Was she cranky or right- Disabled person in a group

[VASOXFANN]

You have to wonder about people who are complaining every time you see them.....on a cruise! :rolleyes:

[IPlayWithString]

Sounds to me like she is just a miserable person and wants to make everyone else miserable by complaining loudly and often.

 

I know the type

 

Me too, unfortunately. Several years ago, the district attendance zones in our school district were changed and my son ended up going to a different school than the one he'd been at for 2 yrs at that point. The principal at his new school had been moved from a school he really liked and was ticked off about it. He spent the entire school year making teachers miserable and I always got a weird vibe off him that I couldn't quite put my finger on. He didn't take concerns seriously and I was REALLY upset by some of the things he did and said to me.

 

I damn near threw a party when I found out at the end of that school year he was going to be replaced.

[RuthlessBoss]

I vote overwhelmed and frustrated. Can't be easy to travel with a handicapped person. I think some compassion is in order.

 

The problem with us judging, is we don't know the degree of the handicap. If it was a severe physical one, why would she cruise without some back up assist of someone? This was a huge undertaking for one person. I don't know what it would be like with a child. I've seen many severely handicapped children on cruises, but they've always been surrounded by family or at least one other person. If a person needs assist, going it alone can't be a fun cruise. I do believe she was expecting more help than she got, but staff did pitch in. You can't change the pitch of a floating ramp and you don't do self assist if you need assist.

[Need-a-vacation]

As I said in post #20, foreign countries do not need to give consideration to those who require special needs. However, all cruise ships that have an American port of call, port of embarkation or a port of disembarkation are REQUIRED to be in FULL compliance with the ADA.

 

Believe me, as someone who is traveling for leisure international each month, I think I have adapted to the expectations when traveling internationally. However, it doesn't change the fact that cruise ships need to be ADA accessible. You should do some research. It was ruled in June 2005.

 

I think Carnival absolutely met that requirement by providing assistance to get the wheelchair up the ramp and on to the ship. They made the ship accessible to the passenger in spite of the limitations of the facilities provided by a foreign third-party. That is the spirit of the law and they did all they could be possibly expected to do. Carnival (or any other cruise line) can only control what's theirs and they did it. I'm not sure what else this passenger wanted.

 

I suppose the next option would be for all ships that port in the US to boycott any port that is not compliant with U.S. ADA laws until they refurbish the facilities to meet our laws??

[cruizinisthebest]

The problem with us judging, is we don't know the degree of the handicap. If it was a severe physical one, why would she cruise without some back up assist of someone? This was a huge undertaking for one personby. I don't know what it would be like with a child. I've seen many severely handicapped children on cruises, but they've always been surrounded by family or at least one other person. If a person needs assist, going it alone can't be a fun cruise. I do believe she was expecting more help than she got, but staff did pitch in. You can't change the pitch of a floating ramp and you don't do self assist if you need assist.

 

Didn't the OP say she was traveling with her son?

 

In any case, I don't know why she expected something that's not a permanent fixture to meet ADA regulations. Please.

 

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[nitro2448]

Didn't the OP say she was traveling with her son?

 

In any case, I don't know why she expected something that's not a permanent fixture to meet ADA regulations. Please.

 

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Yes, she did say that

[CrusieToy]

ADA wouldn't apply in a foreign country, and self-assist means just that. I vote cranky.

 

I agree. Cranky!

[keeponcruising]

Cranky. There are people out there that just go around looking for ADA non-compliance to sue. Maybe she is one of them.

 

I take my mother all the time on cruises. She has been in WC's and rolling walkers. There is always someone there to help her on and off the ship.

[RuthlessBoss]

Didn't the OP say she was traveling with her son?

 

In any case, I don't know why she expected something that's not a permanent fixture to meet ADA regulations. Please.

 

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Travelling with a w/c bound son is how I read it. Why else would she be trying to push a w/c up a ramp;)

[Laughing Angel]

Sounds cranky to me.

 

Cranky, and also unclear on the scope of ADA regulations, confused on the definition of self assist and vague about the concept of asking for and being appreciative of any assistance given.

[sparks1093]

Appears to be cranky.

[cruizinisthebest]

Travelling with a w/c bound son is how I read it. Why else would she be trying to push a w/c up a ramp;)

 

Actually now that I reread it, it's not clear if it was her or her son in the wheelchair. But either way, the disabled person wasn't traveling alone so they didn't go on the trip without assistance.

 

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[Perfect Stranger]

At first I thought this person was just being really cranky, but I thought I would post the two situations on the board. A mother was travelling with her son in a wheel chair. I ran into her twice while on a cruise while she was complaining to staff and escalating to management.

 

Situation 1 - At Nassau the angle of the boarding ramp was steep. With in the first two seconds of her pushing the wheelchair up the ramp a crew member offered her assistance and helped her make it up the ramp.

 

Just for clarification for those who didn't know who was pushing who, it sounds like the mother was pushing the son.

[jimdalva]

Although it does not apply to a foreign country, it does apply to a foreign flagged passenger cruise ship. In June 2005, the Supreme Court has ruled that any foreign flagged cruise ship that stops in an American port of call or has an American port of embarkation/disembarkation, the ship must be in full compliance of the Americans with Disabilities Act or they cannot legally dock in any of the United States ports.

 

The ship IS compliant---the foreign dock is not!

[billys5764]

Pure crank!

[jimdalva]

I vote overwhelmed and frustrated. Can't be easy to travel with a handicapped person. I think some compassion is in order.

 

Agree

[CdrescherRBL152]

Yes, true, but this happened in Nassau.

 

The problem being the ship was ADA complaint. Just cause the ramp maybe steep it is still a ramp. Had simular sitution a few years ago. Drive a tour bus for a living. Lady sued the company I was working for cause her wheelchair was wider then are lift. Court ruled the bus had to have a lift that would fit a standard size wheelchair. Which it did. Here I believe the courts would find that a ramp is all that is required, as the angle is influenced by nature.

 

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[Mary Ellen1]

Sounds cranky to me.

 

Cranky, and also unclear on the scope of ADA regulations, confused on the definition of self assist and vague about the concept of asking for and being appreciative of any assistance given.

 

Good post.

 

My vote is "Special. More Special than the Rest of Us." You know the type. Whenever we encounter one, I remind myself that I may be Special, but certain people are More Special. I myself am only Regular Special. :rolleyes:

[goaties]

I will say in Carnival's defense: My mom just had gallbladder surgery and was moving very slowly. A nice carnival employee got a wheelchair, without us asking, and put my mom in the chair and away we went, they pushed her all the way in front of a bunch of rude people all the way to the lido deck. My mom had lung cancer at the time and was diagnosed as soon as we got home. We would not take anything for the time on the cruise with her. We fought the cancer long and hard and we lost her within 6 months. She never smoked and was never around chemicals. 1% get small cell lung cancer and she was the one. We admired carnival for their help without even asking we got the royal treatment. Mom would have never asked for a chair. Angels were watching that day and provided for us. I was amazed at the people that would not get out of the way as he pushed her to the ship. She loved the cruise. Help is there. Maybe the lady just did not ask for help. I say Carnival will help....

[Gold Finch]

Thank you for the legal update. We have seen crew helping disabled persons onto tenders when it took a long time and they probably should not have gone ashore. But the crew have always been very helpful to all.

[Carolina RagDoll]

Yes, I think the lady was cranky. But we don't know the whole story. From much experience of traveling with a handicapped companion, I can tell you that I spent a lot of time researching logistics of the best way to get a wheelchair, electric scooter, and rolling walker onto and off of airplanes, cruise ships and various land resorts. I asked the most detailed questions, where are curb cuts, what is grade on ramps, which of her conveyances were permitted, would there be assistance or would I be on my own to make it work, were there steps, because she could walk a little on the flat but could not make it up or down even a single step. Sometimes I got great, correct answers and other times I got incorrect answers which made our situation that much harder and for her embarrassing. Vacationing with a handicapped person is never purely pleasure because you have to be constantly looking out for potential problems not to mention that you may have to perform other personal assistance in unfamiliar and sometimes very small areas. I hope this does not come a cross as a complaint, because I would not trade one single minute of the travel we have enjoyed even though some of it was difficult at the time. I just wanted to give you an idea of what it is like from a caregivers perspective.

 

All that being said, I have always had good experiences with crew offering help or if they didn't offer it, providing help after I politely asked for assistance.

 

None of this gives me or anyone else a license to be abusive to others.

 

But before we judge this lady too harshly, let's take a moment to reflect on how fortunate that we are not to be in a wheelchair or to be the one pushing the wheelchair. I commend her for going to the extra work to take her loved one on a nice vacation when it would have been so much easier on her to stay at home.

 

Sorry for climbing up on a soapbox.

[allilivesay]

Was this cranky lady on the fantasy the first week of June??

 

 

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[canadiancruiser13]

Gather she isn't the flower of the of the "Rose Bush".

[JustCruiseMe]

I agree she behaved in a cranky manner and that really is unacceptable when staff were really willing to help.

 

I wonder if this crankiness is due to more than meets the eye. Having a child with a disability is hard sometimes. There are so many extra struggles that sometimes wear you down. Always having to advocate for that child. Perhaps she is just stressed beyond belief and sadly she wasn't able to relax and go with the flow on the trip.

 

Again, her behavior was not appropriate but I just wonder if there is a deep rooted cause. I speak from experience as a mom with a child with special needs how after years of fighting the systems just for my son to get what he is entitled to (ie therapies that are supposed to be covered by our insurance but they try to deny, appropriate educational placements, extra financial strains, etc it unfortunately can really take its toll. You love your child so much and you would do anything for them but sometimes you also get so jaded by the fight. Again, please know I'm just looking at what might be the cause her unreasonable behavior - certainly not saying it is okay.

Totally agree with this. No one who has ever taken care of someone for years that are totally dependent do not realize what it takes and how what might seem a simple thing as a ramp that isn't steep can make or break the day. I mean if one is having to ask for help all the time, it gets tiring because it's on top of every thing you do.

 

You just don't realize and it is different if the person you are helping is going to get better and more independant. If that person is never getting any better you just can't imagine the stress and fatigue you feel.

 

You just can't imagine unless you've done or are doing it. So I'd say she was cranky but probably tired physically and emotionally. Give her a break.

[ccruisequeen]

Someone that's overwhelmed or stressed by their situation may get rude and cranky about stuff like this, but are generally grateful when people help them navigate the difficulty. Not going on a tirade about how they are out of compliance with the law even though they were helped as much as possible. The ramp situation is certainly not ideal for a wheelchair, but they did everything they could do at that moment to address it. She sounds more like a mom on a mission to find every shortcoming out there in accommodating those with disabilities.

 

I think it's important to make people aware when a situation is set up in a way that creates a difficulty because it might be something that can be addressed for the long term. The ramp is probably not in that category, but lots of things might be. But being a jerk to the people at the door that can't do a blasted thing about it is not the way to improve awareness and get things changed when possible.

 

Perhaps what cruise lines CAN do is get ahead of the situation and manage expectations by providing a "hints and tips" type package for passengers that have identified themselves as disabled in some fashion. It could include information like "some passengers find the ramp at Nassau a little steep depending on the conditions in port that day. We will have staff there to help passengers up and down the ramp as needed" or something like that. I think the passenger who couldn't get their wheelchair through at the top of the ramp should let the special needs department know. The solution might be a simple as the ship having it's own right-sized chair available at the ramp like they do for getting passengers on a plane.

 

The Special Needs Dept is set up. You designate the size of wheelchair or other equipment etc. You can contact them any time. They will even make sure that if your MDR is on two levels, that you will be placed on the lower level. The website has special deck layouts that show where the restrooms are, where seating is in the theater, which areas are not accessible.