Another child molestation on Disney Dream

[moki'smommy]

I had no idea about a "6 foot" rule. We've been extremely close and chummy with many CM's over the years....arms around each other talking, hugging and even a friendly kiss or two. :confused:

 

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Forums mobile app

 

Yes, we've done hugs with servers, etc. as well...typically in the MDR. This might have been a different issue because the CM was a stage actor enjoying some "off" time at the adult pool area and clearly not in costume. Again, all I know is what he said to us at that time. He DID make a point of dressing in shirt and shorts over his swimsuit before coming over to us. Frankly, MY concern was that he not violate any rules on our behalf; while we would have loved to spend time with him on board, he was there doing a job. We can catch up during breaks between contracts!

[Ex techie]

Again, you folks are REALLY overstating the value of background checks as defensive tools. They are not, they are there simply to provide an affirmative defense against lawsuits by showing some level of diligence.

Just a general background check.

A standard check that is accepted by DCL in the UK is just £26. And enhanced check is £44.

 

Standard CRB:

 

Spent and Unspent Convictions, Cautions, Reprimands and Final Warnings. So your whole criminal record.

 

Enhanced CRB:

 

Same as above + additional relevent information held on you by the police, disclosed at the discretion of your local police force's Chief Constable's discretion. That includes police intelligence on you (mental health issues, if they know you're a drug user, if you reside with a convicted paedophile, etc) and if you were ever arrested or charged or summoned to court, but no further action was taken.

 

ex techie

 

The only people they will keep from being employed is someone who has a prior conviction for a sexual crime. Period. A full investigative check would be more probative, but they typically run about $15,000 per person, so not practical.

 

$15,000? Is that a correct figure?

 

The correct way to avoid issues like this is to set one rule. NO staff member shall ever be alone with a minor passenger. Ever. Set it, enforce it and you will keep incidents like this to a minimum. It's the only thing that works.

 

And DCL have that policy, train they're staff to follow that policy, enforce it aboard as far as they can and it hasn't worked recently, twice.

How do they ensure they're employees to follow that rule?

 

ex techie

Edited April 14, 2014 by Ex techie

[Ex techie]

Yes' date=' we've done hugs with servers, etc. as well...typically in the MDR. This might have been a different issue because the CM was a stage actor enjoying some "off" time at the adult pool area and clearly not in costume. Again, all I know is what he said to us at that time. He DID make a point of dressing in shirt and shorts over his swimsuit before coming over to us. Frankly, MY concern was that he not violate any rules on our behalf; while we would have loved to spend time with him on board, he was there doing a job. We can catch up during breaks between contracts![/quote']

 

The 6 foot distance and appropriate stance rule is to be used in situations of a poor situation, a confrontation, or when it is necessary to create a boundary that is appropriate.

Him dressing in covered attire and standing back was an example of Disney training of how to handle the situation he was faced with.

An unsolicited message being passed on to him, him showing it to his line manager, his line manager not approving further continuing a messaging situation and him then displaying the appropriate behavior and demeanour to apologize and state what had happened.

The enforcement happened at the appropriate level and he did follow procedure by turning the note over to his manager.

 

ex techie

Edited April 14, 2014 by Ex techie

[moki'smommy]

Techie, is a first time violation of this policy grounds for immediate dismissal? That's the kind of "taking the policy seriously" that needs to be happening.

 

The CM who "touched" a child in an elevator--never should have been on a guest elevator. Never should have been with a guest alone (of any age). Sure, this might have been the first time he violated the policy...or maybe not. None of us knows that.

 

Yes, we have all seen those trustworthy CMs--the stateroom host who carefully props the door open before investigating a problem in our cabin, etc. But obviously there are some of the other variety around. The "NO alone with a guest" policy needs to be totally, strictly enforced. It may be....or they may give the CM a second chance.

 

You were there. How good is the enforcement?

[Ex techie]

Techie' date=' is a first time violation of this policy grounds for immediate dismissal? That's the kind of "taking the policy seriously" that needs to be happening.

 

The CM who "touched" a child in an elevator--never should have been on a guest elevator. Never should have been with a guest alone (of any age). Sure, this might have been the first time he violated the policy...or maybe not. None of us knows that.

 

Yes, we have all seen those trustworthy CMs--the stateroom host who carefully props the door open before investigating a problem in our cabin, etc. But obviously there are some of the other variety around. The "NO alone with a guest" policy needs to be totally, strictly enforced. It may be....or they may give the CM a second chance.

 

You were there. How good is the enforcement?[/quote']

 

YES a first time violation is absolute grounds for dismissal.

And yes I did ride the Guests elevators with Guests (against company rules, but when you are on a tight schedule and you have to meet, and chat it can be very difficult to get from venue A to B on time and the crew elevators are always busy, and I would never have allowed myself to be alone in an elevator with a single Guest). I also used the Guest Bathrooms on Beat Street when I couldn't get to a crew bathroom and back in time for my duties. I also drank lemonade from the soda fountains on deck 9, but would always ask a Guest to go ahead of me first.

 

And when I found a lost child on deck 9, I asked her to come with me to nearest phone on the Starboard side next to the forward stack in full view of everyone on that deck and called the Club to send 2 people to pick her up.

No way was I going to be alone or escort her away from that area by myself.

 

DCL have the rules for a reason, and unless it's life and death, you have to cover you're behind.

 

ex techie

[moki'smommy]

Good to know--thanks for the reply~

[Ex techie]

Another example of me not putting myself in a situation where i could be accused of anything:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=39814080&postcount=62

 

ex techie

[Ex techie]

And in regards to enforcement, I was written up for eating chicken tenders and 2 slices of pizza on deck 9 by a restaurant manager after I had spent my 30 minutes dinner break rehearsing the new variety act again and the crew mess had closed afterwards so I was not able to get dinner.

My line manager wasn't interested, suggested I try the vending machine.....

 

ex techie

[Host Mick]

As CC doesn't allow or have a polling system, anyone that has contributed to this thread, do you think that a basic criminal background check that is required by DCL before being considered to be an appropriate crew member aboard is adequate or should a more detailed check be undertaken, and how often should that CBC be taken in your opinion?

 

Yes/No.

 

After each contract

After 12 months

After 2 years

After 5 years

After 10 years

 

Do you think that an enhanced CBC for all ship wide personal should be the normal process or just those that work directly and specifically with children?

 

ex techie

 

Cruise Critic has a polling feature for the first post of a topic only.

[Loonbeam]

Not sure who asked about the $15K but yes, it is. When I worked on a committee to hire a new CEO, we ordered one of these on each candidate.

 

An investigation like this involves sending out people to interview co-workers, neighbors, etc. They may even include surveillance in public areas. They also include deep background checks, including manual searches of court records possibly in several venues, hence the expense.

 

If any kind of check will find a history of sexual misconduct, this will (trust me the detail is SCARY) but they are not practical in this case.

 

Most of the automated level checks are cursory, and sometimes inaccurate, especially once you get below the federal and state level.

 

And DCL have that policy, train they're staff to follow that policy, enforce it aboard as far as they can and it hasn't worked recently, twice.

How do they ensure they're employees to follow that rule?

 

ex techie

[Irene7]

As CC doesn't allow or have a polling system, anyone that has contributed to this thread, do you think that a basic criminal background check that is required by DCL before being considered to be an appropriate crew member aboard is adequate or should a more detailed check be undertaken, and how often should that CBC be taken in your opinion?

 

Yes/No.

 

After each contract

After 12 months

After 2 years

After 5 years

After 10 years

 

Do you think that an enhanced CBC for all ship wide personal should be the normal process or just those that work directly and specifically with children?

 

ex techie

 

First question : NO the current check is not adequate.

Second: After 12 months

Third: An enhanced CBC should be for ALL employees. There are children running around the ship without their parents, so yes any employee could have access to the children.

Edited April 14, 2014 by Irene7

[moki'smommy]

While I totally agree that DCL needs to screen employees, that doesn't eliminate the problems that may be caused by guests. I know of at least 3 "incidents" involving a guest preying on teens on DCL ships; I'm completely sure that there are more than those I am familiar with. The fact that an individual or one of his relatives has sufficient funds to pay for a DCL cruise does not make him a safe person.

 

DCL takes these issues very seriously and strongly encourages the family involved to contact shoreside authorities while still on the ship. Unfortunately, the Brevard County justice system does not take the matter as seriously. DCL does ban the perpetrators from their ships permanently.

[chengkp75]

YES a first time violation is absolute grounds for dismissal.

And yes I did ride the Guests elevators with Guests (against company rules, but when you are on a tight schedule and you have to meet, and chat it can be very difficult to get from venue A to B on time and the crew elevators are always busy, and I would never have allowed myself to be alone in an elevator with a single Guest). I also used the Guest Bathrooms on Beat Street when I couldn't get to a crew bathroom and back in time for my duties. I also drank lemonade from the soda fountains on deck 9, but would always ask a Guest to go ahead of me first.

 

 

ex techie

 

Ratted yourself out, heh, techie?

 

Not sure how invasive the surveillance team is on DCL, since there is no casino, but this is one area where the team on NCL was all over it. They would spot a uniform type that wasn't supposed to be in the area, or using the facility, would capture the image, either enhance to get the nametag or run facial recognition to ID the crewmember, and immediately issue a disciplinary action, be it a written warning to the CM's cabin and supervisor, a written observation to the Staff Captain, or a call to Security. They were good enough that some of my junior engineers who were in civilian clothing and decided to use a dining venue to which they were not allowed, were caught just because Surveillance recognized them from the officer's mess. Not saying that this would catch all perpetrators, by any means, but it sure put the fear of god in a lot of crew minds.

 

My maintenance guys were instructed to never enter a passenger cabin unless there was an accompanying work order, even if asked by a passenger, so that they could justify their presence in the cabin, at the time written on the work order, against the surveillance video and the door lock historical data.

[purplethorn]

Background checks ... No background checks...blah blah blah. The bottom line is don't leave your 13 year old daughter alone in a room where you know strangers have a key. Where were the parents?

THIS ^^

 

If you are going to leave your child roam around the ship unattended you better teach them some street smarts :). I cannot place the whole blame on DCL as there is always some employees that will slip through the cracks.

Not to mention that I am sure this happens more often that we would like but it's never reported .. and not only on Disney ships

[JENNYDISNEY]

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/disney-cruise-line-worker-charged-with-molestation-on-ship/25420302

 

OMG!!!!!!!:eek::eek::eek::eek: This guy was our stateroom host last year! He was nothing but nice! one would of never thought! What a creeper!:mad:

[moki'smommy]

I just watched and read the latest news reports. He "lured" her into a stateroom? Ummmm Rule number 1 on ALL of our cruises has always been "DO NOT enter any cabin other than your own AND do not invite anyone into our cabin." While a kid is taught to obey/respect an adult, a kid can also be taught to scream and run if someone is trying to get you to violate one of mom's rules.

 

Ship is in port on last day of cruise? That means breakfast and hurrying to get off. Where were the parents?

[DahliaRW]

I just watched and read the latest news reports. He "lured" her into a stateroom? Ummmm Rule number 1 on ALL of our cruises has always been "DO NOT enter any cabin other than your own AND do not invite anyone into our cabin." While a kid is taught to obey/respect an adult' date=' a kid can also be taught to scream and run if someone is trying to get you to violate one of mom's rules.

 

Ship is in port on last day of cruise? That means breakfast and hurrying to get off. Where were the parents?[/quote']

 

"morning of" could be any time after midnight. It may not have been when everyone is waking up morning. And I'd guess it was pretty early in the am since no one saw any of this - on debarkation day there were lots of people in the halls by the time we were heading to early breakfast - including our room steward and several others just in our long hallway.

 

But I can't find anything that says he forced her into the stateroom. Not that this is ok under any circumstances, but it may have been preventable by simply running away!

[moki'smommy]

"morning of" could be any time after midnight. It may not have been when everyone is waking up morning. And I'd guess it was pretty early in the am since no one saw any of this - on debarkation day there were lots of people in the halls by the time we were heading to early breakfast - including our room steward and several others just in our long hallway.

 

But I can't find anything that says he forced her into the stateroom. Not that this is ok under any circumstances, but it may have been preventable by simply running away!

 

What I saw said he "lured" her into a stateroom, initially confined her there, and released her when she said that her parents would be looking for her. OK, we don't know what happened totally...but you are right--nothing says he forced her into the room.

 

On the other hand, she had probably developed a degree of trust over the 4 days of the cruise since he was her stateroom host.

 

Sad...no matter what the details.

[DahliaRW]

What I saw said he "lured" her into a stateroom' date=' initially confined her there, and released her when she said that her parents would be looking for her. OK, we don't know what happened totally...but you are right--nothing says he forced her into the room.

 

On the other hand, she had probably developed a degree of trust over the 4 days of the cruise since he was her stateroom host.

 

Sad...no matter what the details.[/quote']

 

Was he her host? I had read earlier that he wasn't the family's stateroom host and the girls claimed to not know him before this incident.

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/disney-cruise-line-worker-accused-of-molesting-teen-passenger/

Edited April 14, 2014 by DahliaRW

[moki'smommy]

Was he her host? I had read earlier that he wasn't the family's stateroom host and the girls claimed to not know him before this incident.

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/disney-cruise-line-worker-accused-of-molesting-teen-passenger/

 

The you tube of the orlando news said he was her stateroom host....unless I mis-understood.

[DahliaRW]

I can't find anything that says he knew her, just that he knew she was 13. The articles I've found say the police statements says the girl did not know him.

[Ex techie]

Chief,

I'm not sure why you think I have ratted myself out?

I've admitted to breaking company protocol/policy regarding the use of Guest Restrooms/Elevators and utilizing drinking facilities, with the best Guest Service practices (i.e never stand in line in front of a Guest and to not allow myself to be alone with a Guest?)

 

 

What you have done Sir, is expose the lack of surveillance DCL had back then and or ability to monitor it or act on it.

The fact they did not provide appropriate facilities to enable the CM to do their job should be noted, and I think you would agree with that.

With no casino, I doubt the Magic now has anymore than the 2 Security Officers 12hrs on 12hrs off, and Quarter Masters monitoring all areas of the ship.

 

The drinking of water or use of the soda fountain in front of Guests was introduced after a Cruise Staff member passed out during a deck party on the Magic due to de-hydration. Great show for the Guests to watch a lady pass out, hence the relaxation of the rule. And bottled water also being provided.

 

ex techie

[Ex techie]

I can't find anything that says he knew her, just that he knew she was 13. The articles I've found say the police statements says the girl did not know him.

 

Not really a conclusive or reliable source of information.

Best wait until a full and through investigation takes place IMO.

 

ex techie

[Ex techie]

Cruise Critic has a polling feature for the first post of a topic only.

 

Thats good to hear Host Mick.

Is it a new feature or one that has always been there?

 

ex techie

[chengkp75]

Chief,

I'm not sure why you think I have ratted myself out?

I've admitted to breaking company protocol/policy regarding the use of Guest Restrooms/Elevators and utilizing drinking facilities, with the best Guest Service practices (i.e never stand in line in front of a Guest and to not allow myself to be alone with a Guest?)

 

 

What you have done Sir, is expose the lack of surveillance DCL had back then and or ability to monitor it or act on it.

The fact they did not provide appropriate facilities to enable the CM to do their job should be noted, and I think you would agree with that.

With no casino, I doubt the Magic now has anymore than the 2 Security Officers 12hrs on 12hrs off, and Quarter Masters monitoring all areas of the ship.

 

The drinking of water or use of the soda fountain in front of Guests was introduced after a Cruise Staff member passed out during a deck party on the Magic due to de-hydration. Great show for the Guests to watch a lady pass out, hence the relaxation of the rule. And bottled water also being provided.

 

ex techie

 

Just saying that you admitted to breaking the rules. Since you're an ex-employee, there's no foul, and no statute of limitations. :D

 

Wow, at NCL, the Surveillance department is separate from Security. There is a Security Officer and 5-6 Security crew.

 

Surveillance reports directly to the Captain, along with a parallel reporting responsibility to shoreside management. There will normally be a Surveillance Supervisor and 4-6 surveillance operators. They monitor about a dozen screens that rotate through the 300+ cameras onboard. Each camera feed is recorded on DVD, and they have playback capability at any time while still recording in real time. As I said, Surveillance can issue a warning or a letter of dismissal directly to the crewmember, without having to so much as notify the crewmember's supervisor or department head.

 

While surveillance started with the casino, it has grown to protect the company from passenger liability, and crew liability as well. Really surprised that DCL hasn't realized the insurance benefits of the cameras.