"Loyalty" in general is a thing of the past

[tea4ular]

Company loyalty (either direction) is a thing of the past and has been for quite a while (more than a decade). No more gold watches upon retirement, in fact you're lucky if you didn't get swept up in a wave of lay-offs as a "senior" staff member, in favor of a young buck fresh out of college, willing to work for 1/3 of what you were making; no more 100% paid health insurance from your employer (no out of pocket cost for you OR your family!).

 

I'm a well-known coffee company "card holder" ("loyalty" card) and they are constantly changing the "perks" (I used to get free soy milk in my beverages, but that went away). Did I get mad and vow to "never go there again!"? No. Why? Because "free" soy milk in my beverage did not make or break why I go there.

 

I've seen Carnival change their "loyalty" program so many times I don't even know anymore WHAT the "perks" are. I think I'm gold (I'm not sure because THAT changed too a few years ago!). Does it make me mad and vow to "never sail them again!"? No. Why? Because "free" drink, pin, party, water, whatever ISN'T the reason I sail.

 

I remember the "free" rum twizzlers (I think that's what they were called) at the "past guest" parties. I remember the elaborate midnight buffet (I mean ELABORATE!) where I would wake my kid up to go - and how we used to go early enough to take photos of the amazing details of items on display before we all ravaged them. I remember the excitement of getting REAL cruise documents in the mail in a big fat envelope with luggage tags that were pre-printed! I even remember writing postcards (free from the purser's desk) and leaving them at the purser's desk to get a Carnival postmark (and they always arrived well after we were back home!) - I remember when it was called a "purser's desk" not "guest services". Those are all gone too (sorry, if some of you never got to experience those things, they really were fantastic!). Does that make me mad and vow to "never sail them again!"? No.

 

You know what? The cruise lines remember when WE used to actually dress up on Cruise Elegant night. They remember when WE used to graciously put our cash money into tip envelopes and actually show up on the last night and hand them out, sincerely thanking the staff members who lovingly took great care of us time and time again. WE have changed too!

 

There are many options of how to spend your money for rest and relaxation. If Carnival doesn't float your boat (see what I did there?) do something else (just like TV, don't like what's on, change the channel, or turn it off). For the price of one day at Disneyland for a family of 4, we can sail for a week in the Mexican Riviera. Are either of these experiences perfect? Nope. Are they "good enough" to have some fun, get away from phones, work, in-laws, whatever and have some family/couple time, read a book, catch up on sleep? YES, YES, YES!

 

Now I have to get off my soap box - I've got work to do so I can pay off my upcoming trip!

[cruzeluver]

Awesome!:D:D

[figdu]

 

You know what? They remember when WE used to graciously put our cash money into tip envelopes and actually show up on the last night and hand them out, sincerely thanking the staff members who lovingly took great care of us time and time again. WE have changed too!

 

I still do this every time but I suspect that is a minority action at this point.

[Lurkyloo]

I still do this every time but I suspect that is a minority action at this point.

 

We still do it too... We leave the mandated tips on our cards and will write out an nice "Thank you note" to our Steward, the assistant Steward, the Main Waiter and the assistant Waiter at our table and enclose some extra cash.

[Topo Gigio]

Being a Diamond Plus member on Royal Caribbean, I can tell you that royalty is not completely something of the past in the cruise industry!

[jimbo5544]

Being a Diamond Plus member on Royal Caribbean, I can tell you that royalty is not completely something of the past in the cruise industry!

 

 

Maybe but what about all the levels until you get there? When they devalued their loyalty program the moaning and groaning on their boards made these pale in comparison. Point being, are all Reid return guests paying for that loyalty? Add to it the cast provisions they have for their Diamond plus members it is way more one sided than Carnival's. I guess the current version for the diamond Plus (which my son in law is btw) price is paid for at everyone else expense.

Edited May 8, 2015 by jimbo5544

[gwsster]

Great perspective. Thanks for sharing.

 

 

Company loyalty (either direction) is a thing of the past and has been for quite a while (more than a decade). No more gold watches upon retirement, in fact you're lucky if you didn't get swept up in a wave of lay-offs as a "senior" staff member, in favor of a young buck fresh out of college, willing to work for 1/3 of what you were making; no more 100% paid health insurance from your employer (no out of pocket cost for you OR your family!).

 

I'm a well-known coffee company "card holder" ("loyalty" card) and they are constantly changing the "perks" (I used to get free soy milk in my beverages, but that went away). Did I get mad and vow to "never go there again!"? No. Why? Because "free" soy milk in my beverage did not make or break why I go there.

 

I've seen Carnival change their "loyalty" program so many times I don't even know anymore WHAT the "perks" are. I think I'm gold (I'm not sure because THAT changed too a few years ago!). Does it make me mad and vow to "never sail them again!"? No. Why? Because "free" drink, pin, party, water, whatever ISN'T the reason I sail.

 

I remember the "free" rum twizzlers (I think that's what they were called) at the "past guest" parties. I remember the elaborate midnight buffet (I mean ELABORATE!) where I would wake my kid up to go - and how we used to go early enough to take photos of the amazing details of items on display before we all ravaged them. I remember the excitement of getting REAL cruise documents in the mail in a big fat envelope with luggage tags that were pre-printed! I even remember writing postcards (free from the purser's desk) and leaving them at the purser's desk to get a Carnival postmark (and they always arrived well after we were back home!) - I remember when it was called a "purser's desk" not "guest services". Those are all gone too (sorry, if some of you never got to experience those things, they really were fantastic!). Does that make me mad and vow to "never sail them again!"? No.

 

You know what? The cruise lines remember when WE used to actually dress up on Cruise Elegant night. They remember when WE used to graciously put our cash money into tip envelopes and actually show up on the last night and hand them out, sincerely thanking the staff members who lovingly took great care of us time and time again. WE have changed too!

 

There are many options of how to spend your money for rest and relaxation. If Carnival doesn't float your boat (see what I did there?) do something else (just like TV, don't like what's on, change the channel, or turn it off). For the price of one day at Disneyland for a family of 4, we can sail for a week in the Mexican Riviera. Are either of these experiences perfect? Nope. Are they "good enough" to have some fun, get away from phones, work, in-laws, whatever and have some family/couple time, read a book, catch up on sleep? YES, YES, YES!

 

Now I have to get off my soap box - I've got work to do so I can pay off my upcoming trip!

[MrMileStoner]

Loyalty that is conditional isn't loyalty. There is no law that it has to be bidirectional.

[makeda]

let me see, I came to cc when people complained about the butter....its always something...yawn, y'all don't own nuthin'...when you do, do what you want!

[A2Mich]

Yet they continue to fill there ships. Price and experience is a lot more important than that loyalty bs and I guarantee you I represent the majority of cruisers when I say black and white are the most important colors to me. It's the color off the boarding pass I print out when I'm paid in full. It's all I need.

 

And GREEN is the most important color to the cruise lines.

[A2Mich]

They are booked up pretty well for this peak season already. Hence forth the 9 day notice of revokation.

 

By the time next season starts selling hard, it will likely be a subject long buried. And, the corporation will have banked a lot to reinvest in new ships and other priorities by slicing the big Gold contingent loyalty perk, and to continue to intice new cruisers to come aboard instead.

 

What would you suggest for the replacement instead?

 

 

Why couldn't they have modeled it after Royal Caribbean/Celebrity? They could offer a handful of free drinks or even a handful of half off drinks, without time and usage restrictions, or as mentioned elsewhere, a token OBC $25 or so, future cruise discounts(even $50-$100), discounted laundry service, maybe a separate "priority" check in (yet not the same as suite/upper tier loyalty) - sort of like a mid grade check in option, discounts at the steakhouse, etc. None of them written in stone, but all simply suggestions. Any of them would have a perceived value for the passenger, yet cost the cruise line very little in real dollars. I agree that they may have needed to do something because the parties were too crowded, but as I've said before, this was 10000% Carnival's fault. If their beancounters didn't do enough research and cost analysis assessments to realize what their real costs would be, they either should not have implemented a loyalty program, or scaled back the perks before they were ever announced. Changing the rules mid-game because they are losing the game says a lot about integrity and morals - specifically that they have none. My feeling is that there is more than one way to make money, yet some people don't agree with that. Most people seem to be of the mindset of spend as little as possible while charging as much as possible. A truly savvy consumer also realizes that greater profits can be made on lower margins at higher volumes. For example, take the same product at two different price points - lets say that you really like this product and Seller A is selling it for $1.00. MInd you, this is a product that you really like and would really like to have. Seller B is offering the same product for $3.00. This product cost both vendors 25 cents. If I buy this product from vendor A, I can get three of them and the seller earned $2.25. Seller B has a potential profit of $2.75 on each sale of one unit. However, at that inflated price, I won't buy because I feel it's overpriced. Seller B now has a minimum of 25 cents invested in the product (and now likely more because there are carrying costs for non-moving inventory). Because I feel the price is too high, they have lost the $2.75 in potential profit because of their greed. Who is making more money so far? Seller A - they're making a lower margin, yet selling in larger volume, and therefore has higher revenue and profits. A smaller margin is better than NO margin. Bottom line, is that sometimes you have to spend money to make money.

 

Honestly, giving away a few drinks at a true cost of about $5-$10 TOTAL may have a perceived value of $50-$100 to the consumer and may actually encourage more onboard spending and also make the consumer feel as if they are worth SOMETHING other than a dollar figure. They could even raise everyone's fare $20-$50 to more than cover their true costs and likely very few people would notice that difference - they would still be earning more in profits by simply doing something that simple. But no, why accept a lower margin when corporate greed dictates otherwise?

[eponym]

Why couldn't they have modeled it after Royal Caribbean/Celebrity? They could offer a handful of free drinks or even a handful of half off drinks, without time and usage restrictions, or as mentioned elsewhere, a token OBC $25 or so, future cruise discounts(even $50-$100), discounted laundry service, maybe a separate "priority" check in (yet not the same as suite/upper tier loyalty) - sort of like a mid grade check in option, discounts at the steakhouse, etc. None of them written in stone, but all simply suggestions. Any of them would have a perceived value for the passenger, yet cost the cruise line very little in real dollars. I agree that they may have needed to do something because the parties were too crowded, but as I've said before, this was 10000% Carnival's fault. If their beancounters didn't do enough research and cost analysis assessments to realize what their real costs would be, they either should not have implemented a loyalty program, or scaled back the perks before they were ever announced. Changing the rules mid-game because they are losing the game says a lot about integrity and morals - specifically that they have none. My feeling is that there is more than one way to make money, yet some people don't agree with that. Most people seem to be of the mindset of spend as little as possible while charging as much as possible. A truly savvy consumer also realizes that greater profits can be made on lower margins at higher volumes. For example, take the same product at two different price points - lets say that you really like this product and Seller A is selling it for $1.00. MInd you, this is a product that you really like and would really like to have. Seller B is offering the same product for $3.00. This product cost both vendors 25 cents. If I buy this product from vendor A, I can get three of them and the seller earned $2.25. Seller B has a potential profit of $2.75 on each sale of one unit. However, at that inflated price, I won't buy because I feel it's overpriced. Seller B now has a minimum of 25 cents invested in the product (and now likely more because there are carrying costs for non-moving inventory). Because I feel the price is too high, they have lost the $2.75 in potential profit because of their greed. Who is making more money so far? Seller A - they're making a lower margin, yet selling in larger volume, and therefore has higher revenue and profits. A smaller margin is better than NO margin. Bottom line, is that sometimes you have to spend money to make money.

 

Honestly, giving away a few drinks at a true cost of about $5-$10 TOTAL may have a perceived value of $50-$100 to the consumer and may actually encourage more onboard spending and also make the consumer feel as if they are worth SOMETHING other than a dollar figure. They could even raise everyone's fare $20-$50 to more than cover their true costs and likely very few people would notice that difference - they would still be earning more in profits by simply doing something that simple. But no, why accept a lower margin when corporate greed dictates otherwise?

 

It does seem disconnected to us too. That is why we have been posting so frequently on the matter.

[A2Mich]

It does seem disconnected to us too. That is why we have been posting so frequently on the matter.

 

 

I mean the solution would be simple and like I said, could be passed on to the consumer without them even knowing it. But I don't think Carnival would see it in their real dollar costs. They won't see that they could actually get away with raising fares by $50, and give away $10 worth of booze, they would only see the potentially lost revenue of those few shots of liquor. Greed is more important than a small gesture of goodwill.

[MrMileStoner]

Why should Carnival give away any free drinks? As others have pointed out, it conflicts/competes with the revenue producing Cheers program.

 

Someone would be paying for the "free" drinks and if it results in higher fares, that reduces a competitive advantage for Carnival.

 

Can't blame everything on greed.

[eponym]

I mean the solution would be simple and like I said, could be passed on to the consumer without them even knowing it. But I don't think Carnival would see it in their real dollar costs. They won't see that they could actually get away with raising fares by $50, and give away $10 worth of booze, they would only see the potentially lost revenue of those few shots of liquor. Greed is more important than a small gesture of goodwill.

 

Truly, they have a thousand options at their disposal. Here's hoping to more creative and in tune minds next go around! They elected to give out a drink coupon with restrictions. Not what we would have expected in exchange, but it is at least something. Interestingly, their thought must have been that the redemption level of the FREE DRINK coupon might be low over time due to the restrictions set forth and the fact that a good percentage of adult cruisers already deep into Cheers (through the last day/day of cruise) won't use either. In a year they can say low participation, so naturally let's cut it or replace it. That's the cycle.

Edited May 9, 2015 by eponym

[jimbo5544]

Why couldn't they have modeled it after Royal Caribbean/Celebrity? They could offer a handful of free drinks or even a handful of half off drinks, without time and usage restrictions, or as mentioned elsewhere, a token OBC $25 or so, future cruise discounts(even $50-$100), discounted laundry service, maybe a separate "priority" check in (yet not the same as suite/upper tier loyalty) - sort of like a mid grade check in option, discounts at the steakhouse, etc. None of them written in stone, but all simply suggestions. Any of them would have a perceived value for the passenger, yet cost the cruise line very little in real dollars. I agree that they may have needed to do something because the parties were too crowded, but as I've said before, this was 10000% Carnival's fault. If their beancounters didn't do enough research and cost analysis assessments to realize what their real costs would be, they either should not have implemented a loyalty program, or scaled back the perks before they were ever announced. Changing the rules mid-game because they are losing the game says a lot about integrity and morals - specifically that they have none. My feeling is that there is more than one way to make money, yet some people don't agree with that. Most people seem to be of the mindset of spend as little as possible while charging as much as possible. A truly savvy consumer also realizes that greater profits can be made on lower margins at higher volumes. For example, take the same product at two different price points - lets say that you really like this product and Seller A is selling it for $1.00. MInd you, this is a product that you really like and would really like to have. Seller B is offering the same product for $3.00. This product cost both vendors 25 cents. If I buy this product from vendor A, I can get three of them and the seller earned $2.25. Seller B has a potential profit of $2.75 on each sale of one unit. However, at that inflated price, I won't buy because I feel it's overpriced. Seller B now has a minimum of 25 cents invested in the product (and now likely more because there are carrying costs for non-moving inventory). Because I feel the price is too high, they have lost the $2.75 in potential profit because of their greed. Who is making more money so far? Seller A - they're making a lower margin, yet selling in larger volume, and therefore has higher revenue and profits. A smaller margin is better than NO margin. Bottom line, is that sometimes you have to spend money to make money.

 

 

 

Honestly, giving away a few drinks at a true cost of about $5-$10 TOTAL may have a perceived value of $50-$100 to the consumer and may actually encourage more onboard spending and also make the consumer feel as if they are worth SOMETHING other than a dollar figure. They could even raise everyone's fare $20-$50 to more than cover their true costs and likely very few people would notice that difference - they would still be earning more in profits by simply doing something that simple. But no, why accept a lower margin when corporate greed dictates otherwise?

 

 

To be honest the suite lounge (only grand suite and above on only a few ships) and the Dimond lounge (again only for diamond members on some shops) are nice. Would I live Carnival to do these ? Sure. But that would just add to the disruption between levels that people are not happy with here.

[RC Dancers]

We are Carnival Platinum, but pretty envious of our friends who are Princess Elites. They get the priority boarding, free laundry, complimentary mini-bar, free wi-fi time, an elite lounge...

 

But they have never gotten a Tervis Tumbler :rolleyes:

Edited May 9, 2015 by RC Dancers

[Cinders411]

Being a Diamond Plus member on Royal Caribbean, I can tell you that royalty is not completely something of the past in the cruise industry!

 

I have to agree with you here. On our second RC we were shocked to be invited to a past guest party. At first we thought there must be some type of mistake. :eek:

[elliair]

Thank you for the insightful post. Yes reward systems and perks have become very accepted practice in all kinds of industries.

 

Yep, and I take advantage of as many as I can. There's some who squabble over senior discounts. My mother is 91, I think she deserves a discount. :D

[A2Mich]

Why should Carnival give away any free drinks? As others have pointed out, it conflicts/competes with the revenue producing Cheers program.

 

Someone would be paying for the "free" drinks and if it results in higher fares, that reduces a competitive advantage for Carnival.

 

Can't blame everything on greed.

 

 

Free drinks was just an example. They could use nearly anything in its place. As for higher fares, I don't believe that anyone would notice a $30-$50 increase from one cruise to the next. Fares fluctuate all the time. Eliminating a party with some snacks and free drinks because it's "too crowded" is greed.

[Sweet Dutch Girl]

Some of us just want to cruise and receive the exact same treatment as others whether we are traveling for the first or the hundredth time. I don't care what little do-dahs a loyalty passenger gets (I'd probably just trash them or give them away anyway) and don't really care if someone else gets a drink coupon or free laundry (my arms aren't broken), and I really don't care about standing in the longer lines or boarding a little later (being part of the masses can be fun and entertaining).

 

That being said I find it wildly entertaining reading all these threads about what people feel they have "lost" as loyalty programs are changed. In reality nobody has lost anything. Are they paying on a particular cruise to get "perks", absolutely not (unless they purchase a suite, pay for a spa cabin, or something similar).

 

Nobody is taking "anything" away by no longer offering a particular perk. It's like a 15 drink card. If you show up to the coffee shop with your card and they say "sorry, we no longer honor those" how can you fight that. You didn't pay for that "free" drink you paid for the 15 others.

 

Same with cruising...you paid for previous trips not for the perks you may or may not get this time. It's a simple concept...not rocket science.

[bakersdozen12]

Who cares? Honestly. What does it matter what they give out with their loyalty program? If anyone is loyal to a brand just because of the freebies they give out, that's crazy. If I'm going to be a loyal to a brand, it's going to be because the provide me with a quality product. Period. And that product is the product that I am purchasing with my money. Not things that they decide to give me as a bonus that isn't costing me anything. That's just a bonus. So Carnival can do whatever they want with their loyalty program. I'll be focusing on my actual cruises, and enjoy my vacations.

[A2Mich]

Of course they will continually change policies and roll out new incentives to purchase this and that. What I can't stand when I board the ship is the constant bombardment of selling me something. Drinks, pictures, art, a barker in the shop selling trinkets, inch of gold, and sales with left over merchandise from other ships, spa treatments, specialty restaurant reservations, on and on. However, it's up to me to say "no thank you" and move on. As a seasoned cruiser you learn to ignore the sale hype. Newbies are the ones who get caught up in the moment. You see them crying when they get their final S&S bill. Carnival's revenue will never suffer as long as they have bodies occupying the cabins. They'll show their desperation by cheap cabin rates only to hook you with what I mentioned above.

 

 

True. As long as they can continue to reel in the newbies. However if they do upset enough repeat cruisers, it may affect them.

[eponym]

Who cares? Honestly. What does it matter what they give out with their loyalty program? If anyone is loyal to a brand just because of the freebies they give out, that's crazy. If I'm going to be a loyal to a brand, it's going to be because the provide me with a quality product. Period. And that product is the product that I am purchasing with my money. Not things that they decide to give me as a bonus that isn't costing me anything. That's just a bonus. So Carnival can do whatever they want with their loyalty program. I'll be focusing on my actual cruises, and enjoy my vacations.

 

On whatever ship, brand and itineraries of your choosing. That's insightful.

[Sweet Dutch Girl]

True. As long as they can continue to reel in the newbies. However if they do upset enough repeat cruisers, it may affect them.

 

My inlaws were loyalists who sailed twice a month for the pack n go rate in an inside cabin. They spent zero/nada/zippo while on board. They didn't drink, gamble, do ship excursions, buy du-dahs, and I'll bet my life (during the days of envelopes) that they were pretty darn scimpy on tips, too since they were on a military fixed retirement. And considering they traveled with all the other retirees from MacDill I am sure the cruise line didn't make a fortune on any of these platinum/diamond cruisers.

 

I am sure cruise lines love the newbies and their pocket books...I don't think loosing a few tightwads will hurt their feelings.