Am I the only one in this day and age that feels that WIFI should be free to everyone

[chengkp75]

You're not really being fair there. He's not being short-sighted at all. He explained how things are TODAY, which makes sense since the OP thinks shipboard WiFi should be free TODAY.

 

Of course things will improve over time, but right now the O3B satellite technology is what we techies call "bleeding edge" technology and is hideously expensive. It won't be outdated "soon" but certainly will be someday. One thing will remain the same though - shipboard internet connections will ALWAYS be slower and more expensive than those on land, for the simple reason that you can't run physical wires (or state-of-the-art fiber optic cables) to those ships, you'll always be using satellite technology or similar, and that will remain slower and more expensive than wired solutions on land.

 

Will shipboard WiFi be free someday? I'd hazard a guess that it will be - someday. But that someday isn't TODAY, and that's the technology we're all trying to explain here, without getting overly technical. Make it free today, put 5,000 users (BECAUSE its free) along with the required ship's traffic on even that bleeding-edge O3B uplink, and your internet experience will grind at agonizingly slow speed. I'll hazard a guess that no one would be happy with that, and CC would be filled with complaints about the ridiculously slow FREE WiFi onboard!

 

The ongoing challenge to overcome is - we're all used to using our phones/tablets/laptops based on current land-based internet speeds, and that usage evolves over time as land-based internet speeds continue to increase. You said it yourself with your cell phone timeline. So in 5-10 years when O3B has been replaced by even newer, faster technology, land-based internet speeds will also have gotten much faster than they are today, and our "standard" phone usage may include oodles of 1080 HD video streaming, along with other similar data-intensive usage. Which will still leave the challenge of how to provide enough bandwidth for 5,000 users, plus ship usage - using only satellite (long-range wireless) feeds.

 

Thanks. Not real tech savvy, more of a luddite, actually, but I can manage (I'm typing this!). I'm not completely up on the O3B, but since these are geosynchronous satellites, then there will be areas either not covered (God forbid!) or areas that only ships and a few islands will use (again, not sure of the footprint of each satellite, but I assume it's pretty small to get the data bandwidth required), so who will pay for those? The cruising public, because O3B will charge the cruise lines for being the major users of those satellites.

 

And I agree that it might be free in the future, but for now, with today's technology, if it was made free, then all the CC threads about internet charges would bloom into (more) threads about how abysmally slow the service is.

[FLACRUISER99]

One thing for sure they should charge for data transfered not per hour.

[Clarea]

Thanks. Not real tech savvy, more of a luddite, actually, but I can manage (I'm typing this!). I'm not completely up on the O3B, but since these are geosynchronous satellites, then there will be areas either not covered (God forbid!) or areas that only ships and a few islands will use (again, not sure of the footprint of each satellite, but I assume it's pretty small to get the data bandwidth required), so who will pay for those? The cruising public, because O3B will charge the cruise lines for being the major users of those satellites.

 

And I agree that it might be free in the future, but for now, with today's technology, if it was made free, then all the CC threads about internet charges would bloom into (more) threads about how abysmally slow the service is.

One of the big advantages to the O3B design is that the satellites are in medium earth orbit, around 3600 miles up. Geosync satellites are around 22,000 miles up. This will greatly reduce the transmission latency normally seen with geosync satellites.

Edited September 24, 2014 by clarea

[LetsGetWet!]

One thing for sure they should charge for data transfered not per hour.

I agree, that would make a great deal of sense.

 

A couple sticking points:

 

 

• It would require more hardware/software on the ship to be able to track that data usage.
  
• Its very difficult for many users to try to track and have any good idea of how much data they're using.
  

Right now, I don't purchase any shipboard WiFi, can get by with the free C&A allowance, plus using free WiFi in ports. But I know exactly which high data usage apps I'd have to shut off or change options for, and would personally be much more likely to sign up for a plan if I knew I could keep my costs a lot lower than the current unlimited usage prices by keeping my data usage low, but still have connectivity.

[LetsGetWet!]

What kind of speed does that get us? Well, from their own information, "the company reports that many of its telecommunications company customers are now able to provide 3G data services to their customers when before they were only able to offer voice services. And its data trunking service is able to provide 600Mbps with a latency of less than 150 milliseconds."

 

All of us "first-worlders" on cruise ships are used to high-speed 4G internet on our phones & tablets these days. 3G was introduced in the US in 2003, so its already more than a decade old, and obsolete for over 90% of the US population, who have solid 4G access. What does that mean exactly? Well, using Verizon for example - phonearena.com says Verizon 4G offers download speeds in the 6Mbps range, while their older 3G offers about .8Mbps - not quite an order of magnitude difference. 3G is generally defined as at least .14Mbps, which is where it started in 2003 in the US, and may well be what the new providers in the third world will be providing using O3B.

 

Meanwhile, back to our ship. O3B says its data trunking service provides 600 Mbps. So if our ship has 5,000 passengers wanting access, the math shows that each of them would get about .12Mbps, which is slower than the slowest 3G of 2003 - not at all what they're used to for internet access these days. Of course, all 5,000 won't be trying to access simultaneously, but we also haven't taken into account at all the ship's own usage, both for their systems and crew access.

 

Look at it another way. If you're a Verizon user you're currently used to about 6Mbps internet download speeds. The new O3B (onboard only Oasis & Allure) will be able to provide that experience - for up to 100 of the 5,000 passengers at a time, if the ship is using zero bandwidth, which of course isn't realistic. If the ship & crew are using 25%, that drops down to 75 passengers at a time who can be given the internet experience they've become accustomed to. If only 10% of the 5,000 passengers are trying to access the internet (not at all unreasonable if it was FREE) and the ship is using 25%, now those passengers are getting about what they'd see on a US 3G network, which they'll only experience in very rural regions of the US today. I guarantee you that would result in a lot of ongoing whining about poor internet onboard the ship.

Actually, its not as good as I postulated above. I took the info that "data trunking service is able to provide 600Mbps." Just found their maritime service brochure and they say their maritime service is capable of "up to 350 Mbps to ship" (download) and "up to 150 Mbps to shore" (upload.) So the examples I used above need to be reduced by about 50%. Up to 50 devices at a time could receive full 4G speeds comparable to what Verizon gives them at home - IF the ship is using nothing at all. If the number of passengers (devices) trying to use it at the same time rises to 10% (500), and the ship uses 25% of the bandwidth, then the average user experience will be WORSE than typical current 3G speeds, and not even near 10% of today's typical 4G bandwidth (6-8 Mbps) experience. And that's to say nothing of the 50-100 Mbps service which is available to most residential customers at this point in time if desired.

 

How do you provide better user experience? Well, one good way is to charge a premium which means a much smaller number of passengers (devices) will be online simultaneously. Of course the fact that that provides a significant revenue stream for the cruise line is just a (large) added bonus!

Edited September 24, 2014 by LetsGetWet!

[tanzer22pilot]

Without trying to go deeply into technical details, providing shipboard Internet isn't even remotely comparable to offering it at a hotel, restaurant, or even for a whole city. All of those rely on wired high-speed backbone connections to the Internet, while the ship must use wireless, satellite connection. Someone else mentioned a $25 million satellite able to handle 10 such connections, so $2.5 million each. That's just the initial cost, and that connection is still MUCH slower than the MUCH cheaper connection required for an entire small city.

 

Maybe the OP will buy a satellite, so it can be free for the rest of us.

[tanzer22pilot]

I was sitting at a table having dinner with my husband when an acquaintance of ours said "why do you even go to dinner with your husband you're always on your phone?" so I turned around to her and I said well let me see... my Mom AND my father in law are in the hospital dying at the moment... (they died 40 hrs apart) and we came to get dinner to grab a bite... I have a disabled son 1200 miles away who texts me about 20 times a day but some of those times are an emergency and I always check my phone just to make sure everything is okay. I have a daughter in law 1300 miles away who is pregnant and going into labor at any time so yes I am on my phone, checking my phone, But you know what??? it's really not your business!!!

I HATE when people THINK they know exactly what your doing. ..My pet peve!!!

 

And the other 99 out of 100 people are looking at cat videos.

 

But, (first, sorry for your lose of your parents) what are you able to do on the phone for your pregnant daughter that a baby doctor can not do? What are you able to do for your son 1200 miles away?

 

People seem to think that they can solve the world's problems by talking or texting. Sorry to be not the cheering cell phone fan, but hang up and live.

[Toddcan]

And the other 99 out of 100 people are looking at cat videos.

 

But, (first, sorry for your lose of your parents) what are you able to do on the phone for your pregnant daughter that a baby doctor can not do? What are you able to do for your son 1200 miles away?

 

People seem to think that they can solve the world's problems by talking or texting. Sorry to be not the cheering cell phone fan, but hang up and live.

 

 

It really doesn't take much to figure out how a text from Mom can be better than nothing. But, there is no need to get personal.. posts like yours are why these threads go south, and are deleted.

Edited September 24, 2014 by Toddcan

[Cinders411]

I see the pros and cons of both sides of the issue. I would not be inclined to use wifi constantly on my vacation but, it would be nice to surf by the pool. :)

[Mwins78]

I like to be disconnected from the world especially if my whole family is cruising its nice to sit down and talk face to face without someone checking there phone and yes I'm 100% guilty of it too

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums mobile app

[LetsGetWet!]

It really doesn't take much to figure out how a text from Mom can be better than nothing. But, there is no need to get personal.. posts like yours are why these threads go south, and are deleted.

Agreed. She had an excellent reason(s) for being on her phone during a significant portion of dinner. But without getting personal, I'll agree with a point he was trying to make. 99 of 100 sitting at dinner don't have that kind of reason, and those 99 are simply being rude to their dinner companions.

 

In fact, I along with most I know, consider it rude enough that if/when I'm that 1% with a valid reason, I'd apologize to my tablemates and mention I was dealing with serious family medical issues back home - without going into any further detail.

 

If you're dining with them, it IS their business if your head/eyes/hands are buried in your phone for a significant portion of the meal while you ignore them.

Edited September 24, 2014 by LetsGetWet!

[chengkp75]

One of the big advantages to the O3B design is that the satellites are in medium earth orbit, around 3600 miles up. Geosync satellites are around 22,000 miles up. This will greatly reduce the transmission latency normally seen with geosync satellites.

 

Again, may be all wet, but wouldn't you then be transiting from one satellite to another in the constellation, and wouldn't this increase data transmission time? Also, I bet the reason that the maritime transmission speed is so much lower as stated by LGW, is that you now have a moving satellite, and a moving earth station?

[bplazo]

They could just raise the fare a tiny bit and apply it towards WIFi and everyone would be happy.

 

I do not use it and I do not want to pay for it.

[LetsGetWet!]

Again, may be all wet, but wouldn't you then be transiting from one satellite to another in the constellation, and wouldn't this increase data transmission time? Also, I bet the reason that the maritime transmission speed is so much lower as stated by LGW, is that you now have a moving satellite, and a moving earth station?

You're right, the fact that their satellites are not geosynchronous means that every few hours you'll have to transition from one to the next. Not really sure exactly how they handle that. As for the moving earth station, I don't think that would necessarily affect the speeds. They state that the beam diameter is 700km, so its not like they have to constantly be "steering" or re-aiming the satellite to keep the beam connected.

[Clarea]

Again, may be all wet, but wouldn't you then be transiting from one satellite to another in the constellation, and wouldn't this increase data transmission time? Also, I bet the reason that the maritime transmission speed is so much lower as stated by LGW, is that you now have a moving satellite, and a moving earth station?

I'm sort of at the limit of my understanding, so I don't know if they are transmitting satellite to satellite or using the steerable antennas to maintain a connection with various ground stations. It's got to be complicated with the satellites contantly moving relative to nodes on the planet's surface.

 

Here's some info:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O3b_%28satellite%29

[TEXASMUNK]

I would ahve to disagree. Just read a month's worth of CC. Folks go nuts for a 37 cent price discount. Today every cruise line is squeezing the pricing to attract the booking.....thus the reason for the other major complaint of "nickle and diming"

 

There is no free lunch. LOL Except in the Windjammer....LOL

[Sitzmark]

If you're dining with them, it IS their business if your head/eyes/hands are buried in your phone for a significant portion of the meal while you ignore them.

 

No, it is not there business. I don't feel that I owe anything to random people that the cruise line happens to stick at my table. I certainly don't owe them any explanations as to why I don't feel like chatting up perfect strangers at dinner.

[LetsGetWet!]

No, it is not there business. I don't feel that I owe anything to random people that the cruise line happens to stick at my table. I certainly don't owe them any explanations as to why I don't feel like chatting up perfect strangers at dinner.

I'd say that if you don't have any desire to "chat up perfect strangers at dinner" that you should ask for a table for 2 (or 4, or whatever your party size is.) I think that most of those who ask to be seated at large tables do so precisely because they enjoy meeting and socializing with other folks on their cruise. Why would you ask to be seated at a large table if you have no desre or interest in having conversations and socializing with the others at your table?

Edited September 24, 2014 by LetsGetWet!

[Big_G]

No, it is not there business. I don't feel that I owe anything to random people that the cruise line happens to stick at my table. I certainly don't owe them any explanations as to why I don't feel like chatting up perfect strangers at dinner.

 

Then what's the point of choosing to sit with others in the dining room. Sorry but that's just rude and unfair to the others at the table.

[temple1]

as a spoiled diamond member who enjoys a certain amount of "free" time per cruise, I am very glad it is not more available. I use every one of my minutes and my traveling companion's (either sister or DH) minutes while on the ship and run a little over. I would not want more.

 

No, I am not a texting zombie, my cell phone is locked in the safe - and glad for it to be there. But for some of us in sales life does not end when we leave port. My clients know I can be reached by email even on vacation. Yes, they are spoiled, but because of them I am able to cruise when I like.

[cmich068]

I'd say that if you don't have any desire to "chat up perfect strangers at dinner" that you should ask for a table for 2 (or 4, or whatever your party size is.) I think that most of those who ask to be seated at large tables do so precisely because they enjoy meeting and socializing with other folks on their cruise. Why would you ask to be seated at a large table if you have no desre or interest in having conversations and socializing with the others at your table?

 

I'd say most people at large tables likely get assigned to them by default. 99% of people could care less about what dinner seating arrangements they have until they walk into the dining room at 6:00 or 8:15 on the first day of their cruise.

[Sitzmark]

Then what's the point of choosing to sit with others in the dining room. Sorry but that's just rude and unfair to the others at the table.

 

I do not pick the table, it's my understanding that the cruiseline picks the assignments. If the others feel they've been treated unfairly, then they should complain.

[Sitzmark]

I'd say most people at large tables likely get assigned to them by default. 99% of people could care less about what dinner seating arrangements they have until they walk into the dining room at 6:00 or 8:15 on the first day of their cruise.

 

Yep, I couldn't care less what the dinner arrangements are.

[Big_G]

I do not pick the table, it's my understanding that the cruiseline picks the assignments. If the others feel they've been treated unfairly, then they should complain.

 

 

You can request a table of your own. No guarantees but it sounds like that would be more preferable.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Sitzmark]

Yep, and I maintain they should provide free unlimited alcohol to everyone onboard too!

 

Good luck on either of those... :D

 

I have been to resorts that had unlimited alcohol included. I have no idea what kind of Internet service they had.