84 yrs old died after being put off a cruise.

[tring]

Up to a few years ago, the stance of the Insurance Company was that, obviously, there would be no medical cover in respect of the newly declared, but as yet undiagnosed condition.

 

Now, medical cover is withdrawn in respect of all declared, and accepted, medical conditions.

 

If, as has happened in my case, a fully paid for overseas holiday is due to take place before investigations are due to commence, one is forced to decide to either cancel the holiday or travel without medical insurance.

 

Obviously, one cancels the holiday, which in the case of a cruise costs the Insurance Company substantially.

 

 

I have been in the situation of not being able to get insurance for something under investigation on about 3 different occasions over the years. One of those was very recently. My insurance has never (even within the last month) withdrawn cover for other conditions that have previously been declared or for the holidays that have been booked before the undiagnosed condition came to light. We have an annual insurance with Lloyds Bank, which is run by AXA.

 

I have left telling the insurance about an undiagnosed condition after booking another holiday, but before travelling, nothing was diagnosed so that was OK, but they may, or may not, charge more at my next renewal date. Our intention was to cancel the holiday if I could not get full insurance - we decided the holiday and the deal we got was worth the risk of loosing the deposit and we thought that risk was slight.

 

We also tell the insurance company about everything and if another problem arises, they take the details of hols booked before the new condition came to light and say we are insured for those hols. So we do not need re screened for those holidays, but would do for any new holidays that are booked.

 

I presume all companies have slightly different ways of working, but I have heard that there are only two holiday insurance companies, which come in different guises - AXA is one. I suppose they may well offer different terms for different products (marketed differently) though.

 

I would be a bit suspicious if insurance is particularly cheap.

[tring]

To add to my previous post.

 

Our companies T&C's also say that we cannot travel if against medical advice. Hence, if a new undiagnosed condition meant that medical advice was that we could not travel, then insurance would be withdrawn form previously covered conditions. In that position, I assume we would be able to claim cancellation costs, which we would not be able to if not advised against travel.

 

It is possible the person I quoted previously has been advised against travel, or it could just be different company policies.

[English Voyager]

My Travel Insurance is with American Express who act as intermediary for AXA.

 

With my insurance it is definitely the case that medical cover is withdrawn for all existing declared and accepted medical conditions until such time as a diagnosis has been obtained in respect of the condition under investigation.

 

Last year I queried the position with Staysure who confirmed that they operate the same policy.

Edited February 12, 2015 by English Voyager

[Missus Makkem]

Which you can't do on a cruise.

 

David.

 

Americans do it all the time and brag about it.

[tjwa]

Which you can't do on a cruise.

 

David.

 

Oh yes you can. P&O and other cruise lines ask for your insurance details but they don't check them. It is your risk if you travel without insurance.

[Daftlad]

I am becoming confused about the interpretation of "undiagnosed pre - existing condition.

In my wife's case she fell ill just after we had paid the outstanding balance. She had no indication that she had the condition when the insurance was taken out and no history of the ailment existed. In my eyes then, that constituted something that was obviously pre - existing but not yet diagnosed.

To cut a long story short, I challenged the insurers decision under their "Treating Customers Fairly" policy which resulted in them reversing their decision and I was more than happy to accept that. The even better news being that my wife made a full recovery.

[tjwa]

You are on a roll at present aren't you?

Keep it up!

 

Don't encourage him.;);)

[Daftlad]

Don't encourage him.;);)

 

Marmite springs to mind.

[balf]

Americans do it all the time and brag about it.

 

Yes but in the US there is no stipulation that insurance is needed to book.

 

David.

[dsrdsrdsr]

I am becoming confused about the interpretation of "undiagnosed pre - existing condition.

 

I think it means that you have symptoms that are still under medical investigation, but no diagnosis has yet been made.

 

If you book a holiday but then suffer unexplained stomach pains, say, the insurance will not cover you for travel until those pains have either been diagnosed, or have been looked at and deemed not serious. If you've never had a pain at the time the holiday was booked, your cancellation cover is valid even if the insurers disallow the medical coverage. If you've had pains and ignored them before you booked (even if you hadn't seen a doctor), then you're cancellation cover won't be valid either if the insurers find out; unless the pains are deemed to be either so minor or so consistent with something trivial that it would have been unreasonable to assume they mattered. (Eg. in my case, awake all night twice with stomach ache after eating steak puddings both times is not considered to be evidence of gallstones.)

 

Once the investigations have finished you may have a diagnosed condition which the insurer decides whether or not to cover - again, cancellation cover will still be valid. Or you may have a clean bill of health with no diagnosis, in which case you will have to tell the insurer and hope they (like Staysure) tend not to count it against you. Or, of course, you may find yourself like me, minus a gall bladder but otherwise fully fit, collecting for a lost holiday but paying increased premiums for a couple of years.

[tring]

My Travel Insurance is with American Express who act as intermediary for AXA.

 

With my insurance it is definitely the case that medical cover is withdrawn for all existing declared and accepted medical conditions until such time as a diagnosis has been obtained in respect of the condition under investigation.

 

Last year I queried the position with Staysure who confirmed that they operate the same policy.

 

 

That sounds very worrying, but at least they still paid up for cancellation costs. As I said our insurance are still honouring other conditions, so a search round may just get you some insurance, but it is probably of little use if there is still a condition that cannot be covered. I suppose AXA have a number of products and tailor different ones according to the wishes and budget of the company who want to offer that insurance - so T&C's could differ.

 

I should think it is also possible that different conditions may be treated differently, in terms of whether they pull other insurance. My problem was a scan of my sinuses due to constant sinus pain after a tooth abcess, but chest pains, for instance, may have been treated quite differently. Antibiotics sorted my pain and the scan was clear - luckily.

 

We are just intent on travelling as much as we can case we hit a real obstacle in the future.

 

Good luck with your health problem.

 

Cheers,

 

Barbara

[CRUISIN LINDA]

To get back to the OP :rolleyes: There is a letter in the DM today with a similar theme, but on the Adonia. Not sure if this link will work. You need to click on it to make it move along until you see "I'm lucky to survive my ordeal on a P&O cruise"

 

http://www.pressreader.com/category/editorial/en/gb

[dgs1956]

To get back to the OP :rolleyes: There is a letter in the DM today with a similar theme, but on the Adonia. Not sure if this link will work. You need to click on it to make it move along until you see "I'm lucky to survive my ordeal on a P&O cruise"

 

http://www.pressreader.com/category/editorial/en/gb

 

The link works. It is an interesting and worrying read. It would have been interesting to hear the P&O response if there was one.

[CRUISIN LINDA]

The link works. It is an interesting and worrying read. It would have been interesting to hear the P&O response if there was one.

It was a letter, so possibly not possible for P&O to reply, but I agree it would be good to hear what they say.

 

Luckily he had booked his own hotel, unlike the other case, where P&O seem to have cancelled the flight and hotel.

[Mysticalmother]

Once again, I have sympathy for the people in question - it is never nice to fall ill on any holiday, let alone a cruise.

 

But again we do not actually know the facts - only what the letter says in the paper AND bear in mind that the DM may well have edited the letter.

 

Where I live numerous people have fallen ill over Christmas and afterwards with a virus which affects the chest and has ended up with people suffering from pneumonia or a chest infection, and several have been admitted to hospital. Mainly older folk but a few younger ones too. I don't doubt ( but I do not know) that this virus was brought on board by a passenger - or passengers - who, understandably did not want to miss their cruise, and so perhaps rather selfishly infected others. There would also be others harbouring the virus unbeknown to them who would in time go down with it and infect others. Anti - Bacterial gel would have little if any effect against this virus.

 

Being on a cruise ship is no different from any form of public transport, office school, hospital, or public place when it comes to spreading a virus. Whilst I am not specifically defending PandO, I doubt there was much they could have done in the circumstances. It sounds to me that the doctor was actually doing the right thing here by sending the passenger to hospital for treatment. And I am not sure what PandO's responsibility was after they left the ship as the writer says they booked the hotel independently.

 

Once again, they - PandO are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

The writer says that the cruise industry has a problem and needs to do something about it. In all the times I have been on cruising I have never seen a problem with cleanliness by the staff on board ship - but I have seen many passengers fail to wash their hands after using the toilets and refusing to use the sanitising gel (not that I am convinced by its effectiveness) .

 

I am not sure what he thinks they can do - the main problem seems to be the passengers ....

[richleeds]

The writer says that the cruise industry has a problem and needs to do something about it. In all the times I have been on cruising I have never seen a problem with cleanliness by the staff on board ship - but I have seen many passengers fail to wash their hands after using the toilets and refusing to use the sanitising gel (not that I am convinced by its effectiveness) .

 

 

 

I am not sure what he thinks they can do - the main problem seems to be the passengers ....

 

 

From your screen name I would guess you are female? Perceptive I know.

 

Are you really saying you see your fellow female cruisers come out of the toilet cubicle and not wash their hands?!

 

I know guys are well known for having a quick pee and not washing their hands but I did not think the fairer species were in the same boat.

 

Coincidentally this does seem to be a UK trait as in the States you always see gents washing their hands post bladder emptying.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mysticalmother]

From your screen name I would guess you are female? Perceptive I know.

 

Are you really saying you see your fellow female cruisers come out of the toilet cubicle and not wash their hands?!

 

I know guys are well known for having a quick pee and not washing their hands but I did not think the fairer species were in the same boat.

 

Coincidentally this does seem to be a UK trait as in the States you always see gents washing their hands post bladder emptying.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Gosh Rich - you are clever! Yes I am female:D

 

And, yes, unfortunately, I have quite often seen females not washing their hands after a trip to the cubicles. And at the risk of being accused of age discrimination, it tends to be the old(-er) females.

 

But you have shocked me with the suggestion that guys don't wash their hands after a quick peeeeeeee.....:eek:

[richleeds]

And, yes, unfortunately, I have quite often seen females not washing their hands after a trip to the cubicles. And at the risk of being accused of age discrimination, it tends to be the old(-er) females.

 

 

Ewww. The dirty old.....

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited February 13, 2015 by richleeds

[dgs1956]

Gosh Rich - you are clever! Yes I am female:D

 

And, yes, unfortunately, I have quite often seen females not washing their hands after a trip to the cubicles. And at the risk of being accused of age discrimination, it tends to be the old(-er) females.

 

But you have shocked me with the suggestion that guys don't wash their hands after a quick peeeeeeee.....:eek:

 

Its not all guys that don't wash their hands but sadly definitely not uncommon.

IMO hygiene amongst Brits isn't that good. How many do you see getting into swimming pools without showering? At our local gym I've seen people coming out a sauna and straight into a pool.

We had a Visitor Attraction for many years and I've seen plenty of examples from males and females of poor hygiene. Thankfully a small percentage though.

[jimdalva]

Condolences to the family

 

The very fact that she passed away, demonstrates that she needed more care than the ship could offer. She died 4, almost 5 days later in San Francisco. Why was she not in a hospital in SF.

 

PS She went out cruising, what a way to go!

[balf]

To get back to the OP :rolleyes: There is a letter in the DM today with a similar theme, but on the Adonia. Not sure if this link will work. You need to click on it to make it move along until you see "I'm lucky to survive my ordeal on a P&O cruise"

 

http://www.pressreader.com/category/editorial/en/gb

 

Well I was aboard on this cruise and also dined at the same table as the letter writer.

 

He is correct about the lack of hand gel, particularly as the captain had asked all the passengers to take extra care with hygiene.

 

However the sick couple, or on some evenings the gentleman alone dined with us and the other couple and there was much coughing around that table for the whole cruise. The lady looked quite ill at times and we were quite concerned about her, but why, when they must have known they had infections (the doctor wore a mask) did they put us in danger of getting the virus too.

 

Also they were not put off the ship, the cruise was over for passengers disembarking in Barbados and as they had made their own arraignments for onward travel it was not really P&O's responsibility once they left.

 

David.