Northwest, Delta set to file for bankruptcy protection

[BulldogR]

NEW YORK (AFP) - Northwest Airlines and Delta Air Lines, two of the major US carriers, are both preparing to seek bankruptcy protection as soon as Wednesday. :(

[smeyer418]

CNN is reporting the same thing but I expect both airlines to continue flying. remember both US Air and United are in bankruptcy as well(I am sure of United)

[steve20832]

CNN is reporting the same thing but I expect both airlines to continue flying. remember both US Air and United are in bankruptcy as well(I am sure of United)

 

USAir has filed for Chapter 11 twice since 2001. I'm not surprised to see Northworst filing since they always charge more than most airlines plus all thier mechanics are on strike too. Maybe they will sell some gates at MSP so some competition moves in like Southwest or FLYI. They have a monopoly at MSP with 90% of the gates so they jack up the rates. :mad:

[hermang]

USAir has filed for Chapter 11 twice since 2001. I'm not surprised to see Northworst filing since they always charge more than most airlines plus all thier mechanics are on strike too. Maybe they will sell some gates at MSP so some competition moves in like Southwest or FLYI. They have a monopoly at MSP with 90% of the gates so they jack up the rates. :mad:

We just flew back from Alaska on Northworst - expected the WORST as they were on strike. BIG SURPRISE - all three flights were either on time or left with inn 10 min of scheduled departure.

 

We are supposed to fly NW again in November. Flying is so much fun these days even on an allegedly solvent airline

[Flossie]

I sure do hope that Delta keeps flying as that is who the cruise line booked us with!

[TheParrotHeads]

I sure do hope that Delta keeps flying as that is who the cruise line booked us with!

 

 

There is a strong possibility Delta could file Chapter 7, so I hope you enjoyed your last flight on them. I'm confident they will be the first to get the axe in the near future. You should only worry about tickets when a company begins liquidating aircraft, something that DL has begun doing. DL will most likely begin dumping gate space soon.

 

NW will survive this though and Long-term Ch. 11 has become typical. In fact NWA is offering permanent jobs to many of the temps when they make this official. They are doing it for the protection from unions, like all the others have (to), not to mention they get fuel price protection as well under all of this. As far as the mechanics for NW (IMO)---let 'em strike. It just means a better fare for you and less loss for the airline. A lof of airlines outsource their maintenance and have been for years.

 

AA, UA, CO, NW, US Airways will all be fine. In fact, once US Airways merges with America West, they will most likely start to move out of the red. UA will be ok too. There is a great possibility that NW and AA could merge. If this happened MSP and DTW would no longer be necessary hubs, especially with the investments and gate presence UA has in ORD.

 

Gordon Bethune, former CEO of CO, has long wanted CO and UA to merge or come together in some capacity. However, since both fly different metal it makes it a little more difficult (and there are some other factors :D) All of UA's Boeings are primarily, if not all powered by RR (Rolls Royce), while CO's Boeings are all GE. Thus this would be difficult to form a merger because of mechanical reasons. However, since CO already outsources all of their "Big" mechanical problems it may not be far fetched. Either way there will be a lot of changes taking place in the near future. CO has pulled head and shoulders above the rest out of the big 6. However, they will have a big cash flow problem near the end of '06 and into '07 when they must renegotiate union contracts. :rolleyes:

[MszKitty]

Do you suppose thats why, just today, my daughter just got a good fare on Northwest to Germany?

[kenandlaura06]

We booked our honeymoon flights on Song (Delta Brand), so we pray they keep flying!

[TheParrotHeads]

Do you suppose thats why, just today, my daughter just got a good fare on Northwest to Germany?

 

 

Would be very likely since NW's biggest asset is with their international flights. Without their transcontinental routes, especially across the pacific, NW would have sunk long ago. They stay afloat because of their presence in the overseas market.

[dewayneg]

There is a strong possibility Delta could file Chapter 7, so I hope you enjoyed your last flight on them. I'm confident they will be the first to get the axe in the near future. You should only worry about tickets when a company begins liquidating aircraft, something that DL has begun doing. DL will most likely begin dumping gate space soon.

 

NW will survive this though and Long-term Ch. 11 has become typical. In fact NWA is offering permanent jobs to many of the temps when they make this official. They are doing it for the protection from unions, like all the others have (to), not to mention they get fuel price protection as well under all of this. As far as the mechanics for NW (IMO)---let 'em strike. It just means a better fare for you and less loss for the airline. A lof of airlines outsource their maintenance and have been for years.

 

AA, UA, CO, NW, US Airways will all be fine. In fact, once US Airways merges with America West, they will most likely start to move out of the red. UA will be ok too. There is a great possibility that NW and AA could merge. If this happened MSP and DTW would no longer be necessary hubs, especially with the investments and gate presence UA has in ORD.

 

. CO has pulled head and shoulders above the rest out of the big 6. However, they will have a big cash flow problem near the end of '06 and into '07 when they must renegotiate union contracts. :rolleyes:

 

I don't know what's more disturbing, your contempt for unions or your incessant use of abbreviations.

[nosnobunny]

Could you please tell me what Chpt 11 is? Although I have a sinking feeling I already know. :(

Beth

[jimbulger]

I don't know what's more disturbing, your contempt for unions or your incessant use of abbreviations.

 

I can understand some folks contempt for unions my father was a 25 year verteran of the IBEW and workd for honeywell until they folded the division he worked for...when he went bact to the hall and said ok im a 25 year member of this union who now has no job. where am i working monday...he was told thanks for the dues you can keep the tshirt..... its not like he was unskilled and just a member of the union because thats what he job made him do he was a registered electrician who had years of experience over younger guys....whogot sent out of the hall every day because they were cheaper...so tell me exactly what did MY FATHER get out of the union.

 

 

Many unions have done many good things in the past..but they have done more harm than good recently because of the greed of there upper management.

 

 

by the way flaming someone for puntuation/spelling abbreviation or having an opinion is against the rules of this board

[TheParrotHeads]

Could you please tell me what Chpt 11 is? Although I have a sinking feeling I already know. :(

Beth

 

Easy analysis: Long term chapter 11 is something that the US has adopted. Mention this term in a foreign country and they'll assume you are referring to chapter 7. Long-term ch. 11 is nothing more than a packaged plan by airline execs & attorneys, that shows a time line of what they can/must do in order to become profitable and pay creditors. If granted by a judge, the tax laws are laxed for them, unions are weakened, less often must they meet union demands, and they receive slight protection from soaring fuel charges. When granted the protection, these companies are supposed to be using a stretegy that can be implemented sooner to help them emerge from bankruptcy.

 

Chapter 7 is the good bye, so long, farewell, and take care phase. They close shop and no longer operate.

[TheParrotHeads]

I don't know what's more disturbing, your contempt for unions or your incessant use of abbreviations.

 

I simply dislike it when i'm forced to flip a bill that I shouldn't be paying for.

 

Do you know why the mechanics walked out right before NW was almost sure they were going to file? It wasn't because they were looking to help NW at all. In fact the union was fully aware of what they were doing. They did this because they knew there was potentially a better deal to be made from the courts. They are hoping to receive the same pension plan that UA did. Do you know what that plan is? It's called the American Tax Payer Pays For Their Pension. Yes, UA's pension program was taken over by the government or I should the American working class. Well it was a big mistake, because now every union will leave negotiations and wait for filing. AMFA will now shop for a judge who will rule the same way. It won't be long before AMFA will have me and you paying for another airline pension program.

[nosnobunny]

Why wouldn't you be more upset with the government for allowing this to happen? Looking at this from a distance, it appears that the union merely walked through a door that was opened for them. No disrespect meant whatsoever, just trying to understand.

 

Beth

[Finzo's]

I'm booked on Northwest next year for spring break.... so what does that mean for me?????

[DutsCruiser]

I'm booked on Northwest next year for spring break.... so what does that mean for me?????

 

I've the same question... I've booked with Delta for january. My understanding is that during a chapter 11 (if they get it) they can not go bankrupt? Right? So if they become a chapter 11 company I should be fine right?

 

If they go bankrupt I think my insurance will pay the for the 'lost' tickets but I'll probably have to fly with a more expencive airline (DL was actually one of the cheaper airlines to use from the Netherlands to Puerto Rico)

 

I sure hope (for the airline staff) that they will make it... having experienced your employer going bankrupt myself... I know it's not something you want to have to experience.

[smeyer418]

I simply dislike it when i'm forced to flip a bill that I shouldn't be paying for.

 

Do you know why the mechanics walked out right before NW was almost sure they were going to file? It wasn't because they were looking to help NW at all. In fact the union was fully aware of what they were doing. They did this because they knew there was potentially a better deal to be made from the courts. They are hoping to receive the same pension plan that UA did. Do you know what that plan is? It's called the American Tax Payer Pays For Their Pension. Yes, UA's pension program was taken over by the government or I should the American working class. Well it was a big mistake, because now every union will leave negotiations and wait for filing. AMFA will now shop for a judge who will rule the same way. It won't be long before AMFA will have me and you paying for another airline pension program.

Yes the PBGC(pension benefit guarantee corp) took over the pension. The mechanics pension under the PBGC will be about 1/2 of what it was before. The only thing that happens to the company is they are relieved of the funding obigation that they had agreed to already. No Union has EVER gotten a better deal under a bankruptcy. Their entire contract can be wiped out. I am not exactly sure why the Union didn't negotiate except that the leadership was elected on a no give back platform. Sometimes democracy makes compromise impossible.

 

BTW this is not to say Unions have their problems too but most of the benefits you have now were the result of the desire to keep unions out. Note how much employees now have to pay for health care and pension now that Unions are no longer a major factor. Upper management will always get theres(and much more than they should IMO) but Unions do serve a purpose. Just think what slave wages you would be getting with out them....

[AFT_LOVER]

Chapter 11 bankruptcy aka REOGANIZATION

 

Chapter 7 bankruptcy aka LIQUIDATION

 

 

As far as Delta goes, AMEX ownes 1/2 of them, so they are going nowhere with their credit card a great catch & a real moneymaker with interest charges & late fees.

[Virginia Zees]

Just got this off of the Delta website

 

On September 14, 2005, Delta Air Lines, Inc. and our subsidiaries1 took a necessary and responsible step to secure our future by voluntarily filing for reorganization under Chapter 11 of the U.S. Bankruptcy Code. We have taken this action as part of our ongoing efforts to make Delta a simpler, more efficient and cost-effective airline. We will continue normal business operations throughout the reorganization process.

[MLG4MEE]

We were booked on Delta for flights home from LAX to Toledo in Oct. Delta called last month and said the last leg of our flight home was cancelled and could we pick the other flights they had. None of the options they gave us worked. So they said they'd be giving us a credit for our cancelled flights. I'm waiting for our statement here to see if they did.

[Sheffie]

I just received the following in an e-mail:

 

As you may already have heard in media reports, Northwest Airlines® has voluntarily filed for bankruptcy protection under Chapter 11 of the U.S. Bankruptcy Code. The bankruptcy process will enable Northwest to continue its transformation into a new-era carrier in keeping with the permanent changes that have affected the airline industry, such as rising labor costs and a doubling of fuel prices over the past two years.

 

Because we value your business and proven loyalty, I am writing to assure you that there will be no impact on the WorldPerks® program as a result of the filing. Frequent flyer mileage accrual, redemption, and Elite benefits will remain unchanged. Members will continue to earn and redeem miles according to the current WorldPerks program guidelines.

 

The bankruptcy filing will not impact Northwest’s day-to-day business operations. We remain committed to serving customers, honoring tickets, flying a competitive schedule safely and reliably, maintaining our WorldClubs® lounge program, and all other programs and services.

 

All bookings will be honored, and ticketing policies remain unchanged. Our existing marketing relationships with other airlines remain in place.

 

The decision to file for bankruptcy protection is not related to the current strike by members of the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA). Our operation continues to run well and we have experienced no adverse impact on our operational performance as a result of the work stoppage.

 

Customers can continue to book travel on Northwest Airlines with confidence. Although bankruptcy is never a first choice option, it does provide the most prudent means for a restructuring that will ensure the transformation of Northwest into a new-era carrier that is able to compete in the near term and well into the future.

 

Thank you for your continued support of Northwest Airlines. For more information about Northwest’s transformation, please visit nwa.com®.

 

We look forward to continuing to earn your business by providing the outstanding service you deserve.

 

Sincerely,

 

 

Doug Steenland

President and CEO

Northwest Airlines, Inc.

[gillmom2]

Boy it's a wonder we all survive. IMHO unionization has set the standard in this country for living wages. As far as the pensions,What, no blame for the employers that took their profits and did not hold up to their responsibilities. Hmmm... Great idea, I am going to not pay my financial obligations and I will just go bankrupt, oh no excuse me, Chapter 11. What you say no, they closed that loophole, your right they did, now only businesses can go back on their promises not the everyday man and women.

Thanks for the opportunity to voice my opinion...

Have a good day!!!:)

[steve20832]

Why wouldn't you be more upset with the government for allowing this to happen? Looking at this from a distance, it appears that the union merely walked through a door that was opened for them. No disrespect meant whatsoever, just trying to understand.

 

Beth

 

It's not the governments fault. Airlines in the United States are private companies. Each airline business is run by seperately. Just like Coke or Pepsi. Some airlines are making money month after month (Southwest and Jetblue) whiles other are not (Northwest and Delta) My opinion is the government shouldn't get involved because certain airlines have bad business models and can't survive but sometimes the government does give these airlines money to help them. My taxes dollars at waste....Just like Iraq (Bin Laden is in Afganistan-not Iraq) but that's for another forum.

[cruzfiend]

Good discussions.

 

I don't understand how someone could walk away from a job that would pay them $20.00 a hour w/benefits, to no job at all. Do they think they are going to get more than that somewhere else in this day of major cuts?