each. Not only would an engine be changed, and they are usually changed in pairs so as to have the same output both sides, but also would be new reduction gears, new controllers (for throttle & clutch) and new electronics (gauges, computer controls, wiring harnesses, etc.). Then there is the problem of access. Usually, changing out a ship engine involves extensive steel work. Ship engines are normally intended to last the working life of the ship (with periodic overhauls). Most likely access for removal and installation of a new engine would be where the stack and exhaust risers are. Unless there is a hatch under the teak decking and corresponding hatches in other decks down to the engine space, the most common way is to cut the stack off, remove all exhaust piping etc. enlarge this open column if necessary then perform all the necessary engine work and reverse the process and build new decking, exhaust, stack, etc. On SeaDream, the engines are under the Dining Room and Main Salon. As you might guess, this is a big deal and takes considerable time out of service. I doubt they would go to this much expense/trouble in a 30 year old ship. So, this leaves an extensive search for an existing part. We will have to wait and see what the future holds for SD I.

[frequent traveler]

Yes, they are horribly expensive. As far as I know, SD II has her original engines. Just an example, you can easily spend in excess of $100,000 to put a pair of Caterpillar diesels in a 60' sportfisherman. The engines in a ship the size of SeaDream are very large and extremely expensive. I do not know the exact model Wartsila diesel in SDI but they could easily weigh in excess of 10 tons each. Not only would an engine be changed, and they are usually changed in pairs so as to have the same output both sides, but also would be new reduction gears, new controllers (for throttle & clutch) and new electronics (gauges, computer controls, wiring harnesses, etc.). Then there is the problem of access. Usually, changing out a ship engine involves extensive steel work. Ship engines are normally intended to last the working life of the ship (with periodic overhauls). Most likely access for removal and installation of a new engine would be where the stack and exhaust risers are. Unless there is a hatch under the teak decking and corresponding hatches in other decks down to the engine space, the most common way is to cut the stack off, remove all exhaust piping etc. enlarge this open column if necessary then perform all the necessary engine work and reverse the process and build new decking, exhaust, stack, etc. On SeaDream, the engines are under the Dining Room and Main Salon. As you might guess, this is a big deal and takes considerable time out of service. I doubt they would go to this much expense/trouble in a 30 year old ship. So, this leaves an extensive search for an existing part. We will have to wait and see what the future holds for SD I.

Jim,

Of course you have probably forgotten more about engines than I will ever know, but my Company's Penta division also makes marine engines and gen sets. The cost to retrofit with new technology has sold many more new boats and consigned old ones to floating hotels, casinos, and apartments in recent years.

[Jim Avery]

Jim,

Of course you have probably forgotten more about engines than I will ever know, but my Company's Penta division also makes marine engines and gen sets. The cost to retrofit with new technology has sold many more new boats and consigned old ones to floating hotels, casinos, and apartments in recent years.

 

Hi FT.

Right you are. And Volvo-Penta makes some fine engines. Your point is well taken that it is usually much more cost effective to build new than to have to retrofit main engines in old ships.

[cburger100]

Very interesting info Jim. Your attention to detail leads me to believe you know a LOT about engines. So here's a question to ponder. We have SD1 in the Caribbean, and she departs in April for London and mv SD2 will still be in Asia. How long will THAT crossing take? And geez, what if they DONT find a part? I think the Volvo Penta guy might be spot on. Let's get this ship in top form!

[sunswimsail]

You guys seem to have lots of engine knowledge. Wondering if our group should cancel Jan 4 sailing? Could there be further problems? Not happy about 4 days at sea, fear more?

[frequent traveler]

Very interesting info Jim. Your attention to detail leads me to believe you know a LOT about engines. So here's a question to ponder. We have SD1 in the Caribbean, and she departs in April for London and mv SD2 will still be in Asia. How long will THAT crossing take? And geez, what if they DONT find a part? I think the Volvo Penta guy might be spot on. Let's get this ship in top form!

 

I would not be getting on a ship with only one engine for a crossing. And I can't believe reputable management would permit. The risks are too great if something else fails. IF they locate a crankshaft at least one voyage will be interrupted for the repair. If they don't locate sending across the Atlantic w/o SD II close by is not reasonable. As someone in the marine finance industry, unless SD locates a source for parts or is willing to spend for the machine toolery to manufacture otherwise obsolete parts, SD faces some tough choices and needs to start making full disclosure to its customers. I hate to say this- I love the personnel on board from top to bottom and many in management, but this appears to have been some huge lack of planning. How can you not have replacement parts for key components? Sorry, but the yacht will never be in top form as old as it is. Good sailing condition maybe, but top physical condition no. We all have lived with the plumbing and cooling issues, lack of room service because we love the SD family and on board service. But obsolescence has to be dealt with, and if not,bluntly SD will not exist in its current form

Edited December 27, 2013 by frequent traveler

[Jim Avery]

Very interesting info Jim. Your attention to detail leads me to believe you know a LOT about engines. So here's a question to ponder. We have SD1 in the Caribbean, and she departs in April for London and mv SD2 will still be in Asia. How long will THAT crossing take? And geez, what if they DONT find a part? I think the Volvo Penta guy might be spot on. Let's get this ship in top form!

 

I don't know about knowing a LOT about engines but as a retired ship Captain I have had the exact scenario on a tank ship on which I worked. A twin engine ship, we lost one engine (crankshaft) and proceeded to work several months on one engine while the other was repaired while underway. You do not have to compensate oil but there are severe penalties in the oil business for delayed shipment or missed ports. Once all the parts are available, the parts and a crew of diesel technicians were flown to the ship. They sailed with us for the entire duration of the repair. This is what will happen when they have all the parts for SDI's engine. Let me correct one of your statements. Frequent Traveler (the "Volvo Penta guy") is a girl.:eek: She is a corporate attorney for Volvo. Do not make her mad calling her a guy!:eek::D Just kidding, Teresa is a great shipmate. Lots of fun at the TOY Bar.:D The Caribbean should be ok as the distances between ports are short. If it is not fixed by the Transatlantic, I fear that will cause some expensive delays along the line. Hope they get it handled asap.

[Jim Avery]

I would not be getting on a ship with only one engine for a crossing. And I can't believe reputable management would permit. The risks are too great if something else fails. IF they locate a crankshaft at least one voyage will be interrupted for the repair. If they don't locate sending across the Atlantic w/o SD II close by is not reasonable. As someone in the marine finance industry, unless SD locates a source for parts or is willing to spend for the machine toolery to manufacture otherwise obsolete parts, SD faces some tough choices and needs to start making full disclosure to its customers. I hate to say this- I love the personnel on board from top to bottom and many in management, but this appears to have been some huge lack of planning. How can you not have replacement parts for key components? Sorry, but the yacht will never be in top form as old as it is. Good sailing condition maybe, but top physical condition no. We all have lived with the plumbing and cooling issues, lack of room service because we love the SD family and on board service. But obsolescence has to be dealt with, and if not,bluntly SD will not exist in its current form

 

Hi FT. As usual, we agree. I don't think I would do an 8knot Transatlantic on one engine. But then I have sailed all over the Bering Sea and North Pacific on a ship that only had one to begin with.:eek: I do think they will be able to make the repairs while underway. I have not seen SD engine spaces but most have overhead hoists just for the purpose of overhauls. Breaking a crank is sort of unusual. It does happen but usually it is bearings, pistons, etc. that go. I agree about spare parts stocks. After all SeaDream needs 4 of them. As Lois put it: "Isn't the other one the same age?":eek:

[Dave Stuart]

The Jan 4th trip has gone from 4 ports to 2 ports and we are now 4 days at sea.

They offered our money back, but we are stuck with airfare. Sea Dream should discount the trip, but instead offer a future discount. Not fair.

[Jim Avery]

The Jan 4th trip has gone from 4 ports to 2 ports and we are now 4 days at sea.

They offered our money back, but we are stuck with airfare. Sea Dream should discount the trip, but instead offer a future discount. Not fair.

 

Would you happen to be from Destin, FL. Dave?

[frequent traveler]

The Jan 4th trip has gone from 4 ports to 2 ports and we are now 4 days at sea.

They offered our money back, but we are stuck with airfare. Sea Dream should discount the trip, but instead offer a future discount. Not fair.

 

Did SD not offer you the non refundable air also? In the past they have done that. I would push for that. They are not able to deliver due to their own ability to maintain. This is not missing ports due to high seas or weather which is beyond SD control. I would request my airfare refund too. Good luck

 

FT

[Dave Stuart]

SD did not offer it. They should. I bought my own tickets. If i didnt feel stuck with $2k in air, I would drop this trip like a hot potato