Freedom of the Seas drydock

[reesser]

The ship can easily make it from Cozumel to Port Canaveral with a full day at sea.

 

They missed it the last time on the trip prior to our Eastern Caribbean. They arrived at Port Canaveral at 8:30 AM.

Bob E

[Cavy92]

Wow, I stop following this thread for two days, and boom.

 

 

 

Lets look at this situation from a marine engineer's perspective.

 

 

 

First, to say that RCI hurried the repair to the fixipod caused the new problem is purely speculative. Unless you happen to know that the pod was not completed until just before flooding the dock, I would say that "rushing" was not the problem. Generally, the limiting factor on drydock length is the time needed to clean, scrape, prime, paint, and allow the bottom paint to cure before you immerse it in water. Most times underwater mechanical work is scheduled and completed a couple of days before the end of a drydocking, to allow the paint crew to paint the things like pods that have had machinists crawling all over them for the majority of the docking.

 

 

 

Since there was a repair to the propulsion system, the classification society and flag state would require a sea trial, and this was obviously accomplished with the pod working as designed. This was of course always in the schedule, so the 2 night cruise did not affect a sea trial.

 

 

 

Going back to Freeport instead of doing the two day cruise just wouldn't work. Opening a pod to repair will require at least 7 days (including docking, pumping the dock, repairs, pumping dock, undocking) as was shown for the Allure (10 days if I remember, to do her pods, though that required the cofferdams in the dock). Even just removing the propeller from the pod requires oxy-acetylene cutting of the rope guard, and rewelding the guard back in place when done.

 

 

 

It sounds like, to me (professional guessing) that some insulation on the wires for the pod's motor was damaged during the repair. Sometimes this is not obvious, and can take a few days of operation (current flowing through the wire) before there is an alarm on the insulation. From the info that Barklee posted, this sounds just about exactly what happened. Some time on the first revenue cruise (maybe 75 hours after leaving the yard), the problem cropped up.

 

 

 

If the Chief is pretty confident about fixing the pod internally (to the point that he would say so to a passenger, which could come back and bite him badly if the company didn't feel the same), I'd go along with him. The motor in the pods is a 10,000v motor, and any cabling or wiring needed to repair, along with terminals, lugs, and all the "hardware" of the job, is not what is normally stocked onboard. It may take a couple weeks to get the materials to catch up with the ship, and then as noted, you can only work on the pod when in port, so this slows the repair drastically since you have to start work, and then before getting underway, you have to secure everything and clean up so that the freewheeling shaft doesn't tear up anything. Then next port, you unsecure things again and start working. You lose about 50% of the available repair time having to open and close stuff every day.

 

 

 

As someone said, the fixipod affects speed but not steering or maneuverability since it does not rotate and therefore is not part of steering.

 

 

 

I will keep subscribed here for the next few weeks or until the pod is repaired, just to answer anything anyone wants to know.

 

 

chengkp75, thank you for taking the time to properly explain while demonstrating your professional expertise and technological knowledge.

Unfortunately too often people ass-ume or "heard" information, which results in ridiculous insinuations regarding something that no one has a clue about; hence how rumors on here get started.

 

Not being rude, but honest.

 

Thankful for experts in fields. Thank you chengkp75! Sincerely.

 

 

Hello! My name is Kevin.

Edited February 4, 2015 by Cavy92

[ckrobyn]

Wow, I stop following this thread for two days, and boom.

 

Lets look at this situation from a marine engineer's perspective.

 

First, to say that RCI hurried the repair to the fixipod caused the new problem is purely speculative. Unless you happen to know that the pod was not completed until just before flooding the dock, I would say that "rushing" was not the problem. Generally, the limiting factor on drydock length is the time needed to clean, scrape, prime, paint, and allow the bottom paint to cure before you immerse it in water. Most times underwater mechanical work is scheduled and completed a couple of days before the end of a drydocking, to allow the paint crew to paint the things like pods that have had machinists crawling all over them for the majority of the docking.

 

Since there was a repair to the propulsion system, the classification society and flag state would require a sea trial, and this was obviously accomplished with the pod working as designed. This was of course always in the schedule, so the 2 night cruise did not affect a sea trial.

 

Going back to Freeport instead of doing the two day cruise just wouldn't work. Opening a pod to repair will require at least 7 days (including docking, pumping the dock, repairs, pumping dock, undocking) as was shown for the Allure (10 days if I remember, to do her pods, though that required the cofferdams in the dock). Even just removing the propeller from the pod requires oxy-acetylene cutting of the rope guard, and rewelding the guard back in place when done.

 

It sounds like, to me (professional guessing) that some insulation on the wires for the pod's motor was damaged during the repair. Sometimes this is not obvious, and can take a few days of operation (current flowing through the wire) before there is an alarm on the insulation. From the info that Barklee posted, this sounds just about exactly what happened. Some time on the first revenue cruise (maybe 75 hours after leaving the yard), the problem cropped up.

 

If the Chief is pretty confident about fixing the pod internally (to the point that he would say so to a passenger, which could come back and bite him badly if the company didn't feel the same), I'd go along with him. The motor in the pods is a 10,000v motor, and any cabling or wiring needed to repair, along with terminals, lugs, and all the "hardware" of the job, is not what is normally stocked onboard. It may take a couple weeks to get the materials to catch up with the ship, and then as noted, you can only work on the pod when in port, so this slows the repair drastically since you have to start work, and then before getting underway, you have to secure everything and clean up so that the freewheeling shaft doesn't tear up anything. Then next port, you unsecure things again and start working. You lose about 50% of the available repair time having to open and close stuff every day.

 

As someone said, the fixipod affects speed but not steering or maneuverability since it does not rotate and therefore is not part of steering.

 

I will keep subscribed here for the next few weeks or until the pod is repaired, just to answer anything anyone wants to know.

 

Thank you for taking the time to respond in a manner that makes perfect sense to a layperson who knows zero about marine engineering. :o

[Cavy92]

chengkp75,

 

Here is a picture taken off the stern of FOS 3 hrs ago.

 

What do you think? 2 or 3?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hello! My name is Kevin.

[ckrobyn]

chengkp75,

 

Here is a picture taken off the stern of FOS 3 hrs ago.

 

What do you think? 2 or 3?

 

[ATTACH]339070[/ATTACH]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hello! My name is Kevin.

 

Looks like 3 to me :)

[Ken at the beach]

Sorry to disagree, but this route was quickly coddled together after the fixipod went kaput, because it cut ~200NM off of the route and allowed them to still do their three high revenue ports more or less as scheduled. While I hate to admit that RCL ever thinks ahead or plans anything, in this instance their decision to keep the shortened and modified route after the dry dock, was either dumb luck, or a rare stroke of prescience on their part.

 

IMO, if they had reverted to their normal Western route (on 2/1 instead of holding of until the 2/15 sailing), they would have ended up modifying it to this one once the trouble re-surfaced.

 

This route stopping at Coco Cay has been in place since at least June 2014. Here is a link to the roll call where you can see people asking questions about Coco Cay in June.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2007974&page=2

[chengkp75]

chengkp75,

 

Here is a picture taken off the stern of FOS 3 hrs ago.

 

What do you think? 2 or 3?

 

[ATTACH]339070[/ATTACH]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hello! My name is Kevin.

 

Hard to say, I'm not tech savvy enough to enlarge it.

[Cavy92]

Hard to say, I'm not tech savvy enough to enlarge it.

 

 

I enlarged it.

 

 

 

Hello! My name is Kevin.

[chengkp75]

So from what you're saying it sounds as though you think it'll take longer than 30 days to fix the issue. Do you think this estimate is accurate? We are on the Mar 1 cruise, so we're very nervous and even 30 days would be cutting it quite close...

 

 

 

Sent from my iPod touch using Forums

 

It's hard to say, since I don't know exactly what is damaged. 30 days should be doable, depending on how available parts are. They will probably have 3-4 ABB technicians onboard (so some cabins taken out of inventory, sorry if anyone is cancelled) to accomplish this as quickly as possible.

 

I'm not up on Freedom's itineraries, so I can't say how this will affect them, so I don't know how this might affect your cruise. They should have ABB onboard by now, and the game plan should be in place, and they will know by now whether or not the pod needs docking or not. Given that the ship was just docked, and that she could make itineraries that might not be optimum but that are close to planned, they may wait a while before docking to repair. The docks in Freeport are pretty well booked solid. My ship had to book about 6-8 months in advance to get a slot.

[Cavy92]

Thanks!

 

 

Hello! My name is Kevin.

[ckrobyn]

It's hard to say, since I don't know exactly what is damaged. 30 days should be doable, depending on how available parts are. They will probably have 3-4 ABB technicians onboard (so some cabins taken out of inventory, sorry if anyone is cancelled) to accomplish this as quickly as possible.

 

I'm not up on Freedom's itineraries, so I can't say how this will affect them, so I don't know how this might affect your cruise. They should have ABB onboard by now, and the game plan should be in place, and they will know by now whether or not the pod needs docking or not. Given that the ship was just docked, and that she could make itineraries that might not be optimum but that are close to planned, they may wait a while before docking to repair. The docks in Freeport are pretty well booked solid. My ship had to book about 6-8 months in advance to get a slot.

 

I am on the Feb 15th western itinerary = Labadee, Cozumel, Grand Cayman and Falmouth, Jamaica (not in order?). Do you think we can hit each port based on what you know at this time?

[wilmingtech]

Sorry to disagree, but this route was quickly coddled together after the fixipod went kaput, because it cut ~200NM off of the route and allowed them to still do their three high revenue ports more or less as scheduled. While I hate to admit that RCL ever thinks ahead or plans anything, in this instance their decision to keep the shortened and modified route after the dry dock, was either dumb luck, or a rare stroke of prescience on their part.

 

IMO, if they had reverted to their normal Western route (on 2/1 instead of holding of until the 2/15 sailing), they would have ended up modifying it to this one once the trouble re-surfaced.

You can disagree all you want but we were looking at cruises last October and this was the original Itinerary. It certainly wasn't coddled.

[chengkp75]

I am on the Feb 15th western itinerary = Labadee, Cozumel, Grand Cayman and Falmouth, Jamaica (not in order?). Do you think we can hit each port based on what you know at this time?

 

I would need to know the order of ports, and the scheduled arrival and departure times. If you go to sea-distances.org, you can find the distances between most major ports (sometimes I need to guesstimate for a cruise port since this is for cargo ships), and given the amount of time they schedule between ports, you can figure the speed required, or given the ship's top speed on two pods, you can figure the time to get between ports.

[ckrobyn]

I would need to know the order of ports, and the scheduled arrival and departure times. If you go to sea-distances.org, you can find the distances between most major ports (sometimes I need to guesstimate for a cruise port since this is for cargo ships), and given the amount of time they schedule between ports, you can figure the speed required, or given the ship's top speed on two pods, you can figure the time to get between ports.

 

Day Port *** Arrive Depart Activity

 

15-Feb Port Canaveral, Florida 4:30 PM

 

16-Feb Cruising

 

17-Feb Labadee, Haiti 8:00 AM 4:00 PM Docked

 

18-Feb Falmouth, Jamaica 10:00 AM 7:00 PM Docked

 

19-Feb George Town, Grand Cayman 8:00 AM 4:00 PM Tendered

 

20-Feb Cozumel, Mexico 10:00 AM 7:00 PM Docked

 

21-Feb Cruising

 

22-Feb Port Canaveral, Florida 6:00 AM

 

Help??? :)

[chengkp75]

Day Port *** Arrive Depart Activity

 

15-Feb Port Canaveral, Florida 4:30 PM

 

16-Feb Cruising

 

17-Feb Labadee, Haiti 8:00 AM 4:00 PM Docked

 

18-Feb Falmouth, Jamaica 10:00 AM 7:00 PM Docked

 

19-Feb George Town, Grand Cayman 8:00 AM 4:00 PM Tendered

 

20-Feb Cozumel, Mexico 10:00 AM 7:00 PM Docked

 

21-Feb Cruising

 

22-Feb Port Canaveral, Florida 6:00 AM

 

Help??? :)

 

Most of those appear to require 21 knots, so that requires all 3 pods in service.

[ckrobyn]

Most of those appear to require 21 knots, so that requires all 3 pods in service.

 

Thanks - I was expecting that answer......now I am expecting an altered itinerary :rolleyes: Oh well, as long as I am on the ship floating somewhere in the Caribbean, it's all good - the ship will be my destination!

[torpeedo]

Most of those appear to require 21 knots, so that requires all 3 pods in service.

 

That's exactly right. That's why every cruise in Dec did not make their ports on time or were missed.

[kruzerci]

So from what you're saying it sounds as though you think it'll take longer than 30 days to fix the issue. Do you think this estimate is accurate? We are on the Mar 1 cruise, so we're very nervous and even 30 days would be cutting it quite close...

 

 

 

Sent from my iPod touch using Forums

 

That'll give them time to add another deck of cabins or so, too! :eek:

[counsdr]

Or maybe it will all work out and we will all cruise happily ever after!!!!

 

Cheryl

[queenschick9b]

Does anyone have any idea when they would make a decision re: going out on Sunday? Does anyone think they would cancel my entire cruise?

I would want to be able to make other plans if the worst was to happen.

 

As I said before I am happy to just be at sea for 7 days, but this uncertainty is now stressing me out. As you can see I am an anxious person (that is why I needed vacation).

Edited February 4, 2015 by queenschick9b

[chengkp75]

Does anyone have any idea when they would make a decision re: going out on Sunday? Does anyone think they would cancel my entire cruise?

I would want to be able to make other plans if the worst was to happen.

 

As I said before I am happy to just be at sea for 7 days, but this uncertainty is now stressing me out. As you can see I am an anxious person (that is why I needed vacation).

 

I've been wrong before, but I would say that there is almost no chance that they would cancel this weeks cruise. I doubt they will cancel any cruise for the next few months for this problem.

[queenschick9b]

I admit that just hearing that makes me feel a million times better :)

[torpeedo]

Does anyone have any idea when they would make a decision re: going out on Sunday? Does anyone think they would cancel my entire cruise?

I would want to be able to make other plans if the worst was to happen.

 

As I said before I am happy to just be at sea for 7 days, but this uncertainty is now stressing me out. As you can see I am an anxious person (that is why I needed vacation).

 

They will never tell you until you are on board with no other options and they have all your money. I seriously doubt they would cancel your cruise for money reasons. I am calling tomorrow to discuss a full refund.

[ckrobyn]

Realistically, any of us sailing in the next few weeks (or months) can expect either altered itineraries and/or shortened port times.....

[ryano]

Thanks - I was expecting that answer......now I am expecting an altered itinerary :rolleyes: Oh well, as long as I am on the ship floating somewhere in the Caribbean, it's all good - the ship will be my destination!

 

I agree 100% Robyn :) My ONLY worry is a total cancellation. With my accessibility needs its not like I can just swap to Allure or other ship at the last minute.

 

Getting vacations lined up again so my friends could still go would be impossible!

 

Cruise credit or no cruise credit, I don't care where we go as long as we still go!