Why You Really Don't Need To Worry About Carnival Ruining Princess

[CruiseFever]

This just keeps coming up so let's put this to rest.

After 8 Carnival cruises I came to Princess last month for our first cruise on the Golden.

Great Ship, Great Crew, Awesome Vacation, booked two more on return.

I don't claim to be an expert on Carnival but I know my way around over there and I need to tell you that the last thing in the world that Carnival wants is for you to be like them.

The Carnival "Fun" product is unique, as unique as Princess, or Seabourn, or Holland America or any other product that falls under the Carnival Corporation umbrella.

When Carnival wants more Carnival ships they will build them. How many do they need to build to convince you of that?

Relax!

Yes, there are economies of scale that reap rewards for all the affiliated lines. I noticed that Princess carried the same brand of skim milk that Carnival had and assumed that they probably got a real deal on it by combining the purchasing power of all the lines. I noticed that there have been several shifts of equipment (ships) between lines and new builds that might not have been possible before are happening now.

How worried do you need to be that passengers of questionable morals or background immigrate from Carnival to Princess?

Well that's quite an issue and quite a question isn't it? That's the one that lingers between the lines here. Old School Princess would like to believe that they are (and lets get right down to it) better people than Carnival people.

As a new Princess passenger I can feel that. As a veteran Carnival passenger that's saddening.

The two cruise experiences are different, people are different, and in this world that grows smaller every day I can only hope, no pray, that the diversity represented on the Carnival brand could be reflected in as many places as I could find.

Does that mean you (we now) should put up with the drunken teens, crass adults and poor manners that defy the traditional cruise experience that you enjoy.

Of course not! I didn't tolerate that on Carnival and I won't here.

Princess passengers are entitled to protect and preseve exactly what they want their cruise experience to be. You define it.

Better yet, Carnival Corporation encourages you to define it.

Before our Golden cruise last month I wrote my email pal, Bob Dickinson, President of Carnival and told him I would be sailing on the Golden. He replied to me that he had sailed the Golden last November, thought it was a wonderful ship, "unique experience" and would be curious as to my comparison of the two lines.

A direct comparison was difficult, like apples and oranges. And I truly believe that's the way Carnival wants it. As each Carnival ship has a unique theme and flavor of its own which has resulted in unparalleled success, continuing the uniqueness of each product line will be the key to unparalleled success for their future too.

I really wouldn't worry about this.

If there are holes in this argument please point them out because I just don't see this as a viable concern

Happy Cruising

Chris

[url="http://www.LifeIsCruising.com"]www.LifeIsCruising.com[/url]

Next up:
Caribbean Princess 06/26/04
Star Princess 10/24/04
Carnival Victory 12/19/04
Carnival Miracle 03/13/05

[jsea]

As I like to say, Carnival didn't ruin Princess, but rather Princess was well on its way to ruining Princess before Carnival came.

KIDDING [img]http://messages.cruisecritic.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

In all seriousness, many of the changes that have come to Princess in recent years were initiated pre-Carnival.

Although, I can't help but think that post-Carnival is when "Princess" put RCI squarely in its crosshairs.

Should be interesting to see how Princess evolves in the coming years...

[TinaLee]

Good points Chris! I've often sat here and fumed at folks taking shots at how "horrible" Princess was going to become now that the folks at Carnival were "taking over". My thoughts are... give them a chance and see what happens! Carnival understands brand loyalty. They haven't futzed around too much with the other lines they have purchased, why panic about Princess?

We've cruised both lines (and NCL and RCCL). I have to admit that the Carnival shorter trips to the Bahamas (Fantasy) were not my cup of tea. Also didn't care too much for the Sensation's decor, but LOVED the itinerary. Sailing up the Mississippi to New Orleans was fantastic. If ALL of my Carnival experience was based on those shorter trips I would not be a fan of Carnival AT ALL! However, we absolutely loved our trip on the Pride last year. She's close to home (we're in Orlando and she's at Port Canaveral), a beautiful ship, good food, a great casino, wonderful staff. It was a GREAT trip.

However, I'm a dyed in the wool fan of Princess. When trying to decide which cruise to book this fall our decision came down to Caribbean Princess or Carnival Glory. We had lots of pros and cons from each side... my husband wishes with all his heart that Princess would berth a ship at Canaveral for us! Would you like to know what the deciding factor was? Fresh water pools! LOL! How silly is that? But when everything was weighed, including costs, itineraries, cruise experiences, proximity of port, cruising on a "new" ship, decor (okay Princess won on that one - Glory looks kinda scary to me), etc, the fresh water pools swung us back over to Princess... even if I have to drive to FLL to get them.

I've met people I adored getting to know on both lines... and people I would have loved to throw overboard. It takes all kinds - and heaven knows they all LOVE to sail. If you LOVE LOVE LOVE Princess, then stay with them. If they change too much for you, try another line. Weigh all the things that are important to YOU when you sail and make your decision. Try a pie-chart... LOL!

Me, I'll keep sailing... Princess this fall - maybe Mariner of the Seas from my backyard next year - maybe a 10-day on my favorite Sea Princess - maybe the Panama Canal... that's a decision for later.

TinaLee

Sail Away on Caribbean Princess
[img]http://escati.linkopp.net/cgi-bin/countdown.cgi?trgb=000000&srgb=00ff00&prgb=0000ff&cdt=2004;10;02;17;00;00&timezone=GMT-0500[/img]

[DUBIDUB2]

Of course your points are all valid.

You asked to be pointed to the holes in the thread however so here goes!

The reality is - Profit.

If the shareholders and/or the board members don't like the returns they will insist on changes - and often changes the customer doesn't like.

The truth is, the world we live in is people demanding growth in their 401k's and other investment and retirement funds.

The shareholders voted for the merger (take-over) on the basis they will make more money.

Lets hope Princess continues to make good profits so that no other changes need to be made. (But i hope they don't charge me too much for my trip - LOL ).

[starsjohn]

Hi Chris, Nice commentary with a lot of validity. I would change the phrase that people are "better" on Princess to read people are "different".

John

[katisdale]

I also LOVE Princess and hold shares in Carnival Corp. although I've never taken a cruise on a carnival ship. I am unsure why the lines are criticized for making a profit. I want my money to be spent on a cruise that sails, not one that goes bankrupt! I feel that Carnival is a good company because it returns value to the investor.

[sue d. miller]

I don't believe Carnival has anything to do with any of it. I think it is the competition with Rc that is doing it. But it is the difference in what different cruiselines offer that keeps people cruising. If they all become the same, it will be pretty boring.

Sue
7 days on Star Princess 10/24

[CruiseFever]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I would change the phrase that people are "better" on Princess to read people are "different".
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Excellent point

Happy Cruising

Chris

[url="http://www.LifeIsCruising.com"]www.LifeIsCruising.com[/url]

Next up:
Caribbean Princess 06/26/04
Star Princess 10/24/04
Carnival Victory 12/19/04
Carnival Miracle 03/13/05

[Guest]

Thanks for the thought-provoking post, Chris...
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Before our Golden cruise last month I wrote my email pal, Bob Dickinson, President of Carnival and told him I would be sailing on the Golden. He replied to me that he had sailed the Golden last November, thought it was a wonderful ship, "unique experience" and would be curious as to my comparison of the two lines. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> OK - you probably shouldn't have said that because now I'm never going to leave you alone!! So what did Mr. Dickinson say about your comparison? I thought the write up comparing Carnival and Princess that you did was excellent. As for defining a cruise line - you can probably guess my preferences...could you let Bob know? [img]http://messages.cruisecritic.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]

I think one thing we all have to remember is that Carnival Cruise Line does not own Princess. Princess is part of Carnival Corporation and the corporation has been presenting many different types of cruise experiences for years.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> In all seriousness, many of the changes that have come to Princess in recent years were initiated pre-Carnival. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Absolutely...and I think a lot of the old Princess details have been pushed aside - at the disappointment of the Princess passenger - because of economic issues. This is one reason why, after initially thinking it a bad decision, I came to favor the merge with Carnival. Princess was going to continue to deteriorate without some capital and I just didn't think RCI had the administrative foundation to benefit a merge. Carnival Corporation was pretty darn stable.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> The reality is - Profit.

If the shareholders and/or the board members don't like the returns they will insist on changes - and often changes the customer doesn't like.

The truth is, the world we live in is people demanding growth in their 401k's and other investment and retirement funds.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Have to agree with this...and I think it prevalent throughout corporate America. I work for a large corporation and the employees have been treated worse - and been outsourced - all for the sake of the stockholder return. No attention to quality, employee relations, etc. Just the bottom line.

Thanks again, Chris, for the great post...

-------------------------
Sun Princess, 03/2004; Pacific Princess, 07/2003; Star Princess, 05/2003; Grand Princess, 10/2002; Grand Princess, 10/2002; Sun Princess, 05/2001; Sun Princess, 04/2001; Sun Princess, 09/2000; Sun Princess, 09/2000; Regal Princess, 10/1999; Sun Princess, 08/1998; Holiday, 05/1998; Westerdam, 09/1997; Regal Princess, 11/1996; Royal Odyssey, 09/1995; Starward, 11/1993

[Ethel5]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I work for a large corporation and the employees have been treated worse - and been outsourced - all for the sake of the stockholder return. No attention to quality, employee relations, etc. Just the bottom line <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

bdjam-I hope we are not working for the same large corporation, because over the past few years I have seen and complained about the same situations. So, when cruisers complain about the poor service since they added automatic tipping, I have to think that it is because the servers have 18-20 guests to feed instead of the previous 12-14. Now the cabin stewards have 18 cabins to clean instead of the previous 12. The almighty bottom line will be the death of us yet!

Donna
[img]http://escati.linkopp.net/cgi-bin/countdown.cgi?trgb=000000&prgb=32CD32&cdt=2004;10;23;17;00;00&timezone=GMT-0500[/img] <img border="0"

[Jacqueline]

Another point- Carnival bought a BRAND called Princess. The whole point in buying an established brand isnt to diminish or dilute what is attractive about that brand to its constituents.

If they(Carnival management) wanted to *carnivalize* the ships they could simply rename them with some small design changes, much the way that Princess and P&O have been doing for so many years.

Carnival has owned HAL for some time now and I have yet to hear of a wet t shirt contest on the Rotterdam (now that would be a sight given the demographics). And they arent having any giant splash contests on the seabourne line (also owned by Carnival).

It would be counterintiuive that Carnival bought Princess to ruin it or drive it down in any way. In fact Carnival made huge financial investments in Cunard, another line aquired within past years. It still has its character retained.

Jacqueline
Constellation 3/20/04
HAL Westerdam 7/30/04
Tahitian Princess August 2003
Grand Princess Western Caribbean 2003
Brilliance of the Seas Baltic 2002
Ocean Princess- Alaska 2001
Celebrity Zenith- Bermuda 2001
Grand Princess Med 2000

[CruiseFever]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> So what did Mr. Dickinson say about your comparison? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well so far I got back that he was looking forward to reading it and had forwarded a copy to his counterpart at Princess. So the jury is still out?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I work for a large corporation and the employees have been treated worse - and been outsourced - all for the sake of the stockholder return. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wish I had a buck for every time I'd heard that one. People are naturally resistant to change and I can deal with that. But the constant battering the work force, on all levels, takes is a scary animal that at some point will come back to bite us.

The cruise industry is a growth industry as we've not seen since the .com explosion but a great example of how an industry will need to or be forced to reinvent itself to exist.

After we've taken all we can from workers, outsourced everything we can, and tightened the fiscal belt untill we can't anymore..."all for the sake of stockholder return", then what?

More Enrons?

What kind of a world is that?

Its no more than common sense that business' must turn a profit to survive and a greater profit to grow. I don't think that's the problem.

I think that just raises some critical questions.

IMHO what concerns us here in cruise world is what will the end product result be? If the answer is for all the players to gravitate toward the center with no high end and no low end then what do we have?

While I think that's a common concern among the loyalists to every cruise line for things to stay the same I don't think that's really what we want at all. When she sank, the Titanic was THE state of the art ship at sea. She would be pale by comparison to any new ship sailing today.

We're ok with some change, as long as it's good change. Not hitting iceberg= good

Happy Cruising

Chris

[url="http://www.LifeIsCruising.com"]www.LifeIsCruising.com[/url]

Next up:
Caribbean Princess 06/26/04
Star Princess 10/24/04
Carnival Victory 12/19/04
Carnival Miracle 03/13/05

[Italy52]

Chris, now that you have tried Princess, have you decided to become a Princess loyalist? Just curious. We have done Sitmar, RCCL, NCL, Premier, Renaissance, HAL, and recently Princess. All in all, we have cruised 16 times. Have always found something good about every cruise. Although, I must admit, Princess has an edge to some of the other lines. How will you exercise your future cruising options? With so many ships and itineraries out there, the decision to cruise is becoming harder to decide upon--you almost have to do a KT analysis. [img]http://messages.cruisecritic.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif[/img]

[Guest]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Carnival has owned HAL for some time now and I have yet to hear of a wet t shirt contest on the Rotterdam (now that would be a sight given the demographics). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> [img]http://messages.cruisecritic.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> While I think that's a common concern among the loyalists to every cruise line for things to stay the same I don't think that's really what we want at all. When she sank, the Titanic was THE state of the art ship at sea. She would be pale by comparison to any new ship sailing today.

We're ok with some change, as long as it's good change. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I think change for the better is good, and in Princess' case, the Carnival capital should help bring it about. But there have been changes at Princess - as Jsea states, before the Carnival merge - which diminshed the quality of the product. While doing that, it probably helped the bottom line because there wasn't as much effort put into the details. Which probably made the stockholders happy.

I think - really - that a cruise line that puts out a finely detailed product would be able to charge a little higher per diem and still get its share of the market. I think there are enough savvy passengers out there to know the difference between premium and mainstream. It just takes some creative management to get that kind of a product - and unfortunately, the quality of management suffers from the attention to the bottom line as well.

-------------------------
Sun Princess, 03/2004; Pacific Princess, 07/2003; Star Princess, 05/2003; Grand Princess, 10/2002; Grand Princess, 10/2002; Sun Princess, 05/2001; Sun Princess, 04/2001; Sun Princess, 09/2000; Sun Princess, 09/2000; Regal Princess, 10/1999; Sun Princess, 08/1998; Holiday, 05/1998; Westerdam, 09/1997; Regal Princess, 11/1996; Royal Odyssey, 09/1995; Starward, 11/1993

[JanetMarie]

Chris - thank you for a well written post.

IMO, people do not like change. Just the word, "change" sparks something in them. But once we change and adapt to a new situation or new ownership, we can usually sit back and say that it wasn't so bad afterall. [img]http://messages.cruisecritic.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

[img]http://escati.linkopp.net/cgi-bin/countdown.cgi?trgb=000000&srgb=00ff00&prgb=FFA000&cdt=2005;04;02;17;00;00&timezone=GMT-0500[/img]
OUR NEXT ONWARD JOURNEY!

[cruiserforlife]

I for one hope Princess doesn't change it's product because of Carnival ownership,only improves it.

Each cruiseline has it's own niche and we've always felt at home aboard Princess,a fact that was hammered home when we strayed and recently cruised RCL.

Being Elite members,we will certainly cruise Princess on our next vacation to take advantage of those benefits.

"a bad day at sea is better than a great day at work and a lousy day at sea is still pretty damn good!"

[CruiseFever]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Chris, now that you have tried Princess, have you decided to become a Princess loyalist? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I'm getting there fast.

I don't know if this is going to make any sense but I am one of those people that has taken the phrase "your cruise is what you make it" to heart.

I know the Carnival system and I've been able to fabricate our cruises to meet our specifications. It takes a little work...
<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>Booking an aft cabin with a balcony is required for a quiet cruise
<LI>Slipping some cash to the room steward and Maitre d' up front to assure good service
<LI>Getting to the port at 9:30 for speedy embarkation
<LI>Booking a post-cruise excursion to get off the ship at a decent time
<LI>Staying off deck or out of public areas during times that stuff is going on that we find unsavory
<LI>Making contacts within the company to get the service bumped up a knotch
[/list]

I get that same cruise on Princess and I don't have to work for it. I pay more, but I don't have to work for it. I don't mind working for it and will in the future but Princess, to me, the organizer, planner and facilitator of our vacations, is easy.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I think change for the better is good, and in Princess' case, the Carnival capital should help bring it about. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Let's all cling to that thought; I think it's right on the mark

Happy Cruising

Chris

[url="http://www.LifeIsCruising.com"]www.LifeIsCruising.com[/url]

Next up:
Caribbean Princess 06/26/04
Star Princess 10/24/04
Carnival Victory 12/19/04
Carnival Miracle 03/13/05

[starsjohn]

Chris, a very nice disertation that I find very correct and appealing. You have to have the mindset for the line you are to travel with. Its so good that each line has significant differences so we can shop for the characteristics we desire. While I see broad changes in services, I still have such a positive experience that I go back for more. The only time I draw the line is if criminal activity is involved. I come from a long line of law enforcement types, so I am a little senitive about those things. When compared to cruises some 30 years ago, the experience gets better and better with time, at least for Princess and Celebrity.

John