Captain's Club Changes POLL- Are You Happy or Not

[drarill]

I have cruised EXCLUSIVELY with Celebrity... I'd say that is the definition of LOYAL.

 

Requested a few points so I would be 1 Cruise away from Elite level, as I was prior to un-announced un-welcome changes to CC program.

 

I have booked my next Transatlantic on HAL, will I be back?

 

Perhaps when they add the points I requested, it is entirely up to Celebrity.

 

How many points did you have before the change? Most people with eight points were given 25 bonus points that put them 1 cruise away from Elite. I'm really sorry about your situation. My case is completely the opposite, I will have more cruise credits if the new system will be applied to my cruise history. For example I only got two cruise credits for 11 nights on a Celebrity suite in the Mediterranean. Under the new system that cruise will earn 132 points, and I only got 60 points with the conversion. I'm not complaining. I'm still Elite thanks to the reciprocity with RCCL.

[Jade13]

Well, I could have cancelled my booking and rebooked for the 25 bonus points?

 

Celebrity did not require anyone (at least in the US) to rebook in December to get the additional 25 bonus points. What you did have to do is pay the prevailing rates. If we had wanted the additional points on our upcoming cruise, it would have cost us an additional $800.00 ($400.00 each).

Edited January 12, 2014 by Jade13

[NLH Arizona]

I'm amazed that people who have already decided that they are no longer cruising with Celebrity to show their displeasure over the new system are taking so long to say good bye.

 

Because they are not going away from Celebrity. They feel that if they continue to complain, Celebrity will cave in. Based on a letter that a poster posted, that is not happening. As I said before, only a small percentage will actually walk away from Celebrity because of the new Captain's Club, others just say they will, but won't.

[20pluscruises]

Celebrity did not require anyone (at least in the US) to rebook in December to get the additional 25 bonus points. What you did have to do is pay the prevailing rates. If we had wanted the additional points on our upcoming cruise, it would have cost us an additional $800.00 ($400.00 each).

 

We booked and paid on Nov 23rd...price didn't change at the beginning of Dec.

[Jade13]

I am posting this against my better judgment. I know how some have reacted to this type of post on other threads, but I feel this can help us all to understand.

I received a call early this evening in a response to an e-mail I sent t CEO Bayley. I was told that Bayley saw my cruise record and appreciated my loyalty. Here's what I can say and won't comment or respond to questions or comments.

 

1. They recognize that there were some flaws in the system and that some were treated unfairly. They are receiving letters and calls and are continuing discussions.

2. Once the computer program was put in place it became impossible to make adjustments in points. I don't know enough about computers to that this is correct.

3. The rationale for the new program as I have stated in other threads and attacked for has been confirmed. Controlling costs and slowing the flow into Elite were major goals. They also wanted to send a strong message to their most loyal passengers. They view these people as valuable ambassadors for Celebrity.

 

My take: While posting on these boards may make one feel better, it will be more effective to let Celebrity know your problems and concerns. I would suggest that you not ask for any special consideration, just let them know how you feel.

 

I hope this helps.

 

I contacted Celebrity after our Azamara cruise that started on November 9 and ended on November 25 after 16 nights. The reason I originally contacted them was because several weeks went by and the cruise was still not listed under the Captains Club points. But than they came through using the new system so we had 12 less points and I was convinced they were not calculated properly.

 

They finally got back to me and made the correction as it was a mistake. The problem is that the system automatically calculates the points based on when the points/cruise hits the system. They obviously knew this was going to happen which is why a number of people posted earlier that they checked their Celebrity cruises while onboard during the change and their points were added (using the old system x 30) before they got off the ship.

 

They said they are going through the cruise history of a lot of people and will make the corrections as anyone who boarded Celebrity or Azamara before November 25 will have their points calculated using the old system x 30.

 

I know there were a number of posts with the same issue, so I hope this helps.

Edited January 12, 2014 by Jade13

[rhblake]

Cruisingourmet:

Where would you like them to cut off the old program? Should I get the old point values as I had 2 cruises booked and fully paid for at the date of conversion (I will get 48 fewer points)? Should the cutoff have been anyone who physically sails in the next 6 months or within a year of the conversion? Or, should it be that anyone who had a cruise booked will get the old points on their cruises? The changeover will affect each person differently and it is bound to disappoint some. Sorry you are so disturbed by the changeover but sometimes it is not about you or me.

 

BTW I am not disappointed; Celebrity is a great cruise line.

[Jade13]

We booked and paid on Nov 23rd...price didn't change at the beginning of Dec.

 

Maybe you had to be outside final payment and I do not know if that was your case or situation. Was this in AQU or above or whatever the bonus points required? If so, than you may have an argument.

Edited January 12, 2014 by Jade13

[Project_gal]

I cannot comment on how the changes were implemented becasue we were on board at the time and found out by chance. The new scheme looks OK. However, we are extremely unhappy with the conversion of old to new points. We had 24 old points and the conversion gave us 720 points. Had the new points scheme been applied retrospectively, we would have had 1690 points.

 

We gained 360 points for our [b2B] cruise and have two more cruises booked which will give us a further 558 points. That will take us to 1638 rather than the 2908 points we could have expected - less than 100 points short of Zenith. It seems to us as if our past cruises are being undervalued.

[SantaFeFan]

Because they are not going away from Celebrity. They feel that if they continue to complain, Celebrity will cave in. Based on a letter that a poster posted, that is not happening. As I said before, only a small percentage will actually walk away from Celebrity because of the new Captain's Club, others just say they will, but won't.

 

They are all bluffing and posturing, puffing up their chests in righteous outrage, but in the end will be too meek and will fail to fulfill their threats, which are all words and no substance - much like their endless complaining.

Edited January 12, 2014 by SantaFeFan

[maggie.1008]

We have cruised on 10 different cruise lines. Celebrity and Azamara now have our loyalty. I don`t think any other line can match Captains Club program.

[kelmac]

We have cruised on 10 different cruise lines. Celebrity and Azamara now have our loyalty. I don`t think any other line can match Captains Club program.

 

Mag,

 

I agree 100%. We gave up on Holland America and tried Princess again last month (not impressed). I would like to sneak in an other Oceania cruise soon, and we were REALLY surprised how much we enjoyed the Allure. Dollar for dollar, Celebrity has everyone beat!!

Loved being Elite Plus on our last Century cruise!!

 

Kel:)

[20pluscruises]

Mag,

 

I agree 100%. We gave up on Holland America and tried Princess again last month (not impressed). I would like to sneak in an other Oceania cruise soon, and we were REALLY surprised how much we enjoyed the Allure. Dollar for dollar, Celebrity has everyone beat!!

Loved being Elite Plus on our last Century cruise!!

 

Kel:)

 

How was Oceania? We are looking at Regent and wondered about the other lines like Oceania. Thanks!

[20pluscruises]

Wouldn't the more mature way to view these disappointments and/or complaints be with a "your perspective vs. my perspective" approach rather than simply right vs. wrong. Can't more than one point view be right depending on the circumstances? We'd all benefit greatly if we learned to listen and take into consideration others' viewpoints and feelings.

[Jade13]

I cannot comment on how the changes were implemented becasue we were on board at the time and found out by chance. The new scheme looks OK. However, we are extremely unhappy with the conversion of old to new points. We had 24 old points and the conversion gave us 720 points. Had the new points scheme been applied retrospectively, we would have had 1690 points.

 

We gained 360 points for our [b2B] cruise and have two more cruises booked which will give us a further 558 points. That will take us to 1638 rather than the 2908 points we could have expected - less than 100 points short of Zenith. It seems to us as if our past cruises are being undervalued.

 

I understand where you are coming from since you only book top Suites and that is exactly why they changed the program. However, if they retrospectively gave everyone who had paid more previously extra points, than those who were say one cabin class lower would argue if they knew how the conversion would be done they would have paid to upgrade on all of their cruises. So I understand why Celebrity isn't going back and converting past cruises using the new system. I can even think of cruises where we could have upgraded for $100 each and didn't do it because we were happy with our cabin selection, but if we knew it would have gotten us an extra 30 points at the conversion....

 

There are all kinds of arguments one can make. We are on a Galapagos cruise tour later this year and while only in an OV, most of the staterooms are OV. The cruise is more expensive than most and we will only get 20 points because Galapagos isn't calculated any different than others (2 points x 10 days for an OV) even though we are paying more, but that is the way that it is.

[Denny01]

Wouldn't the more mature way to view these disappointments and/or complaints be with a "your perspective vs. my perspective" approach rather than simply right vs. wrong. Can't more than one point view be right depending on the circumstances? We'd all benefit greatly if we learned to listen and take into consideration others' viewpoints and feelings.

I agree to some extent, but look a the various logics and rationales being used:

 

1. I don't have a lot of old points and wasn't very close to the next tier, but I have booked a number of Celebrity cruises in the future, and they earn the new points systems which means I won't make the next tier for 3 or 4 cruises instead of the 2 or 3. Celebrity should count my future cruises using the old system, then transfer them using the 30 new pts per old pt, so then I'll have more points. Logic: Use the old point system during the period the new system is in place because it gives me more points.

 

2. I made Elite but short of Elite Plus, but if they use the old points system for my future cruise(s) instead of the new system, I'll get enough to be Elite +. Logic: Use the old system for points during the period the new system is in place, but give me the new system's new tiers. It gives me more points.

 

3. Celebrity added points to some of the posters who were very close to Elite so they could make it on their next cruise as they would have under the old program. Although I'm not close to the next tier, they should give me points because they have others. Logic: Although I'm not close to the next tier and haven't earned the points, I should get them because they gave them to other cruisers and it gives me more points.

 

4. I looked at my points after my old points were changed to the new system and then compared if Celebrity would have retroactively used the New points program for my all previous cruises: I would have more points and be close to a tier that didn't exist before. Logic: Celebrity should use the New points system for all my old cruses when the Old program existed because I get more points for a tier that didn't exist when I got the old points.

 

These are actual examples, I didn't make them up; all use very different logic and perspectives and a few are opposite to the others.......the only commonality is each 'logic' gives the poster more points.

 

I am not unsympathetic, not because I agree with the logic, but because posters are allowing this to adversely impact their cruising. If someone wants to go try another Line because they feel slighted by Celebrity, that is great, go for it. But for those that have Celebrity cruises in the future, their posts appear that they are very angry and it will taint their cruise because of this perceived slight.

 

Den

Edited January 12, 2014 by Denny01

[C 2 C]

I am not unsympathetic, not because I agree with the logic, but because posters are allowing this to adversely impact their cruising. If someone wants to go try another Line because they feel slighted by Celebrity, that is great, go for it. But for those that have Celebrity cruises in the future, their posts appear that they are very angry and it will taint their cruise because of this perceived slight.

 

Den

 

Logic? What many demand is magic. Change the program so that only they will benefit using the new/old system on the former/future cruises to achieve a level that never existed under the old system. Getting all these contradicting demands at head office must be making their eyes roll.

[Ma Bell]

Logic? What many demand is magic. Change the program so that only they will benefit using the new/old system on the former/future cruises to achieve a level that never existed under the old system. Getting all these contradicting demands at head office must be making their eyes roll.

 

I agree, we fall into a couple of these categories but I wouldn't complain because I feel they did the best they could to try to make it fair for everyone.

[cruisingourmet]

. Getting all these contradicting demands at head office must be making their eyes roll.

 

I don't doubt it. If they announced a 6 month transition period so people could plan for the change the irritation would have been much, much less.

 

Keep in mind many have said it is not important to them, that is fine. The Elites even woke up to find goodies like + and Zenith the group mostly effected were Selects who were a cruise or two away.

 

However, there are a vocal few who for whatever reason, felt a small gesture could patch the hard feelings the change(s) created.

 

Celebrity could have handled those on a case by case basis and by going the Xtra mile won back or kept VALUABLE clients. The SELECT cruiser is a highly valuable asset. They are a proven commodity who SPENDS $$$

 

The cruise industry is beginning or about undergo a huge shakeout.

 

There are massive ships in the pipeline about to go to sea and there are simply not enough passengers to fill the TENS OF THOUSANDS of cabins hitting the market place.

 

I am willing to bet that the next paradigm shift will be ALL ALACARTE menus in all dining rooms, so you will pay for every meal or they will offer optional meal packages, just to compete and fill cabins.

 

This is why I feel X is making a TITANIC mistake in alienating any patron in this critical time for the cruise industry.

[boogs]

I don't doubt it. If they announced a 6 month transition period so people could plan for the change the irritation would have been much, much less.

 

Keep in mind many have said it is not important to them, that is fine. The Elites even woke up to find goodies like + and Zenith the group mostly effected were Selects who were a cruise or two away.

 

However, there are a vocal few who for whatever reason, felt a small gesture could patch the hard feelings the change(s) created.

 

Celebrity could have handled those on a case by case basis and by going the Xtra mile won back or kept VALUABLE clients. The SELECT cruiser is a highly valuable asset. They are a proven commodity who SPENDS $$$

 

The cruise industry is beginning or about undergo a huge shakeout.

 

There are massive ships in the pipeline about to go to sea and there are simply not enough passengers to fill the TENS OF THOUSANDS of cabins hitting the market place.

 

I am willing to bet that the next paradigm shift will be ALL ALACARTE menus in all dining rooms, so you will pay for every meal or they will offer optional meal packages, just to compete and fill cabins.

 

This is why I feel X is making a TITANIC mistake in alienating any patron in this critical time for the cruise industry.

 

Apparently you must have a crystal ball that you are using to predict that "huge shakedown" in the cruise industry, that the "next paradigm shift will be ALL ALACARTE menus in all dining rooms", and that X is making a "TITANIC mistake". Why didn't you also use it to predict the changes in the Captain's Club program and plan ahead? Was your crystal ball in the shop? Or do you enjoy just making this stuff up?

Edited January 12, 2014 by boogs

[Ma Bell]

The tantrum didn't work this time. I know for some it's a novel approach to consider what might be best for everyone rather than just what is best for oneself, but it seems to bring a lot more peace to life.

Edited January 12, 2014 by Ma Bell

[cruisingourmet]

just Google "cruise industry overcapacity"

 

from the parent company RCL

 

http://www.wikinvest.com/stock/Royal_Caribbean_Cruises_(RCL)/Overcapacity%20Within%20Cruise%20Vacation%20Industry%20Reduction%20Demand%20Geo-political

Edited January 12, 2014 by cruisingourmet
clarity

[C 2 C]

This is why I feel X is making a TITANIC mistake in alienating any patron in this critical time for the cruise industry.

 

Celebrity will soon have fewer berths to fill.

 

I also think that there is a huge Chinese market yet to exploit.

 

Other lines will have to work hard to offer anything close to what Celebrity offers, in service, food and on board experience.

 

RCI has done very well filling ships with their innovative designs.

 

Only a major economic downturn will cause people to stop cruising… and that scenario requires a crystal ball.

[C 2 C]

just Google "cruise industry overcapacity"

 

from the parent company RCL

 

http://www.wikinvest.com/stock/Royal_Caribbean_Cruises_(RCL)/Overcapacity%20Within%20Cruise%20Vacation%20Industry%20Reduction%20Demand%20Geo-political

 

 

Very conclusive, dated 2008.

 

These excerpts taken from the RCL 10-K filed Feb 19, 2008.

Edited January 12, 2014 by ~Cruisenut~

[humptydumpty11]

The reason I instituted this poll was to get a pulse on the subject in question instead of the repetitive bickering on the other CruiseCritic threads. In that regard it is only partially successful as many insist on having their say again, again and again. Yes, it may not be a scientific poll and the choices not to everyone’s liking; but it shouldn’t have been difficult to pick a choice as apparently many did and the results are there for each to interpret. Sadly similar opinions have now been repeated over 11 pages, many of which are debating the meaning of loyalty. Please vote and then go back to the other discussion threads.:)

 

If some want to include the “don’t cares” with the happy category- go right ahead; but ‘don’t care’ does not mean ‘happy’ by any stretch of the imagination. Perhaps they’re just not affected. Also some opined that around 25% of your customers being unhappy (with the Capt’s.Club changes) isn’t bad, or is even good. I’d be really concerned if 1 in 4 of my customers were expressing that opinion! It may cover one area, but there is a carryover effect. Personally, I never chased a repeat customer away unless he was obnoxious or bounced checks The true determination is how Celebrity views the result of their actions and whether it costs them more than they’ll save. For those who think X acted fairly or if it didn’t affect you, remember they can change it again or even cancel it. As some said it’s a free program they’re giving out and they can do as they please. I and numerous other see the program as a commitment which they failed to fulfill.

 

If a cruise line has to fill that cabin you or I didn’t book, they may have to do it at substantially lower prices or offer other inducements, i.e., “123 go!”, which be can costly. Have you considered why cruise prices today aren’t much different than 25 years ago? Hint- they have trouble filling all the cabins and can lose the on-board revenue from those sailing empty. Cruisingourmet comprehends the business entity & its programs very well (post #188). I too think they’d be better off keeping you happy versus risking you going elsewhere. All lines are cutting back or upping prices- wine, soda, specialty restaurants, in-cabin food, etc. because of this and the effect on the bottom line.

 

I sailed X since before they had a Captain’s Club. No, I may not be a ‘loyal’ customer (whatever that means) but I am a paying customer and expect to be treated how I consider fair. A rewards program is instituted to get customers to come back to spend more money with the company. From many of the comments it appears to be working on some as they claim to be booking more expensive categories and even extra cruises to get those precious points. But, do the freebies obtained (now or in future) cover the extra $$$ spent? I guess each of us makes that decision. My answer is probably not. Several lines are equal to Celebrity, better in some areas, poorer in others and I’ll spend my bucks where I get the best overall deal, including the perks. This applies here, to airlines, hotels, groceries, autos, gasoline…. I’d rather be known as a smart customer than a loyal one anyway. Furthermore, I’m sailing next week and recently booked another cruise later in the year, neither on Celebrity. I’ll sail X again when it best suits me because they did me wrong.:(

 

You haven’t seen many posts from this individual because I’ve had my say and being retired have more important ways of spending my hours and days. My intention with an earlier post as well as the “poll” was to contribute in a way that those of you who love cruising as I do, would add positively to the discussion. Hopefully, you won’t nitpick trivial points and will move on as I intend. For those who may have missed my more expanded reaction to Celebrity’s changes, I’ll save you the trouble of hunting the other threads by repeating it below:

 

 

“No skin in the game- ha!

I’ve read most of the posts on this and the other Captains’ Club forum. My initial reaction was that some of these folks just do not understand why many are so ticked off with the changes. Then, I realized some posters, led by a handful who cannot stop regurgitating the same nonsense, are unhappy with the old program because of apparent overcrowding at the on board CC events. They either have reached or are close enough to the freebee level and do not want to share when others attain that tier. So it is onto the soapbox shouting their support of Celebrity for the changes; instead of asking the cruise line to fulfill their commitments by providing adequate facilities, i.e., additional venues or whatever, for the rewards they promised their loyal customers.

 

“You can argue the legality or ethics of what Celebrity did, defend them to the hills or bring in superfluous issues; but how many times are you going to repeat the same arguments ad nauseam? Whether it is legal or not is missing the point because it is not an issue of legal magnitude. The forum is a way of protesting the actions of a company for those who feel wronged in addition to their complaining directly or even getting the support of organizations such as the BBB. Companies are in business to make money and they need customers to achieve that end. When their actions upset the customers, we protest and if more do so, the better the possibility of a positive response. If we remain mute, or support them to further our self-interests, they do whatever they want and it spreads to the rest of the industry. Then we wind up with the short end of the stick. Of course, we could stay quiet and eventually reach our limit to stop buying the product which could result in the company going under. In that scenario, everyone loses as happened to Renaissance Lines several years ago as well as other companies.

 

“Most companies want dissatisfied customers to come to them with a complaint rather than broadcast publicly. You can be certain that Celebrity and other lines scrutinize these forums closely. The more negative reaction a company receives, the greater the chance of their making changes or offering redress to those affected, regardless of whom is right or wrong. Obviously, if the complaints are limited, the company reacts accordingly with no action warranted. However, posters repeating the same things accomplish nothing constructive. In the end, it is about the whether the bottom line, perceived or otherwise, will be affected.

 

“Celebrity initiated the program, which they have an obligation to administer fairly. The fact is it is now harder to achieve reward levels. While no one is questioning Celeb’s right to make the changes, the underhanded way it was done is the issue and leaves a bad taste with the majority. My feelings are for those who were paid in full, expecting to make the next tier, whatever their reason for booking, and were left without recourse due to the timing of the changes as well as lack of reasonable advance notice. A business which does that and expects loyalty is making a big mistake. The program was their idea to increase sales and profits. They should have foreseen the costs and potential problems and we should not be penalized for their poor judgment.

 

“Those posters who don’t want to share the rewards with fellow cruisers should quit crying in the extra beer they feel they’ll miss and stop arguing other irrelevant items like ports or cabin changes, etc. For that handful monopolizing these threads, as nicely pointed out in posts 176 & 186 by Putterdude, have a ball with your future thumbs down comments to this and other posts which go against your personal interests in the program. However, please give the rest of us a break by posting new thoughts and leaving room on these boards for others opinions to be more visible.”

[NLH Arizona]

just Google "cruise industry overcapacity"

 

from the parent company RCL

 

http://www.wikinvest.com/stock/Royal_Caribbean_Cruises_(RCL)/Overcapacity%20Within%20Cruise%20Vacation%20Industry%20Reduction%20Demand%20Geo-political

Do you have any more up-dated information. This includes excerpts taken from 2006, 2007 and 2008? A lot has changed since 2008.