More Reasons to Save Cunard Traditions

[Lepine]

Cunard has always run its ships with the highest of standards. I was shocked to hear the testimony of one attorney who has specialized in cruise line for years. According to him, crime is very common on many cruise lines, and quite often committed by crew members.

 

The thing is, cruise lines have a policy of telling their staff to never tell anyone anything, or lose their jobs. So we don't hear about crime.

 

With regard to the missing newlywed, he was obviously murdered, as there was blood everywhere (one passenger took a photo of the deck with a large patch of blood on it). Some passengers saw crew members taking the couple to their cabin that night. This lawyer believes the crew members put "date rape" drugs in their drinks, brought them to their cabins, molested her, and when the husband woke up unexpectedly, killed him and threw him overboard.

 

He says this has happened a number of times on cruise ships, at least the "date rape" part of it, and is unfortunately quite common.

 

How has the cruise ship reacted? By putting out "disinformation", such as the untruth that the wife was in the gym that next morning (she was in fact passed out cold), to make her look guilty and shift the responsibility away from their company.

 

Now, I've experienced this don't tell policy when trying to reason with Cunard, whose mantra seems to be "it's a business decision", no matter what you say.

 

However, as I've said, the standards onboard ship have always been high. I've never seen any significant problems with crew towards passengers.

 

On the other hand, more recently, on QE2, there was a reported rape of one crew member by another. And on a QM2 crossing, there was some "incident" involving crew and passengers which required crew to meet for a "retraining session". I don't know what that incident was, but I have occasionally seen crew members ogling attractive young female passengers somewhat, something that never would have been acceptable on Cunard ships a few years ago (granted, there have not usually huge numbers of attractive and very young females on QE2, but there were some).

 

I think I first started noticing the changes to the Cunard ships when they were playing "where you from, you sexy thing?" very loud in the Lido Restaurant during tea, and the crew had a kind of slap-dash manner in the way they were doing things.

[mufi]

Lepine - I may be - probably am - a bit slow on the uptake, but I don't have any idea of what you are on about. If you are refering to an alledged murder, could you give some references to where I can read more.

 

It would seem to be a very serious matter if murder can happen aboard a ship and for it not to be investigated.

 

Incidently it's called "I believe in miracles" (Hot Chocolate) quite a catchy little tune that would have been quite acceptable on any Cunard ship past or present.

 

David.

[Lepine]

Lepine - I may be - probably am - a bit slow on the uptake, but I don't have any idea of what you are on about. If you are refering to an alledged murder, could you give some references to where I can read more.

 

It would seem to be a very serious matter if murder can happen aboard a ship and for it not to be investigated.

 

Incidently it's called "I believe in miracles" (Hot Chocolate) quite a catchy little tune that would have been quite acceptable on any Cunard ship past or present.

 

David.

 

Do I detect a slightly impolite tone? I don't believe I have been disrespectful of anyone on this board, nor do I expect anything less than that myself. You have no idea who I am, and I have said nothing that would possibly allow you to take a patronizing attitude toward me. Thank you.

 

This disappearance, and likely murder, of a newlywed from a cruise ship is on all the news networks, in the US at least.

 

And of course it is being investigated. It's just that the cruise line is not very good at cooperating.

 

And if you listen to "I Believe in Miracles" it is a very sexual, and somewhat tacky song, especially when loud. It is hardly up to the dignified level of QE2.

[dtwtraveler]

Do I detect a slightly impolite tone? I don't believe I have been disrespectful of anyone on this board, nor do I expect anything less than that myself. You have no idea who I am, and I have said nothing that would possibly allow you to take a patronizing attitude toward me. Thank you.

 

This disappearance, and likely murder, of a newlywed from a cruise ship is on all the news networks, in the US at least.

 

And of course it is being investigated. It's just that the cruise line is not very good at cooperating.

 

And if you listen to "I Believe in Miracles" it is a very sexual, and somewhat tacky song, especially when loud. It is hardly up to the dignified level of QE2.

 

I think that it should be mentioned that the murder on a cruise ship was NOT on a Cunard ship.

[guernseyguy]

Do I detect a slightly impolite tone?

 

Lepine, I think you were politely asked for a lead to the case involved, which you have declined to provide. You are extrapolating from the unspecified to the specific, which, without the information, helps no one.

 

Peter

[stephen@stoneyard.co.uk]

> This disappearance, and likely murder, of a newlywed from a cruise ship is on all the news networks, in the US at least.

 

Devestating for the families and friends of the couple. I had not heard this news in the UK.

 

> I think that it should be mentioned that the murder on a cruise ship was NOT on a Cunard ship.

 

I am glad to hear that at least.

 

> seen crew members ogling attractive young female passengers somewhat,

 

I think that sort of thing has always gone on and not just on ships.

 

> "I Believe in Miracles" it is a very sexual, and somewhat tacky song, especially when loud. It is hardly up to the dignified level of QE2

 

We are talking about the Lido not the Dinning Rooms or Grills

 

Best wishes, Stephen.

[KenC]

Do I detect a slightly impolite tone? I don't believe I have been disrespectful of anyone on this board, nor do I expect anything less than that myself. You have no idea who I am, and I have said nothing that would possibly allow you to take a patronizing attitude toward me. Thank you. .

 

Get a grip - David (Mufi) is one of the most respectful posters on CC.

 

This disappearance, and likely murder, of a newlywed from a cruise ship is on all the news networks, in the US at least. .......And of course it is being investigated. It's just that the cruise line is not very good at cooperating..

 

Get your facts straight - No one from the UK has a clue what you are talking about. This hasn't even made the back pages of the tabloids!!!

 

And if you listen to "I Believe in Miracles" it is a very sexual, and somewhat tacky song, especially when loud. It is hardly up to the dignified level of QE2.

 

Get a life - this song is nearly as old as the ship!!! AND I'm sure they even played all the latest ragtime songs on board the 'dignified' Queen Mary in the good old days.

 

Respectfully

 

Ken

[GrisouandMinoushuman]

I've heard about that recent case, re: the disapearance of George Smith IV; it is talked a lot about on MSNBC, sp. on the 10PM (EST) show "Scarborogh Country". On that show they started to investigate this case and have broken plenty of "exclusives". But the 1st time that I've heard about it was on CNN's "Larry King Live", it was the 2nd segment of said show after the 1st seg. which was about the Aruba dis. of N.Holloway. The show was in mid-July, I think.

 

On that show's panel there was a maritime attorney who says that cases such as the Smith dis. is frequent on cruise ships, that yes secrecy is often involved due to various reasons like different jurisdictions, that most of the times in cases like this cruise lines will employ "disinformation" as to keep things hush- hush, and that staff and crew onboard are required litteraly to "keep their pieholes shut", otherwise they could be sent home on a permanent vacation...Add to this the fact that there are people from all over the world (often) on these ships, that (some) of these staff members are notoriously underpaid (often under minimum wages), 'cuz most of these cruises have what's called "convenience flags" where the country of port of origin's laws re: sex crimes and such are notoriously flawed, and most of the crew didn't get a background check, so that's a recipe for disaster. (I'm not talking about all cruise ships and lines, I'm sure that there are alot of companies that do try to minimize incidents-not only the reports of them-but it is scary)

 

Another maritime lawyer on "Scarborough Country" last friday said that it seemed like it is litterally "open season on the High Seas", sp. re: petty crimes like thievery, pickpockets and more serious ones like sexual assaults and, sometimes, abductions and/or murders...

 

I don't remember on what ship Smith disappeared from? It seems like they were on their honeymoon and that the port he was last seen at was in Turkey. The case is now in the hands of the FBI, after the Turks tried to investigate; Turkey was getting frustrated by the apparent lack of help from the cruise line and the employees who were on board on that night. Since the 1st 48 hrs are so crucial in a crime investigation, the whole thing was bungled right from the start apparently. Passengers got off, the ship sent out press release at 1st saying that it could have been a suicide (on a honeymoon?don't think so!) and that the bride was at the gym in the morning after the (alleged) crime when it was later learned that in fact she was passed out somewhere, maybe from too much booze (there are rumours of them drinking Absynthe, a very potent-and illegal in N-America, liquor) and possibly her being slipped a roofie in her drink...

 

That case sort of reminds me of Amy Bradley's vanishing; she was from VA on a Carribean (I think?) cruise in the mid-90's w/her family. She vanished one night after going to the ship's disco w/her brother and then poof! she was gone. No trace since; the cruise line (don't know which in that case either) again alleged that it could've been a suicide or a dumb accident of her own making. Like most other similar cases, her parents have said that she had no suicidal tend. nor was she the type of doing reckless things...A guy was spotted following her on the ship a few times; there was a composite made of him. I saw that case a few times on "Unsolved Mysteries" and "America's Most Wanted".

 

Oh, and about the "I believe in miracles..." song, nothing there!! It's got sexual innuendos for sure, but it's nothing compared to some rappers or R'N'B songs of today!! And it's bizarre about the "sex" obsession-by-proxy, when there is a nanosecond of a boob everyone panics, but no one bats an eye when someone (usually a woman) gets blown off to shreds by a shotgun in a movie on primetime hrs on TV...And the song was in a lounge, not in the main formal dining area. I tend to be mindful of traditions myself, never went on a cruise yet (but wanna go on QM2 one day, for my 1st try-the Transatlantic) because I'd like to see some of the older types of traditions. I wouldn't care if that song played, frankly. And the "ogling" is pretty much typical, although I admit that on a QE2 or QM2 ship I'd expect the crew to behave in a gentlemanly manner, or at least if they ogle to do it discreetly...It's not on a construction site!!!

[guernseyguy]

This sad story is covered in tedious length over on the RCI board.....

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=204223

 

......where it best remain, in my view.

 

Peter

[GrisouandMinoushuman]

Cool, thanks!

 

It's my 1st time on the board and I had only perused the Cunard board, it being the 1st ship I'd like to try eventually (I'm not too keen on trying a Caribean or Meditaranean cruise for my 1st time, I wanna try the Canada/New England QM2 thingy first).

 

I replied to that message because I knew that it didn't imply a Cunard ship (the Smith case) and because of the complaint re: the "miracle" song.

 

Ciao!

[Lepine]

Sorry I didn't specify more clearly that it didn't happen on a Cunard ship. Such is life in the US, that we can forget all the chatter on news channels about a topic may be completely unknown elsewhere.

 

To some posters, like Ken, who have a "certain manner" of expressing themselves, perhaps if they knew I was a lady, they would be more "careful"... and tactful.

 

As for that song, it's fine in any ordinary setting, but just not dignified enough for QE2 at tea time, especially when almost all of the passengers are senior citizens (duh). This seems like common sense to me. In the G32 nightclub on QM2, it's perfectly fine.

[guernseyguy]

perhaps if they knew I was a lady, they would be more "careful"... and tactful. As for that song, it's fine in any ordinary setting, but just not dignified enough for QE2 at tea time, especially when almost all of the passengers are senior citizens (duh). This seems like common sense to me. In the G32 nightclub on QM2, it's perfectly fine.

 

A propos of nothing in particular I am reminded of an old New York Union Boss who summed up 'power' as - 'Being powerful is like being a lady - if you have to tell people you are, you aint'..

 

....and as for the 'senior citzens' taking tea, many of them will have been in their thirties when the Hot Chocolate song was first aired....perhaps they like it? You don't think making sweeping generalisations about senior citizens patronising?

 

In which etiquette book is 'duh' described as 'lady like'?

 

All posters on the board, ladies and gentlemen should be treated with respect.

 

Peter

[MollyBrown]

I don't know what is going on here, but I am surprised at this board. Up until now it has always been very polite and civilized.

 

You may not agree with what another poster says, but I don't understand all this hostility and impolite behavior.

 

I agree with some of the things this poster has says. But if I disagree, I'm not going to insult her. When did this board become "Lord of the Flies"?

[dtwtraveler]

:) I think that it would be refreshing if "Lepine" would publish one posting that only expressed positive and uplifting comments about cruising and Cunard!

[Host Caroline]

::sigh::: the lurking host again.. most of you are civil and respectful all of the time on this board and if you're not "completely" civil, you have such a refined way of discoursing. I really don't see where all these "news stories" have to do with Cunard tradition myself. Crime really knows no economic boundaries.

So are we back to Cunard tradition now???

[PRINSENDAM]

: I really don't see where all these "news stories" have to do with Cunard tradition myself. Crime really knows no economic boundaries.

 

So are we back to Cunard tradition now???

 

 

Caroline,

 

Exactly!

 

There are bad apples in every barrel but I'd wager that there is far less crime on board ship than in any small town of 2000 people. Heck, hasn't anyone been watching "Desperate Housewives?

 

Yes, incidents do happen from time to time, but the cruise industry is not a haven for thieves, murderers & rapists. Yes, cruise lines do make an attempt to prevent adverse news from reaching the public... and business would do that. On board, crew members are discouraged from discusing the ship's business with every passenger that happens to walk by. Why? Because it is none of the passenger's business. Purchase of a cruise ticket doesn't automatically give the passenger a right to know every detail of shipboard life.

 

Cruise ships are safe places to vacation and that goes for any cruise ship... not just Cunard's two!

 

Stephen

[eroller]

Caroline,

 

Heck, hasn't anyone been watching "Desperate Housewives?

 

 

Stephen

 

 

They have Desperate Housewives in Australia!!??? ;)

 

Just kidding Stephen.

 

I know "down under" has caught up with the times, but you *are* half a world away you know! Any chance of you and Ruth sailing on QE2 January 3rd?? I would be nice to see you both again.

 

Ernie

[PRINSENDAM]

They have Desperate Housewives in Australia!!??? ;)

 

Just kidding Stephen.

 

I know "down under" has caught up with the times, but you *are* half a world away you know! Any chance of you and Ruth sailing on QE2 January 3rd?? I would be nice to see you both again.

 

Ernie

 

 

Yes, we have "DH" down here. First season just finished!

 

We would have loved to have been able to get North to do this voyage, but instead we are doing STATENDAM... Auckland to Sydney then flying up to New York for maiden voyage of NOORDAM. After that we are thinking about AMSTERDAM to Hawaii or SAGA RUBY trans-pacific from Tokyo too LA. Ruth had not yet decided!!!!!

 

Stephen

[Jeanne S]

.

 

 

 

 

granted, there have not usually huge numbers of attractive and very young females on QE2, but there were some

 

 

We may not be young, but still heads turn.