Ecstasy tragedy this morning

[jackson bernard]

The cruiseline will probably found partially at fault.

 

The article said there were kids up there the night before, so it may be common for kids to do that. If carnival knew or should have known and did nothing to prevent it....then they probably have some responsibility. I do not know how common it is to find kids up there though.

Secondly, weren't there any type of warning horns or lights before that thing started swinging around? Were they working? Don't they look at it before turning it on to see if something is blocking it or if it is damaged in any way?

 

 

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[Ocean Boy]

The cruiseline will probably found partially at fault.

 

The article said there were kids up there the night before, so it may be common for kids to do that. If carnival knew or should have known and did nothing to prevent it....then they probably have some responsibility. I do not know how common it is to find kids up there though.

Secondly, weren't there any type of warning horns or lights before that thing started swinging around? Were they working? Don't they look at it before turning it on to see if something is blocking it or if it is damaged in any way?

 

 

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This isn't baggage claim at the airport. It is highly unlikely that a warning goes off in an area where there should be no people in the first place.

[chengkp75]

The cruiseline will probably found partially at fault.

 

The article said there were kids up there the night before, so it may be common for kids to do that. If carnival knew or should have known and did nothing to prevent it....then they probably have some responsibility. I do not know how common it is to find kids up there though.

Secondly, weren't there any type of warning horns or lights before that thing started swinging around? Were they working? Don't they look at it before turning it on to see if something is blocking it or if it is damaged in any way?

 

 

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The radar antenna is on a platform 20' above the deck. The access ladder, on all ships, is clearly marked with "Danger" signs, "No Access" signs, and a sign that says "Check with Bridge Officer before climbing" as this is a restricted area even for crew. This is an area where no one should be at any time, especially at night. There are protocols for working "aloft" that require the radars to be turned off, warning signs posted on the radar screens in the bridge, and the circuit breakers to be turned off, even to climb up to change a light bulb on the mast, for just this reason. There is no need for warning lights or horns when it starts rotating. Do you lift the hood on your car and check the fan to see if it is damaged or obstructed before starting your car every time?

Edited October 1, 2014 by chengkp75

[BeagleOne]

Wouldn't the radar have been on when the ship was approaching port, and therefore the antenna part would have been rotating? I'm just skeptical of the version given in the news...that a group of the young men was up there watching the sunrise and the radar suddenly came on and knocked one off the platform.

[chengkp75]

Wouldn't the radar have been on when the ship was approaching port, and therefore the antenna part would have been rotating? I'm just skeptical of the version given in the news...that a group of the young men was up there watching the sunrise and the radar suddenly came on and knocked one off the platform.

 

The ship has two radars and two antennas. While at sea, some ships will turn one radar to "standby" which stops the antenna rotating and transmitting, there will always be one turning up there. I find it hard to believe that in the crowded shipping area in the approaches to Miami, that the bridge officer did not have both radars going all night long. There are just too many yachts, sport fishermen, and cargo ships in that area to just have one radar going.

[BeagleOne]

Thanks, that answers my question perfectly!

[jackson bernard]

The radar antenna is on a platform 20' above the deck. The access ladder, on all ships, is clearly marked with "Danger" signs, "No Access" signs, and a sign that says "Check with Bridge Officer before climbing" as this is a restricted area even for crew. This is an area where no one should be at any time, especially at night. There are protocols for working "aloft" that require the radars to be turned off, warning signs posted on the radar screens in the bridge, and the circuit breakers to be turned off, even to climb up to change a light bulb on the mast, for just this reason. There is no need for warning lights or horns when it starts rotating. Do you lift the hood on your car and check the fan to see if it is damaged or obstructed before starting your car every time?

 

No, i don't but I check behind me before backing up, and my car is stationary the entire night before I get into it. (Unless she is out playing with her car friends)

 

Usually there is some sort of audible or visual warning before equipment starts up that can't be seen from where being operated.

 

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[7leagueboots]

You can do everything in your power to raise your kid(s) responsibly, and it can still all be undone in 5 minutes of very bad decision making on that kid's part. Especially in a group setting where there a bunch of other people making the same dumb decision. Most people survive their dumb decisions; this young man paid with his life.

 

My condolences to his family. It was a very bad decision on his part, and nobody's fault but his own, but they will suffer forever.

 

You make a good point "group think" can lead people to do things they might not normally do by themselves.

[RuthlessBoss]

At least at NCL, there were more cameras in the crew areas than in guest areas. They are really more for monitoring crew than guests.

 

I wasn't referring to cruising in general. I was referring to a particular time frame coming into port. Carnival likely has cameras in the crew area too, but during that specific time, the crews likely were out and about getting ready to dock and disembark.

[chengkp75]

No, i don't but I check behind me before backing up, and my car is stationary the entire night before I get into it. (Unless she is out playing with her car friends)

 

Usually there is some sort of audible or visual warning before equipment starts up that can't be seen from where being operated.

 

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You asked if they checked a piece of rotating equipment before starting it, and I asked if you did the same with your car. The fan is not visible from where you are operating the car, so it could be damaged or obstructed. What does that have to do with backing the car up?

 

What regulatory agency requires the audible and visual warnings that you reference? Is this a law in Panama, where the ship is registered? Is this required by IMO? I'm not aware of it. I ask because these are the only two entities that have worker's safety jurisdiction onboard the Ecstasy.

[khalubear]

A tragic end. My condolences to friends and family. Maybe the story will remind people to think first and maybe save their own life. We have all done something in our lives that could have gone wrong. Raced a yellow that turned red, texting while driving, gone on a roller coaster, walked against a no walk signal, used a table saw or chain saw dangerously, or tried your hand at replacing an outlet knowing you shouldn't be. Most time we come out of it unscathed. Again my condolences.

[chengkp75]

They will probably sued in the USA, as carnival is a USA corporation. I bet your attitude would change if it was one of your kids.

 

While the Carnival cruise contract states that all legal action is done in the Florida court system, Carnival is not a US corporation. Why do you think that Congress is always after the cruise lines for avoiding taxes? Of course they will be sued, but is that right? If a person climbs over a fence, past warning signs, and climbs a cell tower, subsequently falling and dying, is the cell company liable? The person was not supposed to be there in the first place. You can't always blame everything on someone else. People have to take responsibility for their actions. Carnival will settle out of court.

 

As for my attitude, while I feel sad for the man's family, all I am doing is stating the facts and laws of the situation. You cannot completely protect everyone from every possible danger, especially when warnings are disregarded.

[Cruise life]

A tragic end. My condolences to friends and family. Maybe the story will remind people to think first and maybe save their own life. We have all done something in our lives that could have gone wrong. Raced a yellow that turned red, texting while driving, gone on a roller coaster, walked against a no walk signal, used a table saw or chain saw dangerously, or tried your hand at replacing an outlet knowing you shouldn't be. Most time we come out of it unscathed. Again my condolences.

 

 

I'm sorry, but I don't see the similarities between common everyday recklessness and climbing on a ship's mast.

 

 

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[elliair]

Apparently he wanted to see the Miami sunrise:

 

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/10/01/college-student-who-plunged-to-death-on-cruise-was-watching-miami-sunrise/?intcmp=latestnews

[A2Mich]

I feel sad for his family, but honestly, every action has consequences. Granted this ended tragically, but hopefully others will reconsider doing such less than intelligent things.

 

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[CI66774]

The cruiseline will probably found partially at fault.

 

The article said there were kids up there the night before, so it may be common for kids to do that. If carnival knew or should have known and did nothing to prevent it....then they probably have some responsibility. I do not know how common it is to find kids up there though.

Secondly, weren't there any type of warning horns or lights before that thing started swinging around? Were they working? Don't they look at it before turning it on to see if something is blocking it or if it is damaged in any way?

 

 

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How do you know the cruise line will "probably" be found partially responsible? Do you have facts the rest of us don't? Exactly what law will apply to this case? Statutes involved? What about governing case law? Until all the facts are known, let's stop being arm chair attorneys.

[A2Mich]

How do you know the cruise line will "probably" be found partially responsible? Do you have facts the rest of us don't? Exactly what law will apply to this case? Statutes involved? What about governing case law? Until all the facts are known, let's stop being arm chair attorneys.

 

Because in a litigious society like we have, it seems that everything is always the fault of someone else. Remember the lady who burned her private parts with hot coffee from McD's? Hard to really blame McD's because she wasn't smart enough to realize the coffee would be hot---but that idiot settled for a large sum of money.

 

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[lovesublime]

Because in a litigious society like we have, it seems that everything is always the fault of someone else. Remember the lady who burned her private parts with hot coffee from McD's? Hard to really blame McD's because she wasn't smart enough to realize the coffee would be hot---but that idiot settled for a large sum of money.

 

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You don't know the facts of that case. McDonalds had been warned numerous times by inspectors that their coffee was too hot for serving and already 700 reports of people having been burned by their coffee had been made. The woman initially was only seeking a small amount for medical expenses, but McD's said no. They got sued. The burn victim suffered third degree burns and required skin grafts. Her actual reward for damages and expenses was reasonable, but the court hit McD's with nearly $3 million in punitive damages. That really says something. I believe eventually the amount was reduced after an appeals court found the victim 20% responsible for the accident.

[jackson bernard]

How do you know the cruise line will "probably" be found partially responsible? Do you have facts the rest of us don't? Exactly what law will apply to this case? Statutes involved? What about governing case law? Until all the facts are known, let's stop being arm chair attorneys.

 

Who is us?

[chengkp75]

In a case like this, the line will generally settle for a sealed settlement that will include the wording that the cruise line admits no liability. We had a passenger who was drunk and decided to slide down the curved bannister of the stairs in the atrium. Since the bannister is not designed to hold the weight of a human, it broke, and he impaled his leg on one of the supports. The line settled.

[jackson bernard]

In a case like this, the line will generally settle for a sealed settlement that will include the wording that the cruise line admits no liability. We had a passenger who was drunk and decided to slide down the curved bannister of the stairs in the atrium. Since the bannister is not designed to hold the weight of a human, it broke, and he impaled his leg on one of the supports. The line settled.

 

Who is we?

 

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[chengkp75]

Who is we?

 

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NCL, when I worked there.

[Tonka's Skipper]

In a case like this, the line will generally settle for a sealed settlement that will include the wording that the cruise line admits no liability. We had a passenger who was drunk and decided to slide down the curved bannister of the stairs in the atrium. Since the bannister is not designed to hold the weight of a human, it broke, and he impaled his leg on one of the supports. The line settled.

 

You are of course totally correct Chief. The lawyers will have calculated a figure, where it become cheaper to settle for a small amount and not admitting guilt and the plaintives are not allowed to talk about the settlement.

 

High then this amount...........they seriously look at fighting the suit.

 

AKK

[Tonka's Skipper]

The cruiseline will probably found partially at fault.

 

The article said there were kids up there the night before, so it may be common for kids to do that. If carnival knew or should have known and did nothing to prevent it....then they probably have some responsibility. I do not know how common it is to find kids up there though.

Secondly, weren't there any type of warning horns or lights before that thing started swinging around? Were they working? Don't they look at it before turning it on to see if something is blocking it or if it is damaged in any way?

 

 

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The reports said that the group with the man that died, stated there were other people (not kids) on the mast the night before..........highly questionable

 

The mast is in a restricted area to keep passengers out of there and away from the Mast. Lets be honest here, this is a matter of common sense and a grown adult, they had no right to be up there. If the man and his friends saw other climbing on the handrails and hanging their feet over the side.............should he have done that as well?

 

Any crew member who would go up there would be advising the bridge, who would have fully shut down the antenna and put a sign over the radar indicating *man working aloft*.

 

Frankly a warning horn would not have helped in any case, those antennas start up and reach full spinning speed very fast.

 

The mast is located behind the bridge, n a darkened area.

 

Again as sad as this is, the man acted stupidly and caused the loss of his own life and a lot of pain to his family and others.

 

Just because your on a cruise ship does not give you license to act like a fol.

 

AKK

[Tonka's Skipper]

Apparently he wanted to see the Miami sunrise:

 

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/10/01/college-student-who-plunged-to-death-on-cruise-was-watching-miami-sunrise/?intcmp=latestnews

 

Which raises the point..........the sun rises in the east and the vessel was heading in a westerly direction.

 

AKK