Panama V Nicaragua

[Richard in Panama]

No. Not soccer! But by 2020 you may have another choice in Canal cruises. I addition to the Panama Canal, Suez Canal [long, long day of nothing but sand!], you can choose a cruise on the Nicaragua Canal ... or so Nicaragua, China, and Russia hope.

 

The Nicaraguan government has approved Nicaraguan committee approved a proposed route for a $40 billion channel across the country that would compete with the Panama Canal. The 172 mile (278 km) route runs from the mouth of the Brito river on the Pacific side to the Punto Gorda river on the Caribbean. The proposed canal would pass through Lake Nicaragua, Central America’s largest lake, and will be between 230 metres and 520 metres (755 feet to 1,706 feet) wide and 27.6 metres (90 feet) deep. The proposed canal would be completed in 2019 and begin operations in 2020.

 

Financed by the Chinese, with Russian participation, the Canal would be a boon to the economy of Nicaragua, one of the poorest countries in the region.

 

The proposed channel would be more than three times longer than the 48-mile (77-km) Panama Canal. Panama believes that there is enough demand for both waterways, if the Nicaragua Canal becomes reality. The Canal de Panama has already begun plans to enlarge the new expanded lock facilities which won't open until late 2015. But the new giant class of ships won't even fit through those even larger locks. Maersk, builder and operator of the new gargantuan container ships has already committed to use the Nicaraguan Canal.

 

But the*proposed route still faces environmental and social impact studies, Many believe that without some lockage system, the Nicaragua canal could become an environmental disaster. *Within Nicaragua there is concern*about the canal’s effect on Lake Nicaragua, an important fresh water source for the country, as well as the impact on poor communities.

[BillB48]

I had just read a similar report and have been trying to understand the implication of no mention whatsoever of any lock system. Find a little hard to believe they would cut through the Lake Nicaragua and sacrifice that huge body of water. I suppose if they were not going to use locks they could construct a dam on the lower end to preserve the majority of the lake. The dimensions quoted seem very ambitious for any canal, let alone one as long as the proposed Nicaraguan route... and the proposed completion date? Possible that it date could be a misprint, but the fact that they have not essentially turned the first shovel of dirt, makes me a wee bit skeptical. No so much skeptical that the project isn't a possibility, just the time frame as well as the economic viability of the canal. Then again China and Russia really don't need the profit motive to move ahead... just think of the fun they could have playing in Uncle Sam's back yard!

Edited July 9, 2014 by BillB48

[BillB48]

 

The proposed channel would be more than three times longer than the 48-mile (77-km) Panama Canal. Panama believes that there is enough demand for both waterways, if the Nicaragua Canal becomes reality. The Canal de Panama has already begun plans to enlarge the new expanded lock facilities which won't open until late 2015. But the new giant class of ships won't even fit through those even larger locks. Maersk, builder and operator of the new gargantuan container ships has already committed to use the Nicaraguan Canal.

 

 

 

I attended a luncheon this past weekend where the guest speaker was the Panama Canal Administrator Jorge Quijano, he did speak to the huge Maersk Triple E container ships and they not being a Canal customer. While admitting that these large ships would play a role in world commerce, the Canal's thinking was there would not a huge influx of these type ships in the overall mix of ships. The Canal expansion will be able to accommodate container vessels up to 13,000 teu (twenty foot equivalent units), while the current locks are handling 4000 teu ships. The 13,000 teu ships are thought to be more of the "target" size for the Canal to go after where the Triple E ships (18,000 teu) are going to be more for a limited market. The problem with the Trip E ships is not only more specialized port equipment, thereby not as many ports that can accept them, but the port turn around time is much longer than the container ships that are under the 13,000 teu size.

 

He also spoke about expanding the Pacific side's container facilities into the former US Army's area of Corozal. He said the Canal Authority has already purchased the land that lies west of the railroad all the way to the Canal.

 

Great times for Canal watchers!!

[BridgeMates]

We were at the luncheon too (Panama Canal Society). Quijano gave a most informative speech about all their future plans in addition to the locks expansion. They are making a ton of money from the increased tolls and reinvesting in the Canal. I was really surprised to see the tremendous amount of revenue from containers alone. When we were there, I seem to remember all of those sky-high stacks of containers on deck went thru free. They charge for everything now, which is the way it should have been all along. The U.S. had a very difficult time getting any tolls increase thru Congress. The Panamanians don't have to worry about that! They're doing a great job. You may remember someone asked a question about the Nicaragua canal. He sort of brushed over it. Hard for me to believe they will be a threat to the Panama Canal anytime soon.

Thanks again for keeping us up-to-date on the Canal and Panama. Sorry I didn't get to meet you.

[BillB48]

Yes, the reunion turned into a blur... so many people so little time! Was able to connect with many of them... it was great. I would really love to know what the honest feeling about Nicaragua is as well, I'm sure they are casting a very wary eye in their direction.

 

Even though we did not meet... until next time:).

[Richard in Panama]

It's not just that we have a Canal ... but gigantic ports at both ends, and more on the way, the second largest free zone in the world, the hub airport for the Americas, and are becoming the logistic center for the Americas. Even if Nicaragua gets its canal, it will be a long time before it has a competitive infrastructure. Nicaragua sees this as an opportunity to move into the 21st century increasing GDP, average per capita incomes, etc. However, their canal, as long as it's just a canal, is only going to let these mega ships pass through. Sure, they'll get tolls, but it's not just the Panama Canal tolls that are driving the economy, but the entire infrastructure and all the additional revenue directly and indirectly generated because of the Canal.

 

Regards, Richard

Edited July 10, 2014 by Richard in Panama

[Richard in Panama]

We were at the luncheon too (Panama Canal Society).

 

BridgeMates and Bill, It might help many of the readers of this board, most of whom are just planning a Canal cruise (possibly their first), if you guys explained a little about the Panama Canal Society, who you are, were, what it's about, and how you had the clout to get the second, if not the most important person in Panama to speak at lunch. Regards, Richard

Edited July 10, 2014 by Richard in Panama

[BillB48]

BridgeMates and Bill, It might help many of the readers of this board, most of whom are just planning a Canal cruise (possibly their first), if you guys explained a little about the Panama Canal Society, who you are, were, what it's about, and how you had the clout to get the second, if not the most important person in Panama to speak at lunch. Regards, Richard

 

 

Hi Richard, first the Panama Canal Society Inc. is a non profit corporation that was founded back in 1932. The main purpose for the Society is to maintain the friendships that arose from those who worked on the Panama Canal. Worked on the Panama Canal includes just about anyone who has a connection to the Canal such as military personnel that served Panama, Canal and Military dependents that went school in Panama. The membership made of mostly people who no longer live in Panama, probably the majority are in the US and a significant part of those are somewhere in Florida. During the year various smaller regional events are held such as picnics, luncheons and a dance here and there. For about the last 15 years an annual get together has been held in Orlando around the 4th of July that is attended by around 3000 folks or so.

 

As far as this Society being anything of interest for someone planning a Canal cruise, I don't believe it would be what they are looking for. Picture the Society as a huge class reunion, most of the Society's activities are around keeping the social links alive. Much of what goes on does not involve the Canal directly, but we do gather around with great interest when someone like Jorge Quijano is going to speak. The Canal is the glue that provides the common bond and keeps us together.

 

If anyone is interested in the Panama Canal Society here's their web site;

http://www.pancanalsociety.org/

 

Another site that could possibly be of interest is the George Smathers Libraries of the University of Florida is becoming the home of a great deal of memorabilia from the Canal. Again this probably only has limited appeal to a Canal cruiser, more for the deep history buff or Canal gear head... but here is their web site; http://ufdc.ufl.edu/pcm

 

 

As to how the PC Society landed someone as notable as the Administrator... a little background. Jorge Quijano came to Gatun Locks in the mid 70s from a refinery in Panama as a very junior industrial engineer/manager. This was very much a worker bee position where the management, technical and operational parts of things came together. He was a quick study and a no nonsense guy, as result he had a steady progression to higher positions. By the early 90s he was Chief of the Locks Division which was a very senior management position on the Canal. By the end of the 90s he was promoted to Director of Maritime Operations, this job probably is the highest non political job on the Canal. During his tenure with the US Canal administration in the various capacities he no doubt was more than just a co worker and had a number of friendships. Many of the people he worked for, worked with and later supervised are members of the Panama Canal Society. I am sure someone of the Society's leaders just made a simple request to have him address the annual gathering.

Edited July 11, 2014 by BillB48

[BridgeMates]

 

Another site that could possibly be of interest is the George Smathers Libraries of the University of Florida is becoming the home of a great deal of memorabilia from the Canal. Again this probably only has limited appeal to a Canal cruiser, more for the deep history buff or Canal gear head... but here is their web site; http://ufdc.ufl.edu/pcm

 

 

If you live near Gainesville, Florida and are even thinking about a Canal trip, I think you'd find the exhibitions at the Univ of Florida quite interesting and good background for your trip. The dates are August 15-17th and it's all free. Check out the website. Even if you can't attend the celebration you can get a ton of information about this wonderful piece of history and U.S. accomplishment.

[PCWalton1]

Gentlemen,

Fascinating information on the canal. Thank you for posting.

[BillB48]

If you live near Gainesville, Florida and are even thinking about a Canal trip, I think you'd find the exhibitions at the Univ of Florida quite interesting and good background for your trip. The dates are August 15-17th and it's all free. Check out the website. Even if you can't attend the celebration you can get a ton of information about this wonderful piece of history and U.S. accomplishment.

 

We are about 2 hrs. from Gainesville and there are a few people from this area considering going up to take part in the festivities... don't know if we will be able to join them as yet.

[BillB48]

Here is a little more on the Nicaraguan Canal proposal from the Atlanta Journal Constitution... first link is a 2 minute video with accompanying write up and the second link is a recent article from the the July 9 edition of the paper. Little more info, but not much on the details. In the first link they discuss that Russia will be providing security... I guess then there is nothing to worry about;):rolleyes:!

 

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/world/40b-nicaragua-canal-would-be-3x-bigger-panama-cana/ngb4P/

 

http://digital.olivesoftware.com/Olive/ODE/AtlantaJournalConstitution/LandingPage/LandingPage.aspx?href=QUpDLzIwMTQvMDcvMTA.&pageno=OQ..&entity=QXIwMDkwMg..&view=ZW50aXR5