When did Princess start charging for fresh orange juice?

[Coral]

Does anyone know whether fresh sqeezed O.J. is available fleet wide in the Horizon Court? (Does anyone, besides me, care??? :)

 

On the Star Princess last December - there was an Omlette station setup right where the hamburgers were grilled and they also had fresh squeezed OJ there. I was surprised - this was the first time I had seen the Omlette station out there but it made sense and they were quite efficient and it didn't clog up the Horizon Court.

[Murphey]

Budget 33 dollars for fresh oj every morning and try HAL or Oceana next time. I knew I was spoiled by Crystal but last summer I enjoyed all the fresh oj I wanted on the Star Princess. oh well.

 

Hi neighbor!!! I asked for "fresh squeezed" OJ on the Dawn in May for room service. It came with a bill for $2.75. I signed it, and wrote "you've got to be kidding" on it. Was chatting with the CC hostess and mentioned it. Next day, I didn't order it, but it came anyway (and) each day after that!!!! Go figure!!!

[tommy]

I think prune juice is more popular on Holland anyway. Tom

[bdjam]

Well, I did work at Princess for almost ten years both in the office and onboard ship. I still have several friends working at Princess, and while they are not senior executives they do have more insight than the average person off the street. Between what they tell me, and my own findings in various industry publications I subscribe to it's not hard to formulate some conclusions. I keep track of the entire industry, not just one cruise line and it's interesting to see how it all fits together. I don't know for certain that PACIFIC and TAHITIAN will leave the Princess fleet, but I would be willing to bet they will. Even now, they don't fit the Princess profile and this will become even more apparent as Princess grows. They were acquired before Carnival took over Princess, and I think the parent company has other plans for them. Princess has also proven it can sell it's very large mega-ships in more exotic destinations such as Asia, Australia, and Europe ... so these smaller ships are really not needed as "feelers" any longer. They would be better suited in one of the other Carnival Corp. brands or sold off to Oceania which is looking to expand. So call it "postulating" if that makes you feel better, but I just consider myself well informed about the industry. I'm certainly not the one making any decisions, but I am capable of formulating some inferences based on my industry knowledge.

As I say – unless you know something we don’t. But I would point out that the official media releases from Princess’ Jan Schwartz (around the time the announcement that Regal was leaving the fleet came out) were that in order for those of us who prefer smaller ships to have our “Personal Choice,” the ships would remain in the fleet. Of course Sun and Dawn were included in that “small” designation. I realize media releases are a dime a dozen and Princess probably assumes no one will remember them…but...

In regards to Princess always having "big ships", it's not true. Princess started out with small ships (medium at the time) and kept them in the fleet for quite sometime. The catalyst that changed Princess was the merger with Sitmar. CROWN PRINCESS, STAR PRINCESS, and REGAL PRINCESS were not ordered by Princess. They were ordered by Sitmar and Princess acquired them by way of the "merger". It's interesting to speculate the direction Princess might have taken were Sitmar not acquired. Chances are the Princess fleet might have been similar to what we see at Crystal today. The Crystal ships are modeled after ROYAL PRINCESS and are basically an evolution of that ship. In fact Crystal was considered a Princess competitor when the line was first introduced. Times have certainly changed.

I don’t necessarily agree that Princess started with small ships – the original Island and Pacific were large cruise ships for their day (as was Royal) and it was really those two ships that brought Princess into its own – and these were the first ships that Princess owned outright…Princess Carla and Princess Italia were both leased ships, right? And Sun Princess 1 was a P&O transplant. As for the Sitmar merger, wasn’t that a strategic move? The owner of Sitmar had died and the passenger part of their business came up on the block and so P&O bought it out and incorporated them into the Princess fleet. It seems that I remember that P&O/Princess wasn’t doing well as Sitmar was their direct and formidable competition. I think the purchase of Sitmar was what brought Princess into the premium category – certainly the influence of Star 1, Crown 1 and Regal changed the direction of Princess at the time. I do agree that if Princess had followed the Royal profile – perhaps with quads instead of with the Sun profile – that Princess would be a different cruise line today – probably more to my liking. But again, if the Sitmar acquisition hadn’t come about, would Princess be here today?

Its true ships are getting larger at every cruise line, but some are getting larger than others. HAL has not broken the 100,000 gt threshold and I don’t think they will. I personally think it was a mistake for Celebrity to do this, as it’s difficult to provide a “premium” experience on a ship that carries 3000 passengers. I totally agree with you that Princess is following the same path it began before Carnival took over. Princess was already planning to become a mass-market line when GRAND PRINCESS was first ordered. Carnival is giving Princess the means to grow even faster and operate larger and larger ships. I truly think the passenger demographics of Carnival and Princess are more alike than different, at least in the Caribbean and Mexico markets. As Carnival expands to more exotic destinations we may see these lines attract virtually the audience. I think where Carnival Corp. is stepping in to help further differentiate Princess and HAL is more on the HAL side. Carnival approved a massive fleet revitalization program for HAL, and of course we are seeing more “premium” features on HAL. “Signature of Excellence” is a massive and expensive undertaking, and it absolutely is designed to differentiate HAL from Princess, not to mention keep up with lines like Celebrity which itself has made many improvements. Future ships for HAL will stay at or just under 100,000 gt, while Princess will see ships of 160,000 gt or greater. HAL will focus on tradition and personal enrichment, while Princess will probably go for more gimmicks like MUTS, and the family market.

 

Here we agree – it’s difficult to provide any kind of high quality experience when you’re dealing with masses of people. While it’s true that Princess has been able to sell its large ships in more exotic locations, you have to wonder what’s been lost by doing so. And yet I hardly thing we’ll see Emerald Princess sailing the Tahitian Islands anytime soon. I think if Princess values these exotic itineraries, they’re going to need to hold on to the smaller ships just to service them. If your postulation about HAL is correct, maybe I’ll be switching lines sometime in the future. What I see as the challenge for Princess is being able to walk the fine line between mass-market entry level cruises and something more sophisticated for the long-time passengers. Right now they’re doing both, and I wonder at the level of success. Already I’ve heard of people who – because they enjoyed the more upscale experience they’ve had on longer Princess cruise – have been disappointed with Caribbean Princess. I would imagine vice versa would apply…so by trying to be something for everyone, I think Princess might just alienate part of their market.

 

Anyway, enough “postulating” as you like to call it. Talk to me in a couple years time and we shall see how much of what I predict comes true! ;)

Deal - maybe we can find a ship that we'll both enjoy together...

[eroller]

I don’t necessarily agree that Princess started with small ships – the original Island and Pacific were large cruise ships for their day (as was Royal) and it was really those two ships that brought Princess into its own – and these were the first ships that Princess owned outright…Princess Carla and Princess Italia were both leased ships, right? And Sun Princess 1 was a P&O transplant. As for the Sitmar merger, wasn’t that a strategic move? The owner of Sitmar had died and the passenger part of their business came up on the block and so P&O bought it out and incorporated them into the Princess fleet. It seems that I remember that P&O/Princess wasn’t doing well as Sitmar was their direct and formidable competition. I think the purchase of Sitmar was what brought Princess into the premium category – certainly the influence of Star 1, Crown 1 and Regal changed the direction of Princess at the time. I do agree that if Princess had followed the Royal profile – perhaps with quads instead of with the Sun profile – that Princess would be a different cruise line today – probably more to my liking. But again, if the Sitmar acquisition hadn’t come about, would Princess be here today?

 

 

Well, I don't think we see quite eye to eye on this. I don't feel that the original ISLAND and PACIFIC were ever considered "large cruise ships", even in their day. These high density ships were built at a time when much larger "ocean liners" were sailing as cruise ships. Holland America was sailing the larger ROTTERDAM and STATENDAM, Home Lines had the DORIC and OCEANIC, and of course Sitmar had the larger FAIRSEA and FAIRWIND. Even Norwegian America had the SAGAFJORD and VISTAFJORD. All larger ships. Of course there was also the QE2 and even Carnival was sailing the larger MARDI GRAS, CARNIVALE, and FESTIVALE. You are right that the two earliest Princess ships were leased and operated under charter.

 

ROYAL PRINCESS was considered large at the time, but not exceptionally huge (there were still many larger ships sailing) and no different than what the competition was building. Sitmar was building the FAIRSKY at the time, along with Royal Caribbean and their SONG OF AMERICA. Carnival had already built the TROPICALE and was working on the HOLIDAY ... again in the same category of tonnage.

 

I think Princess was a "premium" line before the Sitmar merger, and once that merger was completed and Princess took on three very large ships, then the line slowly began the process of becoming a mass-market cruise line. I believe the Princess/Sitmar merger was strategic in the fact that Princess didn't want to lose market-share. Sitmar had plans for three mega-ships, and Princess had none. Sitmar would have basically wiped Princess off the map and Princess did what it did to protect itself. As Princess grew they could no longer rely on their "premium" audience to fill ships, and had to expand their appeal to a broader audience. You would not believe the prices Princess used to charge for cruises in the early 80's. They were right up there with Cunard, Royal Viking, and Norwegian America Line (three top rated cruise lines at the time). The rates were EXPENSIVE .... so much more so than today in relative terms. Princess had no problem filling those ships during the early 80's, even at the very high per diems. The GRAND PRINCESS was truly the catalyst that changed the Princess demographic from "premium" to "mass-market". This ship was built to appeal to a wide audience of every income bracket, and succeeded so well that we now have today's Princess Cruises that almost anyone considering a vacation can afford.

 

 

Here we agree – it’s difficult to provide any kind of high quality experience when you’re dealing with masses of people. While it’s true that Princess has been able to sell its large ships in more exotic locations, you have to wonder what’s been lost by doing so. And yet I hardly thing we’ll see Emerald Princess sailing the Tahitian Islands anytime soon. I think if Princess values these exotic itineraries, they’re going to need to hold on to the smaller ships just to service them. If your postulation about HAL is correct, maybe I’ll be switching lines sometime in the future. What I see as the challenge for Princess is being able to walk the fine line between mass-market entry level cruises and something more sophisticated for the long-time passengers. Right now they’re doing both, and I wonder at the level of success. Already I’ve heard of people who – because they enjoyed the more upscale experience they’ve had on longer Princess cruise – have been disappointed with Caribbean Princess. I would imagine vice versa would apply…so by trying to be something for everyone, I think Princess might just alienate part of their market.

 

 

I agree that Princess essentially has two products right now. The mega-ships sailing the mass-market destinations such as the Caribbean and Mexico, and the ships that sail the more exotic itineraries. What I see is the gap between those two markets getting smaller and smaller. We are seeing a trend of mass-market mega-ships sailing to places unheard of only a few years ago. Princess has 100,000 + gt ships sailing to Australia and Europe, and they are sell-outs. Carnival has sent CARNIVAL LIBERTY to Europe and it's doing so well that she will return next year. Royal Caribbean will send VOYAGER OF THE SEAS to Europe next year, again a move that no one would have expected only a few years ago. When Princess introduced GRAND PRINCESS, she was fully intended to sail on year round Caribbean cruises. Who knew she would prove so popular in Europe and be a sell-out? The World is getting smaller as it becomes more accessible to the masses, and we have seen the beginning of the masses traveling abroad. This will only continue. Frankly I just don't think Princess will have a need for the smaller PACIFIC and TAHITIAN PRINCESS, when they can essentially sail the same routes on a much larger ship with better economies of scale and yields. I think the two smaller Princess ships will find their way to a more suitable Carnival Corp. brand or be sold off all together. They no longer fit the Princess profile ... and frankly they never did even when they were first purchased. I have always questioned this decision. In regards to Tahiti, it's a tough market. I agree the mega-ships are currently too big for Tahiti, but I'm not sure having a year round presence in Tahiti has been profitable for Princess. Airlift is very difficult and Princess has had to offer some very low yields during certain times of the year to fill the ship. I would not be surprised to see Princess pull out of Tahiti all together, except for a few cruises a year out of Australia or during a repositioning. Just a hunch, and certainly nothing concrete that I am a aware of.

 

I don't think Carnival Corp. wants Princess to offer "something for everyone". This is the whole reason Carnival has separate brands to begin with. Princess needs a defined product and market and those ships that don't meet the criteria will probably be transferred out of the fleet. If you want something smaller and more intimate, then Carnival Crop. will have the product for you. They don't want inconsistency within the brands as it's likely to pull unnecessary market share away from a sister brand. This is one reason I think we are seeing HAL become more defined as a "premium" brand while Princess will take the role of "mass-market", with a slightly more refined atmosphere than sister brand Carnival Cruise Lines.

 

Personally, I don't think HAL will ever be my "line of choice", at least until I am much older. They have a great product, but for me it's lacking something. I much prefer Celebrity in the premium category. It's a slightly younger demographic and the ships are much more stylish. But to each his own, and it's nice we have so many products to choose from even if they do sometimes seem like they are getting more and more alike.

 

Ernie