Does Carnival hire Americans?

[mousey]

The HR Director on the Conquest explained it something along the lines of passengers (for the most part Americans) feel much more comfortable being waited on/catered to by foreigners. That was an interesting angle I hadn't thought of before he said it.

 

I don't care who serves me as long as they are clean, polite, and efficient.:D

 

Also, I cruised on the Pride of America to Hawaii years ago which had an all American staff for the most part. They were some of the best staff I ever sailed with. I didn't notice one lazy or discourteous person among the bunch. Just a lot of nice, young people. It was one of our favorite cruises (and no, not because they were American like me). Like I said, when it comes to service of any kind...clean, polite, and efficient are my main criteria.

 

I do believe that the real reason Americans aren't hired that much on most cruise lines is because of labor laws. If they're not American or another country that has similar labor laws to ours...they don't have to pay overtime for example. And we know how many hours the crew work on most ships.

Edited July 16, 2015 by mousey

[SFplusP]

Supposedly, he was writing a sequel, about moving to art sales (Park West Gallery) on a cruise ship and his relationship with another worker. He also used to post on here.

 

There are 4 books in the Cruise Confidential series. I don't trust JH at all about it, I think it's true (mostly- some things he obviously lied about, or rather, changed details/names etc- but working conditions, I believe after having talked to many crew members while on board).

 

My understanding of it is that they are reluctant to hire Americans because they tend to not stay. It takes a lot of time, money, and effort to train people, and Americans are used to a certain standard of land based work and quit too fast. You see mostly workers who need the money to send home in those positions. More developed countries with better equal rights and better land based work, you typically see them in entertainment (Dancers, cruise directors, etc) or in some cases behind the scenes, like the HR reps for the workers and such.

[perditax]

Eh, you guys are being a bit too hard and a bit too general about Millennials. There are a lot of "millennials" who aren't affluent white spoiled brats. The older end are settling down with careers and family, and the younger ones are having a very hard time finding jobs while simultaneously carrying unprecedented levels of student loan debt due to the astronomical cost of modern education. They may have high expectations, but they're also often cheerful, optimistic and civic minded.

 

Source: Wikipedia, and I work in an office full of them, and date one.

 

Put another way, if what you mean is "spoiled suburban kids" that's one thing, but no reason to assume there's a whole ruined generation out there. Buck up.

 

(And a further disclaimer: I myself am a grouchy generation X-er whose generation was once accused of being shiftless coffee-shop workers who only cared about tattoos and piercings. Then we got into technology.)

Edited July 16, 2015 by perditax

[honestguy]

This isn't a complaint, more of a curiosity. I was looking on Carnival's career site the other day and it seems there is no option for employment on board a ship if you are an American. Americans can be hired for entertainment, casino, or shopping expert, but those are all done through outside agencies. There was no option for Americans for jobs like bar staff, wait staff, steward, etc.. Now that I think about it, the only Americans I have ever seen working on a ship are a couple CDs and one ship captain. Is there something with our labor laws that makes it impossible for them to hire Americans? I know the pay is terrible, but I'm sure there are people who would just like to live on a cruise ship no matter what the pay is.

 

First off the question you have to ask, is why an American would want to work on board, and I'm sure this is the first question asked by any cruise company. You are going to work more hours for far less pay. Than you could make on land.

 

Secondly, most American's aren't conditioned to work that many hours. It's 80 plus for 6 months. Seriously how many people can say they worked 12 hours a day for 180 days straight. Very few.

 

Lastly with the NCLA project ending in failure, that pretty much ruled out any cruise line hiring any US workers. If they couldn't hack it in better working conditions, how would they fare working on international ships. Also any american would feel like an outsider on board, and would have to be the hardest worker, or he or she would get picked on. By coworkers, and managers.

[honestguy]

JH said it was mostly bogus but the book sure sounded true to me.:)

 

Read it a few years ago and took it out of our library last week to reread it.

 

I never read the book, but I read parts of it, and yes it's mostly true. I like JH, but he tries to paint himself as an outsider in carnival, but rest assured everything he posts is being screened by handlers. The last thing Carnival wants the guest knowing, is what goes on below the passenger decks. It's called ship life, and if you haven't lived it, It's hard to explain, and it can be truly shocking to outsiders.

[Elaine5715]

Too many posts to quote, so I'll try and run things down in order posted:

 

Carnival and most cruise lines are reluctant to hire Americans for most jobs other than entertainment, cruise staff, or youth staff, because:

 

1. Very low pay: around $600/month for entry level, for 14 hours/day 7 days a week. Few young Americans work day in, day out, without at least a weekend in there.

2. Shared living quarters: most young Americans have never shared anything more than a dorm room (and not many do that), let alone an 8' x 12' cabin with three other strangers, with only one drawer and one locker for your stuff.

3. Long employment contracts: most young Americans have never been away from home for more than a weekend, let alone the 6-10 months of a cruise ship employment contract.

 

So, few Americans apply, and those that have don't last their first contract, so the lines don't encourage them.

 

Bruns' books should be taken with a large grain of salt. Most of this was before the regulations on drinking were enacted, and I believe they are compilations of multiple crew, and condensing things into a few voyages.

 

Yes, most crew are in quad cabins that are smaller than an NCL inside. The photos they show are usually of doubles or singles, which are reserved for supervisors. My third engineers at NCL rated a single cabin that you could stand in and touch all four walls, and that shared a toilet and shower with the cabin next door.

 

Its not lazy, its that Americans do not have the service industry attitude that goes along with cruise ships. Young Americans' idea of service is "ya want fries wid dat?"

 

Most Canadians will be in the same three areas I mentioned above where you will find Americans.

 

Adrenaline Rush's article deals with the US flag ships that NCL had in Hawaii, and that is a whole different can of worms, believe me, I lived it for 4 years. Those ships do have to meet US labor laws, US tax laws, and USCG documentation requirements.

 

Mary49: Yes, CD's are frequently US citizens, as are their staff.

 

OP, if you are interested, I started a thread called "Pride of America, some realities" back in 2013, that discussed many of the challenges that NCL faced with US crew, on a ship that met US laws. From this, you can imagine the problems they would face with US crew in wait staff or cabin steward positions on international ships.

 

Have I ever mentioned how informative your posts always are and how appreciated? Thankyou.

[fuddrules]

Eh, you guys are being a bit too hard and a bit too general about Millennials. There are a lot of "millennials" who aren't affluent white spoiled brats.

 

Don't sweat it. A lot of those beating up Millennials are still trying to recover from Woodstock.

 

Edited July 16, 2015 by fuddrules

[honestguy]

I read the book and it didn't sound at all like the cruises I've been on. All the women in the crew were depicted as whores and the men as completely drunken buffoons. Of course, I read it on Kindle - maybe it was different in the real book.

 

I worked on a US Flagged ship, and the drinking was out of control. We had people that worked on international ships, and they said we were tame compared to those ships. Both men, and women. were whores. The amount of sex is shocking.

 

My favorite story was showing up for the breakfast shift. It was always fun to see who would be an hour late, after getting off at 12. 2 hours of heavy drinking, and then some extra activities after that. The poor maitre'd would always be trying to round people up. Where's John? Anybody know where he is? Call his cabin. No answer. Who's John's roommate? Mike! Mike Who's John hooking up with? IDK He was hooking up with Jessica. No No Jessica is my roommate they haven't hooked up since last week. Anyone see John at the crew bar last night? This would go on a few times a week.

[perditax]

Don't sweat it. A lot of those beating up Millennials are still trying to recover from Woodstock.

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, you mean the ORIGINAL "me" generation? ;)

 

(Just teasing, folks. The takeaway here is that the wheel never stops turning.)

[ccruisequeen]

Supposedly, he was writing a sequel, about moving to art sales (Park West Gallery) on a cruise ship and his relationship with another worker. He also used to post on here.

 

Yes the third book was released last year. Unsinkable Mister Brown

Book four was High Seas Drifter

 

 

I still cruise for Warm Chocolate Melting Cake (with 2 sugar-free vanilla ice-creams)

Edited July 16, 2015 by ccruisequeen

[Out to sea!]

Eh, you guys are being a bit too hard and a bit too general about Millennials. There are a lot of "millennials" who aren't affluent white spoiled brats. The older end are settling down with careers and family, and the younger ones are having a very hard time finding jobs while simultaneously carrying unprecedented levels of student loan debt due to the astronomical cost of modern education. They may have high expectations, but they're also often cheerful, optimistic and civic minded.

 

Source: Wikipedia, and I work in an office full of them, and date one.

 

Put another way, if what you mean is "spoiled suburban kids" that's one thing, but no reason to assume there's a whole ruined generation out there. Buck up.

 

(And a further disclaimer: I myself am a grouchy generation X-er whose generation was once accused of being shiftless coffee-shop workers who only cared about tattoos and piercings. Then we got into technology.)

 

So there were no blacks, asians, indians, or hispanics born during the millennial period? Or are whites (in your mind) the only affluent ones? :rolleyes:

Edited July 16, 2015 by Out to sea!

[near the beach]

The manager of guest services on the Sensation was an American woman.

[near the beach]

If a cabin steward gets only $2.50 a day of stateroom services gratuities times 24 cabins times 30 days a month.

 

That is much more than they would make in their home country.

[honestguy]

If a cabin steward gets only $2.50 a day of stateroom services gratuities times 24 cabins times 30 days a month.

 

That is much more than they would make in their home country.

 

not in America that comes out to 1800 a month, and that's working 80 hrs a week

[winddawn]

This isn't a complaint, more of a curiosity. I was looking on Carnival's career site the other day and it seems there is no option for employment on board a ship if you are an American. Americans can be hired for entertainment, casino, or shopping expert, but those are all done through outside agencies. There was no option for Americans for jobs like bar staff, wait staff, steward, etc.. Now that I think about it, the only Americans I have ever seen working on a ship are a couple CDs and one ship captain. Is there something with our labor laws that makes it impossible for them to hire Americans? I know the pay is terrible, but I'm sure there are people who would just like to live on a cruise ship no matter what the pay is.

Most Americans would not work for the pay and working conditions present on cruise ships. The pay is very low by American standards, and cruise ship workers do not get days off--they get hours off. Most cruise ships fly under a foreign flag due to more favorable tax treatment and very little regulation. Their entire business model focuses on taking advantage of favorable treatment where they find it, and that includes use of mostly foreign workers.

 

A simple Google search on the subject offers lots of details about this.

[dbsb3233]

not in America that comes out to 1800 a month, and that's working 80 hrs a week

I think he meant the countries they ACTUALLY come from (which for most is not the US). For most it's probably an upgrade compared to what they would be making back home.

 

And they do work something like 80 hours/wk, but it would actually be worse if they didn't. There's very little for a worker to do with leisure time on a cruise ship. They're obviously not allowed to mingle with the customers and use all the facilities that entertain us. They have little more than a tiny shared cabin and a break room to pass their downtime. I think most would say they PREFER just to keep working and making money than have more downtime on ship with almost no way to use it.

 

These concentrated schedules are often used in isolated work venues, like ships, oil platforms, etc. They commonly work most waking hours (because there's nothing else to do there) for a number of months and then go home and have a few weeks/months off. You're basically trading normal nights/weekends off for weeks/months off at the end of the assignment.

Edited July 16, 2015 by dbsb3233

[cantthinkofanythingfun]

Someone brought this topic up to John Heald, but used the angle that service would improve with American workers. That wasn't what I was saying at all with this topic. I've received nothing but excellent service from Carnival or any cruise line. I started the topic just questioning why Carnival doesn't even have an option for Americans to apply.

[linbobky]

If a cabin steward gets only $2.50 a day of stateroom services gratuities times 24 cabins times 30 days a month.

 

That is much more than they would make in their home country.

 

it is $2.50 per person per day!:)

[SeeBurd]

it is $2.50 per person per day!:)

 

It's actually $3.90 per person per day.

[winddawn]

Someone brought this topic up to John Heald, but used the angle that service would improve with American workers. That wasn't what I was saying at all with this topic. I've received nothing but excellent service from Carnival or any cruise line. I started the topic just questioning why Carnival doesn't even have an option for Americans to apply.

That's a very good question. It certainly sends a message they are not interested at all in hiring Americans. They only want Americans as customers who spend their dollars. ;-) According to CLIA, North America is the world's largest cruise market.

[chengkp75]

Someone brought this topic up to John Heald, but used the angle that service would improve with American workers. That wasn't what I was saying at all with this topic. I've received nothing but excellent service from Carnival or any cruise line. I started the topic just questioning why Carnival doesn't even have an option for Americans to apply.

 

He said service would improve with American workers? That is really contradictory to all conventional wisdom in the industry. And he was saying that an improvement in service with American workers was not wanted by Carnival? Virtually everyone in senior management at all the lines were hoping NCL's US flag ships would fail miserably, which they nearly did, because if they didn't, it would dispel the idea that Americans can't provide service.

 

Anyway, those "career pages" on the cruise lines' websites are more window dressing than anything, and typically don't provide anything other than experienced supervisory personnel. Most international crew at the lower levels are provided by crewing agencies in their home country, and the line will have a contract with that agency, so they can't provide labor from sources outside the countries covered by that agency.

[cantthinkofanythingfun]

He said service would improve with American workers? That is really contradictory to all conventional wisdom in the industry. And he was saying that an improvement in service with American workers was not wanted by Carnival? Virtually everyone in senior management at all the lines were hoping NCL's US flag ships would fail miserably, which they nearly did, because if they didn't, it would dispel the idea that Americans can't provide service.

 

Anyway, those "career pages" on the cruise lines' websites are more window dressing than anything, and typically don't provide anything other than experienced supervisory personnel. Most international crew at the lower levels are provided by crewing agencies in their home country, and the line will have a contract with that agency, so they can't provide labor from sources outside the countries covered by that agency.

 

He didn't say that service would improve. Someone mentioned this conversation about Carnival not hiring Americans, and that individual said that service could improve because there would be no language barrier. John Heald threw that opinion out there for discussion on his Facebook page.

[near the beach]

It's actually $3.90 per person per day.

 

The statement was based on their assistant getting a portion of the $3.90.

 

$2.50 per person based on two per cabin.

Times 24 cabins. Sometimes more cabins sometimes less.

Times 30 days.

$3600.00 per month.

[Shipbound]

The statement was based on their assistant getting a portion of the $3.90.

 

$2.50 per person based on two per cabin.

Times 24 cabins. Sometimes more cabins sometimes less.

Times 30 days.

$3600.00 per month.

 

Since all of CCL ships are under foreign flags I believe that 3600.00 month is tax free under U.S laws and if an employee works more than 40 hours per week they do not get time and a half. I would think because cruise ships under foreign flags do not have to obey U.S. labor laws. Most of the cruise lines employee's work 6-9 month contracts. One of the posts said cruise ships employee's do not mingle with the guests which not entirely true because the Officers and the entertainment employee's do mingle with the guests but on limited bases. If they are caught in a guest's cabin they're in big trouble.

 

Gary

[dbsb3233]

... One of the posts said cruise ships employee's do not mingle with the guests which not entirely true because the Officers and the entertainment employee's do mingle with the guests but on limited bases. If they are caught in a guest's cabin they're in big trouble.

 

Gary

I was referring to the vast majority of the employees (hotel staff, restaurant staff, maintenance crews, etc). In their "off" time (the little there is while on the ship), they can't just go sit in the bar for 2 hours, or attend trivia events, or tie up the internet cafe, etc. etc. to pass the time like the customers can.

 

The ones who's job it is to interact with and entertain customers (cruise director, activity staff) are a little different in terms of mingling with customers. And of course the captain, managers, etc are entirely different.

Edited July 16, 2015 by dbsb3233