Port Canaveral Expansion

[Ex techie]

You missed it. Look up the N.S. Savannah.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NS_Savannah

 

Thanks for the link Mick!

Her Staterooms like kind of cool! Retro cool!

 

 

Not technically a cruise ship though!

 

ex techie

Edited September 10, 2014 by Ex techie

[Ex techie]

While I completely agree with you on renewable energy costs, the fact that crude oil prices at the wellhead are dropping really doesn't mean much for the end user, as we've seen over the last few years as crude prices fluctuate and gas prices rise. The average barrel of crude oil is bought and sold 6 times on the futures market before it even reaches the refinery, which doesn't do anything but drive up it's price each time. And the switch on 1 Jan from low sulfur HFO to low sulfur diesel will result in a 30-50% increase in fuel cost for the ships. No one knows how the massive increase in demand for low sulfur marine diesel will affect pricing, or whether this will cause shortages of gasoline or heating oil because the refineries are using more crude and time making marine fuel.

 

That was what I meant.

 

ex techie

[Ex techie]

The voltage doesn't matter. A KW at 12V is the same as a KW at 1000V. The inverter regulates the voltage supplied to match the ship's grid.

 

How efficient are the inverters?

What is the loss through heat and conversion from 12v to 110v supply and what is the reduction in amp supply?

 

 

ex techie

[chengkp75]

How efficient are the inverters?

What is the loss through heat and conversion from 12v to 110v supply and what is the reduction in amp supply?

 

 

ex techie

 

The inverters are all now solid state, so there is very little loss in heat. You won't have a true sine wave, but the newest inverters come pretty close. Amps and volts are proportional. So if the 12v system generates 80kw, that's

6666 amps. Stepping up to 120v reduces the amperage to 666 amps.

[Ex techie]

I can see where you are coming from now Chief!

 

By the time the voltage is stepped up to a efficient voltage to transmit it to wherever on the ship (that isn't close by), then step it down again....

Would be OK for up to nearly 16,000 5w LED down lighters during daylight hours nearby, but limited use to be transferred to the rest of the ships electrical.

 

ex techie

[Host Mick]

While I completely agree with you on renewable energy costs, the fact that crude oil prices at the wellhead are dropping really doesn't mean much for the end user, as we've seen over the last few years as crude prices fluctuate and gas prices rise. The average barrel of crude oil is bought and sold 6 times on the futures market before it even reaches the refinery, which doesn't do anything but drive up it's price each time. And the switch on 1 Jan from low sulfur HFO to low sulfur diesel will result in a 30-50% increase in fuel cost for the ships. No one knows how the massive increase in demand for low sulfur marine diesel will affect pricing, or whether this will cause shortages of gasoline or heating oil because the refineries are using more crude and time making marine fuel.

 

Gas prices here have dropped 20% over the last year. They don't always rise.

 

That's not how the commodities futures market works. It's a zero sum market that stabilizes prices over time.

Edited September 14, 2014 by Host Mick

[Ex techie]

What are your thoughts on the switch from heavy fuel oil to low sulphur diesel will affect fuel prices for shipping Host Mick?

 

I'm interested on your take on this!

 

ex techie

[Host Mick]

What are your thoughts on the switch from heavy fuel oil to low sulphur diesel will affect fuel prices for shipping Host Mick?

 

I'm interested on your take on this!

 

ex techie

 

My guess is very little but oil is not my specialty.

I can't imagine that ships are anything but a very small percent of the #2 oil demand. The refinery crackers will have to work just a little harder.

Edited September 15, 2014 by Host Mick

[chengkp75]

My guess is very little but oil is not my specialty.

I can't imagine that ships are anything but a very small percent of the #2 oil demand. The refinery crackers will have to work just a little harder.

 

Well, right now, low sulfur diesel oil is $1200-1500/metric ton (depending on port in US). Low sulfur IFO380 (heavy fuel) runs around $900/metric ton, and the high sulfur heavy fuel is about $700/metric ton. The EPA has estimated the cost of the ECA regulations to be about $3.2 billion/year.

 

The big problem is that many refineries are the older second generation process. This removes as much light distillate products as possible, even using cracking, and what remains is heavy fuel oil. They cannot refine anything more out of the barrel of crude.

 

The third generation refinery can turn a barrel of crude into 95% light distillates, and what is left over is solid coke (used in steel making).

 

So, the older refineries cannot crank up and make more diesel fuel, without using more crude, and also finding a way to get rid of the residual fuel oil (either transporting it to a different refinery, or investing in the newer cracking systems, either of which will cost money, so the price of diesel will rise.

 

I've seen an estimate that the ships of the world burn an equivalent of 85% of the oil exported by Saudi Arabia, about 370 million metric tons.

 

Oh, I'd say that the US ECA and the coming regulations for the Med, will have a significant impact on the world economy, not just cruising, since 90% of world trade goes by sea.

[Ex techie]

My guess is very little but oil is not my specialty.

I can't imagine that ships are anything but a very small percent of the #2 oil demand. The refinery crackers will have to work just a little harder.

 

Specialities aside, you are commenting on the overall impact on the oil and gas industry.

I was referring to the cost of the additional refining of the fuel to the shipping industry as a whole.

If the fuel needs additional refining to be compliant to a low sulphur diesel, that is an additional cost to the refiner, therefore the price they charge for said fuel surely will increase to cover their costs, and be passed on to the buyer?

And that cost will be passed on to the passenger as I cannot see the cruise lines just absorbing the additional cost?

 

ex techie

[e2011]

I know Port Canaveral is #2 in passengers but I cannot figure out why?? Port Everglades has more ships and bigger ships! The numbers don;t make sense.

[Host Mick]

I know Port Canaveral is #2 in passengers but I cannot figure out why?? Port Everglades has more ships and bigger ships! The numbers don;t make sense.

 

Demand a recount. It's the Florida way.

[StarCruiser]

I know Port Canaveral is #2 in passengers but I cannot figure out why?? Port Everglades has more ships and bigger ships! The numbers don;t make sense.

 

Maybe it takes into account that Port Canaveral is often a Port of Call, whereas Port Everglades typically is not?