So What Are All the Changes Anyway....?

[njhorseman]

There you go again about the contract that you claim includes a "change whatever they want clause" ... yet you refuse to direct us to this clause.

 

Why exactly is that?

 

If you think it's such an important thing for us all to know, share it with us!

 

The exact part of the contract that states that they can "change whatever they want."

 

And go!

 

Since you insist:

 

http://www.ncl.com/sites/default/files/Guest_Ticket_Contract_03_2014.pdf

 

We'll start with paragraph 2, which clearly states that the contract constitutes the entire agreement between the Guest and Carrier and supersedes and excludes any prior representations made including brochures, advertisements and promotional materials. What this means is that it doesn't matter if the website said "free room service" (for example) when you booked your cruise...if the contract doesn't say "free room service", which it doesn't, then "free room service" isn't a contractual obligation.

 

2. The Contract: The Guest agrees that this Contract governs the relationship between the Guest and the Carrier, regardless of the Guest's age, whether the Guest purchased the ticket on his or her own behalf, and/or whether the ticket has been held and/or presented by another person on behalf of the Guest. The Guest agrees that, except as expressly provided herein, this Contract constitutes the entire agreement between the Guest and Carrier, and shall supersede and exclude any prior representations that may have been made in relation to the cruise to the Guest or anyone representing him/her by anyone, including but not limited to anything stated in the Carrier's brochures, advertisements, and other promotional materials, by Norwegian Cruise Line or NCL America employees or by third persons such astravel agents. In the event of a direct conflict between a provision of this Contract and a provision of the

Cruise Industry Passenger Bill of Rights (PBOR) in effect at the time of booking, the PBOR controls. No

person other than the person(s) named in the Ticket Contract can use the Ticket Contract without the

express written agreement of the Carrier. This Contract is only valid for the cruise specified in the

accompanying ticket. The terms herein shall be binding upon payment of the cruise fare by the Guest and

Guest accepts and agrees to the terms upon presenting this Contract to the Carrier for boarding even if

no payment of the cruise fare has been made. The rights, defenses, immunities and limitations of liability

set forth herein shall inure to the benefit of the Carrier and all concessionaires, independent contractors

or other service providers; and affiliated or related companies, parents, subsidiaries, successors, assigns

or fictitiously named entities; all suppliers, shipbuilders, component part manufacturers; and its or their

owners, operators, managers, charterers, agents, pilots, officers, crew and employees.

 

Then let's look at paragraph 3., which defines what is included in your fare. You'll see that free room service is not included, nor are service charges. What's included is your transportation on the ship, full board and ordinary vessel food. What that means is you're entitled to your cabin and three meals a day for your fare, but there's no guarantee that the included food has to be served in any particular manner or from any particular restaurant. That's all you're guaranteed by contract.

 

3. Terms of Fare:

(a) Items Included in Fare: The fare paid by the Guest for this ticket includes transportation on the vessel named herein, full board, and ordinary vessel food, but does not include beer, wine, spirits, sodas or mineral waters, nor expenses incurred for other incidental or personal services/purchases. Fares do not include certain taxes, fees, port expenses and charges imposed by governmental or quasi governmental

authorities, including port authorities, service charges or the cost of the fuel supplement, nor any security surcharges or similar incidental surcharges, for which passengers will be charged.

[njhorseman]

From a UK/European perspective - a contract term that is unfair, unconscionable, tries to avoid a statutory liability or is illegal is void.

 

In layman's terms - a company can write whatever they like into a contract. The legislation and the courts can disregard those terms in certain circumstances.

 

Statements that the contract is all-encompassing and is the last word are just plain wrong.

 

OK, when a court of law in the US or Europe, or other authority such as a state attorney general in the US declares the cruise lines' contracts to be illegal, then they'll have to change them. Until then the cruise lines are free to enforce their contracts as they are currently written.

 

It's really easy for you to say "they can't do that, it's unfair and unconscionable". It's not as easy to get a court to agree with what you're saying and until a court does, you're just blowing smoke into the wind.

[NLH Arizona]

Since you insist:

 

http://www.ncl.com/sites/default/files/Guest_Ticket_Contract_03_2014.pdf

 

We'll start with paragraph 2, which clearly states that the contract constitutes the entire agreement between the Guest and Carrier and supersedes and excludes any prior representations made including brochures, advertisements and promotional materials. What this means is that it doesn't matter if the website said "free room service" (for example) when you booked your cruise...if the contract doesn't say "free room service", which it doesn't, then "free room service" isn't a contractual obligation.

 

2. The Contract: The Guest agrees that this Contract governs the relationship between the Guest and the Carrier, regardless of the Guest's age, whether the Guest purchased the ticket on his or her own behalf, and/or whether the ticket has been held and/or presented by another person on behalf of the Guest. The Guest agrees that, except as expressly provided herein, this Contract constitutes the entire agreement between the Guest and Carrier, and shall supersede and exclude any prior representations that may have been made in relation to the cruise to the Guest or anyone representing him/her by anyone, including but not limited to anything stated in the Carrier's brochures, advertisements, and other promotional materials, by Norwegian Cruise Line or NCL America employees or by third persons such astravel agents. In the event of a direct conflict between a provision of this Contract and a provision of the

Cruise Industry Passenger Bill of Rights (PBOR) in effect at the time of booking, the PBOR controls. No

person other than the person(s) named in the Ticket Contract can use the Ticket Contract without the

express written agreement of the Carrier. This Contract is only valid for the cruise specified in the

accompanying ticket. The terms herein shall be binding upon payment of the cruise fare by the Guest and

Guest accepts and agrees to the terms upon presenting this Contract to the Carrier for boarding even if

no payment of the cruise fare has been made. The rights, defenses, immunities and limitations of liability

set forth herein shall inure to the benefit of the Carrier and all concessionaires, independent contractors

or other service providers; and affiliated or related companies, parents, subsidiaries, successors, assigns

or fictitiously named entities; all suppliers, shipbuilders, component part manufacturers; and its or their

owners, operators, managers, charterers, agents, pilots, officers, crew and employees.

 

Then let's look at paragraph 3., which defines what is included in your fare. You'll see that free room service is not included, nor are service charges. What's included is your transportation on the ship, full board and ordinary vessel food. What that means is you're entitled to your cabin and three meals a day for your fare, but there's no guarantee that the included food has to be served in any particular manner or from any particular restaurant. That's all you're guaranteed by contract.

 

3. Terms of Fare:

(a) Items Included in Fare: The fare paid by the Guest for this ticket includes transportation on the vessel named herein, full board, and ordinary vessel food, but does not include beer, wine, spirits, sodas or mineral waters, nor expenses incurred for other incidental or personal services/purchases. Fares do not include certain taxes, fees, port expenses and charges imposed by governmental or quasi governmental

authorities, including port authorities, service charges or the cost of the fuel supplement, nor any security surcharges or similar incidental surcharges, for which passengers will be charged.

Am I clear in thinking that the only things that we are guaranteed with our cruise fare is transportation on the ship, full board (which means breakfast, lunch and dinner) and ordinary vessel food and that is it?

[njhorseman]

Am I clear in thinking that the only things that we are guaranteed with our cruise fare is transportation on the ship, full board (which means breakfast, lunch and dinner) and ordinary vessel food and that is it?

 

That's what the contract says in a nutshell. Even your itinerary isn't guaranteed.

[NLH Arizona]

That's what the contract says in a nutshell. Even your itinerary isn't guaranteed.

Thanks, that is what some of us have been saying on here for some time, but were told we were wrong. Edited May 2, 2015 by NLH Arizona

[glittergal1]

They seem to be able to change whatever they want and if we dont like it its tough , They have changed the port schedule for 3 of Epics western med ports we now lose 3 hours over 2 ports and another port is now 7-5 and not 8-6 a bit annoying as not much point getting off at 7am what will be open at 7am?

 

oh and no reason has been given for the port changes

[SteveH2508]

Very different to the UK one (which interestingly enough still contains the DSC at $12 per day):D.

 

http://www.ncl.co.uk/helpful-information/faqs/#!/helpful-information/booking-conditions/booking-conditions-2015-16-17/

[SissasMomE]

They seem to be able to change whatever they want and if we dont like it its tough , They have changed the port schedule for 3 of Epics western med ports we now lose 3 hours over 2 ports and another port is now 7-5 and not 8-6 a bit annoying as not much point getting off at 7am what will be open at 7am?

 

oh and no reason has been given for the port changes

 

You can't help the port changes. They certainly aren't sitting behind a closed door thinking which port they can remove to tick off the passengers! It's always for a reason, and I'm ok with the Captain making that decision for me.

[njhorseman]

Very different to the UK one (which interestingly enough still contains the DSC at $12 per day):D.

 

http://www.ncl.co.uk/helpful-information/faqs/#!/helpful-information/booking-conditions/booking-conditions-2015-16-17/

 

The person to whom I was replying lists their location as Florida. I cited the U.S. contract because presumably that is the contract governing their NCL cruise(s).

 

The contract and laws in the UK and EU are different.

[SissasMomE]

I see the contract fine and dandy but that doesn't excuse NCL from doing the wrong thing by not informing it's customers. Would it have been that hard to send out an email a letter God forbid a message on their website. Even all of us who disagree cannot disagree with that being wrong. Yes they can change whatever they please but let us know. That's all I ever thought about any of these changes. Most don't affect me but thats not the point.

 

 

Agreed. It would have been better received, IMO, had they made an announcement rather than just sneaking it in like they did.

[njhorseman]

Agreed. It would have been better received, IMO, had they made an announcement rather than just sneaking it in like they did.

 

I think that is what many of us have said all along and that is NCL did a poor job of rolling out the changes, but had every right to make them, but all along we were told we were wrong.

 

I agree. At the end of the day the real issue isn't what they did, it's how they did it.

[SissasMomE]

I agree. At the end of the day the real issue isn't what they did, it's how they did it.

 

Yes - 100%!

[SteveH2508]

The person to whom I was replying lists their location as Florida. I cited the U.S. contract because presumably that is the contract governing their NCL cruise(s).

 

The contract and laws in the UK and EU are different.

 

Exactly! NCL and their highly-paid suits forgot (chose to ignore:rolleyes:) the simple, basic fact that they are dealing not only with US pax and laws but UK/EU pax and laws as well (and the simple, basic premise of treating your customers with respect and not using them for cockamamie tests).:D

Edited May 2, 2015 by SteveH2508

[glittergal1]

You can't help the port changes. They certainly aren't sitting behind a closed door thinking which port they can remove to tick off the passengers! It's always for a reason, and I'm ok with the Captain making that decision for me.

 

But that's the thing we haven't been given a reason , and along with all of the other changes this is the straw that broke the camels back

[Demonyte]

Someone mentioned that the total price of their vacation had gone up 20 percent thanks to these changes. That seems... pretty hard to believe. Not saying it's not true, simply a bit skeptical.

 

 

That was me and I stand by what I said - except that I didn't say "total price of vacation" but "onboard spending" or something like that, I don't even compare the base price of the cruise here.

 

Some examples from the bar:

 

Well rum and mixer (my drink of choice usually), previously $5.75 + 15% = $6.61, now $6.95 + 18% = $8.20 - raise of 24%.

 

Long island ice tea, previously $8.00 + 15% = $9.20, now $9.50 + 18 % = $11.21 - raise of 22%.

 

If I compared all our onboard purchases between our two last cruises on Jade (pre and post changes), I could list these on and on, not to mention changes with speciality dining (18% extra charge that was previously included) and service charge (25% raise for suites).

 

Edit: Fixed percentages to correct ones - that are even higher than my original calculations.

Edited May 2, 2015 by Demonyte

[motleyfan]

That was me and I stand by what I said - except that I didn't say "total price of vacation" but "onboard spending" or something like that, I don't even compare the base price of the cruise here.

 

Some examples from the bar:

 

Well rum and mixer (my drink of choice usually), previously $5.75 + 15% = $6.61, now $6.95 + 18% = $8.20 - raise of 24%.

 

Long island ice tea, previously $8.00 + 15% = $9.20, now $9.50 + 18 % = $11.21 - raise of 22%.

 

If I compared all our onboard purchases between our two last cruises on Jade (pre and post changes), I could list these on and on, not to mention changes with speciality dining (18% extra charge that was previously included) and service charge (25% raise for suites).

 

Edit: Fixed percentages to correct ones - that are even higher than my original calculations.

 

Just get the alcohol package

[SissasMomE]

Just for the heck of it I re-priced my cruise for next year, now that the beverage package is no longer an option. It's a whole $22 cheaper. Needless to say, I'm happy with the deal I got by booking back then. Not so sure these fares are coming down anytime soon, no matter what they take away.

Edited May 2, 2015 by SissasMomE

[Demonyte]

Just get the alcohol package

 

 

You are missing the point. Also even though while most of our onboard spending is generated from the bars, it's not enough for us to pay even more for the UBP.

 

Also, our last cruise was 11 nights - no way would have I paid over $2800 for UBP for the four of us (two generations sharing a 2br suite) after these raises just appeared without notice.

 

We'll be having UBP as a promo perk for our Jan 2016 cruise - without it, I'd probably have gone through the trouble and convinced our group to cancel and book a similar cruise somewhere else.

Edited May 3, 2015 by Demonyte

[SissasMomE]

You are missing the point. Also even though while most of our onboard spending is generated from the bars, it's not enough for us to pay even more for the UBP.

 

Also, our last cruise was 11 nights - no way would have I paid over $2800 for UBP for the four of us (two generations sharing a 2br suite) after these raises just appeared without notice.

 

We'll be having UBP as a promo perk for our Jan 2016 cruise - without it, I'd probably have gone through the trouble and convinced our group to cancel and book a similar cruise somewhere else.

 

Ditto! I admit, I am a little worried. I "convinced" some friends to come on this cruise WAY before all of this nonsense started. They are seasoned cruisers, and not going to be happy with the nickel and diming!

[kessdarln]

Unfortunately, for some people they think NCL owes them the world and more when they don't. When they realize that NCL is no better than other cruise lines and even other types of businesses when it comes to making profits / saving money - then they will have an epiphany; which is sadly never going to happen especially on this board......

 

I see this often on other social media... for example, people don't buy travel insurance and then trash NCL for not refunding their money when they can't cruise for a variety of real life reasons. I swear by travel insurance and recently had to use it. Never travel without it, ESPECIALLY out in the middle of the ocean :eek:

[kessdarln]

You are missing the point. Also even though while most of our onboard spending is generated from the bars, it's not enough for us to pay even more for the UBP.

 

Also, our last cruise was 11 nights - no way would have I paid over $2800 for UBP for the four of us (two generations sharing a 2br suite) after these raises just appeared without notice.

 

We'll be having UBP as a promo perk for our Jan 2016 cruise - without it, I'd probably have gone through the trouble and convinced our group to cancel and book a similar cruise somewhere else.

 

Do other cruises charge less for their drinks? How about the cost of the cruise per person elsewhere? I've priced out some other cruises like Celebrity, Princess and Holland and their cabin prices are higher, even when they offer free drinks it seems a lot higher. I think Carnival prices are lower than NCL but I did 1 cruise on Carnival and we had no water for an entire day... no drinking water, no toilets, no showers. :eek:

[Starrgazer50]

Regarding not being able to take food out of the restaurants, that is true. I went to Blue Lagoon for some Buf.Wings to-go and was told they are no longer able to do that. Food had to be eaten in the venue. What I eventually did was sit, order a 10 piece, ate 4, covered my remaining wings with the napkin, left a tip and walked out with my wings. In the buffet I asked for a tray and took food from the buffet to my cabin. They don't know if you're taking food to someone who can't leave the cabin or if you don't feel physically well to sit and eat.:rolleyes:

[JOLTnPEST]

Ditto! I admit, I am a little worried. I "convinced" some friends to come on this cruise WAY before all of this nonsense started. They are seasoned cruisers, and not going to be happy with the nickel and diming!

 

The funny thing is you go to the forums of the other cruise lines and everyone thinks they are being nickel and dimed.

[SissasMomE]

The funny thing is you go to the forums of the other cruise lines and everyone thinks they are being nickel and dimed.

 

Ha - true! I do read the same thing on the Royal and Princess forums lol

[cruisebie]

The funny thing is you go to the forums of the other cruise lines and everyone thinks they are being nickel and dimed.

 

True. All cruise lines do it. Only NCL has found a way to take it to the next level.