Service Charges on NCL

[Out to sea!]

Maybe I shouldn't be cruising at all. We (husband & I) have as our only income old age pension paid by social security. Consequently for us to go on a cruise it means a lot of saving & going without a lot. The 28 day cruise I have planned would then cost us over $600 extra in service charges. And as I mentioned in an earlier post we often pay more for our cruise if booked from Australia & do not get the perks that you all take for granted eg OBC & other offers. Or maybe I should stick to Princess who do not add a service charge at all to ships that sail out of Australia.

 

Every ship for every line out of Australia has the service charge already included in the price. That is why you don't see a service charge once on board, you've already paid it. What several of us here are trying to say is that same model should be used in the US to keep people from cheating those they received service from by removing them at the end of the cruise just to save money.

[Tutankhamen]

I get it now. It's do as I say, not as I do. You want NCL to pay crew a fair wage, while you pay your employees the minimum & make them beg for bonuses. It makes sense.

 

Make them beg for bonuses.? Your kidding right? Haha. I pay my employees minimum? Your kidding again right? Haha. I guess Kevin Sheehan begged for his bonuses too. Oh, wait. Big corporations do not use money as motivators. Haha. Your really pulling at strings now.

 

 

 

I owned a restaurant with 210 seats (5000 sq ft) and 60 employees...I've seen tipping impact. I also know that I'd have had equally good servers if I'd attached service charges instead of tipping.

 

After all the debate over tipping servers, and all your posts defending the NCL system, you decide now to say you owned a 210 seat restaurant? Not calling you liar, cough cough, but wouldn't that be the first thing you would bring up to substantiate your argument? Seems strange not to mention that you employed waitresses, waiters and kitchen workers on a thread where we are debating how a company, and consumers, pay the very employees that you had working for you.

 

How do I know this? Because I've stayed at many 5 & 6 star resorts where this is the modus operandi. And the service is impeccable.

 

In 2012 we stayed at the Four Seasons in Maui. Top notch service. Employees were tipped well.

 

 

 

If people would just leave the DSC as-is, then these are NOT low-end, entry-level, bottom-of-the-barrel jobs. They may look like it to you, but I don't pre-judge. These are good jobs which have some of the best, EDUCATED, people applying for them... so long as the income is consistent. Consistency is what is bred from the DSC.

 

Best educated people?? They are so educated that they decided to pack up, leave their families to work in the bowls of a ship for 5-7 months working 7 days a week for less the minimum wage? If they are the best educated people from their country, despite how poor of a country, they would not be folding laundry on a ship. For the most part anyway. I can't tell you how many of the workers I have talked to have spent decades working on the ship. Same people cleaning my room and taking my order at dinner. And consistency, HA. Maybe 30 years ago. But the last decade the service has declined. Maybe that is what you mean by consistency.

 

 

The difference between your $16 and the $7.25 is simply broken-out in a $12/day Service Charge. You pay the fare upfront, and the service charge after the cruise....but it equates to the same thing.

 

If it equates to the same thing, why the resistance?

 

 

 

 

I'm glad that you have. The next time there's a debate regarding the service charge lead off with "I would like to see the service charge added to the cruise fare because I believe it would improve the quality of the passengers sailing with NCL" instead of taking the great circle route to get there. It will save wear and tear on everyone's keyboard;).

 

Why would I do that? There are many facets to my argument and reasons why I do not like the system. I have mentioned, and explained many many many times on this thread. NCL, pay your employees a fair wage. Include it in the cost of the cruise fare, or at the least add it to the bill like port charges are added. Don't be deceptive. Allow me to tip and reward servers that go above and beyond. This should improve service, and happier employees. That is and has been my argument. Just because there are some other things that it could affect doesn't mean that is my motivation.

 

Perhaps if you all put up reasons why your way is better, rather then just twist what I say, you could make some progress in regards to your argument. But most here would rather focus on my suggestion rather then defending NCL.

 

Also, not sure if I will be returning to this thread. It has ran its course and since the "service charge cheerleaders" have found it necessary to make little comments such as calling me "toot". Or trying to paint me in the light that I am a bad employer because I reward my employees with bonus, just as NCL rewarded their CEO with 2million bucks. Or saying that I am not educated enough to cruise the high-end cruise lines..... just shows that your argument is weak at best. Some of you have resulted into trying to insult me in order to further your stance.

 

It is unfortunate that we couldn't have a intellectual debate.

Edited April 10, 2014 by Tutankhamen

[rochelle_s]

y

 

 

 

 

 

Best educated people?? They are so educated that they decided to pack up, leave their families to work in the bowls of a ship for 5-7 months working 7 days a week for less the minimum wage? If they are the best educated people from their country, despite how poor of a country, they would not be folding laundry on a ship. For the most part anyway. I can't tell you how many of the workers I have talked to have spent decades working on the ship. Same people cleaning my room and taking my order at dinner. And consistency, HA. Maybe 30 years ago. But the last decade the service has declined. Maybe that is what you mean by consistency.

 

 

 

My intention is not to weigh in on the tipping debate but I feel your above comment is very unfair to many crew members. I know you find it very hard to believe that the crew members cleaning your cabin and serving you your meals are educated individuals. The fact is though that they are indeed very well educated -- university educated in fact. That person making your bed or pouring your coffee could easily have a degree in science or engineering. Their home countries are often very poor and the opportunities are not there for them. Even with a post secondary education and finding a job in their field that doesn't necessarily mean a great paycheck.

 

Take the Philippines as an example. Minimum wage is 436 Philippine Pesos per day. At today's currency exchange that is a whopping $9.76 US -- that's for the whole day not one hour.

 

Entry level for a new grad (professional) can be between P 13-15K monthly. Even at the high end of 15K that is the equivalent of $336.10 US---For the MONTH! These figures are for salaries in Manila- they would be less elsewhere.

 

There is a lot of competition to work in the cruise industry and that is why you will find some very educated men and women working aboard ships. The money they make goes a long way in their home countries. Many save in hopes that they can start their own business. Perhaps their time at sea is a stepping stone to other opportunities. Then there are those who, as you said, have been working on ships for decades as they have chosen this as their career.

 

It can not be easy to be so far away from your family for such a long time. These men and women make a difficult decision to work in this industry in order to provide well for their families and themselves. That educated crew member works what many consider a menial labour job -- 7 days a week, month after month ...and still manages to have a smile on their face. They should be respected for their position not belittled.

 

Next time you are on a ship, take the time to get to know a couple of these hard working crew. Ask them about their future plans...I think they might just surprise you.

 

Rochelle

[Zackster]

My intention is not to weigh in on the tipping debate but I feel your above comment is very unfair to many crew members. I know you find it very hard to believe that the crew members cleaning your cabin and serving you your meals are educated individuals. The fact is though that they are indeed very well educated -- university educated in fact. That person making your bed or pouring your coffee could easily have a degree in science or engineering. Their home countries are often very poor and the opportunities are not there for them. Even with a post secondary education and finding a job in their field that doesn't necessarily mean a great pay check.

 

Rochelle

 

Rochelle, I understand why you'd find Tut's comment unfair, however you'd have to read the entire thread to see how we got here. I don't believe he was trying to be mean.

 

A better choice of words would be opportunity cost. Most reasonable people do not leave their home/friends/family to go abroad to work. Some may be going abroad for the "experience" but I believe most are going because they can make more on a cruise ship than they can in their home countries.

 

I'm not going to flame this debate by weighing in on educational equivalency levels of Phillipines vs Canada/USA.

 

20+yrs ago I remember most of the cruise ship staff being from Western European countries. I had many Italian and French waiters tell me how in their home country a top server is respected and not viewed as a College summer job. Since the formation of the European Union and other factors, those workers no longer seek employment (in large numbers) on cruise lines.

[Zackster]

I disliked Princess very much, on my 22 day cruise with them. Didn't feel like the crew had earned the right to the same pay as their counterparts on NCL. In fact finished that 22 day cruise & immediately booked another NCL cruise (unplanned) just to see whether we'd gone off cruising altogether, or if it was just Princess (it was just Princess).

 

It amuses me, now that I know you've never even cruised with NCL, how vocal you've been about how they should run their business. By contrast, I've sailed 20 times, am a shareholder in the company (only 100 shares, but still), and advocate for the innovations they continue to make, to anybody who will listen. I think that the DSC as broken-out from the cruisefare makes perfect sense. NCL innovated a new way of dealing with the long-standing idea that crew recompense was not a component of the base fare. Other lines would provide envelopes and recommendations of the amount to disburse, to reward the crew. NCL automated the process, without changing the total amount of money (cost-structure), and in course managed to establish a system wherein poor service experiences are captured early and rectified.

 

The problem we see now, is that traditionalists want their old system back. Why? I'm not sure...but I conjecture that there's a power element lurking in their subconscious... the idea of wanting to see the look of obsequiousness and gratitude in the handing-over of the envelope appeals to some. It horrifies me.

 

So NCL established a policy wherein the DAILY service charge (only very recently renamed) would be mandatory, and would eliminate the need for any additional rewards - though these rewards would not be rejected, if proffered. And to accommodate those with an actual service issue, they made the DSC adjustable.

 

Then, some intrepid fellows realized that they could make-up issues, or just say they didn't want to discuss the issue, they just wanted to reduce the charge.

 

And then somebody posted on Cruise Critic, and acrimony resulted.

 

 

As for what I got for my $200k? 20 vacations, many in suites, to exotic locales, food, entertainment, laundry service, internet, shore excursions, and a lot of fun in the casino.

 

The OP matters little in a thread after the initial set of Yes/No/Maybe answers. The rest of the thread is a discussion. That's why they call it a discussion board. The OP doesn't own the thread.

 

NCL isn't really a multinational, in the true sense. They're a US company headquartered in Miami, which operates on a semi-global basis.

 

As for the corporations which have gone through bankruptcy, I remind you of a quote from Henry Ford (paraphrased here: "if I had asked prospective customers what they wanted, they'd have said 'faster horses' "

 

My job in sales is to illustrate to prospective customers things with which they aren't yet acquainted. I spend my days showing them new paradigms and contexts which they haven't previously considered.

 

This is absurd. Do you tip your airline pilot so that he tries harder to avoid turbulence?

 

Do you tip your doctor so that they invest more time into diagnosing your illness?

 

Do you go & visit your local nuclear reactor and tip the operators as thanks for not forcing you to evacuate due to a meltdown?

 

These are all salaried positions (except for the pilot & the doctor....who work on hourly & piece-meal basis, respectively).

 

There is no tip-incentive for any of them...yet, you've traveled, you're not ill, and your reactor provides your electricity.

 

It's nonsense that people only work because they're motivated by tips. People are far more likely to be motivated by their own sense of accomplishment, coupled with a system of recompense which they feel justifies the investment in education, and experience which they've made.

 

I'm in sales. I do quite well in this role, and have had a career dating 25+ years. I'm motivated by reward, certainly....but not reward that I can't rely upon.

 

I'd have quit the job long ago if I had to perform it, and THEN my employer could decide whether or not to pay me. That's what tipping is, according to you. Do the job and then I'll assess whether you've earned any reward.

 

I'm far more in favor of something like the DSC which provides stable income for the crew, without compromising various other constructs belonging to the cruise-line (separation of revenue types, etc.). It works perfectly, as long as people stop trying to make it back into the old way of envelopes for everybody.

 

You get an envelope, and you get an envelope....the only beneficiaries of that process were the envelope manufacturers, and we're not talking about them....here.

 

Stephen

 

.

 

Wow, after 1 cruise you wrote off an entire cruise line encompassing 15+ ships! Generalize much? How convenient to your argument that you booked another NCL right after Princess. While my first cruise with NCL is coming up, I'm of the mindset that no ship/crew is reflective of the entire company.

 

I didn't realize I need to have cruised 20+ times to be critical of NCL. Their business model seems pretty similar to the other cruise lines. You own 100 shares - wait I'm clapping my hands for you - look around this board at all long-time cruisers you think you're the only one? I won't poison my argument with how many shares of cruise lines I own and how my 100 shares entitles me to anything. I'll leave it as an exercise in arithmetic for you to calculate what percentage of importance you have to NCLH with a market cap of $6.5B with today's closing stock price.

 

Can't speak for other traditionalists but I'm of the mindset that gratuities/bonuses motivate employees to work harder. Apparently it's been in use for some time in other industries too.

 

You must be new to the internet. The OP's question owns the thread, that's why they call it a thread. Otherwise it would be called a schizophrenic stream of consciousness ... oh wait ...

 

NCLH isn't a multinational??? "Norwegian Cruise Lines is jointly owned by Genting Hong Kong (owners of Star Cruises) and Apollo Management."

http://www.cruisemarketwatch.com/market-share/

 

"Outside of the United States (U.S.), the company has an international sales presence in Europe and representatives covering Latin America, Australia, and Asia. The company focuses primarily on increasing its business in the United Kingdom and the Continental Europe markets."

http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/snapshot/snapshot_article.asp?ticker=NCLH

 

Cherry-picking a quote from Henry Ford - see logical fallacy: argument from authority.

 

Well your job in sales isn't much help here cause I'm not sold. Here's my quote, give a man a hammer and all he sees are nails. I suggest you broaden your work experience: finance/accounting, marketing, IT, HR to name just a few.

 

As for your comments on tipping :confused:

[Tutankhamen]

My intention is not to weigh in on the tipping debate but I feel your above comment is very unfair to many crew members. I know you find it very hard to believe that the crew members cleaning your cabin and serving you your meals are educated individuals. The fact is though that they are indeed very well educated -- university educated in fact. That person making your bed or pouring your coffee could easily have a degree in science or engineering. Their home countries are often very poor and the opportunities are not there for them. Even with a post secondary education and finding a job in their field that doesn't necessarily mean a great paycheck.

 

Take the Philippines as an example. Minimum wage is 436 Philippine Pesos per day. At today's currency exchange that is a whopping $9.76 US -- that's for the whole day not one hour.

 

Entry level for a new grad (professional) can be between P 13-15K monthly. Even at the high end of 15K that is the equivalent of $336.10 US---For the MONTH! These figures are for salaries in Manila- they would be less elsewhere.

 

There is a lot of competition to work in the cruise industry and that is why you will find some very educated men and women working aboard ships. The money they make goes a long way in their home countries. Many save in hopes that they can start their own business. Perhaps their time at sea is a stepping stone to other opportunities. Then there are those who, as you said, have been working on ships for decades as they have chosen this as their career.

 

It can not be easy to be so far away from your family for such a long time. These men and women make a difficult decision to work in this industry in order to provide well for their families and themselves. That educated crew member works what many consider a menial labour job -- 7 days a week, month after month ...and still manages to have a smile on their face. They should be respected for their position not belittled.

 

Next time you are on a ship, take the time to get to know a couple of these hard working crew. Ask them about their future plans...I think they might just surprise you.

 

Rochelle

 

Trust me, I know many crew members personally. Keep in contact with them. Visited them in their country. Spent time in their homes. Yes, some are educated. I am not saying there are not some that are educated. What I am saying is, if you are the best and educated then there are more opportunities in their respective country then you may believe.

 

Look, not going to get into a debate on the education level and how "best" they are or are not. And I am not going to apologize for my opinion that the the best and educated people chose to work on a ship.

 

As for those that discuss the poor and poverty, I will challenge anyone here to prove that they have done more charity work then me. I will bet a week long cruise on Crystal that I have done more charity work, hands on, then any poster that has posted on this thread to date. All I would ask is a third party hold the funds we are wagering. I will give you a little taste which represent perhaps less then 1% of the work I have done for the impoverished. I worked for 4 week in Calcutta working with the Missionaries of Charity. Actually had the privilege to work with Mother Theresa at a place called Nirmal Hriday. I spent several weeks in Kenya working with the families who live on the garbage dumps. I spent several weeks in Haiti building homes for the poor. Again, this represents less then 1% of my hands on work with poverty. I am not willing to divulge anymore, but if anyone cars to take me up on my bet, I am willing.

 

I have nothing against poor, in fact I believe all the political correctness and people unwilling to admit the problems that plague the poor is the problem. Can't fix the problem if you do not recognize the problem. Listen to the Adam Carolla Gavin Newsom interview. Adam hits it right on the head.

Edited April 10, 2014 by Tutankhamen

[Zackster]

I owned a restaurant with 210 seats (5000 sq ft) and 60 employees...I've seen tipping impact. I also know that I'd have had equally good servers if I'd attached service charges instead of tipping. How do I know this? Because I've stayed at many 5 & 6 star resorts where this is the modus operandi. And the service is impeccable.

 

In AUS and in the UK, the Service Charge is simply included in your cheque. I've seen chits in both countries which specify at the bottom of the bill that "service is included". All they did was make invisible to you, what NCL is making visible....that these people are being paid fairly.

 

Stephen

 

.

 

So on top of your 100 shares of NCLH you now conveniently owned a 210 seat, 5000 sqft, 60 employee restaurant. That's 465 sqm to our metric cruise critics! Was it air-conditioned? Did you validate parking?! :D

 

5/6 star resorts should be impeccable in service! I wouldn't know, I have trouble hitting the 4 stars when bidding on Priceline. :)

 

May I recommend the Burj Al Arab hotel, it's a 7 star hotel and staying there would make your statements more impressive. :roll eyes:

 

I like you, you're fun.

[Zackster]

Well thank you for the suggestion :rolleyes:

 

Having cruised since the early 80's, like the OP, I have witnessed a vast decline in the type of cruiser. It is nothing today like it was "back then". Also like the OP, I am not a fan of snobby rich people, and thus avoid the more expensive lines.

 

Look, I'm not rich, it's my parents who are rich! :D And don't hate me because I'm beautiful.

 

As for toothless and smelly. Apparently I made quite an impression that so many of you remember me. OK, I chipped my tooth on the lobster shell and foie gras gives me gas ... sorry :o

[Tutankhamen]

Look, I'm not rich, it's my parents who are rich! :D And don't hate me because I'm beautiful.

 

As for toothless and smelly. Apparently I made quite an impression that so many of you remember me. OK, I chipped my tooth on the lobster shell and foie gras gives me gas ... sorry :o

 

Hahaha. For the record, for the most part there are not toothless smelly obscenity spewing folks on cruises. That comment came from one man that I cruised with. Had to keep the kids away from him. The same one smoking a joint walking down the street in Nassau. He was very disturbing to me and my family. Probably should of left that comment out of the thread.

[sjbdtz]

Wow, after 1 cruise you wrote off an entire cruise line encompassing 15+ ships! Generalize much? How convenient to your argument that you booked another NCL right after Princess.

 

True, it's a generalization. But the niggling effect was pervasive. I'm intolerant of being addressed as 'sir' by every crew member who passes by. On NCL there's a higher degree of familiarity which feels more comfortable. When I returned from the Princess cruise, I was rather vocal here about booking the emergency NCL trip, because we verged on never cruising again.

 

 

Can't speak for other traditionalists but I'm of the mindset that gratuities/bonuses motivate employees to work harder. Apparently it's been in use for some time in other industries too.

 

I agree with this. Except that your proposal, to integrate the DSC into the cruise fare would eliminate this motivational aspect. Plus, many are motivated by stability more than possibility. That's why there are both fixed-rate and variable-rate mortgages available at differing premiums. People who live away from home for 9 months, may in fact prefer to know that they're earning enough to satisfy their goals, rather than hoping Joe Schmoe might tip them.

 

You must be new to the internet.

 

As evidenced by my irrational desire to make you & Tut understand the ramifications of your proposals....you may be right.

 

The OP's question owns the thread, that's why they call it a thread.

 

A thread is an interwoven discussion emanating from, and terminating in, a single point. There's no definition of thread which supposes it's held at both ends by the same person.

 

 

Otherwise it would be called a schizophrenic stream of consciousness ... oh wait ...

 

NCLH isn't a multinational???

Correct. They have a single head office in the US. Kraft is a multinational, Nestle is a multinational. NCL is not. At least according to the profs in my Masters business program.

 

 

 

"Norwegian Cruise Lines is jointly owned by Genting Hong Kong (owners of Star Cruises) and Apollo Management."

http://www.cruisemarketwatch.com/market-share/

 

We're talking about NCL, not about NCL's majority shareholders. Don't confuse the picture.

 

 

 

Cherry-picking a quote from Henry Ford - see logical fallacy: argument from authority.

 

I was attempting to inject levity into an otherwise dry thread. Fell free to disregard, if you don't have a sense of humour.

 

Well your job in sales isn't much help here cause I'm not sold. Here's my quote, give a man a hammer and all he sees are nails. I suggest you broaden your work experience: finance/accounting, marketing, IT, HR to name just a few.

 

As for your comments on tipping :confused:

 

As to my comments on tipping, what? Do you realize the real amusing thing here? Tut, yourself, and I all agree. We all think that the DSC should not be removable, thus paying a fair wage and/or providing stability for crew.... the only difference is that I'm in favour of it being visible and you want it integrated into the base fare. *Sigh*

[Tutankhamen]

never said I want it hidden. Could be added to the bill at time of booking like port charges. However, by having it visible, you are essentially lowering the tips. People see the "service charge" and assume that is tips. Evident by the many posts here on CC.

[sjbdtz]

So on top of your 100 shares of NCLH you now conveniently owned a 210 seat, 5000 sqft, 60 employee restaurant. That's 465 sqm to our metric cruise critics! Was it air-conditioned? Did you validate parking?! :D

 

5/6 star resorts should be impeccable in service! I wouldn't know, I have trouble hitting the 4 stars when bidding on Priceline. :)

 

May I recommend the Burj Al Arab hotel, it's a 7 star hotel and staying there would make your statements more impressive. :roll eyes:

 

I like you, you're fun.

 

 

Opening day:

 

 

 

 

There I am, thinner, and younger... in the upper-right corner.

 

 

I'm not sure what statements I made that should make me need to visit Dubai to validate them...all I said was a fair wage underwritten by a Service Charge is equally (or better) motivating than a post-service tip.

 

Thanks! Most of the people who've met me reach that same conclusion. I am fun. :)

 

 

 

Stephen

 

 

P.S. Ironically, on opening day the parking lot wasn't yet paved, AND the air conditioning was wonky... funny you'd pick those two things to ask about.

 

 

.

Edited April 10, 2014 by sjbdtz

[sjbdtz]

never said I want it hidden. Could be added to the bill at time of booking like port charges. However, by having it visible, you are essentially lowering the tips. People see the "service charge" and assume that is tips. Evident by the many posts here on CC.

 

 

That would be because NCL itself says (paraphrased): Pay the Service Charge, and tipping not required.

 

 

It isn't "A" tip, but it negates the need for tips.

 

 

.

[sparks1093]

never said I want it hidden. Could be added to the bill at time of booking like port charges. However, by having it visible, you are essentially lowering the tips. People see the "service charge" and assume that is tips. Evident by the many posts here on CC.

 

NCL says there is no need to tip but passengers are free to if they want to. I generally don't tip above the service charge (or the 15% added to the bar bill) but will if it is warranted. And I still maintain that paying the crew a salary will reduce tips even more because most people won't tip salaried crew at all. Of course that is pure conjecture on my part, but the same holds true for your position that people will tip salaried crew. As for your comment "It is unfortunate that we couldn't have a intellectual debate" I believed that you and I were but you keep lumping me in with others posting to this thread.

[sjbdtz]

Trust me, I know many crew members personally. Keep in contact with them. Visited them in their country. Spent time in their homes. Yes, some are educated. I am not saying there are not some that are educated. What I am saying is, if you are the best and educated then there are more opportunities in their respective country then you may believe.

 

Look, not going to get into a debate on the education level and how "best" they are or are not. And I am not going to apologize for my opinion that the the best and educated people chose to work on a ship.

 

As for those that discuss the poor and poverty, I will challenge anyone here to prove that they have done more charity work then me. I will bet a week long cruise on Crystal that I have done more charity work, hands on, then any poster that has posted on this thread to date. All I would ask is a third party hold the funds we are wagering. I will give you a little taste which represent perhaps less then 1% of the work I have done for the impoverished. I worked for 4 week in Calcutta working with the Missionaries of Charity. Actually had the privilege to work with Mother Theresa at a place called Nirmal Hriday. I spent several weeks in Kenya working with the families who live on the garbage dumps. I spent several weeks in Haiti building homes for the poor. Again, this represents less then 1% of my hands on work with poverty. I am not willing to divulge anymore, but if anyone cars to take me up on my bet, I am willing.

 

I have nothing against poor, in fact I believe all the political correctness and people unwilling to admit the problems that plague the poor is the problem. Can't fix the problem if you do not recognize the problem. Listen to the Adam Carolla Gavin Newsom interview. Adam hits it right on the head.

 

Ignoring all the self-promotion, you did indeed state that the crew were undereducated. Here: http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=42372087&highlight=undereducated#post42372087

 

 

 

I don't recall whether it was you, or Zackster who commented about my Princess comments... but here's a 2010 review where I brought up the same issue: http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=42372087&highlight=undereducated#post42372087

 

 

 

.

Edited April 10, 2014 by sjbdtz

[Out to sea!]

Opening day:

 

 

 

 

There I am, thinner, and younger... in the upper-right corner.

 

 

I'm not sure what statements I made that should make me need to visit Dubai to validate them...all I said was a fair wage underwritten by a Service Charge is equally (or better) motivating than a post-service tip.

 

Thanks! Most of the people who've met me reach that same conclusion. I am fun. :)

 

 

 

Stephen

 

 

P.S. Ironically, on opening day the parking lot wasn't yet paved, AND the air conditioning was wonky... funny you'd pick those two things to ask about.

 

 

.

 

So opening day will be the 8th of January, 2021? O was it 1921?? :confused:

[Out to sea!]

NCL says there is no need to tip but passengers are free to if they want to. I generally don't tip above the service charge (or the 15% added to the bar bill) but will if it is warranted. And I still maintain that paying the crew a salary will reduce tips even more because most people won't tip salaried crew at all. Of course that is pure conjecture on my part, but the same holds true for your position that people will tip salaried crew. As for your comment "It is unfortunate that we couldn't have a intellectual debate" I believed that you and I were but you keep lumping me in with others posting to this thread.

 

They may lose some true "tips" but they would be guaranteed the "service charge" as no one could pull them. I believe they would make more money in the overall scheme of things.

[sparks1093]

They may lose some true "tips" but they would be guaranteed the "service charge" as no one could pull them. I believe they would make more money in the overall scheme of things.

 

If smeyer is right (and I have no reason to doubt him) less than 10% of the passengers will adjust the service charge for any reason and of course some of those will adjust to zero. That doesn't seem like it's a huge problem. Yes, the crew loses a little under that system but there are a good number of people that will leave tips regularly enough to make up any short fall.

 

I don't think it's right that people can adjust the charges for a reason not related to the service received but at the end of the day that's NCL's issue to deal with. Personally I don't think it would be right to raise the fares of everyone just because a small percentage leaves nothing.

[MCAT48]

I don't think people should have to prove who they are to strangers on the internet especially when the argument is a lose-lose battle. Those who argue for dsc and those who argue against it are the same people all the time, nothing ever changes.

[sixesandeights]

All I am going to say on this topic is this....all you people that post to feel high and mighty and belittle people who dont agree with the tipping policy are what is wrong with this world. You are not better then anyone on this site. You are not a better person for tipping even when the service is bad, you are not a better person because you tried to make someone feel bad on an internet site. These things dont make you a better person they make you SMALL. If you have to get your self worth by belittle people I really feel sorry for you, and anyone that is in your life because this behavior likely spills out onto them as well. Reading the comments a lot of you people are making really makes me sick to my stomach that I like NCL cruises. If the boats were filled with people like you the company would go under very quickly.

 

BE AN AMBASSADOR FOR NCL THROUGH PLEASANT INTERACTION, NOT THROUGH TREATING OTHERS LIKE CRAP. Each and everyone of you that made a comment just to belittle should be ashamed of yourself. Go to other cruise line boards on this site. NONE OF THEM have half the negativity this board does....

 

6&8

Edited April 10, 2014 by sixesandeights

[Out to sea!]

If smeyer is right (and I have no reason to doubt him) less than 10% of the passengers will adjust the service charge for any reason and of course some of those will adjust to zero. That doesn't seem like it's a huge problem. Yes, the crew loses a little under that system but there are a good number of people that will leave tips regularly enough to make up any short fall.

 

I don't think it's right that people can adjust the charges for a reason not related to the service received but at the end of the day that's NCL's issue to deal with. Personally I don't think it would be right to raise the fares of everyone just because a small percentage leaves nothing.

 

Just as an experiment, the Epic hold about 4,000 passengers. If 10% pulled their service charge, that would be 400x$84 (for a 7 night cruise) = $33,600......on a single cruise! I don't know about you but that is a huge amount to me.

 

The price of the cruise fare overall would not change. A $500 cruise with $84 service charge is the same as a $584 cruise with the service charge included. With the latter, the service charge could not be removed though (which is what I wold like to see).

Edited April 10, 2014 by Out to sea!

[Out to sea!]

All I am going to say on this topic is this....all you people that post to feel high and mighty and belittle people who dont agree with the tipping policy are what is wrong with this world. You are not better then anyone on this site. You are not a better person for tipping even when the service is bad, you are not a better person because you tried to make someone feel bad on an internet site. These things dont make you a better person they make you SMALL. If you have to get your self worth by belittle people I really feel sorry for you, and anyone that is in your life because this behavior likely spills out onto them as well. Reading the comments a lot of you people are making really makes me sick to my stomach that I like NCL cruises. If the boats were filled with people like you the company would go under very quickly.

 

BE AN AMBASSADOR FOR NCL THROUGH PLEASANT INTERACTION, NOT THROUGH TREATING OTHERS LIKE CRAP. Each and everyone of you that made a comment just to belittle should be ashamed of yourself. Go to other cruise line boards on this site. NONE OF THEM have half the negativity this board does....

 

6&8

 

You have obviously never visited the Carnival forums because if you had, you would know your last statement couldn't be further from the truth.

Edited April 10, 2014 by Out to sea!

[sparks1093]

Just as an experiment, the Epic hold about 4,000 passengers. If 10% pulled their service charge, that would be 400x$84 (for a 7 night cruise) = $33,600......on a single cruise! I don't know about you but that is a huge amount to me.

 

The price of the cruise fare overall would not change. A $500 cruise with $84 service charge is the same as a $584 cruise with the service charge included. With the latter, the service charge could not be removed though (which is what I wold like to see).

 

Problem is we have no idea how many of the crew share in the service charges. Assuming 1500 crew on the Epic split it that's $22.40 on the week. Of course neither of us has any idea of all of the numbers so speculating really doesn't get us anywhere. I too hate to see the crew get stiffed, I just don't see the answer in what you are proposing. (and for a family of 7 that's $588 that has to be paid 75 days before the cruise, not on the cruise itself, assuming of course the increase is only $12 per day and extra isn't tacked on behind the scenes.)

[sjbdtz]

So opening day will be the 8th of January, 2021? O was it 1921?? :confused:

 

 

21st of August, 2001.... 3 weeks before 9/11.

[bplazo]

On one of our cruises where we had four in an inside cabin we chose to reduce our fee to $10 a day for the 3rd and 4th person. This brought out total to $44 a day for the cabin rather than $48. Seemed to us like a fair amount. We did not totally eliminate it for those two knowing that more than just the cabin stewards get the money. It should be noted, as is the case with a lot of people, we did individually tip for service during the cruise as well. They did ask us why we wnated to reduce it and I just told them there were four of us in the cabin and tipped along the way. Was not made to feel bad about it at all.

 

Omg, seriously you reduced the amount.