Port of Tampa News for Carnival Cruise Line (and others).

[Earthworm Jim]

There are plenty of people (like me) who prefer smaller ships, and having one or two or even three of these, might draw a certain clientele, who either live in the area, or like to travel to the area and combine a land vaca with a cruise vacation.

 

But it all comes down to the business decision of which ships are more profitable. If the industry finds the mega ships to be a better investment, then eventually, as the smaller ships eventually retire, there won't be any small ships left for Tampa.

 

Whether they can make a profit with small ships is not the question they are asking themselves. The question they are asking, being a profit driven corporation, is which is more profitable, a smaller ship of a mega ship?

[keyguide]

This is probably just a ridiculous idea that only someone who knows nothing about how these things work would suggest, but how about a lock under the bridge to lower the water level so the ship has more clearance?

 

Ship sails into lock as it approaches bridge, lock doors close, they pump out water to lower the ship (dredging under lock may be required so ships don't hit bottom), ship sails under bridge, pump water back in to return to sea level, open lock doors and ship sails out.

 

It would be too slow a process clogging up the entrance to the bay if it had to be done all the time, but a couple of times a week for a cruise ships might be viable. The rest of the time just leave the lock doors open at both ends and other ship traffic can sail through like they currently do.

 

For all I know this would cost more than the other options, but it seems like it would be technologically possible.

Can it be done ...yes. Very problematic with the wind ,rainstorms and fog.Not to mention any failure electrical outage, pump failure, lock failure would close the port.(a ripe target for a would be terrorist) Good out of the box thinking

though.

[Earthworm Jim]

The Skyway Bridge isn't that old. (Built 1980) Why wasn't it built higher in the first place? Much older bridges at the entrance to harbors, such as the Golden Gate (1937 - 220' clearance) and Verrazano Narrows (1964 - 228' clearance) bridges, were built high enough that modern cruise ships can still pass under. Why was the construction of the Skyway Bridge (193' clearance) so short-sighted to not be built to a similar clearance?

 

I can't imagine it would have cost that much more to build it higher initially. But I guess hindsight is always 20-20.

Edited July 2, 2014 by Earthworm Jim

[TheInnocentAge]

The Skyway Bridge isn't that old. (Built 1980) Why wasn't it built higher in the first place? Much older bridges at the entrance to harbors, such as the Golden Gate (1937 - 220' clearance) and Verrazano Narrows (1964 - 228' clearance) bridges, were built high enough that modern cruise ships can still pass under. Why was the construction of the Skyway Bridge (193' clearance) so short-sighted to not be built to a similar clearance?

 

It was built to replace a bridge that was struck by a freighter and collapsed, killing over 30 people (I think that was 1980, then the new bridge took a few years to be completed). That older bridge had an even lower clearance to it. Just over a hundred feet if I recall. I guess at the time there was no need to go any higher than that, but you're right, it certainly could have been higher if they wanted.

Edited July 2, 2014 by TheInnocentAge

[Earthworm Jim]

Can it be done ...yes. Very problematic with the wind ,rainstorms and fog.Not to mention any failure electrical outage, pump failure, lock failure would close the port.(a ripe target for a would be terrorist) Good out of the box thinking

though.

 

Perhaps they'd also have to dredge a new channel under the approaches to the bridge, as is proposed under the drawbridge option, to allow sea traffic an alternate route around the lock. But that would of course greatly increase the cost.

 

Unless the main channel is wide enough that the lock would only take up a portion of it and other traffic would still have room to fit through while bypassing the lock.

[TheInnocentAge]

I can actually see the Skyway Bridge out my window here at work right now. Here's my two-cents worth from someone who goes jet skiing in this area almost every weekend and is fairly familiar with the waters west of the bridge...

 

Aside from the deep shipping channel that some of you might be familiar with if you've cruised out of Tampa, the water on either side of the channel is only a few feet deep in most places. Aside from a few spots, these shallows go on for miles, both east and west of the bridge. Lots of sandbars during low tides, and acres and acres of sea grass in those areas that are a few feet deep.

 

I can't even imagine the volume of sand that would need to be dredged to allow for a port to be built in that area, but maybe if they consider going a bit north or south, it could happen. Lots of environmental impact either way.

[yankee46]

I rhink we are all missing the obvious. Carnival has ships that are perfect for Tampa, So it would seem that they could move one here and replace it with another. Notice that after the Pride leaves in April there is no replacement scheduled at this time. Its economics folks read between the lines. Carnival has already stated that it will sail less ships to the Caribbean so it can

drive prices up see the latest articles on this The Tampa port is limited to the same old ports. I live in Lakeland and while closer tp Tampa I prefer the extra 30 minutes tp Canaveral for better choices. I think Carnival will abandon this port completely or just keep small Fantasy class her until they retire them. Forget a new Port Taxpayers won,t stand for it Hundreds of millions spent for what?

[FuturzMinion]

I rhink we are all missing the obvious. Carnival has ships that are perfect for Tampa, So it would seem that they could move one here and replace it with another. Notice that after the Pride leaves in April there is no replacement scheduled at this time. Its economics folks read between the lines. Carnival has already stated that it will sail less ships to the Caribbean so it can

drive prices up see the latest articles on this The Tampa port is limited to the same old ports. I live in Lakeland and while closer tp Tampa I prefer the extra 30 minutes tp Canaveral for better choices. I think Carnival will abandon this port completely or just keep small Fantasy class her until they retire them. Forget a new Port Taxpayers won,t stand for it Hundreds of millions spent for what?

No. The Port of Tampa has come a long way, and if Carnival pulls out, it will slowly, yet surely die. Hundreds of millions spent so we can earn millions back in tourist money. It all makes sense. We need to keep supporting Tampa, as it is an important port for the Western Caribbean.

[jimbo5544]

I rhink we are all missing the obvious. Carnival has ships that are perfect for Tampa, So it would seem that they could move one here and replace it with another. Notice that after the Pride leaves in April there is no replacement scheduled at this time. Its economics folks read between the lines. Carnival has already stated that it will sail less ships to the Caribbean so it can

 

drive prices up see the latest articles on this The Tampa port is limited to the same old ports. I live in Lakeland and while closer tp Tampa I prefer the extra 30 minutes tp Canaveral for better choices. I think Carnival will abandon this port completely or just keep small Fantasy class her until they retire them. Forget a new Port Taxpayers won,t stand for it Hundreds of millions spent for what?

 

 

While I can understand you drawing that conclusion the facts are that the sal the Caribbean from many Florida home ports. It makes much more sense that it is a bridge restriction issue rather than a move to "raise prices". The movement of the Legend and the Pride are driven by totally different circumstances. If the bridge were not an issue there are at 4other ships that they could and probably would put there.

 

 

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[keyguide]

Perhaps they'd also have to dredge a new channel under the approaches to the bridge, as is proposed under the drawbridge option, to allow sea traffic an alternate route around the lock. But that would of course greatly increase the cost.

 

Unless the main channel is wide enough that the lock would only take up a portion of it and other traffic would still have room to fit through while bypassing the lock.

 

Main channel is narrow and rises to 26' on the edge and rocky. Used to scuba dive the sides of the channel.

[jackinbox]

To me that would require some kind of "drawbridge" option on either the northern or southern approaches that do not affect the center span and keep the port in Tampa and close® to the airport rather than moving it to the coast some 45 minutes from the airport.

I don't think the distance from the airport is a problem. As I said in a different thread, it's 28 minutes from TPA to Tierra Verde and the Howard Frankland is rarely bad on Saturdays or Sundays. I doubt the distance from Orlando keeps people from cruising Port Canaveral. Pinellas just makes the most sense logistically. There's several other issues too. The fog in the bay is a problem at times. Plus, if they're going to do something, they need to think far in the future. Someday the port in Havana is going to open up to American ships. It would be helpful to get rid of the 3+ hours each way of extra time it takes for a ship to go all the way in and out of Tampa. 6-7 hours per cruise means more fuel usage as well.

 

Either way this is something that MUST be done or the cruise port will dry up. :eek:

I agree.

 

I am afraid that many of the options would take years to implement - assuming the politicians acted promptly. I think a better solution would be for Carnival to build another Spirit class ship. Many people like this class of ship, and I think that the big mega-ships have been over-produced. A smaller brand new Spirit class ship would be a great addition to Tampa and/or Baltimore.

I don't think there's any sign that any of the major lines are going to be building small ships anymore. The survival of a port in the Tampa Bay area is not just going to depend on Carnival. Royal and NCL are building ships as big as they can build them. Newer Princess and Celebrity ships are getting bigger. Even Holland America is starting to get bigger. Bigger is the trend and I'm sure it's all about money. I seriously doubt we'll ever see a new ship built from one of the majors that will fit under the Skyway. I'd put money on it.

 

There's still time as these smaller ships will be around for a few more years, but the clock is indeed ticking. Do you really think the Inspiration is still going to be sailing in another 10-15 years?

 

There are plenty of people (like me) who prefer smaller ships, and having one or two or even three of these, might draw a certain clientele, who either live in the area, or like to travel to the area and combine a land vaca with a cruise vacation.

If any line is going to cater to those customers, it'll be Holland America. But even they are building bigger ships. The port needs more than that. It'll end up resembling the St. Pete airport if all the big guys pull out. Edited July 2, 2014 by jackinbox

[PhotoPete]

Building bigger ship presents a problem at many ports in the Caribbean. Plus, lots of cruisers prefer small to medium sized ships. I thought the Legend was the perfect size for Tampa.

[FuturzMinion]

Can someone delete this post please?

Edited July 3, 2014 by FuturzMinion

[FuturzMinion]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackinbox.

Do you really think the Inspiration is still going to be sailing in another 10-15 years?

 

Hate to say it, but the Paradise is in Tampa now. She and the Inspiration switched home ports. I expect the Paradise until 2017-2018 out of Tampa

Edited July 3, 2014 by FuturzMinion
Delete please.

[FlaCruiser007]

Sadly, a big part of the problem is also local politics. The Tampa Bay Area does not work/play well together. A new port on the western side would require St Pete, Pinellas County, Hillsborough County and the port authorities to all come together and act together. Sadly, this is very unlikely given the competing interests.

 

For a comparison, look how much in-fighting there is regarding where the Rays play and potential new sites.

 

Even if the sides were to come together, there are still tremendous environmental and logistical obstacles to overcome.

 

That said, hope a solution is found.

 

 

Sent using the Cruise Critic forums app on my Commodore 64

[EZ4]

Sorry Tampa. The ports with the tallest bridges win.

[zephyrhillscruisers]

As a 25 year resident of the Bay Area, and a yearly cruiser for the past ten, I can with a fair amount of certainty share the following predictions:

 

The Skyway Bridge will not be touched. Too expen$ive.

There will be no dredging. Environmentally disruptive.

There will be no new port built West, South, or North of the Skyway. The Four Counties which would be under consideration for location have a long standing tradition of not working together, except in the most dire of circumstances.

 

The four day Booze n Cruise junkets to Cozumel will survive. For an unknown reason, only a handful of Tampa based ships ever have Key West on their itinerary, an area ridiculously difficult and expensive to visit from here. One must fly a United Airlines subsidiary crop duster, and half those flights change in Miami. The other alternative is the express boat that leaves from Fort Myers, a 90 minute drive south. One would think an increase in ships to the Keys would be a smart move, unless the New Breed of Conch Republic(ans) no longer seek cruise tourist dollar$.

 

A fair amount of locals, myself included have less than zero interest on visiting anywhere in Mexico, or the assorted Central American countries where either its often too tough to tender, or the locals (well, the ones who stayed behind and havent yet crossed into Arizona and California) would cut your heart out.

 

Timing is everything, and we've been fortunate enough to hit most every port in the Eastern Caribbean over the past decade. We are tinkering with the idea of having our grown kids and their spouses or signficant others join us on a five day out of Canaveral, but if the prices keep escalating, even by Carnival's lower numbers, we may be landlocked for awhile.

[Ship's Wake]

Tampa better pay attention to prevailing trends in the industry. They may spend a boatload of money for nothing.

 

As Mobile and then Baltimore (for a while) found out.

 

Based on Carnival's record of pulling out of home ports, much thought needs to be put into this.

[jackinbox]

Building bigger ship presents a problem at many ports in the Caribbean.

So far, that's only an issue for RCCL's Oasis and Allure. I'm not aware of any others. There are no issues with any of Carnival's mega-ships. The Dream, Magic and Breeze seem to be able to dock anywhere. NCL's Epic can certainly dock all over the Western Caribbean.

 

Plus, lots of cruisers prefer small to medium sized ships. I thought the Legend was the perfect size for Tampa.

There may be some passengers who prefer that, but ships the size of the Miracle aren't being built anymore. Even Holland America (who has long focused on small ships) has a new ship coming onboard in February of 2016 that most likely is too large for Port Tampa.

 

Here is a quote from HAL CEO Stein Kruse:

 

"It will be a large ship, but still an intimate ship. The bigger you get, the costs come down. We are a premium company and we need to drive a premium yield. We want to balance the benefits of building a bigger ship with the customer experience."

 

When speaking about why Seabourn (which Kruse is also the CEO of) was dumping smaller ships in favor of larger ones:

 

The brand disparity between the smaller ships and the Odyssey class ships was becoming very apparent. We'd have people going from the smaller ships to the larger ones, but not the other way round.”

 

Link

 

I'm sure there were customers who thought the Fantasy Class ships were too big when they were first introduced. Some may have thought the Jubilee was the perfect size. Whether they were right or wrong, those days are long gone. The same will eventually happen with Fantasy and Spirit class. It may be a ways off, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that neither Carnival or RCCL have built a ship small enough for Tampa in the last 10 years. There also isn't a single cruise ship currently on order from Carnival, RCCL, NCL, Princess, or Celebrity that will fit under the Skyway. Good or bad, that is the reality of the situation.

 

Hate to say it, but the Paradise is in Tampa now. She and the Inspiration switched home ports. I expect the Paradise until 2017-2018 out of Tampa.

Right, I forgot about that.

 

Sadly, a big part of the problem is also local politics. The Tampa Bay Area does not work/play well together. A new port on the western side would require St Pete, Pinellas County, Hillsborough County and the port authorities to all come together and act together. Sadly, this is very unlikely given the competing interests.

 

For a comparison, look how much in-fighting there is regarding where the Rays play and potential new sites.

 

Even if the sides were to come together, there are still tremendous environmental and logistical obstacles to overcome.

 

That said, hope a solution is found.

Agreed. I could care less which county owns the land that they put it on, but it needs to be West of the Skyway. Getting into a tug-of-war over bragging rights is only going to ensure that both counties will lose in the long run.

 

The sad thing is there are 4 major cruise lines wanting to keep sailing from the Tampa Bay area and doing nothing is only going to make certain that they will leave.

 

For an unknown reason, only a handful of Tampa based ships ever have Key West on their itinerary, an area ridiculously difficult and expensive to visit from here.

There are a limited number of ships allowed there and many of the residents are fighting to keep any more from coming in. It's been a huge controversy for a few years now.

 

A fair amount of locals, myself included have less than zero interest on visiting anywhere in Mexico, or the assorted Central American countries where either its often too tough to tender, or the locals (well, the ones who stayed behind and havent yet crossed into Arizona and California) would cut your heart out.

Well, that pretty much leaves Grand Cayman as your only port that's reachable from Tampa on a 7-day cruise.

 

We are tinkering with the idea of having our grown kids and their spouses or signficant others join us on a five day out of Canaveral, but if the prices keep escalating, even by Carnival's lower numbers, we may be landlocked for awhile.

I don't expect you're going to see prices continue to be this low in the foreseeable future. I'm finding deals that in many cases are lower than I've seen in years.

[jackinbox]

As Mobile and then Baltimore (for a while) found out.

 

Based on Carnival's record of pulling out of home ports, much thought needs to be put into this.

Mobile is a completely different situation for several reasons.....

 

1. It was too close to New Orleans.

 

2. Very little local population base to build from.

 

Tampa Bay Metro Population: 2,870,569

Mobile, Alabama Metro Population: 414,079

 

3. It was only served by Carnival. Tampa has Carnival, RCCL, NCL and Holland America. This obviously indicates there is a demand for cruises out of the Tampa Bay area. Mobile was a case where demand was never really proven. It was more of an experiment that failed.

[EZ4]

Mobile is a completely different situation for several reasons.....

 

1. It was too close to New Orleans.

 

2. Very little local population base to build from.

 

Tampa Bay Metro Population: 2,870,569

Mobile, Alabama Metro Population: 414,079

 

3. It was only served by Carnival. Tampa has Carnival, RCCL, NCL and Holland America. This obviously indicates there is a demand for cruises out of the Tampa Bay area. Mobile was a case where demand was never really proven. It was more of an experiment that failed.

 

Mobile was a reaction to the post 9-11 fallout with people afraid to fly. It was primarily a drive to port drawing from FL, AL TN and GA. It had about a 7 million population base to draw from. The airport is pitiful though, and once flying came back into favor with the traveling public, Mobile's case as a drive to port was over. Tampa will continue to lose ships as the smaller ones retire and infrastructure beats the hell out of desire.

[Jay Sam]

Mobile was a reaction to the post 9-11 fallout with people afraid to fly. It was primarily a drive to port drawing from FL, AL TN and GA. It had about a 7 million population base to draw from. The airport is pitiful though, and once flying came back into favor with the traveling public, Mobile's case as a drive to port was over. Tampa will continue to lose ships as the smaller ones retire and infrastructure beats the hell out of desire.

 

Yes, this is just the beginning unless we get an alternate plan, if that is even viable. Disappointed we are losing Pride, which is replacing Legend after being here for many years, and used to be year round. And recently, nothing on the books to replace Ryndam in 2015.

 

I have done western Caribbean twice and that is enough, so I am not concerned for cruises for me, as I prefer driving/flying to So FL/San Juan to take an eastern or southern Caribbean anyway. I do like the financial benefits the cruise industry has for the Bay area, at this point anyway, for folks who want a western cruise. 2014 as far as I can see, will be the peak for port of Tampa cruise passenger traffic. Hope I am wrong, but it appears the writing is on the wall.

[Captain Carnival]

...Tampa has Carnival, RCCL, NCL and Holland America. This obviously indicates there is a demand for cruises out of the Tampa Bay area...

 

There will be a solution sometime down the road but which one and when is anyone's best guess but a solution will present itself - sooner than later...I hope!

[jimbo5544]

As Mobile and then Baltimore (for a while) found out.

 

Based on Carnival's record of pulling out of home ports, much thought needs to be put into this.

 

 

Baltimore was for an entirely different reason.

 

 

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[EZ4]

Baltimore was for an entirely different reason.

 

 

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The point is valid though. Be careful trusting Carnival.