Serious problem, need advice on whom to contact

[D4]

I'm so sorry that he was injured and that they weren't compassionate and helpful.

 

As far as the trip insurance, policy terms vary. I sometimes buy a policy that covers medical expenses up to a year after you return home, but most policies don't cover that. (I buy a policy with that coverage with when we bring our daughter's boyfriend. They do more adventurous tours and activities than us and I know his regular insurance has a very high deductible.) I realize most people don't read the fine print like I do when they select their policy.

 

I hope Carnival does something for you.

[stev5138]

I believe this area is covered by video. Should be easy for them (or your attorney) to ge access.

[cantthinkofanythingfun]

I posted on here before about my now ex-girlfriend breaking her wrist on the last night of one of our cruises on the Pride. In her case it wasn't Carnival's fault at all. She fell, but all they did was have a nurse call (on the telephone) our stateroom. They wouldn't even let us get off the ship first when we arrived back at Baltimore, where I took her to a hospital. It seems to me that unless something is a life or death emergency, Carnival wants as little involvement as possible. It's almost like they don't want to admit liability in any way, shape, or form. In my case I was very clear that it wasn't their fault.

 

In my case, I emailed them about it after the fact and was told that they don't provide medical care after hours unless it's a life threatening emergency. Maybe all cruise lines are like this. I've never had an incident on another line. Medical care on a ship doesn't invoke great vacation thoughts like a celebrity chef's restaurant or a famous (although incredibly mediocre) comedian's comedy club, but it deserves the same investment, if not more.

[Ken076]

flahagan - What Insurer/policy do you have?

 

The Cruiseline's policy requires initial treatment within 90 days of the accident and covers you for continuing expenses for 1 year after the incident and should cover ALL your medical expenses while aboard ship; most others provide continuing coverage for 6 months to one year, but some do cover ONLY "Emergency" treatment during the cruise, with zero continuing coverage after the cruise. You want to look for this in your Policy.

 

This is something to consider when choosing travel insurance.

 

Ken

Edited August 5, 2015 by Ken076

[wemjam]

Sorry to say, you are probably out of luck with liability through Carnival. I just went and read through my cruise contract for an upcoming cruise and found this in section 12, item (b)

 

12. LIMITATIONS OF CARNIVAL’S LIABILITY

b) In consideration for the fare paid, it is agreed that Carnival shall have no liability as a consequence of guest's use of ship's athletic or recreational equipment or as a consequence of guest's decision to participate in any athletic or recreational activity or event.

 

I am sure the water slide would be considered an athletic or recreational item.

 

It is amazing how much is in the contract if you really read the whole thing... pretty much covers them from liability for everything.

 

Additionally, to play devil's advocate here. It is really your grandsons word against the Carnival operator - I am sure as you stated the attendant "told" him to go... but how can you really prove that. It would be extremely easy to simply say he didn't follow instructions and wait to be told to go.

 

If I were you, I would exert my effort with the insurance company and seek the proper coverage through them. You can document that the injury occurred during the cruise - but you should really read your contract with them carefully as well.

 

Additionally, it would not hurt to approach Carnival - in a different manner perhaps. Requesting a specific compensation of some kind from them for this occurrence may get you somewhere as a show of good faith on their part (not out of necessity). I would not approach it from a demand of them covering the medical costs, etc... but perhaps a partial refund for the missed opportunity of the cruise for your grandson and maybe you as his caregiver?

 

Don't think you have a legal leg to stand on with this one (no pun intended)

 

My humble 2 cents worth.

Edited August 5, 2015 by wemjam

[audcc77]

Sorry to hear about your grandson. That must have been an awful experience and really put a damper on the entire trip.

 

Ugh … as much as I’m against suing people, I’d have to agree with other posters, and I’d contact an attorney.

 

If you do go that route, please note that anything you post here on CC, Facebook, Twitter, etc., including uploading photos/videos, etc., is discoverable by counsel for Carnival.

 

I am also curious as to the name of the insurance company through which you purchased trip insurance.

[SadieN]

Sorry to say, you are probably out of luck with liability through Carnival. I just went and read through my cruise contract for an upcoming cruise and found this in section 12, item (b)

 

12. LIMITATIONS OF CARNIVAL’S LIABILITY

b) In consideration for the fare paid, it is agreed that Carnival shall have no liability as a consequence of guest's use of ship's athletic or recreational equipment or as a consequence of guest's decision to participate in any athletic or recreational activity or event.

 

I am sure the water slide would be considered an athletic or recreational item.

 

It is amazing how much is in the contract if you really read the whole thing... pretty much covers them from liability for everything.

 

Additionally, to play devil's advocate here. It is really your grandsons word against the Carnival operator - I am sure as you stated the attendant "told" him to go... but how can you really prove that. It would be extremely easy to simply say he didn't follow instructions and wait to be told to go.

 

.....................

 

Don't think you have a legal leg to stand on with this one (no pun intended)

 

My humble 2 cents worth.

 

 

Adding onto your thought.

 

They know how long it takes someone to go down the slide. Wonder if the person your GS collided with lingered at the end of the slide? Common sense says to vacate the landing area ASAP.

[skittl1321]

Ugh … as much as I’m against suing people, I’d have to agree with other posters, and I’d contact an attorney.

 

Using an attorney does not mean you have to sue.

 

We've used an attorney to handle a number of matters. I have never filed a lawsuit.

 

Getting a lawyer may be the right decision. But, I think it's important to figure out what you are looking for first. Medical bills? A refund on the trip? Another trip? I think that's important. Otherwise, what's the point of getting a lawyer?

A lawyer can help you determine what you can get.

Possibly they'll consult a lawyer who will say "there's nothing that can be done- Carnival isn't liable". Then another one who says the same thing. After the third one, I'd recognize that it sucks accidents happen, but let it go. Or the lawyer will sign on to recoup medical costs and some pain and suffering.

 

Thankfully, it sounds like this is not going to be a life long injury for her grandson, but a bump in the road.

 

It is amazing how much is in the contract if you really read the whole thing... pretty much covers them from liability for everything.

I had a life threatening accident when I was a kid (broke my neck, was temporarily paralyzed, have permanent spinal cord damage). A waiver had been signed for the activity I participated in when it happened. We learned that it didn't matter at all, and likely I could have been very highly compensated, however, we found out that doing so would result in costs so high the small business where it occurred would be put out of business. We decided to just let it go, as accidents do happen, even if there is 'fault' to them and didn't file suit. But MOST waivers that release all liability for ANYTHING don't hold up.

Edited August 5, 2015 by skittl1321

[cruizinisthebest]

Adding onto your thought.

 

They know how long it takes someone to go down the slide. Wonder if the person your GS collided with lingered at the end of the slide? Common sense says to vacate the landing area ASAP.

 

Maybe. But my daughter got stuck in one a couple of years ago. The water flow wasn't consistent from what my husband said. And she had to push herself a couple of feet to get going again (he went on after her). Surely that threw off the timing. Besides, not everyone gets up and out quickly. If there's nobody at the bottom spotting, then the person at the top needs to be able to see the bottom or something. Just to avoid stuff like this. I'm quite sure the person wasn't just sitting there relaxing.

 

That said, I don't think there's any lawsuit here. It was an accident. It would have been nice had someone checked on them onboard I suppose. I'm surprised that didn't happen.

[Sweet Dutch Girl]

As sad as it is to say the lack of compassionate treatment towards your son would have been equally demonstrated at a water slide in your hometown. Because of our litigious society employees are told that accidents are all about the injury and not about the "mental health" associated with the accident. Anything, and I mean anything, said as a form of we're sorry can and is used against defendants over and over again in liability cases. That doesn't help those of us who "care" and who are helped by a little bit of human kindness during difficult times.

 

I would definitely write Carnival and "explain" the situation to them in precise unemotional analytical terms. Collect as many names, emails, and addresses as you can and CC them all on your letter. And if speaking to someone on the phone record time, date, names, positions, their locations etc. Also be precise what you want from Carnival whether it be compensation, another trip, and/or medical expenses. And only you and your grandson and his parents can make those determinations. Be sure and keep all paper work, xrays, lists of all medications and procedures and be patient.

 

If you do not get the results you would like then you have a choice as to whether you use Carnival's services again or to recommend them to any of your family, friends or acquaintances. Sometimes that is your only recourse.

[moongal]

I would also imagine it would have to do with what is considered standard practice. Is it standard practice to have 2 people manning the slide? A top person and a bottom spotter?? I don't frequent these types of parks but I think they would have a case if it is standard practice to have the 2 spotters and only had 1 on the day of the accident.

[repo-cruiser]

Maybe. But my daughter got stuck in one a couple of years ago. The water flow wasn't consistent from what my husband said. And she had to push herself a couple of feet to get going again (he went on after her). Surely that threw off the timing. Besides, not everyone gets up and out quickly. If there's nobody at the bottom spotting, then the person at the top needs to be able to see the bottom or something. Just to avoid stuff like this. I'm quite sure the person wasn't just sitting there relaxing.

 

That said, I don't think there's any lawsuit here. It was an accident. It would have been nice had someone checked on them onboard I suppose. I'm surprised that didn't happen.

This wasn't an accident. No one goes down the slide until bottom is cleared. There will be a designated person sending down the guest when designated person says it is clear at the bottom. They had no one at the bottom giving the clear signal. This injury should have not happened if Carnival followed their own rules. That is not an accident.

[cruizinisthebest]

This wasn't an accident. No one goes down the slide until bottom is cleared. There will be a designated person sending down the guest when designated person says it is clear at the bottom. They had no one at the bottom giving the clear signal. This injury should have not happened if Carnival followed their own rules. That is not an accident.

 

I read the narrative from the OP and it was an accident in the sense that the person didn't purposely sit at the bottom to be in the way for the next person. I said that the employee up at the top should have been able to see at the bottom. I have never seen any Carnival personnel at the bottom of the slide to make sure people are getting off. What rules have you seen that state specifically this is the practice? From every ship I've been on, it's the person at the top making sure the bottom is cleared and that people don't have on flip flops or anything that would get in the way of the slide path.

[nessz79]

We have had less-than-sympathetic responses from Carnival staff as well. On the Carnival Imagination a few years ago, the elevator stopped at the correct floor but was a few inches off of level from the ground. My mother-in-law stepped off without looking, lost her balance, and fell. Luckily, she was not injured more than a little sore the next day and her pride. However, an employee was very close by and when we told them what happened, they just asked if she was ok and went on with their day- no attempt to follow up. We decided not to pursue it, but in hindsight, certainly should have at least to ensure that nothing else happened with that elevator.

[rwdtgb]

Never have a I seen any associate at the bottom of the slides. I see it as an unfortunate accident.

[D4]

As sad as it is to say the lack of compassionate treatment towards your son would have been equally demonstrated at a water slide in your hometown. Because of our litigious society employees are told that accidents are all about the injury and not about the "mental health" associated with the accident. Anything, and I mean anything, said as a form of we're sorry can and is used against defendants over and over again in liability cases. That doesn't help those of us who "care" and who are helped by a little bit of human kindness during difficult times. ...

 

However, an injury like this wouldn't be anywhere near as stressful in their hometown. If you're in your hometown, you can go to your local hospital and then recuperate at home.

 

I can't imagine the stress these grandparents were under. They brought their 3 grandkids (without the parents) on a cruise out of the country and this happens on their first full day! They had to use the ship's medical facilities. They found out it may need surgery at home. They tried to have phone conversations with the trip insurance company and the parents, but they couldn't even hear. No doubt this threw a wrench in all their fun plans for the cruise which is a very expensive trip. And they'd probably all been looking forward to the cruise for a long time.

[simong]

negligence is not voided by those contracts, you should get a lawyer to represent you

[angiegal]

As sad as it is to say the lack of compassionate treatment towards your son would have been equally demonstrated at a water slide in your hometown. Because of our litigious society employees are told that accidents are all about the injury and not about the "mental health" associated with the accident. Anything, and I mean anything, said as a form of we're sorry can and is used against defendants over and over again in liability cases. That doesn't help those of us who "care" and who are helped by a little bit of human kindness during difficult times.

 

I would definitely write Carnival and "explain" the situation to them in precise unemotional analytical terms. Collect as many names, emails, and addresses as you can and CC them all on your letter. And if speaking to someone on the phone record time, date, names, positions, their locations etc. Also be precise what you want from Carnival whether it be compensation, another trip, and/or medical expenses. And only you and your grandson and his parents can make those determinations. Be sure and keep all paper work, xrays, lists of all medications and procedures and be patient.

 

If you do not get the results you would like then you have a choice as to whether you use Carnival's services again or to recommend them to any of your family, friends or acquaintances. Sometimes that is your only recourse.

 

 

I was just going to say the same thing about lack of compassion. It does suck! But, I was a nurse at a summer camp and one of my responsibilities was to communicate with parents and our insurance company in the event of an accident. I had an 8 hour class on what I could/could not say. Something as simple as "let me see what we can do to help you" was not allowed because it could be misconstrued. We had parent threaten to sue us over, among other things, a splinter and a homesick child. I had to testify in court one time (from that summer) and it was a teenage staff member who was injured when the diving board broke. He was 50 pounds over the weight limited posted on the board. Don't know what that has to do with this situation..... I ramble sometimes. I do agree that they could have done something to help you, even if it was to let you off the ship first but it seems since the vacation guarantee is being pushed so much now, guest services is of the "if you don't like it leave" mentality which isn't right at all!!

[moongal]

On our trip on the Magic, there was a spotter on the bottom with a walkie talkie looking device. There was a person up at the top of the slide with a walkie talkie device. I assumed they were communicating with each other because as soon as the person exited the slide at the bottom he would indicate into the walkie talkie that it was clear.

[MYMOTHERSCHILD]

Hy husband and I recently took 3 of our teen grandkids on the Breeze and on the very first AM of the 8-day cruise, one of our grandsons fractured his ankle."

 

 

Cruise lines will stall and compensate as little as possible, if at all. Even bad publicity runs its course. We sail at our own risk because there's no such thing as the good ship, "Integrity."

[MsTabbyKats]

From what I'm reading....get a lawyer.

 

It wasn't an accident....it was due to Carnival's negligence.

 

In addition....it messed up your GS's summer...besides ruining his trip. And he may have to hobble back to school. This is called "pain & suffering".

 

I hope you have witnesses (the man at the bottom?) and the name of the employee at the top.

[LitchfieldParkCruisers]

Sorry to hear of the young man's injury....a fractured ankle stinks, whether on vacation or in your own backyard.

Carnival's onboard reaction is probably pretty standard for how most corporations would handle a potential liability situation. Document it, report it and don't say anything else about it, for fear that anything the business does or says could be used against them later as an admission of fault or responsibility. I think that's just the corporate world these days.

Sounds like you need to seek professional advice, but I think you already know that. Calling Carnival to complain that you didn't like how they handled things, will likely get you nowhere.

hope that ankle heals quickly.

 

LPC

[jmcancruise]

I guess I was very fortunate because when I broke my arm on a ship a couple of years ago I received excellent care on ship and and follow-up after. We made it clear we were in no way blaming the ship for my accident. We had no intention of sueing.

 

I am sorry this happened to your grandson and I hope he is feeling better soon. While I am still not in favour of sueing, I do feel that in this case carnival should step up to the plate and cover all expenses incurred and provide the family with a free cruise.

[Sweet Dutch Girl]

From what I'm reading....get a lawyer.

 

It wasn't an accident....it was due to Carnival's negligence.

 

In addition....it messed up your GS's summer...besides ruining his trip. And he may have to hobble back to school. This is called "pain & suffering".

 

I hope you have witnesses (the man at the bottom?) and the name of the employee at the top.

 

So with what you've written being said what do you propose would be the outcome needed to make this right? That's the rub. Does the grandmother sue for damages, medical costs, pain and suffering, future earnings, a lifetime of free cruises. And how much more is added to cover the thousands of dollars needed to pay an Attorney, fly back and forth to Miami where the suit would have to be filed, future medical costs etc. etc.

 

Seemingly preventable accidents like these are the worst because the scope becomes boundless. If the family has insurance that should be the first recourse, whether trip insurance or their normal insurance and these insurance carriers should then sue Carnival, not the Grandmother. If no insurance than the family needs to prove the negligence and that the operator knowingly sent her grandson down the slide fully understanding that the conditions were totally unsafe.

 

All of this becomes a very emotional time consuming roller coaster ride with a young boy caught in the middle (I'd hate to make my grandson testify or even give a deposition). Sometimes it is just best to chalk it up as an unfortunate (and probably pretty painful experience) and just one of those things that may happen when a child is active. Regardless, the vacation cannot be redone, the injury can't be undone.

 

Posts like the one I quoted is probably the reason why we don't all get treated better when incidences like this happen. Our society wants a scapegoat, someone to blame instead of just realizing the whole thing was a lot of unfortunate circumstances piling one on top of another. It would be wonderful if Carnival comped them all another cruise and made sure that any uncovered medical expenses were taken care of....that would be fair.

[Hoosierpop]

My first course of action: be specific with Carnival in terms of what you would want. Explain what your out of pocket medical costs are and anything else you would want. If Carnival doesn't meet your needs, then I'd discuss it with a lawyer to see what your chances are to recover money.

 

I think it's premature to say this was negligence. Seems to me, to prove negligence, you'll need witnesses to what happened. Maybe you could find those. Maybe not. But I would try to resolve this directly with Carnival before getting a lawyer involved.