Has anyone else stopped recommending RCI to people?

[stoneharborlady]

The Caribbean Princess was a fairly nice ship but it had a very small promenade. Also, you had to pay a lot for the Sanctuary area whereas the Royal Caribbean has a free adults pool area. Smoking (or the lack of it) is extremely important to us but all the cruise lines seem to be handling that in the same way. So, the whole cruise selection process is very subjective and just depends upon what is important to each person.

 

 

 

To be fair to Princess, the Caribbean Princess has two free adult pools. Yes, the Sanctuary area is close to one of them, and is a pay venue, but has no connection to using either pool areas. They have no charge.

[vacationers]

Have not really stopped recommending RCCL, but suggest that there are choices out there.

 

That prices for RCCl have gone up to high and the ports are the same. Like some say on this thread after looking at tother lines found different ports for lower prices. St Thomas has become not a very often port and less time in the port.

 

The perks were are good and enjoy the DL, but they are slowing eliminating a lot. The onboard coupons are not the best and the DL is slowly converting into going into another lounge. No pre boarding lounges available in Florida even though they used to have them and they still advertise them. I find myself looking at other places and adventure and well as different port.

 

When new ships were coming ut, we always had our own private event for booking with special pricing, now it just opens to the public and no perks for us.

Edited March 17, 2015 by vacationers

[Mary loves to travel]

This is exactly what a good loyalty program is supposed to do. Outsider looking in, Royal is darn good at it. Once the economy for cruising is back full strength[ its getting real close BTW] and core repeat customers become less valuable, a company will then eye up a new target market and new strategy and new target points/rewards for them to gravitate to. Royal has convinced so many that those lounges and perks were the be all and end all. They can and have changed the program at any time.

 

You have hit the nail on the head! RCCL is moving towards a fully all-inclusive model. First, higher prices, but look! we are throwing in the drink packages! Next, pricing will just include the drink packages. They are targeting a younger more casual market. Clearly the number of people who enjoy the traditional assigned seating-dress up-dinner model has declined. Half empty dining rooms isn't fun for anyone and not a great use of space. Many land based resorts are indeed all-inclusive, and that is the competition it seems, or at least the market RCCL wants to go after.

 

As far as reducing/eliminating bar wait service around the pool (used to be there were waiters with trays of drinks), well of course! With many/most/all people on a drink package, why in the world would they deliver drinks to you in your lounge chair? That's not a profitable model :-)

 

The number of DL, DL+, etc have grown and the lounges are too crowded so often. This has changed from a nice "thank you for your repeat business" in the form of "have a drink or two before dinner, on us" to, for so many people, an "I'm entitled to sit in the lounge for 3 hours each evening and have what I want". First vouchers, to train D, D+ to drink elsewhere, reducing lounge crowding, then, the all-inclusive model.

 

It's just business, folks.

 

Mary

[kruzerci]

In my opinion too much of the base product has been ground down, rounded off, eroded, chipped away, or otherwise eschewed. As new cruisers are brought in they never know what they are missing and never think to ask for restoration of prior services and niceties because, and I mean this as nicely as possible, they simply don't know better. So maybe the current base product is a great value for a new cruiser, but for a seasoned cruiser that value has eroded. Eliminate the perks and the value proposition dwindles further. It's unfortunate. The cutbacks have all been in the areas that have made cruising distinct and different from land based resorts for me and if it continues there won't be compelling reasons to choose a cruise over a land based resort.

 

Well said.

[Cruzin-K]

First vouchers, to train D, D+ to drink elsewhere, reducing lounge crowding, then, the all-inclusive model.

 

It's just business, folks.

 

Mary

 

woof!

 

:p

[robandana]

Without perks it diminishes the value. Each of the perks I can ascribe a dollar amount to and figure out what they are worth as a savings versus going on a different line to have a comparable experience. Many times I've concluded that the dollar value of those perks sways the scale towards Royal.

 

Is the base product, without perks, still a good all around value? Well, it was a lot easier to say yes to that in 2005 than it is in 2015. In my opinion too much of the base product has been ground down, rounded off, eroded, chipped away, or otherwise eschewed. As new cruisers are brought in they never know what they are missing and never think to ask for restoration of prior services and niceties because, and I mean this as nicely as possible, they simply don't know better. So maybe the current base product is a great value for a new cruiser, but for a seasoned cruiser that value has eroded. Eliminate the perks and the value proposition dwindles further. It's unfortunate. The cutbacks have all been in the areas that have made cruising distinct and different from land based resorts for me and if it continues there won't be compelling reasons to choose a cruise over a land based resort.

 

Well said!

[cruisingsince94]

Without perks it diminishes the value. Each of the perks I can ascribe a dollar amount to and figure out what they are worth as a savings versus going on a different line to have a comparable experience. Many times I've concluded that the dollar value of those perks sways the scale towards Royal.

 

Is the base product, without perks, still a good all around value? Well, it was a lot easier to say yes to that in 2005 than it is in 2015. In my opinion too much of the base product has been ground down, rounded off, eroded, chipped away, or otherwise eschewed. As new cruisers are brought in they never know what they are missing and never think to ask for restoration of prior services and niceties because, and I mean this as nicely as possible, they simply don't know better. So maybe the current base product is a great value for a new cruiser, but for a seasoned cruiser that value has eroded. Eliminate the perks and the value proposition dwindles further. It's unfortunate. The cutbacks have all been in the areas that have made cruising distinct and different from land based resorts for me and if it continues there won't be compelling reasons to choose a cruise over a land based resort.

 

 

Well said. I agree with you.

[A2Mich]

Without perks it diminishes the value. Each of the perks I can ascribe a dollar amount to and figure out what they are worth as a savings versus going on a different line to have a comparable experience. Many times I've concluded that the dollar value of those perks sways the scale towards Royal.

 

Is the base product, without perks, still a good all around value? Well, it was a lot easier to say yes to that in 2005 than it is in 2015. In my opinion too much of the base product has been ground down, rounded off, eroded, chipped away, or otherwise eschewed. As new cruisers are brought in they never know what they are missing and never think to ask for restoration of prior services and niceties because, and I mean this as nicely as possible, they simply don't know better. So maybe the current base product is a great value for a new cruiser, but for a seasoned cruiser that value has eroded. Eliminate the perks and the value proposition dwindles further. It's unfortunate. The cutbacks have all been in the areas that have made cruising distinct and different from land based resorts for me and if it continues there won't be compelling reasons to choose a cruise over a land based resort.

 

 

As said by others--well said. I'm surprised that these types of comments have been accepted so well over here. I stated basically the same thing on the Carnival boards and got blasted up one side and down the other. Comments along the lines of "well not all cruisers long for the days of the Titanic," or, "well, obviously if you can't accept change than you should stay home," or, "well, that's business." I don't really get so upset that people make comments like that per se, what irritates me is the amount of complacency many people have to prices going up, while the value of what you receive becomes less and less. That's what really worried me over there. So many people simply willing to pay, pay, pay, pay for every single thing on an a la carte basis, in addition to their already increased base fares. I'm glad that some people actually understand that what we get now is NOT what we received years ago, and that some people actually value their hard earned dollars--which didn't seem to be the case over there. I think the real issue is that some people either don't know how much they're really spending, as its a bit here, a bit there, a bit more for this, a bit more for that, or these people have grown up more recently where we have become so used to paying separately for everything, that it's simply second nature.

[kruzerci]

I don't really get so upset that people make comments like that per se, what irritates me is the amount of complacency many people have to prices going up, while the value of what you receive becomes less and less. That's what really worried me over there.

 

 

Exactly. And while there is a visibly group that is aware and adverse to the decrease in quality and increase in price. Unfortunately it seems that an alarming number of people are quite literally willing to accept Holiday Inn quality at Westin prices.

 

Up until a couple of years ago, Royal Caribbean was seen as a mainstream with a reputation for quality a notch above Carnival and Norwegian. Now, aside from ship design itself, it appears they (un)successfully lowered themselves right down to the others.

 

There are probably few people who have followed and studied the financials of the cruise as in depth as I have, partly due to my profession. It's fascinating how short-sighted the cruise lines are/have always been. Earnings are through the roof at the moment, but as soon as the next round of higher fuel prices and economic uncertainty hits again, Royal Caribbean will be in a tight spot with less competitive advantage over the others as they did the last time and less of the loyalists that fill the ships on those "rainy days".

 

Just sayin'.

[DreamingBig1]

RCI's newest promotion is hardly giving the alcohol away. In order to take advantage of the buy one beverage package get the next one half off, you have to pay full price for the cabin.

 

So your really not saving anything at all, and basically buying the UBP at full price.

 

I rather not have all the pricing games. Just give me the straight story. I already decided that we are sailing the Oasis, it just became a matter of how.

 

I think the fact that people can place a deposit down at first and pay over time, allows RCI (and other cruise lines) to do pricing gimmicks. People realize they are paying more than they should, but they have a long time to pay it off and budget for it.

Edited March 18, 2015 by DreamingBig1

[kruzerci]

 

 

 

I think the fact that people can place a deposit down at first and pay over time, allows RCI (and other cruise lines) to do pricing gimmicks. People realize they are paying more than they should, but they have a long time to pay it off and budget for it.

 

 

To be honest, I don't think even a fraction of passengers think about it this logically. I think the vast majority truly believe they are getting a good deal with these pathetic pricing games. It's just sad and it's seriously deceptive.

[robandana]

Exactly. And while there is a visibly group that is aware and adverse to the decrease in quality and increase in price. Unfortunately it seems that an alarming number of people are quite literally willing to accept Holiday Inn quality at Westin prices.

 

Up until a couple of years ago, Royal Caribbean was seen as a mainstream with a reputation for quality a notch above Carnival and Norwegian. Now, aside from ship design itself, it appears they (un)successfully lowered themselves right down to the others.

 

There are probably few people who have followed and studied the financials of the cruise as in depth as I have, partly due to my profession. It's fascinating how short-sighted the cruise lines are/have always been. Earnings are through the roof at the moment, but as soon as the next round of higher fuel prices and economic uncertainty hits again, Royal Caribbean will be in a tight spot with less competitive advantage over the others as they did the last time and less of the loyalists that fill the ships on those "rainy days".

 

Just sayin'.

 

I totally agree with you!

[Mary loves to travel]

To be honest, I don't think even a fraction of passengers think about it this logically. I think the vast majority truly believe they are getting a good deal with these pathetic pricing games. It's just sad and it's seriously deceptive.

 

yep. and these are all the same folks who proudly state that they "just don't 'get' math - and who needs it anyway?"

 

who indeed.

 

Mary

[DreamingBig1]

To be honest, I don't think even a fraction of passengers think about it this logically. I think the vast majority truly believe they are getting a good deal with these pathetic pricing games. It's just sad and it's seriously deceptive.

 

Good point. I guess I am hoping people have common sense.

[JasonTehGreat]

I'll be on Princess in 11 days lol

[rcclfanbp]

OK, at a high-level, I believe I generally get it:

 

 

 

Increased Revenues + Reduced Expenses = More Profits/Shareholder Value

 

 

Increase Revenues by (not all inclusive):

 

- increasing capacity (new ships built to economic scale)

 

- selling more cruise fares in existing and emerging growth markets (e.g., Asia, South America, etc.)

 

> RCI sales are mostly from an older, value-driven demographic that spends cautiously onboard (try to maintain this group)

 

> capture new "vacationing" cruisers (25 - 40 years of age) who are less cost-conscious (a focus area)

 

> harness opportunities in markets with rising middle/affluent classes that love spending (exuberant consumerism and a high focus area)

 

> redefine customer expectations to realistically balance the customer satisfaction/value proposition (now here is the rub for many)

 

> growth of new high-spending customers more than offsets loss of some loyal customers (the jury is out on this)

 

- using innovative marketing techniques that bundle products/services (buyer beware)

 

- increasing cruise reservation spending (e.g., specialty dining, spa treatments, drinks, shore excursions, onboard activities, etc.)

 

 

 

Reduce Expenses by (not all inclusive):

 

- aggressively managing construction/financing costs (new ships are very expensive)

 

- aggressively managing fuel costs (e.g., fuel hedging contracts, fuel surcharges, onboard consumption conservation, etc.)

 

- spending judiciously on food/alcohol (using less costly alternatives for complimentary dining)

 

- increasing employee productivity (do more with less staff)

 

- limiting entertainment venues

 

- reducing costs of amenities (i.e., loyalty perks and all the little extras of the past)

 

 

All of these things "appear" to be happening now, so the cruise line is truly in transition. So what is the end "product/service"? I do not know the answer today, and of course, we all like "certainty".

 

 

I find it difficult to "firmly" recommend a product/service that I do not understand. So any recommendation must come with the caveats others have mentioned in this thread. RCI and Celebrity are my preferred lines, but I am open to other options.

[cjdixon4]

OK, at a high-level, I believe I generally get it:

 

 

 

Increased Revenues + Reduced Expenses = More Profits/Shareholder Value

 

 

Increase Revenues by (not all inclusive):

 

- increasing capacity (new ships built to economic scale)

 

- selling more cruise fares in existing and emerging growth markets (e.g., Asia, South America, etc.)

 

> RCI sales are mostly from an older, value-driven demographic that spends cautiously onboard (try to maintain this group)

 

> capture new "vacationing" cruisers (25 - 40 years of age) who are less cost-conscious (a focus area)

 

> harness opportunities in markets with rising middle/affluent classes that love spending (exuberant consumerism and a high focus area)

 

> redefine customer expectations to realistically balance the customer satisfaction/value proposition (now here is the rub for many)

 

> growth of new high-spending customers more than offsets loss of some loyal customers (the jury is out on this)

 

- using innovative marketing techniques that bundle products/services (buyer beware)

 

- increasing cruise reservation spending (e.g., specialty dining, spa treatments, drinks, shore excursions, onboard activities, etc.)

 

 

 

Reduce Expenses by (not all inclusive):

 

- aggressively managing construction/financing costs (new ships are very expensive)

 

- aggressively managing fuel costs (e.g., fuel hedging contracts, fuel surcharges, onboard consumption conservation, etc.)

 

- spending judiciously on food/alcohol (using less costly alternatives for complimentary dining)

 

- increasing employee productivity (do more with less staff)

 

- limiting entertainment venues

 

- reducing costs of amenities (i.e., loyalty perks and all the little extras of the past)

 

 

All of these things "appear" to be happening now, so the cruise line is truly in transition. So what is the end "product/service"? I do not know the answer today, and of course, we all like "certainty".

 

 

I find it difficult to "firmly" recommend a product/service that I do not understand. So any recommendation must come with the caveats others have mentioned in this thread. RCI and Celebrity are my preferred lines, but I am open to other options.

 

rcclfanbp-

Whoaaa...if you put this on an Excel spreadsheet, it would be like a day in the office! You just took all the "fun" out of my next cruise... :eek: Joking of course, LOL!

[mattwright]

Sadly, you can add me to the list of those who is jumping ship... for awhile, at least. My wife and I are D+, but as we got into planning a cruise for early next year with her parents and some of her parents' friends, we realized it was time for a change of scenery.

 

We've booked the Norwegian Escape for that cruise, and we're looking at Celebrity Reflection for later that year. I think it'll be good to see the latest & greatest ships from various other lines and then see if one of them is a better fit for us going forward, or if we realize later that we want to come back "home" to Royal Caribbean.

[davekathy]

Sadly, you can add me to the list of those who is jumping ship... for awhile, at least. My wife and I are D+, but as we got into planning a cruise for early next year with her parents and some of her parents' friends, we realized it was time for a change of scenery.

 

We've booked the Norwegian Escape for that cruise, and we're looking at Celebrity Reflection for later that year. I think it'll be good to see the latest & greatest ships from various other lines and then see if one of them is a better fit for us going forward, or if we realize later that we want to come back "home" to Royal Caribbean.

 

Variety is the spice of life.

[poncho1973]

the port fees are cheaper for the same ports

 

This makes me chuckle.

[LuckiStac13*Majesty*]

Without perks it diminishes the value. Each of the perks I can ascribe a dollar amount to and figure out what they are worth as a savings versus going on a different line to have a comparable experience. Many times I've concluded that the dollar value of those perks sways the scale towards Royal.

 

Is the base product, without perks, still a good all around value? Well, it was a lot easier to say yes to that in 2005 than it is in 2015. In my opinion too much of the base product has been ground down, rounded off, eroded, chipped away, or otherwise eschewed. As new cruisers are brought in they never know what they are missing and never think to ask for restoration of prior services and niceties because, and I mean this as nicely as possible, they simply don't know better. So maybe the current base product is a great value for a new cruiser, but for a seasoned cruiser that value has eroded. Eliminate the perks and the value proposition dwindles further. It's unfortunate. The cutbacks have all been in the areas that have made cruising distinct and different from land based resorts for me and if it continues there won't be compelling reasons to choose a cruise over a land based resort.

 

Exactly. And while there is a visibly group that is aware and adverse to the decrease in quality and increase in price. Unfortunately it seems that an alarming number of people are quite literally willing to accept Holiday Inn quality at Westin prices.

 

Up until a couple of years ago, Royal Caribbean was seen as a mainstream with a reputation for quality a notch above Carnival and Norwegian. Now, aside from ship design itself, it appears they (un)successfully lowered themselves right down to the others.

 

There are probably few people who have followed and studied the financials of the cruise as in depth as I have, partly due to my profession. It's fascinating how short-sighted the cruise lines are/have always been. Earnings are through the roof at the moment, but as soon as the next round of higher fuel prices and economic uncertainty hits again, Royal Caribbean will be in a tight spot with less competitive advantage over the others as they did the last time and less of the loyalists that fill the ships on those "rainy days".

 

Just sayin'.

 

With you guys 100%! Sometimes I wish we had a "like" button here on CC.

[davidlj3]

OK here's an opinion from a total cruise newb!! Last week I just booked our first cruise. I didn't pay attention to how the sale was worded. I was just looking at bottom line price. I had a certain week we had to go and a certain port we had to sail from. That limited my cruises of course, but RC was cheaper than Carnival. Although considering the Carnival was 8 days and RC was 7 you could probably say the price was even. Like I said we have never been on a ship before so we won't see how service is different from say 5 years ago or how much this would have cost a year ago. Very excited to see what cruising is all about.

[Mary loves to travel]

OK here's an opinion from a total cruise newb!! Last week I just booked our first cruise. I didn't pay attention to how the sale was worded. I was just looking at bottom line price. I had a certain week we had to go and a certain port we had to sail from. That limited my cruises of course, but RC was cheaper than Carnival. Although considering the Carnival was 8 days and RC was 7 you could probably say the price was even. Like I said we have never been on a ship before so we won't see how service is different from say 5 years ago or how much this would have cost a year ago. Very excited to see what cruising is all about.

 

You'll have fun and I think still be "wow'ed!". You are exactly the new market that RCCL is going after.

 

I haven't cruised for a couple of years, but still looking forward to it. some things change, but I hope more is the same. We shall see, although I don't have a cruise on the books so it may be awhile before I find out :-)

[deliver42]

Royal is still my favorite line, but the recent prices are crazy. I have booked the new Carnival Vista for less than an older RCCL ship with a balcony.The next cruise might be the new MSC ship coming in the fall, 2017, depending on their prices. I'm also considering Celebrity, or NCL, though NCL's prices for the Escape are no bargain either. A December cruise is $2600.00 for 2 on a balcony. My Carnival for March,2017, was $2063.00 for a Havana Cabana.

[brotheranddoramae]

I was so glad to find this thread. I just got off the Navigator of the Seas on Sunday and was so disappointed. It was my first cruise being a Diamond member. I'm a solo traveler and it took a while to reach Diamond. I received a bag of butter cookies for reaching this level. Butter cookies, really? I received that last year as an Emerald. My expectations before the cruise were much more than a bag of cookies only to be so discouraged. But it's like what was said above, first time cruisers don't know what cutbacks they have taken. My first cruise was on Monarch of the Seas. There was always a nice gift waiting in your room upon arrival. Some of the cut backs are minor but they all add up to the appreciation of being loyal is not worth it. Some of the things I've noticed are; no more chocolates on your pillow, Crown and Anchor gifts, ability to watch full length movies in the room without paying for them, ordering selective items being served in the Dining room for room service, etc..

The chatter on the ship in the Diamond Lounge and around the ship was of how bad it is really getting. I'm booked in GS for next year but I am really considering if it is worth it any more. Well, sorry for venting but it was great to know I'm not the only one feeling this way.

Edited October 14, 2015 by brotheranddoramae